I was thinking about this over the weekend. What do you think the threshold is for them to stay employed with the Giants?
1)Do you think there is an amount of games needed to be won? (6,7,8 or 9)
2)Noticeable improvement in the offense even though the Giants only win maybe 3 more games?
3)No chance they are staying, the die has been cast. They are gone come the end of the season.
4)Their jobs are not in jeopardy at all because they are not judging Mcadoo on 1 season. They will also use the loss of every wide receiver on the team as an excuse even though they were win-less with them.
Maybe Reese and Mac say that Eli is the wrong QB for the system and that is why the offense doesn't work. So they get rid of Eli in the off season and go with a draft pick or Webb next year. For Reese to make a statement like it's all on me, its my team, I built it sounds like he thinks he is Teflon and in no danger.
I know some of you will say that what Coach or GM will go potentially into their final season with Webb at QB or even a Rookie? I think these 2 arrogant guys would. Remember they have the owners ear. Also the Giants brass are known as an extremely loyal group.
My 2 cents.. I want them gone but I don't see it happening. I think the Giants have to not win another game and Mac has to totally lose the locker room.. Which I don't think he has.. They're are malcontents.. and I think they will not be hear next season.. I also think Eli won't be here either.
I agree and I don't think Eli should go, but if this is the battle cry of Reese and Mac... All they have to tell him next year is that we will be transitioning to a new QB and you could be a healthy scratch.. that would break his streak and maybe he doesn't want that?
I really don't know, I am just speculating
That said - we're not privy to what Mara knows, so it's hard to say what it'll take for them to stay or go.
We don't know how reluctant Mara is to pull the trigger on a GM (Giants haven't had many, but this is the only one he's ever hired).
We don't know where each of these guys stood on the personnel in the building. For all we know - Reese or McAdoo (or hell, both) were of the opinion that the team was still rebuilding and last year was a fluke, and were expecting a down year this year.
We don't know how much control anyone has in there - was McAdoo Reese's appointment or was it entirely Mara's call? Was there any involvement by Chris Mara in personnel selection that might have caused them to bypass players that ended up doing better elsewhere? Did McAdoo not have enough say in the creation of the roster, and maybe pointed out holes that were not addressed or had players he wasn't in favor of forced on him?
Only management knows how much of this mess each of them is responsible for.
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before a judgement can be made on either Reese or MacAdoo. Your last line, though, is interesting. Where is Eli going to go? And what are the salary cap implications? I really do not think Mara will allow Eli to be traded, unless Eli asks for a trade, which I do not see as a poosinility.
I agree and I don't think Eli should go, but if this is the battle cry of Reese and Mac... All they have to tell him next year is that we will be transitioning to a new QB and you could be a healthy scratch.. that would break his streak and maybe he doesn't want that?
I really don't know, I am just speculating
We all laugh at owners such as Jerrah whom involve themselves in player decisions. But I don't think Mara would allow Eli to be a healthy scratch. I don't see Mara paying $16 MM to Eli to watch a game. If Reese and Ben are united in transitioning to a new QB, then I don't see Mara paying a $5 MM roster bonus to Eli. The trade scenario is a pipe dream. Eli either plays for the Giants, released before the roster bonus, or retires.
The conundrum is what to do about the quarterback situation . The Giants are certainly good enough to sweep the Redskins, beat Dallas in the rematch and add more misery to the 49ers season. But what is gained by that when the quarterback is old?
Regardless of who is back or not next year, somebody has to have some evidence on Webb. The entire organization might be wiped . Ownership won't , though . The new broom would have to go into the draft presuming , I guess, that Webb is not the long-term answer . It would help to see what he can do.
But I don't think the Giants will go that route. Coughlin cut the chord with Warner that first season . As we are seeing in Jacksonville, for better or worse, Coughlin is not a timid man.
The Giants are. Therefore my guess is everyone will be back. Prop up Eli. Reprieves for McAdoo & Reese, with Squint Jr's now infamous , "This is not acceptable" bone being thrown to the huddled masses.
However...because the Giants have 5 more home games left, if the team looks lifeless (and you will know it when you see it) and appears unprepared (specifically on defense) and there is dissension, that will give the signal.
Those 3 home games in December out of the final four against division teams will give a barometer. If you are a veteran team at (projected) 2-10 going into those games, you are more than likely preparing for Cancun.
but Fassell was ultimately fired when the team essentially gave up on him
It certainly doesn't bode well for MacAdoo when you have a veteran walking out on the team and now demanding a trade.
I think MacAdoo could survive if he puts together a string of victories
7-9 or better would probably save his job
I think Reese is more complicated
first Reese has never picked QB Eli and his bloated contract was part of the deal when Reese was promoted
I also am convinced that if Reese lost his job tomorrow he would have 5 offers to GM another team - the next day - a decent GM is hard to find in NFL so Giants might be thinking the devil you know is better than the devli you don't know .
The only way Reese loses his job is if there is a high profile coach waiting in wings to take over Giants and they come with a handpicked GM as a package deal
At an absolute minimum, Reese has to go. Let the new GM decide on McAdoo.
To answer the question, probably a 6-10 record might give Mara cover to keep Reese.
I think Reese is more complicated
first Reese has never picked QB Eli and his bloated contract was part of the deal when Reese was promoted
I also am convinced that if Reese lost his job tomorrow he would have 5 offers to GM another team - the next day - a decent GM is hard to find in NFL so Giants might be thinking the devil you know is better than the devli you don't know .
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What are you talking about? Reese never picked Eli, but he is absolutely responsible for the contracts. Eli received 2 contracts under Jerry's watch. When Jerry took over in 2007, Eli was still under his rookie contract.
I think 6-8 wins you can chalk up to injuries, but if this is a 2-4 win season, there is nothing you can chalk that up to. 4-12 is a bottom out record which cost both Jim Fassel & Andy Reid their jobs.
So, the remainder of the season still is part of the evaluation.
Reese inherited Eli from Ernie .. Eli is pretty much untouchable in Giants Organization . So in a sense ,Eli has always had the upper hand in negotiations .
So what I am saying is that a GM usually gets to pick their coach and their QB Reese has built team in everywhere but the most important position..
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What are you talking about? Reese never picked Eli, but he is absolutely responsible for the contracts. Eli received 2 contracts under Jerry's watch. When Jerry took over in 2007, Eli was still under his rookie contract.
Reese inherited Eli from Ernie .. Eli is pretty much untouchable in Giants Organization . So in a sense ,Eli has always had the upper hand in negotiations .
So what I am saying is that a GM usually gets to pick their coach and their QB Reese has built team in everywhere but the most important position..
Well, it will be debated whether Jerry chose Ben or whether it was only John and Steve. But one can't say he was saddled with a coach from another GM. Ben is Jerry's coach whether he was directly hired or not by him. And people often forget, but Jerry has chosen his QB. He has chosen it 4 times. The jury is still out on Webb, but Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, Ryan Nassib have all flamed out.
I think the ship has sailed for Reese. Watching games around the league. Seeing linebacker play and line play on both sides of the ball superior to the Giants; seeing mid round draft picks excell, comparing it with Reese s track record the past years, I think he s gone.
His most recent press conference was very confusing to me. Bought into the hype, Why?
His plan to build a team has not been sustainable.
valid points
I look at Dallas where Jerry Jones had almost irrational loved Romo - so much that it was pretty much impossible for Jason Garrett to suggest a change at QB .
it could be argued that the best thing that ever happen to Jason Garrett was Romo getting hurt .
And it's a bad sign if the Giants mail it in on Thanksgiving against the Redskins. Very bad.
The real point is that it is time for Reese to go. I think the chances of getting your target GM go down if you handcuff him by saying he has to keep the coach. So, if McAdoo has to go as a provision for bringing in a new GM, so be it.
Really disturbing to me. I'm ready to see a new GM and coach next year.
This really is a terrible and at the same time fascinating year. We've NEVER been in this spot since the late 70s. Some Fans proclaiming that Mara has to do this or that (clean house) aren't recognizing the dynamic here. The Giants haven't fired a GM in close to 40 years. 40! They do fire coaches but even that move is typically a last resort. To say this is a unique and delicate situation would be an understatement. I know everyone hates Reese but the Giants keep the GM because they crave stability. And who can blame them? For the most part this philosophy has worked and worked well. They have stuck with gms like accorsi who at one point in time were public enemy number one around here. Who here liked accorsi in 2003? Granted it's apples and oranges to compare his tenure to Reese but it's still applicable.
I have no idea what the Giants do and anyone thinking they do know is fooling themselves. There is no data to go on. We are in uncharted waters. Gun to my head I think they clean house but I really don't know.
This really is a terrible and at the same time fascinating year. We've NEVER been in this spot since the late 70s. Some Fans proclaiming that Mara has to do this or that (clean house) aren't recognizing the dynamic here. The Giants haven't fired a GM in close to 40 years. 40! They do fire coaches but even that move is typically a last resort. To say this is a unique and delicate situation would be an understatement. I know everyone hates Reese but the Giants keep the GM because they crave stability. And who can blame them? For the most part this philosophy has worked and worked well. They have stuck with gms like accorsi who at one point in time were public enemy number one around here. Who here liked accorsi in 2003? Granted it's apples and oranges to compare his tenure to Reese but it's still applicable.
I have no idea what the Giants do and anyone thinking they do know is fooling themselves. There is no data to go on. We are in uncharted waters. Gun to my head I think they clean house but I really don't know.
This really is a terrible and at the same time fascinating year. We've NEVER been in this spot since the late 70s. Some Fans proclaiming that Mara has to do this or that (clean house) aren't recognizing the dynamic here. The Giants haven't fired a GM in close to 40 years. 40! They do fire coaches but even that move is typically a last resort. To say this is a unique and delicate situation would be an understatement. I know everyone hates Reese but the Giants keep the GM because they crave stability. And who can blame them? For the most part this philosophy has worked and worked well. They have stuck with gms like accorsi who at one point in time were public enemy number one around here. Who here liked accorsi in 2003? Granted it's apples and oranges to compare his tenure to Reese but it's still applicable.
I have no idea what the Giants do and anyone thinking they do know is fooling themselves. There is no data to go on. We are in uncharted waters. Gun to my head I think they clean house but I really don't know.
plus, Mara wants continuity and stay the course way of doing things. not much change in off season if at all
plus, Mara wants continuity and stay the course way of doing things. not much change in off season if at all
I would buy that if the Giants rallied & finished 6-10 / 7-9.
If they finish 3-13 / 4-12, I expect a full house cleaning.
It won't happen.
FIRE THEM BOTH!
If a new GM comes in and keeps McAdoo in any capacity I will shit sideways.