The kids need to buy into that, even when facing the fear of being embarrassed by fast breaks by star studded teams, those happen, may have to let them happen at times.
It would appear to be two games, when we grab a turn over, style A, and the more half court game, style B.
Lacking our turnover, it seems like young players get sucked into running back against scary teams and leave points unscored, things devolve, get wild, and that's not a great match up yet.
"kids"? Frank nor Willy really played and neither played at all when the game was somewhat close early. Not being snarky but when the game was "competitive" early the players on the court were Ramon Sessions, Hardaway, Lee, KOQ and KP. It's one game. So I'm not going to go bonkers but lets not look for positives that weren't there. KP was fantastic everyone else was either "mediocre", garbage or hot garbage. The "kids" didn't play.
game managed to be worse than anyone could have expected. Not the outcome (expected) but the lack of PT for Willy/Frank and the lack of good performances. Outside of KP getting hurt and or playing poorly it would be hard to script a worse game.
Bring in Baker, immediately start loosing turnovers, bring in Thomas, start loosing rebounds.
The Knicks have some good, athletic pieces that will fit fairly well once one decides not to play those types of guys...Nili getting up to speed will be huge.
"kids"? Frank nor Willy really played and neither played at all when the game was somewhat close early. Not being snarky but when the game was "competitive" early the players on the court were Ramon Sessions, Hardaway, Lee, KOQ and KP. It's one game. So I'm not going to go bonkers but lets not look for positives that weren't there. KP was fantastic everyone else was either "mediocre", garbage or hot garbage. The "kids" didn't play.
which is a different problem, and one that falls om hornacek...
perry and mills when they decided to go with a youth movement should of sat hornacek down and said you play the young guys...
not looking to single out Kanter (because the team is awful) but I have a very hard time believing his weight was what held him back defensively. He seems confused on defense, doesn't even defend entry passes and seems mentally to be a tick slow in reacting. I'd 100% love to be proven wrong.
RE: RE: RE: RE: My sentiment remains the same as it was before the game Â
it is shit but they are finally rebuilding right way, i can deal with losing if they contonue to do it the roght way
it remains to be seen if they're going to rebuild the right way. Most, if not all, of the moves they made this summer indicate otherwise.
not really, thjr has improved and is under 25, he gets to what he did in preseason you got a good yoing player...
for kanter and mcdermotts warts they are both only 25 and both could be free agents..
they got a high 2nd
beasley is 28 on a 1 year vet contract..
sessions is here for 1 year as a placeholder..
jack will be gone in 11 games...
what move says they are trying to win now?
I didn't say they're trying to win now - I said they're not rebuilding the right way. If the Hardaway contract was such a sound investment, Atlanta would have matched. A guy like Beasley has no business on this team - I don't care how old he is or what his contract is. Saying Kanter/McDermott can be free agents only proves my point. Instead of prioritizing controllable pieces for Melo they brought in these two guys. Kanter clogs the frontcourt and is likely opting in next summer, thereby reducing cap space. If McDermott plays well, you get to pay him next summer or lose him for nothing! Yeah! An intelligent rebuild prioritizes assets, flexibility, cap space, etc. Instead, we have a team president who saw fit to give Ron Baker 2/10 with a player option.
be positive, OKC has savvy proven all star types Â
once our guys got off their game, it was easy pickings.
That said, keep the duds out and Knicks can find a 'Knicks style' that works. One hopes that coach, like coach here at NYG, was not under pressure to play duds like Baker and Thomas.
Sessions is a bit of a dud also. Not worried, though, I don't think they planned to loose a player early.
and according to hornacek it was because of preseason Â
yeah the optics on Baker were not good. Very, very sloppy for such a mediocre player. That said I think Baker should only be the primary ball handler when necessary, that's on Hornacek.
RE: and according to hornacek it was because of preseason Â
anyone who watched preseason and said oquinn played better than willy is a moron
and how does Willy improve his defense/defensive effort without playing? If the Knicks have ANYTHING of value this year it's the ability to really get a look at players and cycle through them.
RE: RE: and according to hornacek it was because of preseason Â
anyone who watched preseason and said oquinn played better than willy is a moron
and how does Willy improve his defense/defensive effort without playing? If the Knicks have ANYTHING of value this year it's the ability to really get a look at players and cycle through them.
agree 100%, willy was 1st team all rookie last year and now he is not playing?
Hornacek was so disappointed in Willy's defense in pre-season that he didn't make ANY mention of it until after the game last night? Again, if Frank does XYZ poorly I guess we will bench him?
Hornacek was so disappointed in Willy's defense in pre-season that he didn't make ANY mention of it until after the game last night? Again, if Frank does XYZ poorly I guess we will bench him?
i was ok with losing if the young guys were playing...
but if hornacek is going to play sessions, baker, oquinn and lance thomas and the team is going to lose by 20 every night i cant watch that shit...
and dont think what happened to melo wont be in the back of kps mind when that time comes
a new kind of losing for us. The post Checketts teams were mediocre but still had enough vet talent to be somewhat competitive, albeit in a weaker overall league. The early Walsh teams sucked, but they were very entertaining thanks to what Isiah left behind (Crawford, Lee, Nate, etc.) The recent bad teams still had Melo who could at least get his own shot and was more of a safety net than people realize. We know they're going to be bad on defense but the offense could be a tire fire as well thanks to the horrid PG situation. This is going to be ugly.
when they had a beef with Hornacek, because they're fucking lunatics anyway. Now we know Hornacek is an issue, too. KP wasn't happy with him last year, and Willy can't be happy with him now. And can anyone take a stab at the offense we were running last night?
and yea, the tank might be on, but let's remember that OKC is a likely top 3 team and the Knicks were on the road at OKC's home opener. You can't underestimate just how bad most of these east teams are. I'll believe they are a real contender for the #1-#3 lottery seeds after they lose games to teams like Charlotte and Detroit and look bad.
JFC is this going to be the daily refrain around here? You guys realize that one game in year one is not ample time to close the book on a player's career?
Christ...you guys live to be miserable. One game fuckos. One. Send DSJ to the HOF and Frank to the CBA!!
I don't like Horn either but you might want to give the guy more than one game before you decapitate him and his Knicks coaching career simply because Gomez didn't play enough minutes.
they are going to suck massive balls this season. We knew that and kind of want that. Gomez will play sooner than later. If he doesn't, it probably means he sucks balls worse than Kanter sucks balls. I highly doubt Gomez is undeserving of sitting due to a lack of defensive awareness. The guy's a mess on D.
they are going to suck massive balls this season. We knew that and kind of want that. Gomez will play sooner than later. If he doesn't, it probably means he sucks balls worse than Kanter sucks balls. I highly doubt Gomez is undeserving of sitting due to a lack of defensive awareness. The guy's a mess on D.
Kanter's a mess on D as well. Willy not playing was fucking stupid.
they are going to suck massive balls this season. We knew that and kind of want that. Gomez will play sooner than later. If he doesn't, it probably means he sucks balls worse than Kanter sucks balls. I highly doubt Gomez is undeserving of sitting due to a lack of defensive awareness. The guy's a mess on D.
Kanter's a mess on D as well. Willy not playing was fucking stupid.
Like I said, it's a very young player and we're talking ONE game here. Can Horn send a message or is that not how we want him to coach? One game...if Gomez isn't playing all year long then I will kill him. He's going to play. Bet on it.
Bravo to Hornacek. This isn’t just about playing the young guys. As much bad can come from playing as it can good. Its about setting a culture, if Hernangomez is lacking with his effort on Defense, then he hasnt earned playing and this would only develop worse over time. This is a chance to set a new culture. If Hernangomez can learn to put equal effort on Defense now, he may develop into a real player over time.
Kanter is an experienced veteran who is a much better offensive player. He isnt being handed a job and playing time due to his age alone.
Eh... I might go with this if I didn't see Kanter fall asleep on a non-existent pick and roll while Adams cut to the basket for the easiest alley-oop of the game. Add in his team high turnovers from when he thought he was Hakeem Olajuwon dribbling and spinning around the basket and we see that whatever lessons they're trying to teach Willy can be applied to the starter too.
and yea, the tank might be on, but let's remember that OKC is a likely top 3 team and the Knicks were on the road at OKC's home opener. You can't underestimate just how bad most of these east teams are. I'll believe they are a real contender for the #1-#3 lottery seeds after they lose games to teams like Charlotte and Detroit and look bad.
? Charlotte is a borderline playoff team. The Knicks “should” lose to them. On paper they are the clear superior team. They won 36 games and added Howard.
you can't keep credibility as a coach when you.... Â
from Hornacek is code for "we want to showcase Kanter so we can trade him". Although, by now the whole league knows what he is so it really shouldn't make much of a difference.
what it's worth 538 projects the Knicks to win 30 games, Charlotte 44, Detroit 36.
How is that even possible in today's game when you need a PG (outside of Milwaukee) to win and the Knicks have the absolute worst PG situation in the sport by a mile? (It's depressing as a Knicks fan that the team with the 2nd worst PG situation is starting Jerian Grant.) I don't foresee any way 7 teams have worse records than the Knicks. For that to happen, KP would have to turn into peak Dirk already and even more importantly, Hornacek would have to turn into Rick Carlisle.
from Hornacek is code for "we want to showcase Kanter so we can trade him". Although, by now the whole league knows what he is so it really shouldn't make much of a difference.
What's a realistic return for a guy who will opt out?
I'm not sure I get why everyone's got such strong feelings Â
from Hornacek is code for "we want to showcase Kanter so we can trade him". Although, by now the whole league knows what he is so it really shouldn't make much of a difference.
What's a realistic return for a guy who will opt out?
people that cover the league don't think he's opting out.
About last night. People seem almost as pissed as when Hardaway accidentally won them a game a few years ago.
There's only 3 players anyone gives a shit about on the roster (sorry Damyean) and most of us don't expect to see Frank playing 30 (or even 20) minutes a night right away. So when Willy gets 4 minutes, this shit becomes even more difficult to watch. The Enes Kantor trade value thing is legitimate, but KOQ too?
Jack at PG with Frank as the backup and see if we can reduce the turnovers. Sessions and Baker had a hard time with pressure and some of the pressure was Fat Ray. Couldn't hurt.
Sessions is the most worthless PG in NBA history Â
for blasting anything Knicks related, especially the PG but it's so early to be blasting Frank and praising DSJ. Guy I work with is relentless on this thing too....
I can't get angry this early it's pointless.
RE: you can't keep credibility as a coach when you.... Â
A)Bench Willy for his weak defense.
B)Start Enes Kanter and play him for 30 minutes.
I don't buy that. You can bench a young player anytime no matter who is in front of him if the team sucks anyway and you're trying to send a message.
Like I said I will kill Horn if this continues but it's one game. Kanter might even be worse right now than Gomez but Gomez is still young enough to mold. Kanter is what he is.
About last night. People seem almost as pissed as when Hardaway accidentally won them a game a few years ago.
There's only 3 players anyone gives a shit about on the roster (sorry Damyean) and most of us don't expect to see Frank playing 30 (or even 20) minutes a night right away. So when Willy gets 4 minutes, this shit becomes even more difficult to watch. The Enes Kantor trade value thing is legitimate, but KOQ too?
Why wouldn't O'Quinn be considered a trade chip? He's very likely the most tradeable thing they have left.
Anyway, it's basketball. Coaches use the first two weeks to figure out their best personnel groups. They were never going to play just one lineup of all the kids for all 82 games.
RE: RE: Frank Ntkilina is not physically ready to play Â
Hopefully he's just here long enough to be dealt off for an extra pick at some point.
Lance Thomas is a dud, seems to lag behind the action. Sessions is a meh.
Game seemed fairly competitive before they put Thomas and Baker in.
Seems like Kanter will come around once things start to sync.
Gotta get Nili ready asap.
Quote:
In comment 13657115 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Oh great, another year of this shit.
it is shit but they are finally rebuilding right way, i can deal with losing if they contonue to do it the roght way
it remains to be seen if they're going to rebuild the right way. Most, if not all, of the moves they made this summer indicate otherwise.
not really, thjr has improved and is under 25, he gets to what he did in preseason you got a good yoing player...
for kanter and mcdermotts warts they are both only 25 and both could be free agents..
they got a high 2nd
beasley is 28 on a 1 year vet contract..
sessions is here for 1 year as a placeholder..
jack will be gone in 11 games...
what move says they are trying to win now?
boggles my mind..
The kids need to buy into that, even when facing the fear of being embarrassed by fast breaks by star studded teams, those happen, may have to let them happen at times.
It would appear to be two games, when we grab a turn over, style A, and the more half court game, style B.
Lacking our turnover, it seems like young players get sucked into running back against scary teams and leave points unscored, things devolve, get wild, and that's not a great match up yet.
Bring in Baker, immediately start loosing turnovers, bring in Thomas, start loosing rebounds.
The Knicks have some good, athletic pieces that will fit fairly well once one decides not to play those types of guys...Nili getting up to speed will be huge.
which is a different problem, and one that falls om hornacek...
perry and mills when they decided to go with a youth movement should of sat hornacek down and said you play the young guys...
willy getting no minutes is absolute bullshit
Quote:
In comment 13657122 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13657115 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Oh great, another year of this shit.
it is shit but they are finally rebuilding right way, i can deal with losing if they contonue to do it the roght way
it remains to be seen if they're going to rebuild the right way. Most, if not all, of the moves they made this summer indicate otherwise.
not really, thjr has improved and is under 25, he gets to what he did in preseason you got a good yoing player...
for kanter and mcdermotts warts they are both only 25 and both could be free agents..
they got a high 2nd
beasley is 28 on a 1 year vet contract..
sessions is here for 1 year as a placeholder..
jack will be gone in 11 games...
what move says they are trying to win now?
I didn't say they're trying to win now - I said they're not rebuilding the right way. If the Hardaway contract was such a sound investment, Atlanta would have matched. A guy like Beasley has no business on this team - I don't care how old he is or what his contract is. Saying Kanter/McDermott can be free agents only proves my point. Instead of prioritizing controllable pieces for Melo they brought in these two guys. Kanter clogs the frontcourt and is likely opting in next summer, thereby reducing cap space. If McDermott plays well, you get to pay him next summer or lose him for nothing! Yeah! An intelligent rebuild prioritizes assets, flexibility, cap space, etc. Instead, we have a team president who saw fit to give Ron Baker 2/10 with a player option.
That said, keep the duds out and Knicks can find a 'Knicks style' that works. One hopes that coach, like coach here at NYG, was not under pressure to play duds like Baker and Thomas.
Sessions is a bit of a dud also. Not worried, though, I don't think they planned to loose a player early.
and how does Willy improve his defense/defensive effort without playing? If the Knicks have ANYTHING of value this year it's the ability to really get a look at players and cycle through them.
Quote:
anyone who watched preseason and said oquinn played better than willy is a moron
and how does Willy improve his defense/defensive effort without playing? If the Knicks have ANYTHING of value this year it's the ability to really get a look at players and cycle through them.
agree 100%, willy was 1st team all rookie last year and now he is not playing?
i was ok with losing if the young guys were playing...
but if hornacek is going to play sessions, baker, oquinn and lance thomas and the team is going to lose by 20 every night i cant watch that shit...
and dont think what happened to melo wont be in the back of kps mind when that time comes
JFC is this going to be the daily refrain around here? You guys realize that one game in year one is not ample time to close the book on a player's career?
Christ...you guys live to be miserable. One game fuckos. One. Send DSJ to the HOF and Frank to the CBA!!
I don't like Horn either but you might want to give the guy more than one game before you decapitate him and his Knicks coaching career simply because Gomez didn't play enough minutes.
And he seemed to take Pee Wee Herman steps every time he had the ball in the paint, did not get called every time.
Kanter's a mess on D as well. Willy not playing was fucking stupid.
Quote:
they are going to suck massive balls this season. We knew that and kind of want that. Gomez will play sooner than later. If he doesn't, it probably means he sucks balls worse than Kanter sucks balls. I highly doubt Gomez is undeserving of sitting due to a lack of defensive awareness. The guy's a mess on D.
Kanter's a mess on D as well. Willy not playing was fucking stupid.
Like I said, it's a very young player and we're talking ONE game here. Can Horn send a message or is that not how we want him to coach? One game...if Gomez isn't playing all year long then I will kill him. He's going to play. Bet on it.
GiantsUA : 11:29 am : link : reply
I thought he got pushed around big time.
And he seemed to take Pee Wee Herman steps every time he had the ball in the paint, did not get called every time.''
Center - O-Quin or Willy
Power Forward - Kanter
Shooting Guard - Porzingas
Guard - Hardaway
Guard - Lee
This gives you lots of flexibility on D, such as OKC showed last night the ability to move people around on D, very flexibly in close to the basket.
Bravo to Hornacek. This isn’t just about playing the young guys. As much bad can come from playing as it can good. Its about setting a culture, if Hernangomez is lacking with his effort on Defense, then he hasnt earned playing and this would only develop worse over time. This is a chance to set a new culture. If Hernangomez can learn to put equal effort on Defense now, he may develop into a real player over time.
Kanter is an experienced veteran who is a much better offensive player. He isnt being handed a job and playing time due to his age alone.
Eh... I might go with this if I didn't see Kanter fall asleep on a non-existent pick and roll while Adams cut to the basket for the easiest alley-oop of the game. Add in his team high turnovers from when he thought he was Hakeem Olajuwon dribbling and spinning around the basket and we see that whatever lessons they're trying to teach Willy can be applied to the starter too.
That's just an obvious fact.
Best he can get in early part of season is spot minutes, like 10-15
I would have thought is 2 air balls showed that
? Charlotte is a borderline playoff team. The Knicks “should” lose to them. On paper they are the clear superior team. They won 36 games and added Howard.
B)Start Enes Kanter and play him for 30 minutes.
How is that even possible in today's game when you need a PG (outside of Milwaukee) to win and the Knicks have the absolute worst PG situation in the sport by a mile? (It's depressing as a Knicks fan that the team with the 2nd worst PG situation is starting Jerian Grant.) I don't foresee any way 7 teams have worse records than the Knicks. For that to happen, KP would have to turn into peak Dirk already and even more importantly, Hornacek would have to turn into Rick Carlisle.
What's a realistic return for a guy who will opt out?
Quote:
from Hornacek is code for "we want to showcase Kanter so we can trade him". Although, by now the whole league knows what he is so it really shouldn't make much of a difference.
What's a realistic return for a guy who will opt out?
people that cover the league don't think he's opting out.
There's only 3 players anyone gives a shit about on the roster (sorry Damyean) and most of us don't expect to see Frank playing 30 (or even 20) minutes a night right away. So when Willy gets 4 minutes, this shit becomes even more difficult to watch. The Enes Kantor trade value thing is legitimate, but KOQ too?
I can't get angry this early it's pointless.
B)Start Enes Kanter and play him for 30 minutes.
I don't buy that. You can bench a young player anytime no matter who is in front of him if the team sucks anyway and you're trying to send a message.
Like I said I will kill Horn if this continues but it's one game. Kanter might even be worse right now than Gomez but Gomez is still young enough to mold. Kanter is what he is.
An unfortunate I told you so. Not physically ready to play. That was quick
In comment 13657319 twostepgiants said:
That's just an obvious fact.
Best he can get in early part of season is spot minutes, like 10-15
I would have thought is 2 air balls showed that
Quote:
About last night. People seem almost as pissed as when Hardaway accidentally won them a game a few years ago.
There's only 3 players anyone gives a shit about on the roster (sorry Damyean) and most of us don't expect to see Frank playing 30 (or even 20) minutes a night right away. So when Willy gets 4 minutes, this shit becomes even more difficult to watch. The Enes Kantor trade value thing is legitimate, but KOQ too?
Why wouldn't O'Quinn be considered a trade chip? He's very likely the most tradeable thing they have left.
Anyway, it's basketball. Coaches use the first two weeks to figure out their best personnel groups. They were never going to play just one lineup of all the kids for all 82 games.
An unfortunate I told you so. Not physically ready to play. That was quick
He rolls is ankle on Willy's foot and he's not physically able to play yet? Can't make this shit up folks lol.