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Are instant replays and HD cameras hurting or enhancing

DC Gmen Fan : 10/18/2017 1:27 pm
watchability of sports?

Yes it's great to have so many cool close-up angles and such, and obviously the game benefits when the correct call is made. But sometimes the correct call goes counteractive to the "spirit" of a rule or a play. Case in point - the Jets TD against the Pats. Yes there was some ball movement but was it really that big of a deal where as to take away a TD, give a touchback and affect the outcome of the game?

Why is it that can be reviewed and overturned yet an obvious Pass interference call/no-call cannot be challenged?

How about in baseball? I forget which game it was, I think the Nats game where the Catcher threw a snap pickoff to 1B, and the runner clearly beat the ball back but there was a split second where he was not in contact with the base as he was getting up and was tagged and subsequently out. Though technically a correct call, does it really enhance the spirit of the play?

Now yes there are situations where replay overturns and rectifies obvious miscalls and such. But the question I ask BBI is this: is there value to continuing to allow judgement calls from umps/refs to rule rather than every minute detail of a play as seen by super cameras?

Would leagues ever decide to not use those super close ups to avoid controversial calls and leave it to the officials?


enhancing big time  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 10/18/2017 1:38 pm : link
Just wish rules could be figured out by those who make them...and the quality of play was better.
RE: enhancing big time  
DC Gmen Fan : 10/18/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13655011 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
Just wish rules could be figured out by those who make them...and the quality of play was better.


Those controversial catches in the endzones might not be so controversial without replay looking at every detail. If it looks like a catch to the ref it's a catch and vice versa. Maybe that's why there didn't seem to be these issues years ago before HD cameras and replays came about.
I think they might need to be simplified  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 1:41 pm : link
and taken back to the obvious - something that looked like one thing, that turned out to be something else.

No in-depth analysis of the entire rulebook, or super-slo-mo look to see the exact point when something might have happened. If it's obvious, plain as the nose on your face, then overturn it. If not, let it stand.

In the Yankee game the other night, a play at first resulted in an out on challenge when the ref was standing literally two feet away in the best possible angle to view it. The replay offered little new evidence, and not even the best angle. Somehow, they walked away thinking that they saw enough to overturn the call on the field, which was just ridiculous.
Officiating  
TyreeHelmet : 10/18/2017 1:47 pm : link
This doesn't pertain to instant replay directly, but the games are being over regulated. They have to figure out a way to limit the amount of flags in games. There is zero game flow.

It'd be nice if they skip the announcements of penalties that are definitely be declining. Need to keep the game moving.
it's not helping....  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/18/2017 1:49 pm : link
When do we get to the molecule level of what a possession is or isn't.

.  
arcarsenal : 10/18/2017 1:50 pm : link
I don't think there's any doubt that the benefits are greater than the drawbacks. It's obviously a less-than-perfect system with a lot of flaws, though.

I don't know if it'll ever be ideal - but I'd much rather have it than not.
The problem is how they're used...  
BamaBlue : 10/18/2017 2:31 pm : link
Football should adopt a 'match official' approach, similar to a rugby TMO (Television Match Official). They are told what the call on the field was and they determine if sufficient video evidence is present to OVERRULE the call. They don't verify the call, they only look at evidence to overturn.

The TMO says the call is supported by evidence; the evidence overturns the call; or there is insufficient evidence (this moves the final decision to the field).
HD broadcasts absolutely enhance the viewing  
Section331 : 10/18/2017 2:37 pm : link
experience. Now if you mean by replays the ability to see close-up replays on TV, yes, that is a significant enhancement as well. If you are referring to the replay rule itself, I would argue it is hurting the quality of play. Refs should be held to the 90-second (?) limit in reviewing replays, and MUST pay heed to the call on the field. Too often, they overrule a call when there is little to support it (as with the disallowed Jets TD on Sunday. It may have been the corect interpretation of the rule, but I don't see any chance that there was enough evidence to overrule the TD call.)

That said, I think both are hurting the league. HD makes the home viewing experience much more manageable than going to the game, and fans are frustrated with the inefficiencies of the replay system.
The call in the Nats game was dumb  
AnnapolisMike : 10/18/2017 2:38 pm : link
But for the most part it makes sure the outcome is the correct on in all sports. The NFL has gotten better about it as well. I don't like is as much in Baseball, for the most part the refs are in the right position to make the correct call but they are pretty quick about it and do limit it to 2 challenges.
RE: HD broadcasts absolutely enhance the viewing  
DC Gmen Fan : 10/18/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13655143 Section331 said:
Quote:
experience. Now if you mean by replays the ability to see close-up replays on TV, yes, that is a significant enhancement as well. If you are referring to the replay rule itself, I would argue it is hurting the quality of play. Refs should be held to the 90-second (?) limit in reviewing replays, and MUST pay heed to the call on the field. Too often, they overrule a call when there is little to support it (as with the disallowed Jets TD on Sunday. It may have been the corect interpretation of the rule, but I don't see any chance that there was enough evidence to overrule the TD call.)

That said, I think both are hurting the league. HD makes the home viewing experience much more manageable than going to the game, and fans are frustrated with the inefficiencies of the replay system.




Minus a replay review, would anyone initially have had a problem with the Jets TD? I mean no one even saw anything until the replay.

I think HD and replays add enormously  
Go Terps : 10/18/2017 3:30 pm : link
What detracts is the belief that every step must be taken to ensure that a call is correct down to the millimeter or millisecond. Because at that point what is logical starts to break down, and rules are written stating that Sefarian-Jenkins didn't score a touchdown, or Sterling Shepard didn't catch the ball in Philly.

Personally I'd like to see replay completely taken out of the game. Put it in the hands of the refs. If they get it wrong, so be it. They actually get an enormous amount of shit right, and would probably get better at their jobs if replay weren't a factor.
To clarify...  
Go Terps : 10/18/2017 3:31 pm : link
Showing us replays in HD is great. They add a great deal.

But I would eliminate using it to change calls made by officials.
HD cameras absolutely enhance  
Greg from LI : 10/18/2017 3:34 pm : link
Replay could be OK to fix egregious mistakes, but the problem is that it gets used to pick at minute differences. Personally, I think you could eliminate a lot of the problems if officials were limited to, say, 20 seconds of replay time. If you can't discern a reason to overturn a call in 20 seconds, then the call was close enough that it should stand.
RE: HD cameras absolutely enhance  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13655268 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Replay could be OK to fix egregious mistakes, but the problem is that it gets used to pick at minute differences. Personally, I think you could eliminate a lot of the problems if officials were limited to, say, 20 seconds of replay time. If you can't discern a reason to overturn a call in 20 seconds, then the call was close enough that it should stand.
Interesting. Personally, I think it is the various leagues' handling of replay that is hurting. I'm not sure I would eliminate challenges from coaches, but I certainly wouldn't limit replay reviews to them. Have replay officials whose job it is to call down to the officials to inform them of a review, for example.
I think dedicated review teams would be ideal  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 4:07 pm : link
Don't take away the coach's ability to challenge, but have a replay team that watches the game and buzzes in when a review is necessary. Also, there should be no review done by the on-field refs, it should be done entirely the way the NFL handles the TD/TO situations, where replay officials in an office can quickly turn around a decision.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/18/2017 4:09 pm : link
each league has issues with the way replay is used.

Football is getting to the point where they are splitting hairs on a lot of rulings. It used to be that anything close was considered a TD. Now, they look to try and determine in the slightest of terms if a ball is babbled or a knee touches 1mm before the ball crosses the line. It has gotten ridiculous. Meanwhile, if a ref wants to call PI randomly or doesn't see intentional grounding between the tackles, it can't be reviewed.

Baseball's replay is getting to the point where umps don't give a shit what they call because if they are wrong, replay will fix it.

Hockey has to penalize teams for incorrect challenges because coaches were just throwing shit against a wall hoping it would stick.
Somewhere this offseason, someone needs to have a big boy talk  
jcn56 : 10/18/2017 4:13 pm : link
with the entire officiating organization in the NFL, lock them up in a room somewhere and not let them out until they come up with a simple, reasonable, enforceable set of rules regarding what is and isn't a reception.

I'm tired of watching 5 games every weekend where I watch the same catch repeated in all 5, and called practically 5 different ways.

These rules are a byproduct of years of controversy and complaints, I get that - but at some point the rule book needs an enema.
RE: I think..  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13655314 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
each league has issues with the way replay is used.

Football is getting to the point where they are splitting hairs on a lot of rulings. It used to be that anything close was considered a TD. Now, they look to try and determine in the slightest of terms if a ball is babbled or a knee touches 1mm before the ball crosses the line. It has gotten ridiculous. Meanwhile, if a ref wants to call PI randomly or doesn't see intentional grounding between the tackles, it can't be reviewed.

Baseball's replay is getting to the point where umps don't give a shit what they call because if they are wrong, replay will fix it.

Hockey has to penalize teams for incorrect challenges because coaches were just throwing shit against a wall hoping it would stick.
Football should allow much much more to be reviewed.
RE: I think dedicated review teams would be ideal  
Matt M. : 10/18/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13655311 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Don't take away the coach's ability to challenge, but have a replay team that watches the game and buzzes in when a review is necessary. Also, there should be no review done by the on-field refs, it should be done entirely the way the NFL handles the TD/TO situations, where replay officials in an office can quickly turn around a decision.
Agree 100% about reviews being done by a review team or review official and not the on-field official.
Jcn56  
joeinpa : 10/19/2017 8:55 am : link
Amen
Sick of replay  
Alan in Toledo : 10/19/2017 8:59 am : link
Perfection does not exist and isn't achievable. We all are painfully aware that humans (players & officials) err.

Live with it.
One thing to help with the flow  
Sarcastic Sam : 10/19/2017 9:01 am : link
is that they should allow the point after attempt immediately after a touchdown. The play can be reviewed during the PAT. If the play is overturned, the PAT won't count but if the offense scores during the drive, the results of the PAT will stand.

Otherwise, it's TD!!!!!... pause for replay.... pause for PAT.... commercial break for kickoff.
Not asking for perfection  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/19/2017 9:05 am : link
But in a sixteen game season with so much on the line every week and such a high injury rate, you cannot have games decided on missed calls. You can't afford to miss the big ones or the easy ones.

I would, however, throw away the nonsense rules of "is it a catch or not?"

Ball in hand and two feet down is a catch. Period. None of this "did he have control and perform a football action" BS.
RE: Sick of replay  
arcarsenal : 10/19/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13656013 Alan in Toledo said:
Quote:
Perfection does not exist and isn't achievable. We all are painfully aware that humans (players & officials) err.

Live with it.


This is easy to say until a blown call directly results in a loss in a really important game.

Replay is necessary.

But it also isn't a perfect system and still needs some tweaking.
no doubt in my mind enhancing  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/19/2017 10:55 am : link
plays go so fast and upon review, you get to really savor the spectacular stuff

regarding replay -- it's the right idea - but there do seem to be mind-boggling inconsistencies sometimes in the way they call things -- wish they could get their acts together
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