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What would it take for Mac and Reese to keep their jobs?

Tom from LI : 10/30/2017 8:07 am
I was thinking about this over the weekend. What do you think the threshold is for them to stay employed with the Giants?

1)Do you think there is an amount of games needed to be won? (6,7,8 or 9)

2)Noticeable improvement in the offense even though the Giants only win maybe 3 more games?

3)No chance they are staying, the die has been cast. They are gone come the end of the season.

4)Their jobs are not in jeopardy at all because they are not judging Mcadoo on 1 season. They will also use the loss of every wide receiver on the team as an excuse even though they were win-less with them.

Maybe Reese and Mac say that Eli is the wrong QB for the system and that is why the offense doesn't work. So they get rid of Eli in the off season and go with a draft pick or Webb next year. For Reese to make a statement like it's all on me, its my team, I built it sounds like he thinks he is Teflon and in no danger.

I know some of you will say that what Coach or GM will go potentially into their final season with Webb at QB or even a Rookie? I think these 2 arrogant guys would. Remember they have the owners ear. Also the Giants brass are known as an extremely loyal group.


My 2 cents.. I want them gone but I don't see it happening. I think the Giants have to not win another game and Mac has to totally lose the locker room.. Which I don't think he has.. They're are malcontents.. and I think they will not be hear next season.. I also think Eli won't be here either.
Still a lot of football to be played  
johnnyb : 10/30/2017 8:12 am : link
before a judgement can be made on either Reese or MacAdoo. Your last line, though, is interesting. Where is Eli going to go? And what are the salary cap implications? I really do not think Mara will allow Eli to be traded, unless Eli asks for a trade, which I do not see as a poosinility.
The right kind of pictures  
Jimmy Googs : 10/30/2017 8:16 am : link
ask Tom Quinn...
RE: Still a lot of football to be played  
Tom from LI : 10/30/2017 8:17 am : link
In comment 13669224 johnnyb said:
Quote:
before a judgement can be made on either Reese or MacAdoo. Your last line, though, is interesting. Where is Eli going to go? And what are the salary cap implications? I really do not think Mara will allow Eli to be traded, unless Eli asks for a trade, which I do not see as a poosinility.


I agree and I don't think Eli should go, but if this is the battle cry of Reese and Mac... All they have to tell him next year is that we will be transitioning to a new QB and you could be a healthy scratch.. that would break his streak and maybe he doesn't want that?

I really don't know, I am just speculating
It's hard to say  
jcn56 : 10/30/2017 8:18 am : link
I'm an advocate of finishing the house cleaning that started when TC was dismissed - they gave the rest of the coaching staff and Reese a chance, and they had one up and one really down year. It's time for someone else to take a stab at it, IMO.

That said - we're not privy to what Mara knows, so it's hard to say what it'll take for them to stay or go.

We don't know how reluctant Mara is to pull the trigger on a GM (Giants haven't had many, but this is the only one he's ever hired).

We don't know where each of these guys stood on the personnel in the building. For all we know - Reese or McAdoo (or hell, both) were of the opinion that the team was still rebuilding and last year was a fluke, and were expecting a down year this year.

We don't know how much control anyone has in there - was McAdoo Reese's appointment or was it entirely Mara's call? Was there any involvement by Chris Mara in personnel selection that might have caused them to bypass players that ended up doing better elsewhere? Did McAdoo not have enough say in the creation of the roster, and maybe pointed out holes that were not addressed or had players he wasn't in favor of forced on him?

Only management knows how much of this mess each of them is responsible for.
.  
Diver_Down : 10/30/2017 8:19 am : link
I would like the house to be cleaned - GM, Scouts, Coaches. No holdovers. At a minimum, Reese has earned his pink slip. Before the first snap of the preseason, the team was deficient. One can rehash his drafts and his need to compensate with FA to make-up for the misses. Unfortunately, I think Ben has a ready-made excuse with the injuries alone. In typical dysfunction, the Giants might approach the reorganization piece-meal. A new GM might be straddled with Ben. They can justify it with the injury excuse and spin it that the new GM will be evaluating the coaching staff over the next season.
All makes for an intersting  
johnnyb : 10/30/2017 8:19 am : link
off season Tom. All we can do is speculate.
RE: RE: Still a lot of football to be played  
Diver_Down : 10/30/2017 8:25 am : link
In comment 13669228 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13669224 johnnyb said:


Quote:


before a judgement can be made on either Reese or MacAdoo. Your last line, though, is interesting. Where is Eli going to go? And what are the salary cap implications? I really do not think Mara will allow Eli to be traded, unless Eli asks for a trade, which I do not see as a poosinility.



I agree and I don't think Eli should go, but if this is the battle cry of Reese and Mac... All they have to tell him next year is that we will be transitioning to a new QB and you could be a healthy scratch.. that would break his streak and maybe he doesn't want that?

I really don't know, I am just speculating


We all laugh at owners such as Jerrah whom involve themselves in player decisions. But I don't think Mara would allow Eli to be a healthy scratch. I don't see Mara paying $16 MM to Eli to watch a game. If Reese and Ben are united in transitioning to a new QB, then I don't see Mara paying a $5 MM roster bonus to Eli. The trade scenario is a pipe dream. Eli either plays for the Giants, released before the roster bonus, or retires.
Can't see them firing  
RetroJint : 10/30/2017 8:35 am : link
McAdoo unless he starts walking around in a catatonic state. I don't like the concept of a split ticket, either, so my guess is both guys return . They are one year removed from an 11-win season . How many coaches in Giants history have actually done that? Yeah there used to be 12 & 14-game seasons , but it's still an accomplishment with gravitas .

The conundrum is what to do about the quarterback situation . The Giants are certainly good enough to sweep the Redskins, beat Dallas in the rematch and add more misery to the 49ers season. But what is gained by that when the quarterback is old?

Regardless of who is back or not next year, somebody has to have some evidence on Webb. The entire organization might be wiped . Ownership won't , though . The new broom would have to go into the draft presuming , I guess, that Webb is not the long-term answer . It would help to see what he can do.

But I don't think the Giants will go that route. Coughlin cut the chord with Warner that first season . As we are seeing in Jacksonville, for better or worse, Coughlin is not a timid man.

The Giants are. Therefore my guess is everyone will be back. Prop up Eli. Reprieves for McAdoo & Reese, with Squint Jr's now infamous , "This is not acceptable" bone being thrown to the huddled masses.
Agree with above except the part about we are good enough  
Jimmy Googs : 10/30/2017 8:40 am : link
to sweep the Redskins, beat Dallas and the Niners...
Depends on how the team plays  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/30/2017 9:21 am : link
if they play competitively and the reason they are losing is due to lack of talent, ownership can make the argument that the team hasn't quit on McAdoo.

However...because the Giants have 5 more home games left, if the team looks lifeless (and you will know it when you see it) and appears unprepared (specifically on defense) and there is dissension, that will give the signal.

Those 3 home games in December out of the final four against division teams will give a barometer. If you are a veteran team at (projected) 2-10 going into those games, you are more than likely preparing for Cancun.
what I think  
giantfan2000 : 10/30/2017 9:23 am : link
Fassell 's last season he was hit with tons of injuries
but Fassell was ultimately fired when the team essentially gave up on him

It certainly doesn't bode well for MacAdoo when you have a veteran walking out on the team and now demanding a trade.

I think MacAdoo could survive if he puts together a string of victories
7-9 or better would probably save his job

I think Reese is more complicated
first Reese has never picked QB Eli and his bloated contract was part of the deal when Reese was promoted
I also am convinced that if Reese lost his job tomorrow he would have 5 offers to GM another team - the next day - a decent GM is hard to find in NFL so Giants might be thinking the devil you know is better than the devli you don't know .

The only way Reese loses his job is if there is a high profile coach waiting in wings to take over Giants and they come with a handpicked GM as a package deal




Pictures  
jeff57 : 10/30/2017 9:26 am : link
Which they may have. At least Reese. If not, they can borrow Quinn's, for a price.
Hopefully wins  
The_Boss : 10/30/2017 9:28 am : link
Which is good because there aren’t many out there on the schedule.
What's More Likely Than Mac And Reese Keeping Their Jobs  
Trainmaster : 10/30/2017 9:50 am : link
Seeing this:



At an absolute minimum, Reese has to go. Let the new GM decide on McAdoo.

To answer the question, probably a 6-10 record might give Mara cover to keep Reese.



RE: what I think  
Diver_Down : 10/30/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13669310 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
...
I think Reese is more complicated
first Reese has never picked QB Eli and his bloated contract was part of the deal when Reese was promoted
I also am convinced that if Reese lost his job tomorrow he would have 5 offers to GM another team - the next day - a decent GM is hard to find in NFL so Giants might be thinking the devil you know is better than the devli you don't know .
...


What are you talking about? Reese never picked Eli, but he is absolutely responsible for the contracts. Eli received 2 contracts under Jerry's watch. When Jerry took over in 2007, Eli was still under his rookie contract.
There is a big difference between 3-13 & 6-10..  
Sean : 10/30/2017 9:59 am : link
The recent down years were 7-9, 6-10 & 6-10. The team fought hard despite being out of it early in 13 & 14, remember the Giants were 3-9 in 14. In 15 a lot of close games were lost in brutal fashion.

I think 6-8 wins you can chalk up to injuries, but if this is a 2-4 win season, there is nothing you can chalk that up to. 4-12 is a bottom out record which cost both Jim Fassel & Andy Reid their jobs.

So, the remainder of the season still is part of the evaluation.
Eli  
giantfan2000 : 10/30/2017 10:07 am : link
Quote:
What are you talking about? Reese never picked Eli, but he is absolutely responsible for the contracts. Eli received 2 contracts under Jerry's watch. When Jerry took over in 2007, Eli was still under his rookie contract.



Reese inherited Eli from Ernie .. Eli is pretty much untouchable in Giants Organization . So in a sense ,Eli has always had the upper hand in negotiations .

So what I am saying is that a GM usually gets to pick their coach and their QB Reese has built team in everywhere but the most important position..
The fact that this Front Office didn't have to turnover  
Jimmy Googs : 10/30/2017 10:16 am : link
their QB since 2004 and still are weak at so many areas on Offense is quite telling...
If the team continues to play hard  
JonC : 10/30/2017 10:16 am : link
and doesn't give the appearance of bailing on the coaches, I suspect they'll be back for one more season, for many reasons Retro outlined. It would be very unlike NYG to pull the trigger, especially given all the injuries that have added an extra ingredient of imploding this season.
RE: Eli  
Diver_Down : 10/30/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13669386 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:


Quote:


What are you talking about? Reese never picked Eli, but he is absolutely responsible for the contracts. Eli received 2 contracts under Jerry's watch. When Jerry took over in 2007, Eli was still under his rookie contract.




Reese inherited Eli from Ernie .. Eli is pretty much untouchable in Giants Organization . So in a sense ,Eli has always had the upper hand in negotiations .

So what I am saying is that a GM usually gets to pick their coach and their QB Reese has built team in everywhere but the most important position..


Well, it will be debated whether Jerry chose Ben or whether it was only John and Steve. But one can't say he was saddled with a coach from another GM. Ben is Jerry's coach whether he was directly hired or not by him. And people often forget, but Jerry has chosen his QB. He has chosen it 4 times. The jury is still out on Webb, but Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Nassib have all flamed out.
If the team plays hard  
joeinpa : 10/30/2017 10:16 am : link
Young guys improve, Giants are competitive with maybe a win against the Cowboys and Eagles, I think the coach might save his job.

I think the ship has sailed for Reese. Watching games around the league. Seeing linebacker play and line play on both sides of the ball superior to the Giants; seeing mid round draft picks excell, comparing it with Reese s track record the past years, I think he s gone.

His most recent press conference was very confusing to me. Bought into the hype, Why?

His plan to build a team has not been sustainable.
Romo example  
giantfan2000 : 10/30/2017 12:00 pm : link
Quote:
Well, it will be debated whether Jerry chose Ben or whether it was only John and Steve. But one can't say he was saddled with a coach from another GM. Ben is Jerry's coach whether he was directly hired or not by him. And people often forget, but Jerry has chosen his QB. He has chosen it 4 times. The jury is still out on Webb, but Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Nassib have all flamed out.


valid points
I look at Dallas where Jerry Jones had almost irrational loved Romo - so much that it was pretty much impossible for Jason Garrett to suggest a change at QB .

it could be argued that the best thing that ever happen to Jason Garrett was Romo getting hurt .

if McAdoo shows a willingness to change and adapt  
SHO'NUFF : 10/30/2017 12:14 pm : link
he might have a chance to stay. Reese is as good as gone.
What GM is taking a job when he can't pick his coach  
AnnapolisMike : 10/30/2017 12:19 pm : link
If Reese is gone....so is the coaching staff unless the new GM decides to keep them.

I strongly believe that the last 4 games will make or break the staff  
JohnB : 10/30/2017 1:09 pm : link
If Met Life is like it was for the Seahawks game, you can kiss everyone goodbye. Mara will not stand the visiting team fans to rock the stadium every week and sit by and do nothing.

And it's a bad sign if the Giants mail it in on Thanksgiving against the Redskins. Very bad.
McAddo may be a good coach, I don't think you can judge based on  
mikeinbloomfield : 10/30/2017 1:18 pm : link
two years, one up and one down. However, you can point to the offense being bad for two years as a negative for him returning. He is supposed to be an offensive minded coach.

The real point is that it is time for Reese to go. I think the chances of getting your target GM go down if you handcuff him by saying he has to keep the coach. So, if McAdoo has to go as a provision for bringing in a new GM, so be it.
I can't believe in the 10 years since  
JFIB : 10/30/2017 1:22 pm : link
Reese took over as GM, we have only won more than 8 games in a season 4 times! That means 6 years of sub .500 play!

Really disturbing to me. I'm ready to see a new GM and coach next year.
Clean house.  
Red Dog : 10/30/2017 1:24 pm : link
Thoroughly.
Unlikely Reese goes and BM remains  
JonC : 10/30/2017 1:45 pm : link
New GM will want to pick his guy, and if the remaining structure appears too meddlesome, finding a new GM is going to be even more of a challenge.
Mara and Tisch would have to not sell the team  
Glover : 10/30/2017 2:04 pm : link
These guys are both back. Just like last year's O line was the O line for this season. Coughlin already took the bullet for Reese, they won't fire Reese and keep Mac, and they certainly won't fire both of them. I like how the Giants are not impulsive and are willing to ride out tough times for the sake of continuity and to avoid all that comes with new coaching staffs and schemes, however, the fact that they fired a HOF coach and kept the guy who is the reason why this team has a horrible offensive line, and dont even have an offense (outside of that anomalous Denver game) if their one star player is unavailable. It looks bad for Reese and Mac, but they will both survive as long as they win 6 games.
Anyone  
PaulN : 10/30/2017 4:33 pm : link
Who thinks Reese would get 5 offers is completely clueless, I argued with people about Fassel also, he never got an offer, Reese will never get an offer because he is a horrible GM, Fassel was not a horrible coach, the reasons were different. Reese may get a scouting job, but that is where he will get offers, not as a GM.
Reese had  
PaulN : 10/30/2017 4:38 pm : link
Osi, Tuck, Strahan, Webster on defense, he had one of the best offensive lines he added nobody who took over and did anything but a bad job on the offensive line. He also had a franchise QB with Burress, Toomer, and Shockey as playmakers along with Jacobs also running back, poor Reese, how did he ever do it.
He also  
PaulN : 10/30/2017 4:40 pm : link
Had a future Hall of fame head coach, what a job he did. Took over a franchise that was as easy to take over as any at that time, one of the best at that time. How would you rank us now?
I think mcadoo is done here  
djm : 10/30/2017 5:07 pm : link
But I say that with the belief the Giants go 3-13 or so. Mara will have to look at this offense the last 2-3 years and conclude that mcadoo hasn't brought anything to the table. It was Beckham who helped Eli. Not mcadoo.

This really is a terrible and at the same time fascinating year. We've NEVER been in this spot since the late 70s. Some Fans proclaiming that Mara has to do this or that (clean house) aren't recognizing the dynamic here. The Giants haven't fired a GM in close to 40 years. 40! They do fire coaches but even that move is typically a last resort. To say this is a unique and delicate situation would be an understatement. I know everyone hates Reese but the Giants keep the GM because they crave stability. And who can blame them? For the most part this philosophy has worked and worked well. They have stuck with gms like accorsi who at one point in time were public enemy number one around here. Who here liked accorsi in 2003? Granted it's apples and oranges to compare his tenure to Reese but it's still applicable.

I have no idea what the Giants do and anyone thinking they do know is fooling themselves. There is no data to go on. We are in uncharted waters. Gun to my head I think they clean house but I really don't know.
I think mcadoo is done here  
djm : 10/30/2017 5:08 pm : link
But I say that with the belief the Giants go 3-13 or so. Mara will have to look at this offense the last 2-3 years and conclude that mcadoo hasn't brought anything to the table. It was Beckham who helped Eli. Not mcadoo.

This really is a terrible and at the same time fascinating year. We've NEVER been in this spot since the late 70s. Some Fans proclaiming that Mara has to do this or that (clean house) aren't recognizing the dynamic here. The Giants haven't fired a GM in close to 40 years. 40! They do fire coaches but even that move is typically a last resort. To say this is a unique and delicate situation would be an understatement. I know everyone hates Reese but the Giants keep the GM because they crave stability. And who can blame them? For the most part this philosophy has worked and worked well. They have stuck with gms like accorsi who at one point in time were public enemy number one around here. Who here liked accorsi in 2003? Granted it's apples and oranges to compare his tenure to Reese but it's still applicable.

I have no idea what the Giants do and anyone thinking they do know is fooling themselves. There is no data to go on. We are in uncharted waters. Gun to my head I think they clean house but I really don't know.
I think mcadoo is done here  
djm : 10/30/2017 5:08 pm : link
But I say that with the belief the Giants go 3-13 or so. Mara will have to look at this offense the last 2-3 years and conclude that mcadoo hasn't brought anything to the table. It was Beckham who helped Eli. Not mcadoo.

This really is a terrible and at the same time fascinating year. We've NEVER been in this spot since the late 70s. Some Fans proclaiming that Mara has to do this or that (clean house) aren't recognizing the dynamic here. The Giants haven't fired a GM in close to 40 years. 40! They do fire coaches but even that move is typically a last resort. To say this is a unique and delicate situation would be an understatement. I know everyone hates Reese but the Giants keep the GM because they crave stability. And who can blame them? For the most part this philosophy has worked and worked well. They have stuck with gms like accorsi who at one point in time were public enemy number one around here. Who here liked accorsi in 2003? Granted it's apples and oranges to compare his tenure to Reese but it's still applicable.

I have no idea what the Giants do and anyone thinking they do know is fooling themselves. There is no data to go on. We are in uncharted waters. Gun to my head I think they clean house but I really don't know.
Sorry...  
djm : 10/30/2017 5:15 pm : link
..
The Giants way  
Phil in LA : 10/30/2017 6:24 pm : link
was always "Play meaningful games in December."
Reese nor Mac aren't going anywhere  
micky : 10/30/2017 6:41 pm : link
injuries are the cause which Mara will hold as cause of bad season.

plus, Mara wants continuity and stay the course way of doing things. not much change in off season if at all
RE: Reese nor Mac aren't going anywhere  
Sean : 10/30/2017 6:48 pm : link
In comment 13669915 micky said:
Quote:
injuries are the cause which Mara will hold as cause of bad season.

plus, Mara wants continuity and stay the course way of doing things. not much change in off season if at all


I would buy that if the Giants rallied & finished 6-10 / 7-9.

If they finish 3-13 / 4-12, I expect a full house cleaning.
Mac could stay  
TMS : 10/30/2017 7:21 pm : link
if the next GM wants him in some capacity (OC or HC) . Reese should have been gone a long time ago so who knows ? Unless there is a major change at the top we will have the same old BS here.
Ha!  
Fishmanjim57 : 10/30/2017 8:31 pm : link
The team would have to win every game for the remainder of the season, and maybe qualify for the wild card.
It won't happen.
FIRE THEM BOTH!
people on this board have said they think the loyalty  
Jersey55 : 10/31/2017 11:18 am : link
of the owners will keep Reese from being fired, if thats true then how come they fired TC and made it appear that every thing was his fault, what is Reese doing right now that makes him untouchable........
No idea.  
Rick5 : 10/31/2017 11:51 am : link
No outcome would surprise me. Neither a full house cleaning nor a complete retention of everyone would surprise (or anything in between). It will be interesting.
RE: Mac could stay  
djm : 10/31/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13669946 TMS said:
Quote:
if the next GM wants him in some capacity (OC or HC) . Reese should have been gone a long time ago so who knows ? Unless there is a major change at the top we will have the same old BS here.


If a new GM comes in and keeps McAdoo in any capacity I will shit sideways.
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