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How the Reese Giants Got to the failed 2017 Season (long)

Emil : 10/25/2017 6:56 pm
I am never the one to play Chicken Little and yell the sky is falling, and in truth I will never permit myself to fully adopt that attitude. However, if you step back and look at Jerry Reese’s tenure as GM, the reality is staring you in the face. Of course, you cannot remove the 2007 and 2011 Championship seasons, but the reality remains this franchise has won zero playoff games since 2011, and only has a total of four playoff appearances in 10 years (Let me reiterate, in 10 years!) with only one playoff appearance in the last 6 years. In comparison, Ernie Accorsi presided over a playoff team 4 times in an 8 year period, with one Super Bowl appearance. Of course, he deserves a lot of the credit for the 2007 team.

Clearly, not only is the tenure of Jerry Reese not up to the standard of one of the “Flagship Franchises” of the National Football League, but the last six years have been a disaster. Count me as one of those who think that Reese had more cause for termination than Coughlin (not that Coughlin was blameless) and drafting OBJ pretty much saved him at the time. I’m sure I am oversimplifying things, but that’s the basic gist. Bottom line, this organization is 88-72 from 2007-20016, and 39-41 from 2012-2016. Frankly that is just not good enough. If you anticipate this season ending no better than the historically bad 3-13, which is highly likely, then those numbers get even worse. 91-85 from 2007-2017, and 42-54 since 2012. If those numbers don’t strike you as ugly, then I question the quality of your eyesight.

Let us also remember that those 2007 and 2011 Championship teams over-achieved and in many cases caught lightning in a bottle. Reese inherited the nucleus of a veteran team in 2007, with a hall of fame defensive end, pro-bowl MLB, solid veteran OL, and veteran receiving corps. I give Reese and company full credit for the 2007 draft, which was instrumental in the championship run, but Accorsi spent years building that team, which still managed several playoff appearances in the early 2000s. 2011 was all about Cruz, Nicks, and Manningham, and the Giants pass rush. We all know the 2011 team was not as good or complete as the 2007 or 2008 teams, but Eli had his best year as a pro with a stable of targets to throw to. Also, it wasn’t like 2011 was Coughlin’s first rodeo. I’m not trying to diminish what Reese has accomplished during his time here, I’m just pointing out that the franchise’s successes (though momentous) are inconsistent and not solely attributable to him.

If you look at 2007-2011 as a block in time, you would think the Giants were on their way to being the team of the early 21st century. However, this is where I think Reese fatally erred. Giant fans all know the 2011 team got hot at the right time. We know the 2011 OL was already in decline. We all knew Ahmad Bradshaw was already running on his last legs. And we all knew the 2011 defense was aging (with the exception of JPP) and increasingly banged up. The starting middle LB was Chase Blackburn! Reese spoke yesterday about the Giants buying into the hype (which to me was an indictment of himself and MacAdoo more than the players). I would submit that Reese bought into the hype after 2011 and didn’t see the writing on the wall. On the one hand, who could blame him if he did. He had been GM for five years, had won two Super bowls in that time, blessed with the best QB in franchise history at the top of his game, had a solid rotation of defensive ends, and a trio of game breaking WRs. No doubt the Giants had a very good nucleus of talent from pretty much 2004-2011, but it was rapidly aging and growing more injury prone.

By 2013, when Eli Manning was getting destroyed in the pocket and the running game had evaporated, it was too late. The collapse of the team’s offensive line was nearly complete. Sure they had drafted Pugh, but he was a rookie in 2013, and I would argue too little too late. Diehl was 33 and in dramatic decline. Chris Snee played three games in 2013, the last season he played in the NFL. The OCs were Baas (who was also aging and only played in three games I think) and Jim Cordle (journeyman). The LG was Boothe, a serviceable player, who was also aging and nothing overly special. And Will Beatty, an up and down player, who never lived up to his potential was the LT. The average age of the Giants starting OL in 2013 was 29 years old, which doesn’t sound terrible. However, when you consider that the line started a 23 year old rookie, plus a 33, 32, and 30 year old, the 29 number is misleading. If you take Pugh out of the lineup, the average age rises to nearly 31. When you add the fact that Baas and Diehl by that point in their careers were quite injury prone, it makes that 31 look even older.

As the GM with a Super Bowl winning QB, who is a prototypical pocket passer, Reese should have never allowed 2013 to happen. The saying is you build a football team from the inside out, and this statement is even truer when you have a QB like Eli Manning. Reese was a year too late in trying to fix the OL, and it led to the disaster that was 2013. A 7-9 finish no one expected. I mention all of this to say that the decisions made by Jerry Reese and the front office after the 2011 Super Bowl led to that 2013 season, which directly led to the firing of OC Kevin Gilbride.

I am the first to admit, I was not always happy with Gilbride. I thought his offense functioned like a European sports car. When it was well tuned it was unstoppable, when one part was out of whack, the whole thing came crashing down. Case in point is 2011, when the offense stunk until it found a functional slot WR, and 2013 when the OL could not stop a cold. All that said, Gilbride ran an offense that played to Eli’s strengths. Highly cerebral, well balanced in run vs pass, used playaction to create separation, and was not afraid to throw the ball downfield. I would contend that after the 2013 season when the Giants front office said the “offense was broken,” that they were wrong. The offense was not broken. The offensive line was broken, which brought the Gilbride offense to an abrupt halt. The issue was not a schematic problem as much as a personnel problem.

In my opinion, Jerry Reese paved the way for MacAdoo and they should be thought of as a pairing. The collapse of the OL in the early part of the decade is clearly on Reese. The collapse of the OL led to the MacAdoo hire and a stark change in offensive philosophy. A philosophy that does not play to Eli’s natural strengths. In his mid-30s, Eli underwent a process to change his footwork and speed up his release. Not exactly what you want a two time winning Super Bowl QB doing in his latter playing years. That said, with the arrival of OBJ, the offense enjoyed success. Lost in all those OBJ and Eli stats with MacAdoo as offensive coordinator are two facts. 1) Despite limited success running the ball, the Coughlin-led Giants remained committed to offensive balance and playaction. 2) The Giants defense was horrible in 2014 and 2015, which meant the Giants were either trying for a big play early to get a lead or playing from behind and throwing the ball a lot. This is why some say accurately say “stats are for losers!”

Following two 6-10 seasons, Coughlin was forced into retirement. Never mind that he managed 6 wins with a team that had historically bad defensive talent. Wouldn’t we love 6 wins this year, but I digress. The firing of Coughlin and elevation of MacAdoo cemented this team’s offensive identity. Three step drops, quick passes, short passing game as an extension of the run game, rub routes, slants, outs, and gos. I’m sure I am glossing over some nuances, but the point is made, the MacAdoo offense is philosophically different than the Gilbride/Coughlin offense. I would argue that the performance of the offense in 2016 and the first month of 2017 strongly suggests the transition to the full implementation of the MacAdoo offensive scheme has not been good for the franchise. A fairly easy argument can be made that even OBJ was more effective when Coughlin was the HC.

With this long write-up, I’m trying to illustrate how Reese’s probable mindset and assessment of the team after 2011 contributed to the degradation of the OL, the resulting belief that the offense was broken, the firing of Gilbride and his replacement with MacAdoo, the resulting change in offensive scheme which was a departure from Eli’s strengths and has clearly not yielded consistent results despite having the one of the best offensive playmakers in the game.

2017, and the 1-6 record, has been a 6 year process for the New York Giants. With Coughlin and Gilbride gone, Jerry Reese and Ben MacAdoo are the only ones left holding the bag, and as of 2016 this is their team. The roster is Reese’s, the scheme is MacAdoo’s, and both have failed miserably. Perhaps there was a time when the Giants could piecemeal a solution to their problems, but that time was 2012-2013. Even before the injuries to the WR corps, the 2017 Giants had no running game, could not protect the QB, and employed an offensive scheme that was predictable, stubborn, inconsistent, and ineffective. John Mara may not relish the idea of cleaning house and firing both a GM and HC, but this is what he must do. The New York Giants should not tolerate a historically bad season (which they were well on their way to before injury struck) when they have a more than competent defense, the best QB in franchise history, and the best offensive player in franchise history (for four of the first five games).

I actually think the Giants can return to being a competitive team in 2018 if they first begin by changing their approach. A different offensive philosophy. No more basketball on grass! Rebuild the lines on both sides of the ball. The Giants DL is great, but there is no depth. Eli has at least two good years left in him (I would argue even 3-4) if you put him in a scheme that fits him. I think Eli’s situation is somewhat similar to Elway’s in the late 90s. Eli needs a figure like a Shanahan to come in and prolong his career by emphasizing the run and improved OL play. Between OBJ, Engram, and Shepherd, there are enough high-profile weapons in the passing game. What is lacking is the scheme to make them all complement each other. January 2018 is not the time for half measures, we are passed that point. It is time for a change! And that should begin with a new GM and a new coach.
A sacrifice to the altar of TL;DR  
jcn56 : 10/25/2017 6:58 pm : link
That might help get us winning again, not a bad idea.
Damn good post  
Reb8thVA : 10/25/2017 7:02 pm : link
Emil
Actually Jan. 2018  
The Turk : 10/25/2017 7:09 pm : link
is the time. There isn't a viable head coach out there who would come into this mess mid-season. and the same holds for GM. The good ones are either in those chairs or working somewhere that they can't leave from. So you need to wait to January. The only thing you could do now is get Webb playing time - but with no receivers and the line you mention, is that really a fair test. And why bench Eli? it's not like he would be cut after the season and Webb isn't the starter next year anyway? So you run the program the best you can for the next 9 games and then clean house.
Amen, brother.  
Red Dog : 10/25/2017 7:10 pm : link
Especially to the part about Reese waiting until it was too late to try to fix the OL.

In 2009 Reese demonstrated that he didn't know how to build a football team by letting his draft guy, Ross, waste three late round picks on guys who would not make the team while completely failing to adequately man the Safety position, something that would come back to haunt them quickly. (Remember how they were signing has beens and never-wases off the street during the season?) I had seen enough of Reese and Ross right there and then.
after the first two sentances  
mattlawson : 10/25/2017 7:15 pm : link
i was hooked
RE: Actually Jan. 2018  
Emil : 10/25/2017 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13665159 The Turk said:
Quote:
is the time. There isn't a viable head coach out there who would come into this mess mid-season. and the same holds for GM. The good ones are either in those chairs or working somewhere that they can't leave from. So you need to wait to January. The only thing you could do now is get Webb playing time - but with no receivers and the line you mention, is that really a fair test. And why bench Eli? it's not like he would be cut after the season and Webb isn't the starter next year anyway? So you run the program the best you can for the next 9 games and then clean house.


Sorry if I was not clear. January is the time to make the changes needed. Not before then. A mid-season firing will not fix anything.
great post  
TexasGmenFan : 10/25/2017 7:18 pm : link
echoes the thoughts of many including myself in that Reese, and this franchise in general, sure put in a concerted effort to waste the 2nd half of Eli Manning's career.

poor foresight at the wrong times, poor reactions to results.
RE: Damn good post  
Emil : 10/25/2017 7:29 pm : link
In comment 13665152 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Emil


Thank you. This is therapy for me at this point. Going to be a long 10 more weeks.
.  
Danny Kanell : 10/25/2017 7:32 pm : link
Good post.
It's  
AcidTest : 10/25/2017 7:35 pm : link
going to be difficult to rebuild the OL in one season.

Pugh, Richburg, Fluker, and Jones are FAs. Jerry may not return. Flowers is probably a guard, maybe a RT. Hart is a backup guard. We don't know what we have in Bisnowaty and Wheeler.
I agree with all the above  
montanagiant : 10/25/2017 7:38 pm : link
Really well thought out good post
..  
Dodge : 10/25/2017 7:40 pm : link
Before I read this novel, did you make any mention of give any credit to Reese for being director of personnel from 04 to 07 or does accorsi get all the credit?

People want to hire Gettlemen based on a similar yet lower position and the credit he got for that.
RE: Amen, brother.  
old man : 10/25/2017 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13665161 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Especially to the part about Reese waiting until it was too late to try to fix the OL.

In 2009 Reese demonstrated that he didn't know how to build a football team by letting his draft guy, Ross, waste three late round picks on guys who would not make the team while completely failing to adequately man the Safety position, something that would come back to haunt them quickly. (Remember how they were signing has beens and never-wases off the street during the season?) I had seen enough of Reese and Ross right there and then.

I've been beating that OL horse since 2010 and 2011 when everyone agrees Eli carried that team in spite of a adequate to average, at best, OL.
Good teams evolve their OL with 1 new player about every 2 seasons...more often if they are a maxed out O'Hara, Diehl or banged up Snee. Hoping to hit gold with 4th rounders like Brewer is mining for fools gold knowingly.
After seeing Eli in the P/O game in SF you go w/ David Wilson as your first pick then nothing on OL? Result: you get 2012 and a gassed OL because PROJECTS didn't develop.
And we know how the OL drafting has gone since then.
This exact situation  
ThatLimerickGuy : 10/25/2017 7:49 pm : link
is a direct result of a team atmosphere that has been created by Beckham pushing the envelope without repurcussion for years now.

How can the team respect the HC when one guy is peeing like a dog and getting penalties and doesn't even seem to care.

McAdoo never had a chance here with that headcase running the show.
The rot really began in 2012  
dpinzow : 10/25/2017 7:52 pm : link
That was the end of the Accorsi/Reese/Coughlin Giants we remembered. They lost that close game in Washington to RGIII and got blown out in back to back games at Atlanta and Baltimore where the offensive line looked creaky. At that point, a total rebuild was needed. However, Reese completely failed in evaluating the team since they still finished 9-7 with a blowout win over a Philly team that quit on Andy Reid and were SB champions the year prior...

Reese failed to completely overhaul the OL with the right free agents, knowing that Diehl and Snee were near the end of the line. Diehl's play started to deteriorate in 2011 and was almost falling off a cliff in 2012. Snee had hip surgery at the end of the 2012 season and the organization had to know he was almost finished with that kind of injury. Kareem McKenzie had a big fork sticking out of his back in 2011 (which made that SB run more miraculous since he was our best tackle for most of those Coughlin years). Instead of drafting David Wilson in 2012, he could have drafted Cordy Glenn who became and still is a strong, solid 6 year starter. Glenn would have replaced McKenzie at the very least. He drafted Justin Pugh who was a decent pick, but not an overwhelming success as a 1st rounder. Pugh next to a guy like Glenn would have developed better as a guard and added value to that 1st round pick. Afterwards, you could have gone a different direction before 2014 by getting another legit NFL tackle in FA and going BPA with the 1st round pick...
Additionally, Reese also failed to evaluate what Eli could do  
dpinzow : 10/25/2017 7:56 pm : link
to make up for a creaky OL. Since Eli had a career year with 3 WR targets and an aging OL, Reese assumed that he could skimp on OL talent since Eli was just going to rise above the poor level of his protection for several years going forward. For the first half of 2012, this worked, but as the OL continued to deteriorate, not even Eli in his prime could prevent more complete teams like Baltimore and Atlanta at the time from overwhelming them. Since the Giants still finished with the same 9-7 record in 2012 that they did in 2011, Reese assumed that only tweaks were necessary since Eli's continued strong play would continue regardless of who was blocking for him...
RE: ..  
Emil : 10/25/2017 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13665180 Dodge said:
Quote:
Before I read this novel, did you make any mention of give any credit to Reese for being director of personnel from 04 to 07 or does accorsi get all the credit?

People want to hire Gettlemen based on a similar yet lower position and the credit he got for that.


I did not
The problem with the "fake numbers" theory of 2014 and 2015  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/25/2017 8:09 pm : link
is Manning's interceptions went down precipitously while he was throwing the ball a ton. There were clearly positive effects due to the change in offense from what Gilbride was doing to what McAdoo was doing.

I have no problem with people wanting Reese gone, although I'm damn near nauseated having to read about it in every thread on BBI. I love TC and Eli, but the sanctification of them is almost too much. Are we really making 6 wins into a positive in order to absolve TC of blame for how his final seasons went? No coach would keep his job with some of the losing stretches TC had during his final 3 seasons, even a future Hall of Famer. You want to say Jerry Reese deserves the lion's share of the blame for the current state of the franchise? Fine. But we can't pretend Eli Manning's play hasn't been an issue. The idea that he has 2-3 years left is pure conjecture.
Eli  
Dragon : 10/25/2017 8:10 pm : link
I would like to know what offensive linemen in the NFL could protect our QB? It’s not about the rounds the linemen are drafted or the money you spend in FA it’s about the same guy always being behind center who can’t put his right foot and left foot together if asked to do so game after game. The cry is you got to protect him is he the only QB playing behind not great OL. This is his offense he has seen every snap for over a decade when has he ever made his line look great because of his exceptional physical tools. The team has sucked they spent the money on defense two years ago this year they signed more offensive players but the offense regressed same QB however.

Eli is at the end of his career he has done great things for the Giants but the fact is he can’t make the players around him much better. We the fans made this a Super Bowl team but in fact our players are good to solid and very damn inconsistent. They are way to damn proud of themselves making a simple play or not even being the one who in fact did make a play. Is Eli the only guy not playing well hell no but he is also not being talked about as the future at QB either. Everyone wants JR and McD gone but then what how many new GM and HC want a 38 year old at QB. We are stuck with Eli not sure if he really has any trade value just ask yourself this simple question does Brady have trade value? I’ve been lucky to see some great QB’s play but in the end they all go off into the booth these days not into the sunset.

From this point on you have to find out who is worth keeping for the future we signed some guys to big contracts who are not producing and the list starts with Eli. Our offense and defense are not getting better they are in decline will the bye week help if our history continues it will not.

A midseason head coach firing is window dressing.  
FStubbs : 10/25/2017 8:25 pm : link
A midseason GM firing is necessary. You want a new guy in there to evaluate the front office and start building the offseason strategy so that instead of interviewing in January, he's already got momentum.
not sure about your  
bluepepper : 10/25/2017 8:35 pm : link
and McAdoo. I think Ben is John Mara's guy. When they decided to dump Gilbride, John wanted a young heir-apparent and fell in love with McAdoo and moved him up when TC was let go. Reese may have been on board with this but only in the sense that subordinates pick up on what the boss wants and go along to get along.

I think Mara envies the Rooney Steelers for their consistency and attributes it in part to their continuity at HC. He wanted a young gun. Ben was his attempt to get a Mike Tomlin like guy for NYG.
only 2 teams have won 2 Super Bowls during his tenure  
George from PA : 10/25/2017 8:35 pm : link
New England and the Giants.


so other then your premise....
ugh - should be your "pairing of Reese  
bluepepper : 10/25/2017 8:36 pm : link
and McAdoo"
RE: RE: ..  
Dodge : 10/25/2017 8:42 pm : link
In comment 13665203 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13665180 Dodge said:


Quote:


Before I read this novel, did you make any mention of give any credit to Reese for being director of personnel from 04 to 07 or does accorsi get all the credit?

People want to hire Gettlemen based on a similar yet lower position and the credit he got for that.



I did not


Then isn't your post just a giant bag of biased dicks?
RE: RE: RE: ..  
Emil : 10/25/2017 9:02 pm : link
In comment 13665247 Dodge said:
Quote:
In comment 13665203 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13665180 Dodge said:


Quote:


Before I read this novel, did you make any mention of give any credit to Reese for being director of personnel from 04 to 07 or does accorsi get all the credit?

People want to hire Gettlemen based on a similar yet lower position and the credit he got for that.



I did not



Then isn't your post just a giant bag of biased dicks?


No, since Reese's performance from 04-07 is not in question. What is in question is his performance over the last 6 years, which has not been good. I don't think anyone, fans, ownership, coaches, front office, or players, should tolerate what will be sub 500 record over the past 6 years by the end of this season.
The team is built poorly because  
WillVAB : 10/25/2017 9:04 pm : link
Reese thought he could get away with certain deficiencies after experiencing success with said deficiencies in ‘07 and ‘11. The LBs were mediocre at best in ‘07 and ‘11. The OL was on the decline in ‘11.

After the SBs, Reese probably came away with the notion that if you have a QB, playmaker receivers, and a DL that can get after the QB, you’ll have the talent to compete for a championship. Unfortunately it isn’t that simple.
RE: not sure about your  
Emil : 10/25/2017 9:05 pm : link
In comment 13665239 bluepepper said:
Quote:
and McAdoo. I think Ben is John Mara's guy. When they decided to dump Gilbride, John wanted a young heir-apparent and fell in love with McAdoo and moved him up when TC was let go. Reese may have been on board with this but only in the sense that subordinates pick up on what the boss wants and go along to get along.

I think Mara envies the Rooney Steelers for their consistency and attributes it in part to their continuity at HC. He wanted a young gun. Ben was his attempt to get a Mike Tomlin like guy for NYG.


Really good points, and I don't disagree. My pairing of MacAdoo and Reese isn't to say that MacAdoo was Reese's pick, but that they exist in a symbiotic set of circumstances and their fates are likely intertwined.
RE: only 2 teams have won 2 Super Bowls during his tenure  
Emil : 10/25/2017 9:09 pm : link
In comment 13665240 George from PA said:
Quote:
New England and the Giants.


so other then your premise....


My point was more tied to consistency, planning, and the last six years of terrible performances. Everyone in the organization should be proud of 2007 and 2011, but those are rapidly fading in the distance and are immaterial to 2017.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ..  
Rick5 : 10/25/2017 9:16 pm : link
In comment 13665259 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13665247 Dodge said:


Quote:


In comment 13665203 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13665180 Dodge said:


Quote:


Before I read this novel, did you make any mention of give any credit to Reese for being director of personnel from 04 to 07 or does accorsi get all the credit?

People want to hire Gettlemen based on a similar yet lower position and the credit he got for that.



I did not



Then isn't your post just a giant bag of biased dicks?



No, since Reese's performance from 04-07 is not in question. What is in question is his performance over the last 6 years, which has not been good. I don't think anyone, fans, ownership, coaches, front office, or players, should tolerate what will be sub 500 record over the past 6 years by the end of this season.

This is a good point. There is no problem giving Reese "credit" for two super bowl wins. However, at some point, you have to look at recent performance (especially after it has continued for a fairly long period of time). The recent performance has been very poor (with the exception of last year). At some point, reasonable fans should be able to acknowledge that it may be time to cut ties while being thankful for the SB wins. That being said, if I had to bet, my money is going on both Reese and BM being back next year (but they will both be gone if next year isn't a "success").
it's a clusterfuck both ways  
SHO'NUFF : 10/26/2017 2:20 am : link
between Reese and coaching....neither party can identify OL talent worth shit...even when Reese brings in somebody, Coughlin insisted on playing the broken shells of O'Hara and Diehl...McAdoo is so stubborn, he didn't change the lineup until it was too late, and that was only due to injury.
Emil  
George from PA : 10/26/2017 2:26 am : link
We are all frustrated....

And I do not necessarily disagree with you but you are just not looking at it the way an owner would imo.

Even last year....was a success, even though the under belly, we are saw a major problem....that we down played this year.

Reese has faults but this mess falls more McAdoo. Now, without the WRs, it's just does not matter.
RE: Emil  
Emil : 10/26/2017 7:43 am : link
In comment 13665378 George from PA said:
Quote:
We are all frustrated....

And I do not necessarily disagree with you but you are just not looking at it the way an owner would imo.

Even last year....was a success, even though the under belly, we are saw a major problem....that we down played this year.

Reese has faults but this mess falls more McAdoo. Now, without the WRs, it's just does not matter.


I don't disagree. I focused on Reese's role because of this week's press conference. At least Reese has shown an ability to build a championship roster, he just hasn't done it recently. McAdoo wasn't able to coach a team to a win over 5 games when he was given a more than solid defense, obj, Evan Engram, Sterling Shepherd, and Eli.

Reese should not escape blame, as he is part of the reason McAdoo is here, which to me is directly tied to the aging of the OL from 2011-2013.

Excellent post overall  
GiantTuff1 : 10/26/2017 9:54 am : link
a ton that I agree with, especially the indictment's of Reese, with some slight disagreements.

Reese should have been stockpiling along the o-line in 2010 and 2011 so that the wheels didn't completely fall off the wagon in 2012 onward. He's very fortunate that Eli's super human ability in 2011 completely masked the o-line deficiency. Reese was probably a year late at least in replacing Ohara too.

It doesn't appear Reese has the awareness of an evaluator like Belichick to cut a guy a little earlier once the decline sets in... seems Reese always waits too long hoping that something turns around when the situation is in clear degradation.

Also I happen to think there is a bit of revisionist history with the offensive scheme... The Coughlin / Gilbride offense much of the time was frustratingly inconsistent, misreads and miscommunications, Eli was always at the top of the league in interceptions even in "good" years, and bottom in completion percentage. When it worked and was operating perfectly, it could indeed be difficult to defend, but how often are conditions going to be in place to make that occur. Once they weren't perfect, the offense was relatively poor.... And I think if you are looking fondly upon the Coughbride offense and giving them the benefit of the doubt due to the terrible o-line play they were saddled with at the end of Coughlin and Gilbride's tenure, then I'm not sure how you can't at least to a large degree not offer the same leeway with the current situation. Both coaching regimes must hitch their wagon to the players Reese gave them. The common denominator has been Reese and his failure to build a team that can win.

I'm not saying you're wrong to think that something is wrong with the offense, because there is... I made the mistake of thinking McAdoo was going to be an aggressive coach. A 3 yard out on 3rd and 10 is not what I would call aggressive, it's called coaching to protect stats and to "not lose"... it's Reeves-ian, completely maddening to watch, and ill-inspiring. Imagine if you are a player on that team, how excited you would be to play after decisions like that.

I think Eli's natural offense is one that allows him to generate a rhythm. The WCO is supposed to do that, the problem is that they are only doing 3 step drop stuff...throwing short all the time. I think having some of the deep concepts that were prevalent in the Coughbride O would be beneficial, seemed like it sort of worked in 2014/2015... but in honesty, do you see the old Coughlin offense working a heck of a lot better behind this o-line than what we are seeing now? I believe we already saw that show, it was called 2013.

I think a major problem is the philosophy of how this team is being built... More the makeup of the team from finesse coaches to finesse players, especially on the o-line...

Silent do-nothing types:
Sintim
Beckum
Robinson
Beatty
on and on...
and I hate to say it but McAdoo seems to fall in this line

They all have a similar personality makeups. Probably people Reese might like to fratnerize with at the bar and be friends with in real life, but they are not men to lead a football team. Now, 10+ years later we have team made up of a lot of Reese guys who stuck or didn't stick, and we're surprised they get pushed around... The makeup of this team is in the GM's image, and it's not working.

We need to return to smash mouth up front, on both sides of the ball. We need to get some leadership in here from the top through the core of the team. Start drafting and signing BPA everywhere you can and not downgrading positions like we saw for years at linebacker and TE.

Get back to real Giants football. Passionate. Prideful.
One of the best posts I've read on here in a loooooonnnggg time.  
Britt in VA : 10/26/2017 10:06 am : link
Nailed it.
spot on Emil.  
Victor in CT : 10/26/2017 10:20 am : link
nothing to add
Outstanding post Emil  
Rjanyg : 10/26/2017 12:05 pm : link
The O Line is a complete mess. When 3 players are average at best and 2 are far below average you cannot expect consistency, which is what you need to compete in the NFL. Not every team is going to have a great line, in fact I would guess most NFL offenses are geared just as much to the overall ability of the O Line as they are to the skill sets of the QB/RB/TE/WR's.

Case in point: the Denver game. The game plan was to run the ball and keep 3rd down manageable. The line with Pugh and Fluker on the right side and Jerry at LG is the best positions for all 3 players. This maximized their strengths and hides their shortcomings.

It worked. The problem is, you give an NFL opponent a weekend to study your film, you better have a couple of wrinkles ready to counter the knowledge you just provided.

We are depleted at WR now so the big play is just not there anymore.

Either way, Reese believing John Jerry and Bobby Hart should be starting Offensive linemen is my biggest beef with what wasn't done in the offseason. I was screaming for Leary, Warford, Wagner, somebody to infuse into the right side of the line. I wanted Mitchell Schwartz the year before.

As bad as Flowers has been, the issue with the right side and constantly throwing the ball in 11 personnel has been a bigger issue nobody in the front office of NYG has seen.
Excellent post  
Joeguido : 10/26/2017 12:44 pm : link
Emil.....very good read. Thanks for sharing.
Haven’t read through all the responses yet  
bradshaw44 : 10/26/2017 12:46 pm : link
But that was a damn fine post. Maybe the most well thought out I’ve ever read on this site. Good stuff, Emil. And I think you laid everything out thoughtfully and accurately. I hope someone from the Giants organization reads this and take sit to heart. Good job.
Great Post!!  
GeorgeAdams33 : 10/26/2017 1:50 pm : link
Spot on!!
Do you ever wonder?  
GeoMan999 : 10/26/2017 6:44 pm : link
Where we would be if John Jerry doesnt get caught grabbing the Eagle guy running off the field? Or if Brad Wing had punted a 40 yarder rather than a 28 yarder the same game? Could have been a turning point win. The WR injuries were just a crazy, fluky thing.

There is so much randomness within seasons, and we all need to look for easy scapegoats. I get it, but you have to know that a changing of GMs and/or coaches could just as easily make things even worse.

Nice job on the initial write-up.
RE: Do you ever wonder?  
Emil : 11/2/2017 7:10 am : link
In comment 13666561 GeoMan999 said:
Quote:
Where we would be if John Jerry doesnt get caught grabbing the Eagle guy running off the field? Or if Brad Wing had punted a 40 yarder rather than a 28 yarder the same game? Could have been a turning point win. The WR injuries were just a crazy, fluky thing.

There is so much randomness within seasons, and we all need to look for easy scapegoats. I get it, but you have to know that a changing of GMs and/or coaches could just as easily make things even worse.

Nice job on the initial write-up.


Oh I certainly do, and that the play of individual players in critical situations is a big factor in all this. More inclined to give Wing a pass considering he was outstanding last year. We all know, and I assume the front office knows, what John Jerry is and is not as a player. The fact that they kept putting him out there at RG year after year says a lot of the front office and perhaps even the coaching staff.
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