Things have come together, no matter how you look at it, the the Giants have to look at the trade deadline on 10/31, Halloween, as an opportunity to get better for 2018. Years ago, there were no trades in the NFL. While hardly baseball, we've seen more trades the past few years than you would expect.
Losing to Seattle, going to 1-6, with 5 losses to NFC teams, it's time to stop kidding anyone that the Giants are a playoff team and get ready for next year. As it turns out, having a bye this week could well work in their favor, assuming the front office and coaches do the right thing. That is simply this: They should evaluate this team during the next few days, set up a plan to see who will be here or will be in position to compete for a job next year, and if you aren't on that list, actively try to trade them for whatever you can get. They already are down 1 pick for Cockrell, they need a new infusion of talent.
If I'm Reese, I'm calling every GM and saying this "No one is untouchable on this roster, make me an offer". Now to be clear, this doesn't mean a fire sale. You can't have Landon Collins for a 6th rounder. And in some cases, injuries have made guys undesirable anyway- ie, Marshall and Harris. But still, let teams come to the Giants with offers, at worst you say no.
There are a few guys who the Giants should trade, even if it's 10 cents on the dollar. And in the right situation, these guys will have value for a contending team. DRC is first on the list. The Giants were talking about trading him last off-season. In hindsight, they should have done it. His value was at an all time high after a great 2016. He can still play and I'd think a team would want another cover corner, who when properly motivated is a good player. He's done with the Giants. As the losses pile up, odds are he will either check out or go down with some injury. DRC's value should be a 3rd or 4th rounder. They won't get that, but try to get a 5th for him.
Casillas is a nice, veteran LB. Has won a couple of rings. Assuming his neck checks out, I wouldn't mind dealing him for a later round pick too.
Strangely, Geno Smith might have some value. He's been a starter. Teams are losing starting QBs again. The Giants need to bump Webb up the list. Hell, get a 7th for Geno and recoup the Cockrell pick.
And like I said, everyone is available. If the right deal comes along that makes sense, pull the trigger. Do they get bold on someone like JPP if a high pick is on the table? Take advantage of the bye week, take advantage of the awful record and realize that they aren't going 10-6. This is a lost season. Try to at the very least put the team in position to get better in 2018 while they can.
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
But why keep a DRC on the roster when he's not going to be here next year? If you know you aren't going to bring someone back in 2018, try to get something for him. I'm not saying trade Engram or Collins, let alone Odell.
Quote:
the difference between success and failure is so small. The difference between our roster and the Eagles roster is probably a left tackle. And people on here are tripping all over themselves to crown the Eagles the best team in football. I would not make any big changes other than if the right QB is available and the Giants love him, then we are obligated to take him given Eli’s age. Outside of that, this team can compete next year with OL help and coaching changes.
But why keep a DRC on the roster when he's not going to be here next year? If you know you aren't going to bring someone back in 2018, try to get something for him. I'm not saying trade Engram or Collins, let alone Odell.
I don’t mind trading DRC, but you said “everyone” is available and I think we should not be in rebuilding mode but more in a mode of transition to compete next year with the right upgrades. Again, I go back to the Eagles there roster after a bad year last year is basically set up for this season, maybe next year.
Quote:
In comment 13661022 Essex said:
Quote:
the difference between success and failure is so small. The difference between our roster and the Eagles roster is probably a left tackle. And people on here are tripping all over themselves to crown the Eagles the best team in football. I would not make any big changes other than if the right QB is available and the Giants love him, then we are obligated to take him given Eli’s age. Outside of that, this team can compete next year with OL help and coaching changes.
But why keep a DRC on the roster when he's not going to be here next year? If you know you aren't going to bring someone back in 2018, try to get something for him. I'm not saying trade Engram or Collins, let alone Odell.
I don’t mind trading DRC, but you said “everyone” is available and I think we should not be in rebuilding mode but more in a mode of transition to compete next year with the right upgrades. Again, I go back to the Eagles there roster after a bad year last year is basically set up for this season, maybe next year.
I said everyone because you never know what kind of an offer you'd get back. What if someone offers a first rounder for Vernon? Do you take it? You'll never know unless you put it on the table. Odds are things will work out that it will only be about 3 guys who the Giants will seriously entertain.
If we got anything more than a conditional 7th I would be shocked.
To paraphrase Animal Farm, everyone is available, but some are more available than others. You want Landon Collins? 2 first round picks. Not interested in that, ok, bye. As I said, it odds are it will work out to a handful of guys being sold for 20 cents on the dollar. But for a real value guy, the price tag will be so high that it wouldn't happen anyway. As I mentioned, I'm curious what Pugh would get.
-Full house cleaning which includes Reese.
-Complete coaching overhaul with Reese retained.
It looks like Sean Payton has been rejuvenated with the Saints & I don’t think they would go in that direction. You once mentioned Mike Sullivan as HC which I think the Giants would do but they could never sell that to the fanbase. John Fox maybe?
Quote:
Nothing. Will happen. They will go into draft next year. They will not acquire more picks by trading down. No one will get fired. Book it. They will take best player available in their incompetent eyes. Rinse, repeat. Suck.
Unfortunately, I agree with you.
+2. DRC has some trade value, but not Casillas or Smith. And show me where Reese has ever done anything but waste day three picks.
-Full house cleaning which includes Reese.
-Complete coaching overhaul with Reese retained.
It looks like Sean Payton has been rejuvenated with the Saints & I don’t think they would go in that direction. You once mentioned Mike Sullivan as HC which I think the Giants would do but they could never sell that to the fanbase. John Fox maybe?
Honestly, I think they won't do anything. I think the Chargers game will end up being a "get out of jail free card" for both guys. They lost an entire unit, including their best player in one game in Week 5. I think ownership will look at that situation and say that its unfair to judge them when the NFL is a passing league and you lose all your receivers and replace them with, essentially, a bunch of UDFAs mid season.
That said, the problem is that if Reese goes, you want your GM to pick the coach. That's the rule for most good franchises. You don't want a lame duck McAdoo there for one season and then move on in 2019. If you do this, you rip off the bandaid all the way.
McAdoo is right now in Jim Fassel and Ray Handley territory however. You have to realize that in their final season, both guys had their team still in contention by mid season. Handley was 5-4 in Week 9. He lost LT, and then lost Hostetler, the Giants would drop 5 of their last 6 games which forced Mara's hand to fire him. Fassel was 4-4 in 2003 after an OT win over the Jets. And then they got blown out at home 27-7 by the immortal Kurt Kittner and the Falcons. They would drop their final 8 games, in 7 of those games they didn't score more than 13 points. And in fact, 5 of those were less than 10 points, when the Giants asked Jesse Palmer to play QB.
Point being, even the injury excuse doesn't help if the front office feels the coach has lost the team. If the Giants play more games like yesterday, with a high school offense and lopsided scores, and more players start to fade away with injuries and they are not competitive. I think they will have no choice but to clean house. As for who they would target? No idea. The past has been to get a guy with Giants ties. However, the reality is, Coughlin didn't do much in the way of putting together a coaching tree when he was here and he was here a very long time. I don't see Sullivan as an answer. At the end of the day, the last half of this season I think will tell us if the Giants clean house or chalk it up as a bad year with injuries.
The only trade bait I see is Richburg, Geno ( as you mentioned all the QB injuries ) and DRC.
I would be shocked if Vernon or JPP were traded with the value Reese puts on DE's.
1.
2.
3.
seriously, don't know. Only in-season trade that comes to mind is Beason, when the Giants were 0 - 5 or 1 - 5 and the Giants were buyers (cheap price, but buyers nonetheless).
Also, for reference, the NFL averages 1.5 trades per deadline per year (across all teams) since 1989 and the Herschel Walker debacle.
what we fans think should be done, and what's realistically going to be done are not aligned.
Quote:
In comment 13661022 Essex said:
Quote:
the difference between success and failure is so small. The difference between our roster and the Eagles roster is probably a left tackle. And people on here are tripping all over themselves to crown the Eagles the best team in football. I would not make any big changes other than if the right QB is available and the Giants love him, then we are obligated to take him given Eli’s age. Outside of that, this team can compete next year with OL help and coaching changes.
But why keep a DRC on the roster when he's not going to be here next year? If you know you aren't going to bring someone back in 2018, try to get something for him. I'm not saying trade Engram or Collins, let alone Odell.
I don’t mind trading DRC, but you said “everyone” is available and I think we should not be in rebuilding mode but more in a mode of transition to compete next year with the right upgrades. Again, I go back to the Eagles there roster after a bad year last year is basically set up for this season, maybe next year.
No offense but what he said was nobody is untouchable. Meaning we will hear offers for anyone. That doesn't mean you take it. BUt, if you are not selling your house but someone came to you and offered you 1.5's its market value would you not listen and possibly take the deal? If someone called and said we need a DE very badly (Houston???) and we are willing to take on JPP's contract and give you a 1st rd pick and a later round pick for him, how can you say no to that? We are going nowhere.. The draft alone, with our current number of picks will not be enough...
Rjanyg : 9:44 am : link : reply
I don't think Pugh is going anywhere. Bobby Hart played so bad yesterday which in my mind has put Pugh an offseason priority. He should play tackle, right or left.
The only trade bait I see is Richburg, Geno ( as you mentioned all the QB injuries ) and DRC.
I would be shocked if Vernon or JPP were traded with the value Reese puts on DE's.
I think Pugh was playing himself into a new contract. But let's face it, the knock on him has never been talent. The only time he's played all 16 games was his rookie year. If he misses significant time, that will be two years in a row with the injury bug. Can't invest top dollars into a player like that
And unfortunately, the giants don't save any money trading JPP. In fact, they'll eat a 5 million dollar cap hit. Gonna have a hard time finding a team that will want him at that contract
If we got anything more than a conditional 7th I would be shocked.
Lmao do you know why he suspended? He was suspended for wanting to go back in the game when the staff told him to sit down.
I don't expect much in return assets to be offered for anyone we might like to move, but DRC is gone, I'd listen on JPP, Vernon, Pugh, and try to move some contracts that aren't remotely matching production.
This team is lacking something in the football IQ, maturity, and being ready to play focused, crisp football dept. Too much showboating, mouth running, and absolute inept performances to ignore!
DRC could and should definitely be moved but I don't know if it's in the FOs best interest to do so.
So would Mara come out and admit the season is over and start jettisoning players? How could he while he keeps Reese and McAdoo? You can't start selling off while claiming to be waiting on your evaluation of Reese and McAdoo until the end of the season. If Mara is ready to tear it down, then he needs to do it in conjunction with firing Reese and McAdoo and that simply isn't how the Giants operate.
Expect platitudes aplenty, fringe roster moves, and weeks of languishing in the here and now.
Good one, absolutely on Vereen.
plus a FB on the roster not to mention Brandon Bolden, who is probably better than Vereen (specials at least).
So sure, with their 6 RB's on the active roster the Patriots make a perfect landing spot for Vereen.
I think the Giants should trade anyone and everyone they can. If anyone would take the Vernon and/or JPP horrendous contracts, that would be incredible.
Have you been a fan of this team for longer than 15 years? The Giants do make changes. Ok they haven't cleaned house the last 10 years but you make it sound like the Giants refuse to fire someone. Just not true.
I think the Giants should trade anyone and everyone they can. If anyone would take the Vernon and/or JPP horrendous contracts, that would be incredible.
With the amount they'd likely have to eat on the cap, they'd probably have to restructure and/extend a ridiculous number of players to even try to trade Vernon and/or JPP right now, inside this season.
I'm someone who normally brushes off cap talk, but the NFL makes these in-season deals really tough to pull off for most teams, at least when mega-contracts are involved.
Quote:
Not to get off topic here, but you have a good read on the Giants. What do you think they do at seasons end?
-Full house cleaning which includes Reese.
-Complete coaching overhaul with Reese retained.
It looks like Sean Payton has been rejuvenated with the Saints & I don’t think they would go in that direction. You once mentioned Mike Sullivan as HC which I think the Giants would do but they could never sell that to the fanbase. John Fox maybe?
Honestly, I think they won't do anything. I think the Chargers game will end up being a "get out of jail free card" for both guys. They lost an entire unit, including their best player in one game in Week 5. I think ownership will look at that situation and say that its unfair to judge them when the NFL is a passing league and you lose all your receivers and replace them with, essentially, a bunch of UDFAs mid season.
That said, the problem is that if Reese goes, you want your GM to pick the coach. That's the rule for most good franchises. You don't want a lame duck McAdoo there for one season and then move on in 2019. If you do this, you rip off the bandaid all the way.
McAdoo is right now in Jim Fassel and Ray Handley territory however. You have to realize that in their final season, both guys had their team still in contention by mid season. Handley was 5-4 in Week 9. He lost LT, and then lost Hostetler, the Giants would drop 5 of their last 6 games which forced Mara's hand to fire him. Fassel was 4-4 in 2003 after an OT win over the Jets. And then they got blown out at home 27-7 by the immortal Kurt Kittner and the Falcons. They would drop their final 8 games, in 7 of those games they didn't score more than 13 points. And in fact, 5 of those were less than 10 points, when the Giants asked Jesse Palmer to play QB.
Point being, even the injury excuse doesn't help if the front office feels the coach has lost the team. If the Giants play more games like yesterday, with a high school offense and lopsided scores, and more players start to fade away with injuries and they are not competitive. I think they will have no choice but to clean house. As for who they would target? No idea. The past has been to get a guy with Giants ties. However, the reality is, Coughlin didn't do much in the way of putting together a coaching tree when he was here and he was here a very long time. I don't see Sullivan as an answer. At the end of the day, the last half of this season I think will tell us if the Giants clean house or chalk it up as a bad year with injuries.
Agreed that the remainder of the season will be crucial, but think about the expectations.
A get out of jail free card is going 7-9 & missing the playoffs when the expectations were 10 plus wins due to injuries.
I think 5-11 at best is what we are looking at, possibly 3-13 bad. You don’t chalk that up to injuries.
you left out the QB position, Carson Wentz has it all over Eli, Wentz can make all the throws and has a big arm, he can run very well to extend plays, in short he has it all over Eli....
Quote:
In comment 13661022 Essex said:
Quote:
the difference between success and failure is so small. The difference between our roster and the Eagles roster is probably a left tackle. And people on here are tripping all over themselves to crown the Eagles the best team in football. I would not make any big changes other than if the right QB is available and the Giants love him, then we are obligated to take him given Eli’s age. Outside of that, this team can compete next year with OL help and coaching changes.
But why keep a DRC on the roster when he's not going to be here next year? If you know you aren't going to bring someone back in 2018, try to get something for him. I'm not saying trade Engram or Collins, let alone Odell.
I don’t mind trading DRC, but you said “everyone” is available and I think we should not be in rebuilding mode but more in a mode of transition to compete next year with the right upgrades. Again, I go back to the Eagles there roster after a bad year last year is basically set up for this season, maybe next year.
what the Eagles accomplished from last year to this year requires a solid GM and that puts the problem out of Reese's domain.......
It's not a Giant issue. It's the way the league works.