|
|
Â
|
| Quote: |
| When it comes to the week-in, week-out NFL ratings, skilled P.R. professionals know how to make bad numbers look good and/or good numbers look bad. Cumulative, all-encompassing numbers are more difficult to spin. And here are the cumulative, all-encompassing numbers for NFL ratings through six weeks, via Darren Rovell of ESPN.com: The audience is down by 7.5 percent. Specifically, 15 million people on average watched games for the first six weeks of the year. Last year, the number was 16.2 million. |
Quote:
just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread.
if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings.
reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful.
The next question is, how long do they stay away? As some have posted above...probably not long.
And the NFL knows it.
Absolutely, but then ratings should increase (if the Anthem protests were an impact as I believe).
If you see an NFL ratings increase it probably invalidates the streaming, cord cutting, bar watching excuses unless those outlets get controlled somehow.
IMO, the NFL should consider having some kind of package on series of channels so you can watch any game that you want. The TV deals are actually restricting access.
Quote:
But it is A factor.
Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage.
B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was his name!
And the reason their garbage? Pull out your schedule and circle the games you'd really watch. Then put a line thru the garbage games...........
The NFL is setup to succeed....via gambling (and of course now fantasy), and it being played once a week to entice you back in every weekend (sans TNF which is a complete failure IMO).
Quote:
just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread.
if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings.
reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful.
If you don't know what the 'difference' is then there's no point in trying to explain it. I'll move on from that.
I'm not searching for any other reasons... I"m just dismissing the idea that the number of people not watching is enough for the owners to really care about who's watching and who isn't. It's ok if you don't want to believe that... my little brother didn't believe it either when I told him the same thing for HIS reason for protesting.
Sure there's an 'impact'. Our argument is how great that impact is and whether it's big enough to worry the owners. I'm thinking not.
So why do you think the owners are having urgent summits and meetings about the Anthem protests?
It's hard to get NFL owners motivated, look how long CTE has been around before it got any attention. If the owners didn't care they wouldn't be so easily mobilized on the issue, IMO.
Quote:
the most important number
. Through Week 6, in-game commercial inventory in the NFL broadcast windows has generated an estimated $1.24 billion in revenue, up 14 percent from the equivalent period last year. (It's worth noting that, to the networks' delight, a ratings dip coupled with flat or increased demand leads to an increase in the price of buying time in any TV program.)
Follow the money.............good post.
Missed this post and it's pretty much saying what I've been saying... I think those that are protesting (on both sides) are greatly overrating what their actual impact will be on the league.
Quote:
but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.
The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs."
Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.)
And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad."
It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies.
It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse.
For me it comes down to leave politics out of football. I couldn't care less about the politics whether I agree or not.
You sound awfully butthurt.
Quote:
In comment 13655092 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
just like the protests are staged events. How is it any different? I referenced him to show how far reaching the disdain has spread.
if you don't believe there are an impactful number of people (NFL fans) who are unhappy enough about the players protesting during the National Anthem that it would make a difference in ratings by not watching, that's your prerogative to believe and you'll search for other reasons for the lower ratings.
reality is there is more likely than not an impact to ratings because of people who no longer watch because they find the Anthem protests disrespectful.
If you don't know what the 'difference' is then there's no point in trying to explain it. I'll move on from that.
I'm not searching for any other reasons... I"m just dismissing the idea that the number of people not watching is enough for the owners to really care about who's watching and who isn't. It's ok if you don't want to believe that... my little brother didn't believe it either when I told him the same thing for HIS reason for protesting.
Sure there's an 'impact'. Our argument is how great that impact is and whether it's big enough to worry the owners. I'm thinking not.
So why do you think the owners are having urgent summits and meetings about the Anthem protests?
It's hard to get NFL owners motivated, look how long CTE has been around before it got any attention. If the owners didn't care they wouldn't be so easily mobilized on the issue, IMO.
They were having that meeting anyway... all they've said is that it will be one of the first and main topics they talk about... I don't believe that means that they're panicking over the thought of how many people may leave... because they know they'll be back... they ALWAYS come back.
I said before that I think the CTE issue is more of a priority to get resolved because it actually impacts what's on the field (less youth playing football) than the protests.
Quote:
In comment 13655005 JonC said:
Quote:
but the NFL and its players should separate themselves from politics and potentially negative social activities. You want to protest as a player? Figure out a platform away from doing your job.
The problem with that is that these players (especially star players) are associated with their employers whenever they engage the public arena in any way. There's really no way for them to publicly express their political beliefs fully "away from their jobs."
Wherever they go, and whatever they do, their jobs go with them. (For a completely non-political example, look no further than how last January's infamous boating excursion caused PR problems for the Giants organization.)
And even if players do take political stands outside of the team uniform, we'll still have plenty of yahoos saying, "The only reason we know who the hell you are is because of your football team. So shut up and don't make them look bad."
It's just like Hollywood celebrities. They take political stances in their personal time, and people hate them for it anyway. "That's it! I'll never watch [so-and-so]'s movies ever again!", even though so-and-so might make some pretty damned good movies.
It all comes down to this, "If your politics don't agree with mine, get them out of my face." If all of these NFL players took the protest elsewhere -- even to, say, a public march or something -- once that is broadcast to the masses, there will still be a significant public backlash against them. The anthem/flag component is just a really convenient (and self-righteous) excuse.
For me it comes down to leave politics out of football. I couldn't care less about the politics whether I agree or not.
That's the thing about all this... the politics were never put INTO football. The players kneeling during the anthem has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the game itself. NOTHING. AT. ALL. It's the people saying 'Leave politics out of football!' that are actually the ones bringing politics into it. It's not like Kaep was running for a 30 yard score... stopped short of the goal-line and took a knee against police brutality. It's not like Kaep yelled 'Black Live Matter!' into the camera after completing a pass.
You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.
HA! That too!
I was just telling my neighbor this past weekend how the ire and anger over the protests seemed to be dying down a bit until a certain person needed to fan those flames again (again, because he was told that's a club he's not able to buy himself into).
nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings.
I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings.
If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.
There's elegance and simplicity in the violence of pro-football; the bigger hitter, the faster runner, the man that wants it more and is willing to suffer more pain is the one who usually wins.
Until, wait a 'secin, its the Head of Officials calling in from New York City and he says according to section 287 of rule number 619 as interpreted by the super slow mo replay we've been watching for 5 minutes indicates a failure to maintain possession through reestablishing going to the ground while performing the football act of hitting the pylon. Fuck that.
nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings.
I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings.
If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.
I didn't say that it's impacting the ratings. I said that the owners are much more concerned about that than any reports of diminished ratings and the reasons why.
And again, I too believe that politics has had an impact. Where we disagree is how much of an impact it's had and how much the owners care about it.
Of course we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion too much to not agree to disagree.
There's elegance and simplicity in the violence of pro-football; the bigger hitter, the faster runner, the man that wants it more and is willing to suffer more pain is the one who usually wins.
Until, wait a 'secin, its the Head of Officials calling in from New York City and he says according to section 287 of rule number 619 as interpreted by the super slow mo replay we've been watching for 5 minutes indicates a failure to maintain possession through reestablishing going to the ground while performing the football act of hitting the pylon. Fuck that.
+1
Quote:
But it is A factor.
Biggest factor is that the quality of the football is the lowest I've ever seen. Most of these games are garbage.
My father was an usher at Yale Bowl (not as a full time job but just for the Giants games as a way to get to see the games) when the Giants played there and my father tells me we are not witnessing anything remotely close to the worst football he's ever seen (of course you and I didn't see that era), but just as a reference, the 70's by and large was worse than now in many regards.
I only say this because when we were talking last week I said the same thing you did and he said "not even close"
I had season tickets for the 1973 Giants Yale Bowl season. Your dad was right they were horrible, but ask him if he didn't mean NY Giant football and not the NFL game itself.
Quote:
but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today.
nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings.
I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings.
If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.
I didn't say that it's impacting the ratings. I said that the owners are much more concerned about that than any reports of diminished ratings and the reasons why.
And again, I too believe that politics has had an impact. Where we disagree is how much of an impact it's had and how much the owners care about it.
Of course we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion too much to not agree to disagree.
Likewise.
I think the owners are now terrified of CTE and rightfully so. Sad it took this long.
And I think the owners to their credit have really tried to connect with the players on the Anthem protest issue. If you read anything from Arthur Blank or Jed York on the meetings last week it's really interesting to see ownership and the players this willing to work together.
I just don't think fans are that willing, sadly. But like others have said, many will have short attention spans.
I know one person in my entire universe who still avoids baseball because of the 1994 strike.
Anyone else pissed off got over it.
I hear ya.
And that's another thing... I think as folks get older they tend not to place so much importance on the games. I remember my dad telling me once he was ok with missing a game in order to go play golf. I was both stunned and appalled by the mere suggestion that ANYTHING, especially golf of all things, could be more important than seeing every single snap of a Giants game. That was over 15 years ago. 15 years later, I find myself not rushing home as fast after church (or leaving service all together) in order to make it home in time for me to only have missed the 1st quarter (my church is about 45 minutes to an hour away from home). And though I, of course, sympathize with the reason for Kaep's protest... I also from the very beginning didn't agree with his method for the EXACT same reason why he's going through what he's going through now and that's because people are not going to sympathize with the REASON for the protest because all they'll want to do is bitch about disrespecting the flag.
What’s your solution Britt? Should the sport be banned? Ex players are sueing the NFL due to concussions/CTE. What is the NFL supposed to do?
Quote:
In comment 13655186 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but I don't know that parents not allowing their kids to play youth football is impacting NFL ratings today.
nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings.
I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings.
If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.
I didn't say that it's impacting the ratings. I said that the owners are much more concerned about that than any reports of diminished ratings and the reasons why.
And again, I too believe that politics has had an impact. Where we disagree is how much of an impact it's had and how much the owners care about it.
Of course we can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion too much to not agree to disagree.
Likewise.
I think the owners are now terrified of CTE and rightfully so. Sad it took this long.
And I think the owners to their credit have really tried to connect with the players on the Anthem protest issue. If you read anything from Arthur Blank or Jed York on the meetings last week it's really interesting to see ownership and the players this willing to work together.
I just don't think fans are that willing, sadly. But like others have said, many will have short attention spans.
I know one person in my entire universe who still avoids baseball because of the 1994 strike.
Anyone else pissed off got over it.
I think so too... but I don't think it's really fair to them to have to get involved. That's part of the reason why I was never one of those who said they were going to protest because Kaep wasn't signed... they've been, IMO, unfairly pulled into a fight that really had nothing to do with them. As I asked a friend of mine who suggested I join their protest against the league for Kaep, if/once he gets signed... exactly what has that done for the purpose of his protest in the first place? What's really changed? Particularly since he said he's no longer kneel himself now.
Quote:
It doesn't bother me, it's the noise it generates after their actions that eats up bandwidth (tho I watch less and less as time goes by).
I hear ya.
And that's another thing... I think as folks get older they tend not to place so much importance on the games. I remember my dad telling me once he was ok with missing a game in order to go play golf. I was both stunned and appalled by the mere suggestion that ANYTHING, especially golf of all things, could be more important than seeing every single snap of a Giants game. That was over 15 years ago. 15 years later, I find myself not rushing home as fast after church (or leaving service all together) in order to make it home in time for me to only have missed the 1st quarter (my church is about 45 minutes to an hour away from home). And though I, of course, sympathize with the reason for Kaep's protest... I also from the very beginning didn't agree with his method for the EXACT same reason why he's going through what he's going through now and that's because people are not going to sympathize with the REASON for the protest because all they'll want to do is bitch about disrespecting the flag.
Oakland is underachieving, SF is atrocious. Therefore the only two long-established franchises in CA have lower than normal ratings.
Chicago is pretty bad too (another big market struggling).
Quote:
In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13655005 JonC said:
You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.
Interesting, so what you are saying is that the people who are offended in a way that you can't relate to should protest in a way that you specify and find more acceptable (a temporary change in channel) because the way they are choosing to currently show their displeasure (not watching) doesn't make sense to you. As someone once said...ah, the irony!
nor do I think former fans who find football barbaric because of the neglect or even denial of pervasiveness and impact of CTE are massive enough as a group to impact ratings.
I do believe the politics has had an impact on ratings.
If you disagree, we can agree to disagree.
I mean, Kap started kneeling last season, so.....
Quote:
but I do believe it's a bigger piece than some want to admit. The majority is rules, diminished level of play, and all the awful humans still allowed to play and make millions. It's a sum of all of that but politics is in there.
and how do you explain the 6% drop in MLB ratings.
*** crickets ***
NFL has definitely taken a hit the last couple of years. We should be glad. Lower ratings means better fan experiences all around.
Have they picked up some least common denominator types? Maybe so. But I believe the hardcore NFL fan has had enough.
PSLs
Commercials
Rules changes
Stadium prices
Stadium behavior (old men being assaulted for asking someone to sit down to see the game)
London
Relocation
Penalties
CTE and the NFLs genuine lack of concern about it
Player conduct
Legislation of player conduct both on and off the field
Game broadcast/presentation
Look at that list of bullshit. Now you're going to add politics to the game? Many people are saying no thanks!
Quote:
In comment 13655138 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13655085 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13655005 JonC said:
You don't like seeing a guy 'disrespect the flag'? Ok... turn the channel during the anthem and then go back to watching your game. Simple. You don't have to be subjected to seeing someone kneel during the anthem (while you're sitting on your couch eating nachos during it... ah, the irony) and you still get to enjoy watching a sport you love to watch.
Interesting, so what you are saying is that the people who are offended in a way that you can't relate to should protest in a way that you specify and find more acceptable (a temporary change in channel) because the way they are choosing to currently show their displeasure (not watching) doesn't make sense to you. As someone once said...ah, the irony!
LOL! Yeah... that's a pretty big stretch ya go going there...
Where did I ever say I couldn't relate? I understand why people are upset with the method of Kaep's protest. I even said that I disagreed with his method (but not it's purpose... which most seem to want to ignore) a few posts ago... you must've missed it during your stretching excersise.
Still stretching. I'm not saying that it's something they SHOULD or MUST do (unlike those who opppose a person's right to silently and non-violently protest injustices they see happening in this country).. I'm only offering another option where they can still be satisfied by not seeing something that bothers them that much (the protests) and still enjoy the ACTUAL reason why they're watching the program in the first game (ya know... the game?). I'm not saying they MUST do this... only offering an option for them. Feel free to offer options that players can silently and non-violently protest the national anthem if you like (like the green beret did after a discussion with Kaep suggesting he kneel instead of sit... which Kaep, out of respect for the military, agreed to do)... I won't hold it against you.
And lastly...
No... it doesn't make sense to me. But this is America... it doesn't have to... everyone is free to do what they want... well... unless it's silently and non-violently protest the treatment of minorities by law enforcement in the country evidently. Again, I don't know what people are expecting the NFL to do about players protesting because it's their right to do so. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state that it's not. If it bothers some so much that they're willing to throw away the enjoyment of not watching their favorite NFL teams play, that's completley up to them. I really could care less. But that's like saying you're going to stop using Dove soap because an employee of the company (not the owner or a high level exec mind you... just a regular run-of-the-mill factory worker) is a white supremacist. Would you stop using Dove if you found out that Billy Bob in the warehouse was a white supremacist? I'm thinking no but maybe you would. Keep in mind as well, this same argument applies to those who've felt that I need to 'Stand with Kaep' and not watch the NFL as well.
Ya dig?
Don't believe me, take a look at voter turnout and get back to me.
My neighbor, nyg fan, about 65 years old said he stopped watching not because the Giants struggled but because of the anthem stuff. He didn't even watch week 2. It's a factor. Other people have told me the same thing.
This is the only correct take on this subject in my view. I don't want to hear who has the right to do what. This is a case of employees of a national and public company using their profession as a soap box. It's wrong.
Quote:
one critical element - Americans are far too apathetic to give up something like football over that in large numbers.
Don't believe me, take a look at voter turnout and get back to me.
My neighbor, nyg fan, about 65 years old said he stopped watching not because the Giants struggled but because of the anthem stuff. He didn't even watch week 2. It's a factor. Other people have told me the same thing.
Semantics, but he's not a factor in this case - these demographics cut off at 49 years old.
Again, I don't care and other than the pig socks by Kap I don't think anyone has been distasteful. But when anyone works for a business, they play by the rules of that business or they find a new job.