NFL ratings down 7.5 percent for the season

is that there do seem to be fewer commercial breaks this year after kickoffs.

one critical element - Americans are far too apathetic to give up something like football over that in large numbers.

Don't believe me, take a look at voter turnout and get back to me.

and watching TV require the same level of apathy?

And it is possible the demographics that aren't watching do turn out to vote and do turn off their TV's on Sundays.

I know you feel people will rush to the anthem protests, and sometimes occam's razor is occam's razor for a reason.

Has nobody to blame but themselves.

1.) Officials affect the outcome of the game far too often.
2.) Nobody knows what a catch is anymore.
3.) Too many commercials.
4.) Oversaturation of the product (TNF, SNF, MNF, London games etc.)
5.) Players offending it's customers by kneeling for our National Anthem.

There response to all of this?

A statement basically saying they're now Social Justice Warriors.

Stick to football!

bad record.

it gives no details as to how the numbers were obtained and simply provides percentages.. and says things like total viewership? Does this include Red Zone or Fantasy channel? Half the people I know watch their own team and then watch Redzone or other channels.. they are so much better (no Ads and only show games/situation that are exciting)

How about people who stream the games? I streamed this Sunday nights game from Canada.. Nielsen is also horrible at estimating total number of people that view something as Football more and more is being watched at bars and with friends..

but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.

In comment 13654992 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

and watching TV require the same level of apathy? And it is possible the demographics that aren't watching do turn out to vote and do turn off their TV's on Sundays. I know you feel people will rush to the anthem protests, and sometimes occam's razor is occam's razor for a reason.

Occam's razor in this case would imply people are just watching less TV. With all the cord cutting going on, there's bound to be an impact to the ratings (let alone to the NFL, where they keep introducing new channels like streaming via Twitter or Amazon that they might not track as effectively).

The NFL would be lucky to have all of their viewership issues tied into that political mess. It's much worse than that - concerns over CTE, people being reluctant to pay money for sports packages or cable, people losing interest in the game, etc. There have been people pointing out for years that the moves that the NFL was making would eventually cost them - it's possible we're starting to see some of that come to light.

And yes, it is because of anthem "protests". Nobody ever bought a ticket to hear LT's views on social issues.

to a complicated problem. That's just how they are.

In comment 13655008 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13654992 pjcas18 said: Quote: and watching TV require the same level of apathy? And it is possible the demographics that aren't watching do turn out to vote and do turn off their TV's on Sundays. I know you feel people will rush to the anthem protests, and sometimes occam's razor is occam's razor for a reason. Occam's razor in this case would imply people are just watching less TV. With all the cord cutting going on, there's bound to be an impact to the ratings (let alone to the NFL, where they keep introducing new channels like streaming via Twitter or Amazon that they might not track as effectively). The NFL would be lucky to have all of their viewership issues tied into that political mess. It's much worse than that - concerns over CTE, people being reluctant to pay money for sports packages or cable, people losing interest in the game, etc. There have been people pointing out for years that the moves that the NFL was making would eventually cost them - it's possible we're starting to see some of that come to light.

People are watching less football (if you believe the poll to be accurate and for the record I've seen similar polls that factor in streaming and viewership is down similarly from last year even with streaming).

To say people are watching less TV in general wouldn't be the simplest explanation, it would require an assumption that hasn't been provided.

CTE could be one legit reason, but I have heard very few people who said they'd boycott the NFL because of CTE. I've heard people say they wouldn't let their kids play but I don't believe the impact of those who wouldn't watch explains a ratings drop.

While on the other hand, many people said they'd boycott because of the protests.

The simplest reason that requires the fewest assumptions is most often the correct reason.

the most important number

. Through Week 6, in-game commercial inventory in the NFL broadcast windows has generated an estimated $1.24 billion in revenue, up 14 percent from the equivalent period last year. (It's worth noting that, to the networks' delight, a ratings dip coupled with flat or increased demand leads to an increase in the price of buying time in any TV program.)

and i know one person who said they dont have any appetite to watch because of the political nature of it. but they are they only person i know who has admitted to that.

many other factors - people can watch and rewatch games after the fact without commercials. are the legal streamers being taken into consideration? illegal streamers?

how are the cable subscription numbers doing? DirecTV?

I dont think one reason ever adequately explains everything, but it is a very overexposed product already and there are far too many reasons to not watch on trackable channels these days instead of living your life.

Just take a look at what cable providers are reporting and forecasting as far as their financials go and you'll know it all as fact.

People might not be watching less TV, but they're sure as hell paying less for it, and as that 18-49 demographic that these ratings are focused on continues to lose less tech savvy members on the older end and get new viewers who were born with a computer in one hand on the other, that's only likely to get much worse for them.

But it is A factor.

Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage.

In comment 13655028 jcn56 said:

Quote:

Just take a look at what cable providers are reporting and forecasting as far as their financials go and you'll know it all as fact. People might not be watching less TV, but they're sure as hell paying less for it, and as that 18-49 demographic that these ratings are focused on continues to lose less tech savvy members on the older end and get new viewers who were born with a computer in one hand on the other, that's only likely to get much worse for them.

Many polls take streaming into account and viewership is still down.

In comment 13655026 giantfan2000 said:

Quote:

the most important number . Through Week 6, in-game commercial inventory in the NFL broadcast windows has generated an estimated $1.24 billion in revenue, up 14 percent from the equivalent period last year. (It's worth noting that, to the networks' delight, a ratings dip coupled with flat or increased demand leads to an increase in the price of buying time in any TV program.)

yep thats the number that matters because at the end of the day.. ESPN analyst reading from a free service provided by Nielsen doesn't have all the relevant facts.. The advertisers and the cable companies on the other hand know whats happening.. and at the end of the day they all agree that advertising during NFL games is worth more today than it was yesterday.. Now the credit suisse analyst probably has a much more detailed analysis but I am not sure its for public viewing...

Hint: it's not good.

a thing of the past. Neither of my 20s daughters have a TV or care. They watch netflix on their laptops. They dont know or care about players taking a knee.

In comment 13655037 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

But it is A factor. Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage.

My father was an usher at Yale Bowl (not as a full time job but just for the Giants games as a way to get to see the games) when the Giants played there and my father tells me we are not witnessing anything remotely close to the worst football he's ever seen (of course you and I didn't see that era), but just as a reference, the 70's by and large was worse than now in many regards.

I only say this because when we were talking last week I said the same thing you did and he said "not even close"

In comment 13655043 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655028 jcn56 said: Quote: Just take a look at what cable providers are reporting and forecasting as far as their financials go and you'll know it all as fact. People might not be watching less TV, but they're sure as hell paying less for it, and as that 18-49 demographic that these ratings are focused on continues to lose less tech savvy members on the older end and get new viewers who were born with a computer in one hand on the other, that's only likely to get much worse for them. Many polls take streaming into account and viewership is still down.

You do realize a lot of cord cutters view games in ways that aren't captured in that number? OTA, illegal streaming.

I don't doubt that someone who watched a bunch of mid-70s Giants games would remember that time as the worst football he'd ever seen, but there was a lot of great football being played then. It just wasn't in the Yale Bowl.

There's very little great football being played today.

The a very large majority of the people butthurt about the protesting are those that aren't affected by what the protest is all about. Yeah there may be a very few minorities who don't like it either... but I'd bet that's an extreme minority. Also, it's not just the protest that's causing some viewers to not watch anymore but also the Kaepernick situation as well. So you have two different sides protesting one organization because of different reasons that are related to each other. You have those that aren't watching the NFL because of the protests... and those that aren't watching because of Kaep not being signed over the likes of the Brandon Weeden's of the world. The thing is, I don't think the NFL owners are really sweating it as much as those that aren't watching want to believe. I think they're more concerned about the CTE crisis and how that will affect their sport.

I tend to think it's not as big a factor as some may think or want to believe, but I can't say for sure. Short of polling every single person who used to watch the NF and no longer does, I don't know how you'd ever measure such a thing with any sense of accuracy.

I think the much more likely reason is a combination of many different things. Some of them out of the NFL's control and some of them directly because of the NFL and the sport itself.

line, they could just no longer show it on TV. They still show it, so either TV networks are very stupid, or its really not the issue.

In comment 13655053 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655043 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13655028 jcn56 said: Quote: Just take a look at what cable providers are reporting and forecasting as far as their financials go and you'll know it all as fact. People might not be watching less TV, but they're sure as hell paying less for it, and as that 18-49 demographic that these ratings are focused on continues to lose less tech savvy members on the older end and get new viewers who were born with a computer in one hand on the other, that's only likely to get much worse for them. Many polls take streaming into account and viewership is still down. You do realize a lot of cord cutters view games in ways that aren't captured in that number? OTA, illegal streaming.

Of course, I just think dismissing the anthem protests completely as a factor is probably wrong.

I believe it is a factor and more than many people may realize. the vice president of the country walked out of a game after the national anthem. It's a big deal to a bigger percentage of the NFL viewing population than some people want to admit.

And I make no comment on the protests, simply the ratings.

In comment 13654995 EddieNYG said:

Quote:

Has nobody to blame but themselves. 1.) Officials affect the outcome of the game far too often. 2.) Nobody knows what a catch is anymore. 3.) Too many commercials. 4.) Oversaturation of the product (TNF, SNF, MNF, London games etc.) 5.) Players offending it's customers by kneeling for our National Anthem. There response to all of this? A statement basically saying they're now Social Justice Warriors. Stick to football!

You forgot the part about their media cohorts shoving this crap down our throats when all we want is refuge to watch a sporting event. Even the players need to get in on it and their union accepting funds from Soro's organizations. Tuning out more lately, college football is more entertaining anyway as they put out effort instead of collecting a paycheck for half ass effort most of the time

has improved analytic capabilities these days so when they suggest numbers are down because of something they are likely dead on.

In comment 13655066 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655053 jcn56 said: Quote: In comment 13655043 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 13655028 jcn56 said: Quote: Just take a look at what cable providers are reporting and forecasting as far as their financials go and you'll know it all as fact. People might not be watching less TV, but they're sure as hell paying less for it, and as that 18-49 demographic that these ratings are focused on continues to lose less tech savvy members on the older end and get new viewers who were born with a computer in one hand on the other, that's only likely to get much worse for them. Many polls take streaming into account and viewership is still down. You do realize a lot of cord cutters view games in ways that aren't captured in that number? OTA, illegal streaming. Of course, I just think dismissing the anthem protests completely as a factor is probably wrong. I believe it is a factor and more than many people may realize. the vice president of the country walked out of a game after the national anthem. It's a big deal to a bigger percentage of the NFL viewing population than some people want to admit. And I make no comment on the protests, simply the ratings.

First off, it's already been proven that his 'walk out' was a staged event. He's the LAST person I'd use as any indication of anything regarding what most of Americans feel about the protests. His boss has had a hard on for the NFL since they denied him the right to become an owner (Rozell told him to his face that he'd NEVER become an NFL owner) and this was another staged event in order to start getting folks who go to the games to start walking out as well. Doesn't appear to be working though...

Secondly, I don't think the NFL really much cares about those that are upset about anyone protesting anything when it comes to their product. They're not making any sweeping changes so... as someone said above... it's pretty apparent to me that they're not the least bit concerned about losing too many 'loyal' customers.

It's only temporary. Those who have called for boycott or player punishment for the anthem kneeling have a short attention span and will move on to other issues before the end of the season.

In comment 13655005 JonC said:

Quote:

but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.

The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs."

Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.)

And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad."

It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies.

It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse.

In comment 13655005 JonC said:

Quote:

but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.

I believe players are. With the Eagles, the owner and Malcom Jenkins (one of the very first to kneel) are doing this in the community.

But I guess, since many people don't know that, you could say the kneeling part at least gets the conversation started so to speak - and even people to join the cause.

In comment 13655079 T-Bone said:

Quote:

.. it's pretty apparent to me that they're not the least bit concerned about losing too many 'loyal' customers.

Not sure I agree with that. If a media provider can detect when you changed channels when a protest started and never came back I find your comment ridiculous that they do not care about that. Netflix detects frame by frame scenes to create new content for their audience? Why do you think media now attempts to not show the kneels and cuts away...its called damage control and limiting an audience that may flee, as "they don't get paid either"....Those commercials are then a sunk cost. Its the money man. Its not the cause.

In comment 13654978 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

Quote: Last year, it was easy to blame the decline on election coverage.

Can someone explain why it was easy to blame the decline on the election?

I never understood this. WTF did the election have to do with NFL ratings?

Maybe there was one debate that occurred the same time as one game, but that can't explain the overall decline.

Are they trying to say people were watching CNN or Fox News coverage of the election on Sunday afternoons instead of football? Who the hell did that?!

just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread.

if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings.

reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful.

In comment 13655081 TJ said:

Quote:

It's only temporary. Those who have called for boycott or player punishment for the anthem kneeling have a short attention span and will move on to other issues before the end of the season.

I also agree with this. My lil brother... who was not watching because of the Kaep situation... lasted a month. Then suddenly had a change of heart.

In comment 13655026 giantfan2000 said:

Quote:

the most important number . Through Week 6, in-game commercial inventory in the NFL broadcast windows has generated an estimated $1.24 billion in revenue, up 14 percent from the equivalent period last year. (It's worth noting that, to the networks' delight, a ratings dip coupled with flat or increased demand leads to an increase in the price of buying time in any TV program.)

Follow the money.............good post.

has been a 3% drop in cable subscribers so there is about half of the drop. there is also a significant increase in cord neverers (i.e. millenials who have the means but will not sign up for traditional cable and instead rely on over the top video/Netflix etc)

MLB prime time ratings were down in 2017 by 6% compared to last year.

In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

In comment 13655005 JonC said: Quote: but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job. The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs." Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.) And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad." It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies. It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse.

Great post!

Look no further than the Jamele Hill suspension from ESPN.

I don’t claim to know more than others about this, but I have spent a lot of time over the past year in places like Ohio, Missouri, and rural PA, more than most people I know from the east and west coast

I can share that for a lot of the people I’ve talked to about the NFL from those parts (maybe 20-25 or so, so consider the small sample size), kneeling for the anthem is a significant factor in their decisions to watch less NFL football. The overriding opinion I’ve heard is screw these spoiled athletes and the league that caters to them, we’re just going to watch our college football.

Not saying I agree with their opinions, personally I think it’s a shame a lot of people haven’t spent more time listening to what those protesting are actually saying, but this is the reality for a lot of people.

Things like lower quality of play, games with a zillion penalties, etc are a part of the equation too, for sure.

My take, which is just one mans opinion, FWIW...a lot of people in this country continue to underestimate or ignore how strong the opinions are of different parts of the country...call them middle America, the flyover states, whatever you want. Mock them, call them stupid, racist, whatever you want...but just bc a lot of us think and feel differently, doesn’t mean their opinions don’t have an effect.

Kinda similar to how last November turned out, but that’s for another time and place

politics! just ask eric!

In comment 13655092 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread. if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings. reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful.

The next question is, how long do they stay away? As some have posted above...probably not long.

And the NFL knows it.

Ever since the protest in which Villanueva was the only one to come out of the tunnel and observe the anthem she is done with football.

My stepfather said not only is he not watching, he doesn't even want it on in his house at all.

Yes this is anecdotal, but there are a lot of people that aren't watching any longer due to this issue. They are far from the only two.

In comment 13655088 mdc1 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655079 T-Bone said: Quote: .. it's pretty apparent to me that they're not the least bit concerned about losing too many 'loyal' customers. Not sure I agree with that. If a media provider can detect when you changed channels when a protest started and never came back I find your comment ridiculous that they do not care about that. Netflix detects frame by frame scenes to create new content for their audience? Why do you think media now attempts to not show the kneels and cuts away...its called damage control and limiting an audience that may flee, as "they don't get paid either"....Those commercials are then a sunk cost. Its the money man. Its not the cause.

Not sure what you're looking at but I'm still seeing them showing players that are kneeling, sitting or raising a fist during the anthem.

None of the younger folks who work for me have a tv package. They have netflix, hulu, prime and basically don't watch live tv.

I myself ditched the tv packages for internet only from Comcast but I've been using streaming packages. I keep those mainly for sports (trying Fubo now).

Cord cutting has to be a factor.

There probably is no single factor so arguing about which one is the biggest is probably all of us fighting for our biases.

but my father in law isn't watching NFL anymore because of the anthem protests. I'm pretty sure he's not alone.

In comment 13655037 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

But it is A factor. Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage.

B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was his name!

In comment 13655109 allstarjim said:

Quote:

Ever since the protest in which Villanueva was the only one to come out of the tunnel and observe the anthem she is done with football. My stepfather said not only is he not watching, he doesn't even want it on in his house at all. Yes this is anecdotal, but there are a lot of people that aren't watching any longer due to this issue. They are far from the only two.

AllStar - I respect your families beliefs on that - will be interesting to see how long it maintains, especially if the Steelers have a successful season...........

Winning cures all they say? LOL

In comment 13655092 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread. if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings. reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful.

If you don't know what the 'difference' is then there's no point in trying to explain it. I'll move on from that.

I'm not searching for any other reasons... I"m just dismissing the idea that the number of people not watching is enough for the owners to really care about who's watching and who isn't. It's ok if you don't want to believe that... my little brother didn't believe it either when I told him the same thing for HIS reason for protesting.

Sure there's an 'impact'. Our argument is how great that impact is and whether it's big enough to worry the owners. I'm thinking not.

In comment 13655108 BillKo said:

Quote:

In comment 13655092 pjcas18 said: Quote: just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread. if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings. reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful. The next question is, how long do they stay away? As some have posted above...probably not long. And the NFL knows it.

Absolutely, but then ratings should increase (if the Anthem protests were an impact as I believe).

If you see an NFL ratings increase it probably invalidates the streaming, cord cutting, bar watching excuses unless those outlets get controlled somehow.

is in markets like NY (the largest market), you cannot even watch the games that you want to watch. Giants fans are forced to watch the Jets and vice versa. Although I watch the redzone now, before I had that channel I would just turn off the TV if I was forced to watch a game that I have no interest in. Often times there would be an interesting division game (Eagles vs Cowboys) and I WOULD stick to the TV to watch that.

IMO, the NFL should consider having some kind of package on series of channels so you can watch any game that you want. The TV deals are actually restricting access.

If viewership continues to decline or stays down for an extended period, sponsors and networks are going to want to pay less to the NFL. If they pay less to the NFL, it means the salary cap won't grow, and players will not be able to score as big a paydays. Hey, but let them continue to use their place of employment as sounding board for their political actions.

In comment 13655120 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

In comment 13655037 Greg from LI said: Quote: But it is A factor. Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage. B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was his name!

And the reason their garbage? Pull out your schedule and circle the games you'd really watch. Then put a line thru the garbage games...........

The NFL is setup to succeed....via gambling (and of course now fantasy), and it being played once a week to entice you back in every weekend (sans TNF which is a complete failure IMO).

In comment 13655124 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655092 pjcas18 said: Quote: just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread. if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings. reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful. If you don't know what the 'difference' is then there's no point in trying to explain it. I'll move on from that. I'm not searching for any other reasons... I"m just dismissing the idea that the number of people not watching is enough for the owners to really care about who's watching and who isn't. It's ok if you don't want to believe that... my little brother didn't believe it either when I told him the same thing for HIS reason for protesting. Sure there's an 'impact'. Our argument is how great that impact is and whether it's big enough to worry the owners. I'm thinking not.

So why do you think the owners are having urgent summits and meetings about the Anthem protests?

It's hard to get NFL owners motivated, look how long CTE has been around before it got any attention. If the owners didn't care they wouldn't be so easily mobilized on the issue, IMO.

In comment 13655096 BillKo said:

Quote:

In comment 13655026 giantfan2000 said: Quote: the most important number . Through Week 6, in-game commercial inventory in the NFL broadcast windows has generated an estimated $1.24 billion in revenue, up 14 percent from the equivalent period last year. (It's worth noting that, to the networks' delight, a ratings dip coupled with flat or increased demand leads to an increase in the price of buying time in any TV program.) Follow the money.............good post.

Missed this post and it's pretty much saying what I've been saying... I think those that are protesting (on both sides) are greatly overrating what their actual impact will be on the league.

In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

In comment 13655005 JonC said: Quote: but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job. The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs." Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.) And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad." It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies. It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse.

For me it comes down to leave politics out of football. I couldn't care less about the politics whether I agree or not.

In comment 13655107 japanhead said:

Quote:

politics! just ask eric!

You sound awfully butthurt.

In comment 13655133 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655124 T-Bone said: Quote: In comment 13655092 pjcas18 said: Quote: just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread. if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings. reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful. If you don't know what the 'difference' is then there's no point in trying to explain it. I'll move on from that. I'm not searching for any other reasons... I"m just dismissing the idea that the number of people not watching is enough for the owners to really care about who's watching and who isn't. It's ok if you don't want to believe that... my little brother didn't believe it either when I told him the same thing for HIS reason for protesting. Sure there's an 'impact'. Our argument is how great that impact is and whether it's big enough to worry the owners. I'm thinking not. So why do you think the owners are having urgent summits and meetings about the Anthem protests? It's hard to get NFL owners motivated, look how long CTE has been around before it got any attention. If the owners didn't care they wouldn't be so easily mobilized on the issue, IMO.

They were having that meeting anyway... all they've said is that it will be one of the first and main topics they talk about... I don't believe that means that they're panicking over the thought of how many people may leave... because they know they'll be back... they ALWAYS come back.

I said before that I think the CTE issue is more of a priority to get resolved because it actually impacts what's on the field (less youth playing football) than the protests.

Veterans day NFL boycott has....

but I do believe it's a bigger piece than some want to admit. The majority is rules, diminished level of play, and all the awful humans still allowed to play and make millions. It's a sum of all of that but politics is in there.

I hope this trend continues for another 5 years.

are prioritizing the anthem kneeling because of an inflammatory speech on September 23rd that took this from a marginal issue to an all out inferno.

or whatever the fuck the definition of "politics" is these days has nothing to do with it for me. The rules have made it really hard to withstand a game for 3 hours without thinking the league is gonna somehow fuck it up, and it has on multiple occasions. Every other sports league in the world doesn't have this problem. For some reason, the NFL decided at one point to take the game out of the players hands and make it more robot and ref related. It was a bad move and they won't recover from it unless they change it.

In comment 13655156 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

but I do believe it's a bigger piece than some want to admit. The majority is rules, diminished level of play, and all the awful humans still allowed to play and make millions. It's a sum of all of that but politics is in there.

and how do you explain the 6% drop in MLB ratings.

NFL still blows away all other sports.

In comment 13655138 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: In comment 13655005 JonC said: Quote: but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job. The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs." Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.) And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad." It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies. It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse. For me it comes down to leave politics out of football. I couldn't care less about the politics whether I agree or not.

That's the thing about all this... the politics were never put INTO football. The players kneeling during the anthem has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the game itself. NOTHING. AT. ALL. It's the people saying 'Leave politics out of football!' that are actually the ones bringing politics into it. It's not like Kaep was running for a 30 yard score... stopped short of the goal-line and took a knee against police brutality. It's not like Kaep yelled 'Black Live Matter!' into the camera after completing a pass.

You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.

the product on the field sucks.

I would say going back to the mid to late 2000s, you'd almost never believe that the rules or refs could in fact ruin a game. Are there bad calls? OK sure. But the rules itself were pretty much fine. A catch was a catch and a touchdown was a touchdown. Now? There's 5 instances in every game that could flip the outcome. It's a joke.

In comment 13655169 Les in TO said:

Quote:

are prioritizing the anthem kneeling because of an inflammatory speech on September 23rd that took this from a marginal issue to an all out inferno.

HA! That too!

I was just telling my neighbor this past weekend how the ire and anger over the protests seemed to be dying down a bit until a certain person needed to fan those flames again (again, because he was told that's a club he's not able to buy himself into).

but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today.

nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings.

I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings.

If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.

You'll not find a long time football fan that isn't dismayed with the horrible state of officiating. The NFL has been "lawyer upped" - everything is an argument and an interpretation of the rules. The ASJ play with the Jets is a great point; anyone who ever played a single down of tackle football knows that was a touchdown. You can argue possession and pylons and all that other happy horse shit till the cows come home. That was a touchdown - plain and simple. But today with all the replay even the most educated NFL fans don't know if a touchdown is going to hold up. Replay takes a LOT of fun out of watching the game and it doesn't seem to improve the accuracy of outcomes.

There's elegance and simplicity in the violence of pro-football; the bigger hitter, the faster runner, the man that wants it more and is willing to suffer more pain is the one who usually wins.

Until, wait a 'secin, its the Head of Officials calling in from New York City and he says according to section 287 of rule number 619 as interpreted by the super slow mo replay we've been watching for 5 minutes indicates a failure to maintain possession through reestablishing going to the ground while performing the football act of hitting the pylon. Fuck that.

It doesn't bother me, it's the noise it generates after their actions that eats up bandwidth (tho I watch less and less as time goes by).

In comment 13655186 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today. nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings. I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings. If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.

I didn't say that it's impacting the ratings. I said that the owners are much more concerned about that than any reports of diminished ratings and the reasons why.

And again, I too believe that politics has had an impact. Where we disagree is how much of an impact it's had and how much the owners care about it.

Of course we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion too much to not agree to disagree.

In comment 13655188 trueblueinpw said:

Quote:

You'll not find a long time football fan that isn't dismayed with the horrible state of officiating. The NFL has been "lawyer upped" - everything is an argument and an interpretation of the rules. The ASJ play with the Jets is a great point; anyone who ever played a single down of tackle football knows that was a touchdown. You can argue possession and pylons and all that other happy horse shit till the cows come home. That was a touchdown - plain and simple. But today with all the replay even the most educated NFL fans don't know if a touchdown is going to hold up. Replay takes a LOT of fun out of watching the game and it doesn't seem to improve the accuracy of outcomes. There's elegance and simplicity in the violence of pro-football; the bigger hitter, the faster runner, the man that wants it more and is willing to suffer more pain is the one who usually wins. Until, wait a 'secin, its the Head of Officials calling in from New York City and he says according to section 287 of rule number 619 as interpreted by the super slow mo replay we've been watching for 5 minutes indicates a failure to maintain possession through reestablishing going to the ground while performing the football act of hitting the pylon. Fuck that.

+1

In comment 13655050 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655037 Greg from LI said: Quote: But it is A factor. Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage. My father was an usher at Yale Bowl (not as a full time job but just for the Giants games as a way to get to see the games) when the Giants played there and my father tells me we are not witnessing anything remotely close to the worst football he's ever seen (of course you and I didn't see that era), but just as a reference, the 70's by and large was worse than now in many regards. I only say this because when we were talking last week I said the same thing you did and he said "not even close"

I had season tickets for the 1973 Giants Yale Bowl season. Your dad was right they were horrible, but ask him if he didn't mean NY Giant football and not the NFL game itself.

In comment 13655191 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655186 pjcas18 said: Quote: but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today. nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings. I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings. If you disagree, we can agree to disagree. I didn't say that it's impacting the ratings. I said that the owners are much more concerned about that than any reports of diminished ratings and the reasons why. And again, I too believe that politics has had an impact. Where we disagree is how much of an impact it's had and how much the owners care about it. Of course we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion too much to not agree to disagree.

Likewise.

I think the owners are now terrified of CTE and rightfully so. Sad it took this long.

And I think the owners to their credit have really tried to connect with the players on the Anthem protest issue. If you read anything from Arthur Blank or Jed York on the meetings last week it's really interesting to see ownership and the players this willing to work together.

I just don't think fans are that willing, sadly. But like others have said, many will have short attention spans.

I know one person in my entire universe who still avoids baseball because of the 1994 strike.

Anyone else pissed off got over it.

It's 25% politics + 25% cord cutting + 25% the product on the field + 25% CTE.

In comment 13655189 JonC said:

Quote:

It doesn't bother me, it's the noise it generates after their actions that eats up bandwidth (tho I watch less and less as time goes by).

I hear ya.

And that's another thing... I think as folks get older they tend not to place so much importance on the games. I remember my dad telling me once he was ok with missing a game in order to go play golf. I was both stunned and appalled by the mere suggestion that ANYTHING, especially golf of all things, could be more important than seeing every single snap of a Giants game. That was over 15 years ago. 15 years later, I find myself not rushing home as fast after church (or leaving service all together) in order to make it home in time for me to only have missed the 1st quarter (my church is about 45 minutes to an hour away from home). And though I, of course, sympathize with the reason for Kaep's protest... I also from the very beginning didn't agree with his method for the EXACT same reason why he's going through what he's going through now and that's because people are not going to sympathize with the REASON for the protest because all they'll want to do is bitch about disrespecting the flag.

The NFL and it's players getting what they deserve.

In comment 13655179 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

the product on the field sucks.

What’s your solution Britt? Should the sport be banned? Ex players are sueing the NFL due to concussions/CTE. What is the NFL supposed to do?

In comment 13655210 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655191 T-Bone said: Quote: In comment 13655186 pjcas18 said: Quote: but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today. nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings. I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings. If you disagree, we can agree to disagree. I didn't say that it's impacting the ratings. I said that the owners are much more concerned about that than any reports of diminished ratings and the reasons why. And again, I too believe that politics has had an impact. Where we disagree is how much of an impact it's had and how much the owners care about it. Of course we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion too much to not agree to disagree. Likewise. I think the owners are now terrified of CTE and rightfully so. Sad it took this long. And I think the owners to their credit have really tried to connect with the players on the Anthem protest issue. If you read anything from Arthur Blank or Jed York on the meetings last week it's really interesting to see ownership and the players this willing to work together. I just don't think fans are that willing, sadly. But like others have said, many will have short attention spans. I know one person in my entire universe who still avoids baseball because of the 1994 strike. Anyone else pissed off got over it.

I think so too... but I don't think it's really fair to them to have to get involved. That's part of the reason why I was never one of those who said they were going to protest because Kaep wasn't signed... they've been, IMO, unfairly pulled into a fight that really had nothing to do with them. As I asked a friend of mine who suggested I join their protest against the league for Kaep, if/once he gets signed... exactly what has that done for the purpose of his protest in the first place? What's really changed? Particularly since he said he's no longer kneel himself now.

Pretty hilarious *how* it happened, though.

In comment 13655223 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655189 JonC said: Quote: It doesn't bother me, it's the noise it generates after their actions that eats up bandwidth (tho I watch less and less as time goes by). I hear ya. And that's another thing... I think as folks get older they tend not to place so much importance on the games. I remember my dad telling me once he was ok with missing a game in order to go play golf. I was both stunned and appalled by the mere suggestion that ANYTHING, especially golf of all things, could be more important than seeing every single snap of a Giants game. That was over 15 years ago. 15 years later, I find myself not rushing home as fast after church (or leaving service all together) in order to make it home in time for me to only have missed the 1st quarter (my church is about 45 minutes to an hour away from home). And though I, of course, sympathize with the reason for Kaep's protest... I also from the very beginning didn't agree with his method for the EXACT same reason why he's going through what he's going through now and that's because people are not going to sympathize with the REASON for the protest because all they'll want to do is bitch about disrespecting the flag.

i find between career/house projects/young kids/aging parents/exercising, I don't have 3.5 hours to sit on my butt and watch a game end to end 16 weeks per year. at least not without incurring some serious stink eye from my better half!

The Giants are bad, the Jets were expected to be bad. Therefore ratings in the NY market are likely a lot lower than normal.

Oakland is underachieving, SF is atrocious. Therefore the only two long-established franchises in CA have lower than normal ratings.

Chicago is pretty bad too (another big market struggling).

else to do anymore. And I definitely don't plan my Sunday around the Giants anymore. What for? What if you do and they "flex" it? You go from Sunday at 1 to Sunday at 8:30? Or vice versa? The NFL has gone out of it's way to alienate it's core fan base in oder to get more non football fans to watch. It's gone from sport to event programming. Well, I have other events that I can get involved in.

In comment 13655178 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655138 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: In comment 13655005 JonC said: You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.

Interesting, so what you are saying is that the people who are offended in a way that you can't relate to should protest in a way that you specify and find more acceptable (a temporary change in channel) because the way they are choosing to currently show their displeasure (not watching) doesn't make sense to you. As someone once said...ah, the irony!

So where were these protests when Obama was in office. What did the previous administration do during their 8 years to make changes other than support protests of BLM.

In comment 13655186 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today. nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings. I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings. If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.

+1

.discussing how friends and family are abstaining because of the anthem bullshit. Before that it was the fact the rules go against what 50 guys in a bar all agree is a completed pass, and the total pussification of physical defense.

In comment 13655281 joe48 said:

Quote:

So where were these protests when Obama was in office. What did the previous administration do during their 8 years to make changes other than support protests of BLM.

I mean, Kap started kneeling last season, so.....

In comment 13655173 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 13655156 UConn4523 said: Quote: but I do believe it's a bigger piece than some want to admit. The majority is rules, diminished level of play, and all the awful humans still allowed to play and make millions. It's a sum of all of that but politics is in there. and how do you explain the 6% drop in MLB ratings.

*** crickets ***

by both ends of the political spectrum. Far right and far left both not watching out of protest.

Right here on BBI. I probably said people were nuts too. Wrong again.

NFL has definitely taken a hit the last couple of years. We should be glad. Lower ratings means better fan experiences all around.

for quite some time now.

Have they picked up some least common denominator types? Maybe so. But I believe the hardcore NFL fan has had enough.

PSLs
Commercials
Rules changes
Stadium prices
Stadium behavior (old men being assaulted for asking someone to sit down to see the game)
London
Relocation
Penalties
CTE and the NFLs genuine lack of concern about it
Player conduct
Legislation of player conduct both on and off the field
Game broadcast/presentation

Look at that list of bullshit. Now you're going to add politics to the game? Many people are saying no thanks!

In comment 13655279 SeanLandeta said:

Quote:

In comment 13655178 T-Bone said: Quote: In comment 13655138 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: In comment 13655005 JonC said: You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch. Interesting, so what you are saying is that the people who are offended in a way that you can't relate to should protest in a way that you specify and find more acceptable (a temporary change in channel) because the way they are choosing to currently show their displeasure (not watching) doesn't make sense to you. As someone once said...ah, the irony!

LOL! Yeah... that's a pretty big stretch ya go going there...

Quote:

...so what you are saying is that the people who are offended in a way that you can't relate to...

Where did I ever say I couldn't relate? I understand why people are upset with the method of Kaep's protest. I even said that I disagreed with his method (but not it's purpose... which most seem to want to ignore) a few posts ago... you must've missed it during your stretching excersise.

Quote:

...should protest in a way that you specify and find more acceptable (a temporary change in channel)

Still stretching. I'm not saying that it's something they SHOULD or MUST do (unlike those who opppose a person's right to silently and non-violently protest injustices they see happening in this country).. I'm only offering another option where they can still be satisfied by not seeing something that bothers them that much (the protests) and still enjoy the ACTUAL reason why they're watching the program in the first game (ya know... the game?). I'm not saying they MUST do this... only offering an option for them. Feel free to offer options that players can silently and non-violently protest the national anthem if you like (like the green beret did after a discussion with Kaep suggesting he kneel instead of sit... which Kaep, out of respect for the military, agreed to do)... I won't hold it against you.

And lastly...

Quote:

because the way they are choosing to currently show their displeasure (not watching) doesn't make sense to you

No... it doesn't make sense to me. But this is America... it doesn't have to... everyone is free to do what they want... well... unless it's silently and non-violently protest the treatment of minorities by law enforcement in the country evidently. Again, I don't know what people are expecting the NFL to do about players protesting because it's their right to do so. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state that it's not. If it bothers some so much that they're willing to throw away the enjoyment of not watching their favorite NFL teams play, that's completley up to them. I really could care less. But that's like saying you're going to stop using Dove soap because an employee of the company (not the owner or a high level exec mind you... just a regular run-of-the-mill factory worker) is a white supremacist. Would you stop using Dove if you found out that Billy Bob in the warehouse was a white supremacist? I'm thinking no but maybe you would. Keep in mind as well, this same argument applies to those who've felt that I need to 'Stand with Kaep' and not watch the NFL as well.

Ya dig?

In comment 13654985 jcn56 said:

Quote:

one critical element - Americans are far too apathetic to give up something like football over that in large numbers. Don't believe me, take a look at voter turnout and get back to me.

My neighbor, nyg fan, about 65 years old said he stopped watching not because the Giants struggled but because of the anthem stuff. He didn't even watch week 2. It's a factor. Other people have told me the same thing.

In comment 13655005 JonC said:

Quote:

but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.

This is the only correct take on this subject in my view. I don't want to hear who has the right to do what. This is a case of employees of a national and public company using their profession as a soap box. It's wrong.

In comment 13655354 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13654985 jcn56 said: Quote: one critical element - Americans are far too apathetic to give up something like football over that in large numbers. Don't believe me, take a look at voter turnout and get back to me. My neighbor, nyg fan, about 65 years old said he stopped watching not because the Giants struggled but because of the anthem stuff. He didn't even watch week 2. It's a factor. Other people have told me the same thing.

Semantics, but he's not a factor in this case - these demographics cut off at 49 years old.

on their employers time. Those who pay the piper call the tune. If an employer doesn't want political activism in the workplace then either play by the rules or find a new job.

Again, I don't care and other than the pig socks by Kap I don't think anyone has been distasteful. But when anyone works for a business, they play by the rules of that business or they find a new job.

In comment 13655102 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: In comment 13655005 JonC said: Quote: but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job. The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs." Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.) And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad." It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies. It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse. Great post! Look no further than the Jamele Hill suspension from ESPN.

That is a good point. I wonder how Joe blow would react if a guy like Kap kept his viewpoints "offline" or off the gridiron. If he went down to city hall and carried a sign would he face the same amount of backlash? You wonder...

In comment 13655360 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13655005 JonC said: Quote: but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job. This is the only correct take on this subject in my view. I don't want to hear who has the right to do what. This is a case of employees of a national and public company using their profession as a soap box. It's wrong.

And exactly HOW are they supposed to do it 'away' from their job (which begs the question, what is their 'job'? To play football, which they still do, or is it to stand for the anthem? Which is not necessary for them to do their 'job')? As someone said earlier... if a bunch of NFL players started a peaceful protest in a park in Washington DC where as part of the protest they had the anthem playing and they all kneeled during it... you really think that most of the folks who are boycotting the league because of the protests would say 'Oh... well since it's not on tv before the game... it's cool.'?

I'm going to go with 'no' on that one.

In comment 13655365 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

on their employers time. Those who pay the piper call the tune. If an employer doesn't want political activism in the workplace then either play by the rules or find a new job. Again, I don't care and other than the pig socks by Kap I don't think anyone has been distasteful. But when anyone works for a business, they play by the rules of that business or they find a new job.

And there's no rule stating that they must stand for the anthem so....

In comment 13655163 Keith said:

Quote:

I hope this trend continues for another 5 years.

Exactly. We should all be hoping the NFL good ship lolipop sinks. Lower ratings will have a trickle down effect that will only improve the fan's overall experience.

have to stand and the NFL is afraid to do the same. No one is criticizing the NBA.

I know a lot of people who aren't watching. I can't say i have totally stopped watching but I have probably by 75%. Sick of social justice warriors in every aspect of life. You would think the players would stop because its just pissed off millions of people and obviously didnt have the effect they wanted. Just made things worst.

the national anthem before a game is a political statement in itself, one that glorifies war in the case of the US star spangled banner. so maybe the tradition of playing the anthem before the game should just go away if the ideas is to not mix politics with sports/entertainment/supposed diversions from the slog of real life.

In comment 13655387 Les in TO said:

Quote:

the national anthem before a game is a political statement in itself, one that glorifies war in the case of the US star spangled banner. so maybe the tradition of playing the anthem before the game should just go away if the ideas is to not mix politics with sports/entertainment/supposed diversions from the slog of real life.

Now there's an idea!

(and often hypocritical) "mega-patriot" stance and boycott the games when the product has already been in decline for several years for more legitimate and complex reasons.

(And it's also telling to see that the pearl-clutchers still haven't moved a single inch towards engaging the police brutality discussion.)

I was at the Steelers/Ravens game a few weeks back and there were a ton of empty seats. (Note, I only went because my neighbor had free tickets and parking. I'm not spending my money for these over paid Athletes and Rich Owners).

The Steeler/Raven rivalry is one of the biggest in football. It was a beautiful day for football and folks didn't show up.

Of course there are multiple reasons for this, but the players disrespecting the country and military vets is a significant factor. Why do you think the NFL met with players this week and Roger came out with the "We think all players should stand" statement today? They know this is a big factor.

I, as well, know people who have given up watching football because of it.

Fewer kids playing means less bonding over the NFL game on Sunday. When kids play, they watch more. Same with the parents.

it wasn't part of the last agreement. They have no right to step in now and demand it.

It's all BS anyway. I am amazed that anybody has a problem with this simple protest. It was a few guys (and some of the sharpest guys in the league) trying to make a change for something they believed in. Then the assholes stepped in with the disgracing the country BS. The people on that side of this story are the fools especially when they take it to the level of burning shirts, tickets and boycotting games.

Most of them have no fucking clue what this is about other than "No stand = anti-USA". What a joke.

In comment 13655451 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

it wasn't part of the last agreement. They have no right to step in now and demand it. It's all BS anyway. I am amazed that anybody has a problem with this simple protest. It was a few guys (and some of the sharpest guys in the league) trying to make a change for something they believed in. Then the assholes stepped in with the disgracing the country BS. The people on that side of this story are the fools especially when they take it to the level of burning shirts, tickets and boycotting games. Most of them have no fucking clue what this is about other than "No stand = anti-USA". What a joke.

Pretty much.

And, IMO, it goes both ways as that applies to those not watching because Kaep hasn’t been signed. Although I do think it’s wrong he hasn’t been signed, he specifically said that he was prepared for whatever consequences he received because of it. Now that those consequences have actually happened I’m supposed to give up something I do for enjoyment? Particularly when I’m of the thought that the NFL really has nothing to do with the reason for his protest? As if once he gets signed... and starts standing for the anthem (leaving those who are still kneeling out to dry)... that makes everything ok. Police brutality has been addressed once he’s a Raven or Jaguar... yeah... ok.

In comment 13655026 giantfan2000 said:

Quote:

the most important number . Through Week 6, in-game commercial inventory in the NFL broadcast windows has generated an estimated $1.24 billion in revenue, up 14 percent from the equivalent period last year. (It's worth noting that, to the networks' delight, a ratings dip coupled with flat or increased demand leads to an increase in the price of buying time in any TV program.)

That's misleading. The NFL Broadcast windows include the pregame shows. Ratings for the pre game shows are up while ratings for the games themselves are down. According to the linked article it is believed that the anthem controversy is boosting the ratings of the pre-game shows. This may also explain why the NFL is dragging its feet about clamping down.
Ad-age article: Anthem protests fuel pregame shows. - ( New Window )

I think Kap not being signed is about his declining skills than anything else.

He hasn't played good ball and he's not a good fit for most teams. That limits a guys options. If you have a drop back passer do you want a player like Kap who runs different plays as your backup?

If he was a player teams felt could help them I think they sign him.

In comment 13655509 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

I think Kap not being signed is about his declining skills than anything else. He hasn't played good ball and he's not a good fit for most teams. That limits a guys options. If you have a drop back passer do you want a player like Kap who runs different plays as your backup? If he was a player teams felt could help them I think they sign him.

Feel free to think that. I really have no problem with it because it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.

It’s my opinion that he’s at least shown that he can play good ball... as opposed to almost all the backups in the league (and a few starters for that matter). Meanwhile you’re telling me that Matt Cassell has the same playing style as Mariotta (for the most recent example)? The only time I see folks bringing up the backup’s playing style vs the starters is when discussing this. Does Derek Anderson play like Cam Newton? Nathan Peterman like Tyron Taylor?

If it was strictly... or even mostly... about his supposed declining skills you’d think he’d at least get called in for a tryout with at least ONE team... but that hasn’t happened. Sorry buddy... but you can’t tell me that a guy like Weedon can get a job but Kaep can’t based strictly on his skills or lack thereof.

I do also agree with those that say that bringing him in as a backup may not be worth the potential headache his signing might bring.

I’d love it if an owner would try to call his fan base’s bluff though.

In comment 13655527 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655509 KWALL2 said: Quote: I think Kap not being signed is about his declining skills than anything else. He hasn't played good ball and he's not a good fit for most teams. That limits a guys options. If you have a drop back passer do you want a player like Kap who runs different plays as your backup? If he was a player teams felt could help them I think they sign him. Feel free to think that. I really have no problem with it because it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. It’s my opinion that he’s at least shown that he can play good ball... as opposed to almost all the backups in the league (and a few starters for that matter). Meanwhile you’re telling me that Matt Cassell has the same playing style as Mariotta (for the most recent example)? The only time I see folks bringing up the backup’s playing style vs the starters is when discussing this. Does Derek Anderson play like Cam Newton? Nathan Peterman like Tyron Taylor? If it was strictly... or even mostly... about his supposed declining skills you’d think he’d at least get called in for a tryout with at least ONE team... but that hasn’t happened. Sorry buddy... but you can’t tell me that a guy like Weedon can get a job but Kaep can’t based strictly on his skills or lack thereof.

He almost got signed by the Ravens until his girlfriend sent out a racist tweet comparing Ray Lewis and the ravens owner as master and uncle tom:

.

Ray Lewis was shocked cause he was going to bat for Kaepernick.

Also nice Kaep donating to group named in a honor of a cop killer (Assattas daughters) and him wishing the same cop killer aka Joanne Chesimard warm birthday greetings on his twitter. Guy is a scumbag and should never have the privilege of playing in the nfl again.

Of backups not matching styles of the starters. However, that doesn't mean some (or even many) wouldn't want a spread type QB as the backup. I wouldn't. Why would a team want to flip the entire offensive scheme for a marginal player? If you need a guy to go in for an injured QB you have to change the entire game plan? No thanks.

There aren't many jobs available to start with especially for guy who wasn't playing well.

He wasnt very good and now he doesn't have a job. That happens to a lot of players his age that don't protest.

In comment 13655555 giant24 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655527 T-Bone said: Quote: In comment 13655509 KWALL2 said: Quote: I think Kap not being signed is about his declining skills than anything else. He hasn't played good ball and he's not a good fit for most teams. That limits a guys options. If you have a drop back passer do you want a player like Kap who runs different plays as your backup? If he was a player teams felt could help them I think they sign him. Feel free to think that. I really have no problem with it because it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. It’s my opinion that he’s at least shown that he can play good ball... as opposed to almost all the backups in the league (and a few starters for that matter). Meanwhile you’re telling me that Matt Cassell has the same playing style as Mariotta (for the most recent example)? The only time I see folks bringing up the backup’s playing style vs the starters is when discussing this. Does Derek Anderson play like Cam Newton? Nathan Peterman like Tyron Taylor? If it was strictly... or even mostly... about his supposed declining skills you’d think he’d at least get called in for a tryout with at least ONE team... but that hasn’t happened. Sorry buddy... but you can’t tell me that a guy like Weedon can get a job but Kaep can’t based strictly on his skills or lack thereof. He almost got signed by the Ravens until his girlfriend sent out a racist tweet comparing Ray Lewis and the ravens owner as master and uncle tom: . Ray Lewis was shocked cause he was going to bat for Kaepernick. Also nice Kaep donating to group named in a honor of a cop killer (Assattas daughters) and him wishing the same cop killer aka Joanne Chesimard warm birthday greetings on his twitter. Guy is a scumbag and should never have the privilege of playing in the nfl again.

Yeah thanks. I’ve heard all of this before. Multiple times. The same thing over and over again.

The pic posted by his girl? Stupid.

The pig socks? Stupid.

The Castro shirt? Honestly... I really don’t know enough about Castro to give an opinion on whether it was tasteless or not. What I will say is that I’ve seen and heard many people... even a few Cubans... who don’t have the same negative opinion of Castro than others. I may not be remembering correctly but I believe Dan Lebatard, who’s family is Cuban, said he had no issue with the shirt. Again, may be wrong about that but I don’t think I am.

Considering some of the unsavory characters that were and are currently playing in the league, I think it’s laughable to suggest that he shouldn’t have the same privileges.

In comment 13655565 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

Of backups not matching styles of the starters. However, that doesn't mean some (or even many) wouldn't want a spread type QB as the backup. I wouldn't. Why would a team want to flip the entire offensive scheme for a marginal player? If you need a guy to go in for an injured QB you have to change the entire game plan? No thanks. There aren't many jobs available to start with especially for guy who wasn't playing well. He wasnt very good and now he doesn't have a job. That happens to a lot of players his age that don't protest.

Kaep would’ve fit in perfectly in the Titans offense. Matter of fact, it was then not signing him when Mariotta got hurt that pushed him over the edge and file that Collusion complaint (which I think he has no chance of winning by the way).

Another dumb shit post by an idiot

How was that last Klan rally?

In comment 13655617 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655555 giant24 said: Quote: In comment 13655527 T-Bone said: Quote: In comment 13655509 KWALL2 said: Quote: I think Kap not being signed is about his declining skills than anything else. He hasn't played good ball and he's not a good fit for most teams. That limits a guys options. If you have a drop back passer do you want a player like Kap who runs different plays as your backup? If he was a player teams felt could help them I think they sign him. Feel free to think that. I really have no problem with it because it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. It’s my opinion that he’s at least shown that he can play good ball... as opposed to almost all the backups in the league (and a few starters for that matter). Meanwhile you’re telling me that Matt Cassell has the same playing style as Mariotta (for the most recent example)? The only time I see folks bringing up the backup’s playing style vs the starters is when discussing this. Does Derek Anderson play like Cam Newton? Nathan Peterman like Tyron Taylor? If it was strictly... or even mostly... about his supposed declining skills you’d think he’d at least get called in for a tryout with at least ONE team... but that hasn’t happened. Sorry buddy... but you can’t tell me that a guy like Weedon can get a job but Kaep can’t based strictly on his skills or lack thereof. He almost got signed by the Ravens until his girlfriend sent out a racist tweet comparing Ray Lewis and the ravens owner as master and uncle tom: . Ray Lewis was shocked cause he was going to bat for Kaepernick. Also nice Kaep donating to group named in a honor of a cop killer (Assattas daughters) and him wishing the same cop killer aka Joanne Chesimard warm birthday greetings on his twitter. Guy is a scumbag and should never have the privilege of playing in the nfl again. Yeah thanks. I’ve heard all of this before. Multiple times. The same thing over and over again. The pic posted by his girl? Stupid. The pig socks? Stupid. The Castro shirt? Honestly... I really don’t know enough about Castro to give an opinion on whether it was tasteless or not. What I will say is that I’ve seen and heard many people... even a few Cubans... who don’t have the same negative opinion of Castro than others. I may not be remembering correctly but I believe Dan Lebatard, who’s family is Cuban, said he had no issue with the shirt. Again, may be wrong about that but I don’t think I am. Considering some of the unsavory characters that were and are currently playing in the league, I think it’s laughable to suggest that he shouldn’t have the same privileges.

He openly worships a cop killer!! He wears pig socks!! He espouses Nation of Islam rhetoric (SPLC has them listed as a hate group due to their racist and anti-semetism) all the time on his twitter. Castro was a murdering dictator!! He also likes Che Gueverra another murderer. Come on man this guy should be ostracized by society and would be if the media actually reported the facts about this guy.

I was a subscriber to the fact he just had declining skills and was a "coach killer"....but I was shocked to hear his ratio last year:

16 TD
4 INT.

That's pretty darn good. And not have a job in the NFL?

I was also under the impression that his g/f tweeted that out after the Ravens owner had a change of heart (still, zero excuse).

And the guy does have a litany of stuff hovering over him......no question there.

First, I don't think fans are not watching because of CTE. Concerned? Yes, but I don't think that's a major factor. And I watched the level of play in the 70's...it was pretty bad, but it didn't hurt viewership.

What I think is happening is that for a LONG time now, you've had players and coaches who behaved badly and are hard to root for. From EE in Dallas abusing women, Greg Hardy abusing women, Josh Brown, Ray Rice hitting a woman and Goodell mishandling it, the Patriots cheating, Bountygate in New Orleans, and the list goes on.

And then you get social media, and seeing what the players really think..and a lot of them don't handle that well.

Hard to root for your team now.

The kneeling is just the feather that broke the camel's back here. The NFL has a horrible image right now, the players appear to be self centered, out of control, and just generally un-likeable. It's not really true, I'll bet 90% plus of the NFL are great guys, but the problem is the 10% or so that are always in the news for the wrong reasons.

There's a reason why the NFL used to be so protective of their image. Under Goodell, that's gone to hell. He's making money for the owners, but the league has suffered.

In comment 13655641 BillKo said:

Quote:

I was a subscriber to the fact he just had declining skills and was a "coach killer"....but I was shocked to hear his ratio last year: 16 TD 4 INT. That's pretty darn good. And not have a job in the NFL? I was also under the impression that his g/f tweeted that out after the Ravens owner had a change of heart (still, zero excuse). And the guy does have a litany of stuff hovering over him......no question there.

According to Ray Lewis they were still discussing:

Ray Lewis:
"“Then his girl goes out and put out this racist gesture and doesn’t know we are in the back office about to try to get this guy signed. Steve Bisciotti has said it himself, ‘How can you crucify Ray Lewis when Ray Lewis is the one calling for Colin Kaepernick?’ “

we're talking about price-elasticity here. The NFL made their product ubiquitous and a part of our national culture by among other things:

1. Making it freely and widely available. Increase the amount of games available (Sun, Thurs night games) and the base of possible viewers and you increase demand.

2. Making the teams all appear competitive (FA, caps) at least to start the season increases viewership.

3. Making the NFL brand represent things that unite Americans (supporting the troops, fighting breast cancer).

Over time the 16.2MM viewers from last year includes marginally interested viewers. Some recent changes to the product (politically divisive views, CTE issues) have impacted the cost, which is bringing the demand back down.

Not a big deal. I don't need all of America to be on the NFL's bandwagon anyway. I get sick of people who don't know their own team's players and half-watch games teaching me about the sport.

In comment 13655627 XBRONX said:

Quote:

Another dumb shit post by an idiot

Not sure what your problem is FUCKTARD, but crawl back under your rock and go fuck yourself.
DUMB fucks like you really ruin this site.

....that indicate the girlfriend tweeted after ESPN reported the Ravens wouldn't be signing Kap.

Who knows......Lewis is not one to be taken at face value I'd say.

Even Phil Simms was a skeptic, wondering why the story had never come out before Lewis talked about it on Inside the NFL.........

I’ll have RZ on in the background & be in and out of games other than the Giants. Times are different now though, I’m not going to sit on my ass for 12 hours on a Sunday glued to the NFL. I’m not in college anymore. I love the Giants and watch them intently, anything else I can do without. It isn’t because of politics or the product sucks though, I’m older now.

As for the politics, I don’t know what to tell people offended. I’d suggest they do some research on racial equality and some of the issues these players are peacefully protesting.

He didn't turn it over but he wasn't good. Couldn't move the team. Couldn't get first downs. The worst QB in the NFL converting on 3rd down. Sacked often. Couldn't score. By halftime they were getting blown out consistently last season.

For a lot of people here, what they believe is causing it is based more on their own personal feelings than any kind of objective analysis.

Is is "the quality of the games"? I have a hard time believing that most people who watch football have any substantive opinion on game "quality" beyond "it's a good game when my team wins and a bad game when my team loses"?

Is it CTE/Concussion issues? I doubt many people are even that aware of this and that it makes a big difference either way for people who do.

Is it the protests? The pro and con Kaepernick people? There's a lot of virtue signaling over these issues, but I have a hard time believing that there are really that many sensitive snowflakes out there who can't bear the thought of a few NFL players on their knee for the national anthem so much that they actually skip out on watching a game they would otherwise enjoy.

The bottom line is that TV network ratings are down across the board.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-ratings-premiere-week-20171004-story.html

Quote:

The combined audience for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW for the week of Sept. 25 through Oct. 1 was down 11% from a year ago, continuing the long-term trend of viewers shifting away from watching TV live.

There it is in a nutshell. Live TV viewership is down across the board. That's not my opinion. That's not some story some guy told me. That's based on actual data.

All the rest of this stuff is just noise.

On Netflix to watch.

is bang on. as I posted earlier, MLB prime time ratings are down 6% from last year, very similar to the NFL drop.

The sport that does it right is Soccer. Soccer leadership and attendance is increasing. Even in the US. Soccer games don't have commercials. They start and end on time. No overtime.

If the NFL could reduce the time commitment and cut out all comme4cials except at the quarter/half and shift to in view brief commercials while shifting between possei9ns and creatively advertise like soccer does I think the game time would be much shorter and more predictable.

Viewership would go up.

Thank you! TV viewership is down across the board!

In comment 13655796 Gary from The East End said:

Quote:

For a lot of people here, what they believe is causing it is based more on their own personal feelings than any kind of objective analysis. Is is "the quality of the games"? I have a hard time believing that most people who watch football have any substantive opinion on game "quality" beyond "it's a good game when my team wins and a bad game when my team loses"? Is it CTE/Concussion issues? I doubt many people are even that aware of this and that it makes a big difference either way for people who do. Is it the protests? The pro and con Kaepernick people? There's a lot of virtue signaling over these issues, but I have a hard time believing that there are really that many sensitive snowflakes out there who can't bear the thought of a few NFL players on their knee for the national anthem so much that they actually skip out on watching a game they would otherwise enjoy. The bottom line is that TV network ratings are down across the board. http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-ratings-premiere-week-20171004-story.html Quote: The combined audience for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW for the week of Sept. 25 through Oct. 1 was down 11% from a year ago, continuing the long-term trend of viewers shifting away from watching TV live. There it is in a nutshell. Live TV viewership is down across the board. That's not my opinion. That's not some story some guy told me. That's based on actual data. All the rest of this stuff is just noise.

Not according to polls, this one is line with most of the others I've seen:

The excision of those results showed that nearly a third - 30% - said they were watching fewer games this season (9% were watching more, 55% about the same), and that 52% of those watching less gave the reason as players protesting the national anthem.

91% of NFL Fans Still Prefer Games on Traditional TV

The poll also revealed that despite talks of "cord-cutting" and efforts to introduce other devices for fans to follow games, 91% of NFL fans still watch the games on traditional television, with only 4% saying "on computer" and just 1% citing a mobile device.

"If this is the emerging technology for watching live football, it clearly has a long way to go," noted Rick Gentile, director of the Seton Hall Sports Poll, which is sponsored by The Sharkey Institute.

The poll of 845 adults (on both landline and cellphone) was conducted across the US. It has a margin of error of 3.4%. 411 of the respondents made up the "fans of the NFL" sample.

But the bottom line is that the decline in NFL ratings matches the decline in network ratings generally. Without strong evidence to the contrary, Occam's Razor leads us to the conclusion that the declines are driven by the same factors.

Too obtuse to realize that sitting on a flag is way worse than kneeling, and definitely not smart enough to boycott the game. I'm sure some people do boycott, but not enough to make a noticeable effect on viewship decline.

The anti-kneelers are diehards and aren't going anywhere, they are too busy yelling about respecting the flag while ironically disrespecting it themselves.

I think Gary is spot on with the overall TV viewership decline. Anecdotally, I don't know a single person who has stopped watching because of kneeling.
link - ( New Window )

In comment 13655835 Gary from The East End said:

Quote:

But the bottom line is that the decline in NFL ratings matches the decline in network ratings generally. Without strong evidence to the contrary, Occam's Razor leads us to the conclusion that the declines are driven by the same factors.

Well whatever the reasons, for me, this issue has really taken away from the fun and excitement of watching football which was one of my goto passions/escapes from the daily stresses of life like work, raising teenagers, taking care of elderly parents, etc.

If those numbers are down then NFL should worry a lot

That's a good game!

That many people can't stand.

If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction.

The NFL is predominantly black as it pertains to the players. These guys are celebrities and could collectivEly do SO much for the plight of the poor black kid that they feel is targeted by the police. They travel to different cities every week with a certain amount of free time in each city. How many players have met with local police chiefs to discuss the issues? Including preseason 10 teams will have been through Chicago. How many players did ANYTHING about stopping the senseless killing of black kids there? 1% if that.

The anthem protest is like me standing in front of my house on fire with my fist up and yelling for all of my neighbors to get their garden hoses to help. If you want change then MAKE change. Don't pass it off on someone else by kneeling. That is a cop out.

The bigger problem is how those like tbone here (awesome guy by the way) are just baited and indoctrinated by the mass media hysteria over an agenda. It is specifically designed to keep minorities in a lower social class and it is disgusting. There are legitimate political science papers on the topic and Noam Chomsky speaks on it. The media waits with bated breath until an Eric Garner or Michael Brown happens to fan the flames. This keeps us divided politically and controlled as a population.

See.....I don't speak about it here but I am myself a minority. I am mixed race. You know why I don't feel oppressed every day? Because I don't ACT like I am oppressed every day. I don't use my racial background as a crutch when things don't break my way. I don't see myself as a 2nd class citizen and because of that nobody treats me like one. I've been called Uncle Tom and Oreo but that doesn't affect me because I do what is right and take responsibility for my actions. If you called me an Eagles fan I would be pissed though.

like Limerick Guy. A credit to every thread he visits.

In comment 13655861 Mad Mike said:

Quote:

like Limerick Guy. A credit to every thread he visits.

Especially the gay ones.

Repeated violence against women, protesting the anthem, diluted product, CTE...gee I'm shocked ratings are down.

In comment 13655861 Mad Mike said:

Quote:

like Limerick Guy. A credit to every thread he visits.

I do tend to waver a bit from the main topic. Good point.

In comment 13655860 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

That many people can't stand. If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction. The NFL is predominantly black as it pertains to the players. These guys are celebrities and could collectivEly do SO much for the plight of the poor black kid that they feel is targeted by the police. They travel to different cities every week with a certain amount of free time in each city. How many players have met with local police chiefs to discuss the issues? Including preseason 10 teams will have been through Chicago. How many players did ANYTHING about stopping the senseless killing of black kids there? 1% if that. The anthem protest is like me standing in front of my house on fire with my fist up and yelling for all of my neighbors to get their garden hoses to help. If you want change then MAKE change. Don't pass it off on someone else by kneeling. That is a cop out. The bigger problem is how those like tbone here (awesome guy by the way) are just baited and indoctrinated by the mass media hysteria over an agenda. It is specifically designed to keep minorities in a lower social class and it is disgusting. There are legitimate political science papers on the topic and Noam Chomsky speaks on it. The media waits with bated breath until an Eric Garner or Michael Brown happens to fan the flames. This keeps us divided politically and controlled as a population. See.....I don't speak about it here but I am myself a minority. I am mixed race. You know why I don't feel oppressed every day? Because I don't ACT like I am oppressed every day. I don't use my racial background as a crutch when things don't break my way. I don't see myself as a 2nd class citizen and because of that nobody treats me like one. I've been called Uncle Tom and Oreo but that doesn't affect me because I do what is right and take responsibility for my actions. If you called me an Eagles fan I would be pissed though.

I’m sorry but this is a silly post. I’m not going to call you anything. I don’t know you except for a few exchanges here or there and you don’t know me.

First off, you start off this post with the silly idea that because the men are able to play a sport and make some money doing it, they have no right to speak ANY injustice they may want to speak out against. Or is that just RACIAL injustices? But if they wanted to speak out against that pipeline saga in the Dakota, for example... that would be ok? Just trying to figure out where the line is drawn as to what they’re allowed to talk about and what not. To suggest that because these men are making a lot of money NOW that they can’t relate, understand, or speak on some of the injustices going on is just ... dumb. Where do you think most of these guys come from... Beverly Hills?

Regarding your comment about NFL players doing more.. you don’t know how much time these guys spend doing various charity work (sometimes at the request of the team, other times for their own charities)... BUT coming from a different angle, why are you making this about ‘poor black kids’? Police brutality has occurred to people of all ages. Like the ‘You make too much money to be protesting!’ argument above... no offense... but I don’t think you have as good a grasp on this issue as you think you do if you think NFL players going to more schools and gyms to talk to kids is gonna stop a cop from shooting someone unarmed in the back... and getting a paid vacation out of it usually. But you go on thinking that if it helps you.

Your analogy is just.... I just... I just don’t get it. And I’ve tried. A lot. I would say it’s silly but really? It makes no sense to me.Sorry. Please feel free to explain further.

Regarding your last two paragraphs. I’ll just say, again, you don’t know me. If you’re one of those conspiracy-type guys who believe people of color are being harassed, beaten and sometimes killed by some imaginary media agenda please feel free. Meanwhile, those of us who are living the shit will keep on keeping on. Having to deal with racism... REAL racism isn’t fun. At least not for most of us. I’m happy to hear that you’ve become the person you are (you seem like an ok guy despite your misguided views) through nothing else but your own sheer will, determination and hard work. I’m also happy that it appears you haven’t had too many cases where you’ve experienced some form of racism/police brutality yourself. I sincerely hope it stays that way your whole life.

But all that said, pointing out that something is wrong does not make one a victim or means they suffer from some kind of ‘victimhood’ mentality. Again, to suggest that is silly. What about Hollywood actors and actresses who speak out against it? They see themselves as second class citizens too? They have this ‘victimhood’ mentality too? Or is this confined to just celebrities? Can a high level corporate executive speak out against it and not be considered someone claiming to be a victim?

I’ve never felt ‘oppressed’ myself. But I damn sure have experienced my fair share of police harassment and brutality... and I didn’t need CNN to tell me I should be upset about it.

In comment 13655890 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

In comment 13655861 Mad Mike said: Quote: like Limerick Guy. A credit to every thread he visits. I do tend to waver a bit from the main topic. Good point.

Yeah well you wavered on this one too IMO.

to exist. If the Giants aren't on, I'm watching RedZone 100%.

Also, another thing that I've seen decline immensely in the last decade has been the simple broadcast quality of the pre and post game shows.
Does anyone actually watch the complete garbage that the NFL network puts out?!
It's literally morons like Deion Sanders and LT having conversations while highlights are playing.
THAT passes for broadcasting these days?!

It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.

Quote:

If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction

For a while I thought this guy was just an asshole. I had no idea how fucking stupid he is too.

Quote:

Kaep would’ve fit in perfectly in the Titans offense. Matter of fact, it was then not signing him when Mariotta got hurt that pushed him over the edge and file that Collusion complaint (which I think he has no chance of winning by the way).

Who did they sign?

Wasn't there a coaching connection with the player?

The coaches worked with the player. They know what he can do. I'd put my money on that being the deciding factor than any collusion against Kap.

In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.

Is it a factor? Sure, why not. Anything can be a factor. I'm sure the three major hurricanes we've had this season are a pretty big factor as well.

Is it a significant factor? One that the NFL should be seriously concerned about? I don't believe so.
Also, some notes on polling. - ( New Window )

In comment 13655387 Les in TO said:

Quote:

the national anthem before a game is a political statement in itself, one that glorifies war in the case of the US star spangled banner. so maybe the tradition of playing the anthem before the game should just go away if the ideas is to not mix politics with sports/entertainment/supposed diversions from the slog of real life.

And the giant flag they drape across the field as well. Why don't they just play the anthem before the players come out.

That's their business. But I wonder whether they are true football fans. Fans of the game. I think college football is corrupt, but I watch anyway. I may not like who an athelete supports politically, but if he's on my team I still root for him, and the team.

In comment 13655906 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655387 Les in TO said: Quote: the national anthem before a game is a political statement in itself, one that glorifies war in the case of the US star spangled banner. so maybe the tradition of playing the anthem before the game should just go away if the ideas is to not mix politics with sports/entertainment/supposed diversions from the slog of real life. And the giant flag they drape across the field as well. Why don't they just play the anthem before the players come out.

That flat display of the flag violates the U.S. Flag Code. I'm still waiting for the super-patriots to take their stand against that.

as 'Hey, you're black and you're making millions, stop you're bitching'.

I thought the Midwest Gay Club Scene thing was the height of stupidity, but this guy manages to bring it by the metric shit ton.

Despite being amazed at stupidity, that's no excuse for poor grammar.

I don't know if thats ever happened before.

Though MLB struck gold by having the four biggest media markets all make the division series. If it gets to Dodgers-Yanks then I'm thinking its a fix.
TV - ( New Window )

In comment 13655780 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

He didn't turn it over but he wasn't good. Couldn't move the team. Couldn't get first downs. The worst QB in the NFL converting on 3rd down. Sacked often. Couldn't score. By halftime they were getting blown out consistently last season.

Maybe the team just plain sucked?

In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor.

We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River.
I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not.

To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying.

There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)

When will people (especially old execs) realize that the utility of Neilsen ratings falls more and more each year?

In comment 13655860 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

That many people can't stand. If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction. The NFL is predominantly black as it pertains to the players. These guys are celebrities and could collectivEly do SO much for the plight of the poor black kid that they feel is targeted by the police. They travel to different cities every week with a certain amount of free time in each city. How many players have met with local police chiefs to discuss the issues? Including preseason 10 teams will have been through Chicago. How many players did ANYTHING about stopping the senseless killing of black kids there? 1% if that. The anthem protest is like me standing in front of my house on fire with my fist up and yelling for all of my neighbors to get their garden hoses to help. If you want change then MAKE change. Don't pass it off on someone else by kneeling. That is a cop out. The bigger problem is how those like tbone here (awesome guy by the way) are just baited and indoctrinated by the mass media hysteria over an agenda. It is specifically designed to keep minorities in a lower social class and it is disgusting. There are legitimate political science papers on the topic and Noam Chomsky speaks on it. The media waits with bated breath until an Eric Garner or Michael Brown happens to fan the flames. This keeps us divided politically and controlled as a population. See.....I don't speak about it here but I am myself a minority. I am mixed race. You know why I don't feel oppressed every day? Because I don't ACT like I am oppressed every day. I don't use my racial background as a crutch when things don't break my way. I don't see myself as a 2nd class citizen and because of that nobody treats me like one. I've been called Uncle Tom and Oreo but that doesn't affect me because I do what is right and take responsibility for my actions. If you called me an Eagles fan I would be pissed though.

This post is such fucking garbage.

And the handwringing about "Chicago" needs to be called out for where it came from. Chicago has the 28th highest murder per capita rate - behind cities like Philadelphia. So why has it been singled out? I can think of a couple reasons...


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13656038 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said: Quote: It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor. We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River. I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not. To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying. There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)

I don't think many would deny that there has been *some* impact, it's just a very small component, and nowhere near as large as the people who feel strongly about that topic believe it to be.

We are very different from the flyover states from a philosophical standpoint, but we're also very much alike. Take a look at the game between KC and Pittsburgh last week in Missouri and tell me how many people were too offended to show up to the stadium that day.

In comment 13656066 Sonic Youth said:

Quote:

When will people (especially old execs) realize that the utility of Neilsen ratings falls more and more each year?

Yeah, wondered about that as a reason.

In comment 13656077 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13656038 section125 said: Quote: In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said: Quote: It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor. We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River. I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not. To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying. There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.) I don't think many would deny that there has been *some* impact, it's just a very small component, and nowhere near as large as the people who feel strongly about that topic believe it to be. We are very different from the flyover states from a philosophical standpoint, but we're also very much alike. Take a look at the game between KC and Pittsburgh last week in Missouri and tell me how many people were too offended to show up to the stadium that day.

It is TV ratings that are down, not attendance. You pay $125 per ticket you are going. Your team is in 1st place and playing an ancient rival, you are going. FWIW, somebody had pictures from various games the other day where the Stadiums looked 75%-80% full. I don't know how attendance figures are this year.
I agree that there is more in common than dissimilar, but on political and moral views, they could not be more apart.

In comment 13655993 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

In comment 13655906 jeff57 said: Quote: In comment 13655387 Les in TO said: Quote: the national anthem before a game is a political statement in itself, one that glorifies war in the case of the US star spangled banner. so maybe the tradition of playing the anthem before the game should just go away if the ideas is to not mix politics with sports/entertainment/supposed diversions from the slog of real life. And the giant flag they drape across the field as well. Why don't they just play the anthem before the players come out. That flat display of the flag violates the U.S. Flag Code. I'm still waiting for the super-patriots to take their stand against that.

No no no. Surprisingly, the hypocrisy of their Stars and Stripes extra husky khakis never seem to lead to self reflection. They're actually being extra patriotic.

In comment 13656093 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13656077 jcn56 said: Quote: In comment 13656038 section125 said: Quote: In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said: Quote: It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor. We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River. I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not. To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying. There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.) I don't think many would deny that there has been *some* impact, it's just a very small component, and nowhere near as large as the people who feel strongly about that topic believe it to be. We are very different from the flyover states from a philosophical standpoint, but we're also very much alike. Take a look at the game between KC and Pittsburgh last week in Missouri and tell me how many people were too offended to show up to the stadium that day. It is TV ratings that are down, not attendance. You pay $125 per ticket you are going. Your team is in 1st place and playing an ancient rival, you are going. FWIW, somebody had pictures from various games the other day where the Stadiums looked 75%-80% full. I don't know how attendance figures are this year. I agree that there is more in common than dissimilar, but on political and moral views, they could not be more apart.

Wait, so this strong philosophical stance only applies when we're talking about TV, not in person? Or against 'ancient rivals'?

That doesn't seem a little off to you?

The photos that Eric posted were all from contests where one (or both) teams were abysmal. People not attending shitty games between bad teams isn't exactly a new development.

you have San Diego and St Louis fans who were totally abused by owners
and Oakland fans perhaps too

I am sure they have tuned out of games --

In comment 13656108 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13656093 section125 said: Wait, so this strong philosophical stance only applies when we're talking about TV, not in person? Or against 'ancient rivals'? That doesn't seem a little off to you?

I don't know about you, but if I hold a ticket that I paid for I'm going. So no it doesn't seem off to me. 7% is not a huge number and like I said it may very well be just the last indignity of several to cause people to tune out. Much easier to not turn on the TV than throw away $300 by not attending. (Were you a season ticket holder?)

My problem (for lack of a better word) is that people don't believe repeated poles showing the same results. For some people anything is a reason to revolt. For others it is a perceived notion that the NFL doesn't care about (or disrespects) them. Shitty product as you say and I agree, constant commercials, too many games and too long and now the protests are just the last of a long line to push these people away.

In comment 13655900 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

Quote: Kaep would’ve fit in perfectly in the Titans offense. Matter of fact, it was then not signing him when Mariotta got hurt that pushed him over the edge and file that Collusion complaint (which I think he has no chance of winning by the way). Who did they sign? Wasn't there a coaching connection with the player? The coaches worked with the player. They know what he can do. I'd put my money on that being the deciding factor than any collusion against Kap.

KWALL - I won't be able to participate as much today as I'm busier at work today than I was yesterday.

But to answer your questions, they signed Brandon Weeden.

No, there was no coaching connection (at least not that I found). Mularkey is quoted in the linked article as saying that they decided to go with Weeden because he seemed to be most familiar with the offense due to previous stops.

Again... to not even be called in for a workout over the likes of Weeden, Matt Barkley, Matt McGloin and T.J. Yates (Kaep has at least shown more than all four of those guys combined in the past) tells me that it's more than just football ability that's being counted against him. Even in the article below it states that in the Dolphins' case that Kaep would be a more logical choice than Cutler because of the similar style of play between Kaep and Tannehill.


A bunch of Mularkey? - ( New Window )

And much more important here is they don't have to eat the entire ticket - they can sell them.

If I believed strongly about a cause, I'd take a loss rather than go to the game. Want to bet that the average price of the tickets last Sunday were well over face value?

I've seen the polls - mostly faulty, conducted with small sample sizes or targeted to get specific results (like most polls).

The data her is very easy to understand - MLB saw a drop of 6%, NFL 7.5%. Network viewership is down across the board. There wasn't some huge drop due to protests, but there was some impact.

The people who know these numbers better than anyone - from ticket sales to merchandise to concessions - the NFL owners - have taken no action on the matter. That should tell you everything you need to know.

In comment 13656158 jcn56 said:

Quote:

If I believed strongly about a cause, I'd take a loss rather than go to the game. Want to bet that the average price of the tickets last Sunday were well over face value?

You have good points in the full post, which I edited down for expedience. But as to strongly feeling about a cause - I doubt all but a few feel strongly. 7% is not a big number and you give good reasons why it could be various things or just a statistical anomaly, as NFL numbers were in decline since two years ago, iirc. And I agree that is more than just this. But no matter how you argue around it, the kneeling is bothering more than a few people or it wouldn't be talked about.

In comment 13656215 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13656158 jcn56 said: Quote: If I believed strongly about a cause, I'd take a loss rather than go to the game. Want to bet that the average price of the tickets last Sunday were well over face value? You have good points in the full post, which I edited down for expedience. But as to strongly feeling about a cause - I doubt all but a few feel strongly. 7% is not a big number and you give good reasons why it could be various things or just a statistical anomaly, as NFL numbers were in decline since two years ago, iirc. And I agree that is more than just this. But no matter how you argue around it, the kneeling is bothering more than a few people or it wouldn't be talked about.

I'm sure it's bothering more than a few people - my point is just that those folks won't take action on that.

Why is it being talked about? Well, because there are people who stand to gain from all this - politicians, media outlets, etc. - they're all benefiting in one way or another.

And it's got nothing to do with demographics - this is inherently American. My favorite example, Chick-Fil-A. Their conservative stances were openly mocked here in NYC, and when there were plans to open up a Manhattan location there were talks of protests, boycotts, etc.

Swing by there one of these days and let me know how that worked out. One of their locations had to close to address some health violations and people lost their shit. Oh, and couple the political stance with some actual, valid health violation concerns, and did the business suffer? Of course not.

Note that I'm working closely with a sports team now (not NFL) and have discussed the issue with them and assimilated their POV.

Hockey for years struggled on TV because of several things: suitability for tiny low-def TV, 2 intermissions, various rules (since changed) and lack of fan interest outside a core group. The core group was die-hard fans that went to games and followed the sport closely including putting up with the TV situation and finding ways to watch. TV and live viewing are synergistic. Through technology, rule changes, and a boost from extravagant Olympic games hockey was able to put together a better product for fans to sample on TV, and as a result some of those fans went to live games. Once you went to a live game you experienced hockey in its glory including the speed, noise, energy and violence and that created more core fans. And hockey was relatively inexpensive and very fan friendly.

Before the economic meltdown sports were seen as the key to saving television - the last shared experience in an age of time shifting and small & multi screening. After the meltdown, this continued as TV became a more attractive means to watch given the increased price of live attendance. Meanwhile sports executives were "fighting the last war" - adding capacity to live venues, raking in more dollars from TV whenever possible, and raising the cost of attendance in every possible way.

Now, live sports attendance is on the decline because average fans are priced out. Note there will be limited impact here as population keeps growing and there is only so much capacity. Formula One races are the most pricey, extravagant events there is and they sell out regularly. So as we move more toward more polarized groups of haves and have-nots, there will probably be enough haves to attend events live for some time. But - only for premium brands and for that years winners.

In a nutshell. hard-core fans will always attend & watch. Haves will attend when there is cache' associated with it and watch those same teams. Have-nots will be increasingly disenfranchised, attending less and less because of economics and as a result watching less and less. However, most leagues understand that increased globalization will save them (at least so far as TV) if they try hard enough. That's why the NFL wants Europe and Mexico so badly, baseball wants latin America and China so badly, and everyone wants Africa eventually because it's the last bastion of growth. Globalization will probably save most US sports teams but its hard to know given the US's tenuous tightrope walk across the chasm of issues facing our delicate democracy and if we fall off the rope sports aren't likely to be at the top of issues people are worrying about.

In comment 13656302 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 13656215 section125 said: Quote: In comment 13656158 jcn56 said: Quote: And it's got nothing to do with demographics - this is inherently American. My favorite example, Chick-Fil-A. Their conservative stances were openly mocked here in NYC, and when there were plans to open up a Manhattan location there were talks of protests, boycotts, etc. Swing by there one of these days and let me know how that worked out. One of their locations had to close to address some health violations and people lost their shit. Oh, and couple the political stance with some actual, valid health violation concerns, and did the business suffer? Of course not.

It is most certainly demographics. America is a huge country with multiple demographics. NYC and Texas..think there aren't core value differences between the two? Your own example was about demographics - the South were Chik-Fil-A started and NYC/North East.

BTW, just what is inherently American? Sorry missing your point on that...

I meant the inaction isn't due to demographics - both groups really aren't doing anything meaningful to show their disapproval, they're continuing to consume products from both companies. There are obviously huge differences in values/beliefs between the two groups, but as American as apple pie, although they bitch about it constantly, they're not really doing much about it.

In comment 13656393 jcn56 said:

Quote:

I meant the inaction isn't due to demographics - both groups really aren't doing anything meaningful to show their disapproval, they're continuing to consume products from both companies. There are obviously huge differences in values/beliefs between the two groups, but as American as apple pie, although they bitch about it constantly, they're not really doing much about it.

Ah gotcha - agree. Nation of bitchers.

Until this kneeling started, me v the President, etc. ratings had not had this much of a decline.

I believe the nadir was the strike year at ~11%.

The real hypocrisy is protesting a peaceful, protest while viewership isn't affected by Rice KO'ing his girl, Lewis murdering someone and intimidating witnesses, Carruthers murdering, Big Ben the serial rapist, etc.

I would never kneel, but this is Kap's right. He's not a scumbag thug like the players tarnishing the NFL.

Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts:

1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made.

2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner.

3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views.

4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.

Not sensoring , in previous post.

Yes I though it was Weeden. His former coach is on the staff and t was talked about this on tiki barbers show about his coach. Tiki mentioned it as a good reason a backup would be signed.

I have friends who are not watching because of the protests. I When you have no legitimate argument against something claim bias against flag. troops or children. Interestingly enough, after they get past the the are disrespecting the flag and our troops, they say something similar to things I have seen echoed here.

"Wealthy young black men could do more" "Prima Donnas" "A privilege to play a game for a living" "Thugs" I had someone tell me that "slaves couldn't quit but they can." Racism is very alive and very real in this country.

What is the goal of a protest? In the simplest, most convenient definition "To get attention" By that definition, this has been the MOST successful protest I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Young black men have gotten old billionaire white men to sit down with and listen to their issues. They have gotten all them except Jerry Jones to agree with them, not force them to stand and to help them get legislation passed to change our social injustice problem.

These young men used their position of fame to help the vulnerable. They did it with great professional risk(see Colin K) They did it peacefully. They did with respect...KNEELING is a symbol of greater respect than standing.

I could not be more proud of these young men. We will see more peaceful protesting in the future because of their success. That is a good thing. Expect more people to kneel at public events to get attention for a cause, the people who hate this particular type of protest have NO ONE to blame but THEMSELVES. It is their outrage and boycotting of games that has made this protest SO SUCCESSFUL. Thanks.

but also for good reasons.

For my part, the ugly corporate side of the NFL has become too difficult to stomach. The ongoing efforts to marginalize the knowledge of brain injuries for decades is just not something I can get beyond.

In comment 13656038 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said: Quote: It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor. We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River. I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not. To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying. There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)

I'm in Missouri, last week I was in Wisconsin, few weeks ago I was in Kentucky, then before Kansas and nebraska.

No sports bar I was in gave a shit about the protests other than say they shouldn't do it.

They still watched.

The Midwest isn't some crazy bastion of special people. They just love guns more out here. People are essentially the same.

a few may take a stand but most won't want to lose the business. The people who stopped watching don't go to the bars to watch the games, they are at home making time for a sport that has flaws too numerous to list and have hit their limit.

In comment 13655860 ThatLimerickGuy said:

Quote:

That many people can't stand. If you make millions to play a game and yet you protest racial inequality in this country then you are a walking contradiction.

Not if you believe that people are capable of speaking on behalf of other people, including friends and relatives.

In comment 13655178 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13655138 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: In comment 13655005 JonC said: Quote: but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job. The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs." Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.) And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad." It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies. It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse. For me it comes down to leave politics out of football. I couldn't care less about the politics whether I agree or not. That's the thing about all this... the politics were never put INTO football. The players kneeling during the anthem has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the game itself. NOTHING. AT. ALL. It's the people saying 'Leave politics out of football!' that are actually the ones bringing politics into it. It's not like Kaep was running for a 30 yard score... stopped short of the goal-line and took a knee against police brutality. It's not like Kaep yelled 'Black Live Matter!' into the camera after completing a pass. You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.

Agree. Also, the NFL and the DoD were the ones that put politics into the pre-game when the DoD paid the NFL to have the military put on the goofy pre-game pageantry (which borders on propaganda) and having to watch constant recruitment commercials during broadcasts.

In comment 13656038 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said: Quote: It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor. We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River. I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not. To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying. There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)

This sums it up nicely.

In comment 13656038 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 13655896 Dunedin81 said: Quote: It's not the only reason, maybe not even the biggest reason, for the ratings drop, and certainly there is some virtue signaling. But to dismiss all of them, and every one of your Facebook friends who says he is no longer watching, as liars is silly. It is clearly A factor. We at BBI have a very North East POV. Go to the "flyover" states and see their opinion - 50+% of the country lives there and midwesterners don't think like us. You cannot dismiss the protest factor because it doesn't fit your/our NE POV. It is a big country west of the Delaware River. I agree with the players position of inequality to a point. I disagree with the kneeling. It has no effect on whether I watch the NFL or not. To me, the over saturation of game days and quality of play causes me to not watch non-Giants games. I rarely watch MNF or SNF and always forget about TNF. I could care less about London games. TD - commercial - KO - commercial is garbage and I hated sitting through those mid December at the stadium. Now it is just annoying. There are many reasons that ratings are down and the protests are at least a reason and maybe the impetus for those who were on the edge to begin with (just the straw that broke the camel's back.)

This sums it up nicely.

In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said:

Quote:

Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts: 1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made. 2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner. 3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views. 4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented.

This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next?

In comment 13655140 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 13655107 japanhead said: Quote: politics! just ask eric! You sound awfully butthurt.

you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..

.

In comment 13657353 japanhead said:

Quote:

In comment 13655140 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655107 japanhead said: Quote: politics! just ask eric! You sound awfully butthurt. you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong..

If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you?

Is no one wants to have a conversation. Everyone says let's have a conversation, but that would involve one side acknowledging that the broader run of statistics don't particularly make their case, and the other that it's easy to make light of dignity when it's not your dignity at stake. And one side bandies about their slogans and rallies their partisans and the other side does the same and everyone is convinced their opponents are low information uberpatriots or hate 'Merica. Virtually nobody is honest about this, because being honest would mean acknowledging that certain arguments your side throws up are pure, unadulterated bullshit.

In comment 13657431 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

Is no one wants to have a conversation. Everyone says let's have a conversation, but that would involve one side acknowledging that the broader run of statistics don't particularly make their case, and the other that it's easy to make light of dignity when it's not your dignity at stake. And one side bandies about their slogans and rallies their partisans and the other side does the same and everyone is convinced their opponents are low information uberpatriots or hate 'Merica. Virtually nobody is honest about this, because being honest would mean acknowledging that certain arguments your side throws up are pure, unadulterated bullshit.

This is what i was trying to say. How about instead of all the instigating from one side or another, why not provide a comprehensive plan as to what you would like see happen. Both sides would have to take a good long hard look at themselves and concede on some level because both sides arguments are NOT the end all be all.

In comment 13657419 bradshaw44 said:

Quote:

In comment 13657353 japanhead said: Quote: In comment 13655140 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655107 japanhead said: Quote: politics! just ask eric! You sound awfully butthurt. you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong.. If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you?

i'm not partisan, bro.. i don't have a "side."

In comment 13657431 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

Is no one wants to have a conversation. Everyone says let's have a conversation, but that would involve one side acknowledging that the broader run of statistics don't particularly make their case, and the other that it's easy to make light of dignity when it's not your dignity at stake. And one side bandies about their slogans and rallies their partisans and the other side does the same and everyone is convinced their opponents are low information uberpatriots or hate 'Merica. Virtually nobody is honest about this, because being honest would mean acknowledging that certain arguments your side throws up are pure, unadulterated bullshit.

I'm not sure what your point is here. The data show pretty conclusively that the protests are having little to no effect on ratings. NFL ratings declines are in line with the drop in MLB ratings as well as declines in network ratings generally.

Quite frankly, all the people who assert that the protests are the primary cause of ratings declines are anecdotes from Facebook or their friends or family. Tthe plural of anecdote is not data.

The protest thing didn't really blow up until the President's rally on Alabama on September 22nd, when he encouraged owners to fire players who kneel during the anthem. Prior to the President's statements in Alabama and his subsequent tweets, the player protests were pretty limited.

In week 1 Seahawk Michael Bennett sat during the anthem. Niners Eric Reid took a knee, and teammates put their hands on him. Rams’ Robert Quinn raised his right fist. That was pretty much it.

In week 3, after the President's comments, players from 17 teams participated in some kind of protest.

NOTE: The mention of the President in this post is to put the events in context and is not intended as editorial.

So it's interesting and instructive to note that the biggest decline in NFL ratings was for weeks 1 and 2 when cumulative viewership was down 12.3 and 11.5 percent, respectively, from the previous year. Since week 3, ratings have been steadily improving. The drop noted in the header of this thread represents a narrowing of the gap with 2016.

SNF in week 6, which, as we all know, featured a matchup between the then Broncos and the then winless Giants, delivered a 9.4 rating and 16.2 million viewers on NBC Sunday night, up 16% in ratings and 19% in viewership from Colts-Texans in 2016 (8.1, 13.6M).

http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/nfl-ratings-continue-to-crawl-back-to-normal/
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2017/10/sunday-night-football-ratings-nbc-giants-broncos-week-6/

In comment 13657726 japanhead said:

Quote:

In comment 13657419 bradshaw44 said: Quote: In comment 13657353 japanhead said: Quote: In comment 13655140 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655107 japanhead said: Quote: politics! just ask eric! You sound awfully butthurt. you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong.. If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you? i'm not partisan, bro.. i don't have a "side."

You are very offended by Eric’s side. This would put you at odds. Therefore giving you a side.

After being bilked out of $320 (CDN$) for the NFL last year and not having any prime time games, I switched to live streams on reddit.

In comment 13655796 Gary from The East End said:

Quote:

For a lot of people here, what they believe is causing it is based more on their own personal feelings than any kind of objective analysis. Is is "the quality of the games"? I have a hard time believing that most people who watch football have any substantive opinion on game "quality" beyond "it's a good game when my team wins and a bad game when my team loses"? Is it CTE/Concussion issues? I doubt many people are even that aware of this and that it makes a big difference either way for people who do. Is it the protests? The pro and con Kaepernick people? There's a lot of virtue signaling over these issues, but I have a hard time believing that there are really that many sensitive snowflakes out there who can't bear the thought of a few NFL players on their knee for the national anthem so much that they actually skip out on watching a game they would otherwise enjoy. The bottom line is that TV network ratings are down across the board. http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-ratings-premiere-week-20171004-story.html Quote: The combined audience for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW for the week of Sept. 25 through Oct. 1 was down 11% from a year ago, continuing the long-term trend of viewers shifting away from watching TV live. There it is in a nutshell. Live TV viewership is down across the board. That's not my opinion. That's not some story some guy told me. That's based on actual data. All the rest of this stuff is just noise.

Spot on post. I think each of those you mentioned may be playing a factor into it but it's a minor one. I would also add that the Thursday Night game is it's own worse enemy and a huge drag on the viewership numbers. The other factor that may be causing the decline is that the usual big draws (Dallas, Giants, NE, Pitt, GB..etc..etc)
are not performing as well as they usually do. That will lose you a bunch of the casual fan viewership

But the most telling factor is that Network television in itself is down across the board.

In comment 13657052 bradshaw44 said:

Quote:

In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said: Quote: Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts: 1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made. 2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner. 3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views. 4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented. This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next?

The reason why the NFL can't really force the standing during the Anthem is that even though the teams are Private Entities the vast majority of venues they play in are not. They are for the most part publically funded stadiums which therefore means you can't really force anyone to do anything in a public forum

In comment 13659200 montanagiant said:

Quote:

In comment 13657052 bradshaw44 said: Quote: In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said: Quote: Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts: 1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made. 2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner. 3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views. 4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented. This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next? The reason why the NFL can't really force the standing during the Anthem is that even though the teams are Private Entities the vast majority of venues they play in are not. They are for the most part publically funded stadiums which therefore means you can't really force anyone to do anything in a public forum

How can the NBA force players to stand for the anthem? Is every NBA arena privately funded?

Don't watch anywhere near as much television as previous generations. They are more inclined to view clips from the Internet on their phones or tablets. They You Tube it up.

What's really taken off for the them are products like Verizon's Red Zone, where they can scan the whole card while keeping tabs of their fantasy teams and gambling bets.

I went to the first two home games this season. I concluded that there really are no true Giant fans anymore who are between the ages of, say, 25-40 years old . These people are cyber Fellow Travelers . They are into the food, their broads, phones and appearance .

I think for them the game itself is a distraction at best, a nuisance at worst.

In comment 13659204 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13659200 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 13657052 bradshaw44 said: Quote: In comment 13656482 BocaGiants91 said: Quote: Limerick’s post, and I can see how some would feel that way about players being a walking contradiction, however , what they are doing is speaking up for those who will not or cannot be heard, which is why I am ok with that part. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. A few thoughts: 1. When does the protest reach it’s conclusion? I’d say most Americans, unless they are under a rock are aware of the issues in this instance. What would be meaningful progress to these players? I know it’s very subjective but the progress on the issue of police brutality towards minorities may be enough for some but not be enough for others when there is progress made. 2. When Trump made his comments on this, that’s when I believe the message of the protests had been fully lost, instead of the issue being at the forefront, the act of protesting itself became the headliner. 3. The NFL is a private business entity. The owners would be well within their rights to make a rule that all players stand for the national anthem. They would not be infringing on any rights. Freedom of speech/expression has nothing to do with it, that only pertains to the government itself sensoring or persecuting individuals and organizations for their views. 4. I respect all sides of this, that’s the beauty of this country, we can all have an opinion, I always think there’s more then one path to a solution, and I think this protested issue has reached the solution stage. Instead of further protests I would be more interested in seeing meaningful discussion and solutions implemented. This is a good post. And I would love for number 4 to come to fruition. Both sides just Protest and Yet i haven’t heard one solution put forth in regards to what both protests want to accomplish. I guess the non game watchers are angling for the players to stand and “show respect” to the military (but the protests aren’t anti military in intent.). The kneelers want some form of social justice, but how do they want it achieved? What’s the end game? This part is what’s frustrating to many of the non watchers. Someone needs to articulate this plan/view before any progress can begin to happen. Just saying cops are targeting minorities and it needs to stop isn’t going to solve this. Lay out a comprehensive plan detailing everything from specific incidents that have taken place and exactly how they can and will fix this kind of incident from happening again. Body cameras is a start, but what next? The reason why the NFL can't really force the standing during the Anthem is that even though the teams are Private Entities the vast majority of venues they play in are not. They are for the most part publically funded stadiums which therefore means you can't really force anyone to do anything in a public forum How can the NBA force players to stand for the anthem? Is every NBA arena privately funded?

NBA has had the Standing Rule in place since at least the 90's. It's been in every team's contract with the NBA and in the CBA the players agreed to. Even with that if a player pushed it he would have a decent case.

In comment 13658199 bradshaw44 said:

Quote:

In comment 13657726 japanhead said: Quote: In comment 13657419 bradshaw44 said: Quote: In comment 13657353 japanhead said: Quote: In comment 13655140 JonC said: Quote: In comment 13655107 japanhead said: Quote: politics! just ask eric! You sound awfully butthurt. you've surmised that i'm butthurt because eric is a partisan hack? nah man. you've got it all wrong.. If Eric is a partisan hack, what does that make you? i'm not partisan, bro.. i don't have a "side." You are very offended by Eric’s side. This would put you at odds. Therefore giving you a side.

no.. i am not "very offended" by eric's side. i just think it's funny/hypocritical that the host of the site decries partisan bickering while engaging in subtle, oblique partisanship himself, and so i call it out.

sure isn't going to help improve the ratings.