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Midseason Draft Report

Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 10:41 am
Hey guys...I told Eric I would put this together this past weekend...just got caught up in some other work. Not going in to great detail but would love to get some discussion going over the next few days. So...just a few bulls points based on what I've seen this year. I still have a lengthy list of guys I have not seen, or have only seen 1x this year so everything is still very fluid.

1) The hyped QB class has been very underwhelming.

I had a feeling this would happen because even though I didn't scout these guys a year ago, I saw them plenty and wasn't woefully impressed. There are significant negatives to all of the top guys. The one that I think can be a legit star, however, is Josh Rosen/UCLA. He has the combination of repeatable throwing mechanics, arm power, accuracy, and feel in the pocket. He has had less help around him than all the other guys by far...none of the draft eligible QBs have had more drops by their targets than Rosen this year. He is now battling a hand injury, something to monitor. The most disappointing guy so far has been Sam Darnold. We can talk tools and ability in the clutch, but he is making downright awful decisions multiple times each week and hasn't protected the ball for a game yet. He needs to go back for his redshirt junior season.

Top 5 as of now:

1 - Josh Rosen - UCLA
2 - Baker Mayfield - OKLAHOMA
3 - Ryan Finley - NC STATE
4 - Josh Allen - WYOMING
5 - Mason Rudolph - OKLAHOMA STATE

2) The strongest position in the draft may be RB

After the 2017 Draft, I can recall Dave Te'Thomas saying there wouldn't be a single RB in the 1st round discussion. I remember thinking..."has Dave ever heard of Saquon Barkley?!?"...but now that we are in to the meat of the season, I think there are multiple guys in round 1 discussions. Barkley is, has been, and will continue to be by #1 overall player in the class. But some other 1st round caliber names that have emerged are Josh Adams/NOTRE DAME, Darrius Guice/LSU, Bryce Love/STANFORD, Damien Harris/ALABAMA, and Ronald Jones/USC. These are all guys that bring something special to the table and in a class that lacks star power at the top, RB may be the spot teams look to in terms of adding playmakers.

3). That brings me to another underwhelming group, the OTs.

The top OTs heading that I had heading in to the year have been, yet again, disappointing. It will be a slightly better overall group than what was out there in 2017, but not by much. The top guy is Orlando Brown/OKLAHOMA. At 6'8/330 with long arms and really strong hands, he can be a top level guy if he cleans up his footwork. He is the one guy that I think can be a too 5 overall type pick. Mike McGlinchey/NOTRE DAME has been exposed multiple times by speed and quickness and I now question if he can be a LT in the NFL.

4). It is possible the two highest OL grades will be OGs

Quentin Nelson/NOTRE DAME has been the most dominant AND most consistent OL in the nation. I have very little negatives to say about him. At his size (6'5/330) he shows tremendous ability to adjust to quickness and leverage. He has overwhelming strength and power from head to toe, and he is really smart. The second is a name many don't know about...Will Hernandez/UTEP. He doesn't get beat one on one and has the tools to double as a dominating bulldozer and light footed lead blocker in space. He has top tier potential, top tier.

5) There isn't going to be a ton of DE help

The theme of this draft class has been the main top-of-the-draft positions have not been overly strong in comparison to past years (QB-WR-LT-CB-DE). The DE group had a couple names with big circles around them coming in to the year, but they haven't stood out in the games I have scouted. Arden Key/LSU looks the part, but there are some off field concerns with him and frankly has not shown dominant traits. Harold Landry/BOSTON COLLEGE has failed to live up to the hype and I have poor grades on his effort and run defense multiple times so far this year. The one bright spot is Bradley Chubb/NC STATE who has top 10 potential and could fit in to a 4-3 DE role day one.

MORE SPECIFIC NYG DRAFT TALK

-Giants will be picking in the top 10, most likely in the top 7. Their "program" has hit an all time low since Manning has been here, Manning himself is near the end...have to think QB is on their short list right? It will very much depend on whether or not they fire Reese/McAdoo. I can't see them spending their top pick on a QB after using their 3rd rounder who hasn't seen the field yet in 2017. They will need a 2018 impact player, no questions asked. If those guys do get fired, QB will certainly be in the discussion. Who that is...partially depends on who is running the new regime. If you had to make me choose one right now, it's Rosen.

-So if not a QB, then what? I've been saying this since September and I'll keep saying it...if NYG has a shot at Barkley, take him. The OL can be figured out...he is a guy this team can rely on for a long time. I understand the importance of the OL as much as anyone out there...but he truly is a once in a lifetime caliber RB in my opinion.

-If no QB, and Barkley isn't there (I could see CLE going hard for him)...this is where it just gets muddy. I don't think there is going to be a LT worth taking that high (although OU's Brown is on my radar). The Giants CB trio went from a major perceived strength to three long term question marks. Somehow...man that is nuts. But one of my favorite defenders in the country over the past three years is Alabama DB Minkah Fitzpatrick. He plays literally everywhere...and easily projects to near top grade at FS, Nickel CB, and CB. He is a guy you bring in here then figure it out. Better version of what DAL has in Byron Jones.

-Where is the OL help going to come? Before NYG spends any money in free agency, the approach has to be OL first. Correct, you can't simply overpay for mediocre talent. But watching Russell Okung and Andrew Whitworth play at a very high level right now is tough to see...especially knowing NYG could have likely had either. Guys like that will be available and they must get one. If you can add a piece there and look to add a 2nd or 3rd rounder in the draft in addition to re-signing Pugh, this group could all of the sudden be a strength. Crazy thought right? If they want a day 2 OG, Tyrone Crowder/CLEMSON is a guy that fits the bill. I also like Braden Smith/AUBURN and Jamaica Jones/OHIO STATE that could project both inside and out.

-The LB situation continues to hamper them a bit, although not as drastic as its been in the past. The one guy I am being sold on hard right now is Rashaan Evans/ALABAMA. That program has had so. much talent in the past few years, so he had to wait his turn but in the 3 games I have scouted, he may be the best since CJ Mosley and maybe even better than that.

-Everyone's common line on NYG drafts is to "trade down get extra picks....etc. Remember...that is what EVERYONE wants to do. It's not easy...and a lot of that comes by partial luck and specific situations.

-I'll be able to get to any questions asked this afternoon and tomorrow. Thanks.
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Thanks Sy'56  
blueblood : 11/2/2017 10:44 am : link
your insight into the draft is much appreciated especially for people like me who dont watch as much college football as they used to.

This year Draft analysis for me is coming MUCH earlier.. for obvious reasons..

Thanks.. your both a resource and a treasure..
Great stuff Sy...  
ryanmkeane : 11/2/2017 10:45 am : link
everyone seems to have Connor Williams of Texas in their top 10. Any comment on him?
Sy  
jtgiants : 11/2/2017 10:48 am : link
Even though I disagree with you, alot, thanks as always for the work you do. Ill just say this. Darnold is going to be a star. Don't get fooled by his down year. Many qb's have down senior years. What's happening now has little to do with him on the next level. I love the guy
Darnold..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/2/2017 10:50 am : link
isn't a senior.

No wonder you disagree with Sy a lot.
Thanks Sy  
tbonfig : 11/2/2017 10:50 am : link
I'm one of those who really appreciates the work you put in and the value you add to BBI as a unit. You're one of the shining spots here.

Only halfway through the season so it's impossible to know where the Giants will land yet, but do you feel strongly about who you believe the top 5 players will be off the board, regardless of the draft order of teams?
Fat man...  
jtgiants : 11/2/2017 10:51 am : link
Screw you jerkoff. I meant final season in college not senior. Sry I misspoke but my point is absolutely c o erect. Get a clue.
I hate the fact that this is the best article on the Forum  
Dnew15 : 11/2/2017 10:51 am : link
right now - and it's freakin November.
Sy - in your scout's eye - which is the bigger problem with this team THIS year - is it coaching or is lack of talent? Are we a new coach and a couple of good draft picks away from being a legit contender or do you view the talent on this roster as a blow it up and start over situation? Just curious on you take...
RE: Great stuff Sy...  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13672978 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
everyone seems to have Connor Williams of Texas in their top 10. Any comment on him?


He was hurt week 1...hasn't returned yet. He was an All American last year...my initial read on him was on the overrated side, looked somewhat like a guard. But I didn't see enough yet and I would think he is going to return to school next year.
Bah  
JonC : 11/2/2017 10:51 am : link
you're reading the top 10 prospects similarly to me, underwhelming group, at this point. Hopeful the QBs pull their shite together or the pro scouts see differently for the NFL.
Thanks Sy  
njm : 11/2/2017 10:52 am : link
Rarely does a guard go in the Top 5-7, so where do you think Nelson will go? And yes, I'm tilting at windmills hoping the Giants could trade down slightly, draft Nelson and get an extra draft pick, maybe a 3rd rounder.
For the record  
jtgiants : 11/2/2017 10:52 am : link
St will be the first one to tell you he's had hits and misses. Its why we all love the draft. Beuty is in the eye of the beholder
RE: Thanks Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13672985 tbonfig said:
Quote:
I'm one of those who really appreciates the work you put in and the value you add to BBI as a unit. You're one of the shining spots here.

Only halfway through the season so it's impossible to know where the Giants will land yet, but do you feel strongly about who you believe the top 5 players will be off the board, regardless of the draft order of teams?


I don't. The top 5 is unclear but here is my best shot:

1 - Barkley - RB/Penn State
2 - Rosen - QB/UCLA
3 - James - S/Florida State
4 - Wilkins - DT/Clemson
5 - Fitzpatrick - CB/Alabama
Any edge rushers  
Dankbeerman : 11/2/2017 10:54 am : link
that can project to a 4-3 OLB this year. Always a tough fit but feel we have been missing on, or trting to force a 3-4 guy into the position.

Also whats your read on Josh Adams. He seems like a big guy that doesnt, or doesnt have to use his body. Is that a tribute to him or his OL?
Thanks Sy  
adamg : 11/2/2017 10:55 am : link
If I can ask a couple questions

Any WLBs on the radar in the 3-4th round range?

Thoughts on WR Anthony Miller at Memphis?
RE: I hate the fact that this is the best article on the Forum  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 10:55 am : link
In comment 13672988 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
right now - and it's freakin November.
Sy - in your scout's eye - which is the bigger problem with this team THIS year - is it coaching or is lack of talent? Are we a new coach and a couple of good draft picks away from being a legit contender or do you view the talent on this roster as a blow it up and start over situation? Just curious on you take...


Gun to my head...I think it has more to do with coaching/leadership than it does personnel. Although the front office really screwed up their approach to the OL and the impact there is enormous.

This team can contend in 2018 with Manning at the helm and a coach. 100%.
RE: Thanks Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13672992 njm said:
Quote:
Rarely does a guard go in the Top 5-7, so where do you think Nelson will go? And yes, I'm tilting at windmills hoping the Giants could trade down slightly, draft Nelson and get an extra draft pick, maybe a 3rd rounder.


Nelson can be a top 10-15 pick...not sure much higher than that.
RE: Any edge rushers  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13672996 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
that can project to a 4-3 OLB this year. Always a tough fit but feel we have been missing on, or trting to force a 3-4 guy into the position.

Also whats your read on Josh Adams. He seems like a big guy that doesnt, or doesnt have to use his body. Is that a tribute to him or his OL?


I'm not a huge Adams for the NFL guy....not yet. Don't like his build and he's had as much space to run in to as anyone. He is a solid athlete though, will break tackles, can runaway from guys. Similar to what SEA has in Prosise.

Lorenzo Carter from Georgia is an interesting edge guy that can play a 4-3 OLB role. I think Kennard has the spot locked down though. I think NYG needs more help on the weak side. Rashaan Evans is THE guy there.
FMIC..  
Sean : 11/2/2017 11:00 am : link
why have you been such a dick of late? Geez you have been so nasty.
Where do you value Evans?  
adamg : 11/2/2017 11:00 am : link
2nd round?
RE: Thanks Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13672999 adamg said:
Quote:
If I can ask a couple questions

Any WLBs on the radar in the 3-4th round range?

Thoughts on WR Anthony Miller at Memphis?


I wrote up Miller a few weeks ago...love him. Gamer, has some Antonio Brown in him. Tough as nails.

Mid round LBs...Dorian O'Daniel/CLEMSON, Anthony Winbush/BALL STATE, Matthew Thomas/FLORIDA STATE, Azeem Victor/WASHINGTON
RE: Where do you value Evans?  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13673009 adamg said:
Quote:
2nd round?


Would be a major steal. I think he is a top 20 overall guy. Potential of top 10
RE: RE: Thanks Sy  
adamg : 11/2/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13673010 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13672999 adamg said:


Quote:


If I can ask a couple questions

Any WLBs on the radar in the 3-4th round range?

Thoughts on WR Anthony Miller at Memphis?



I wrote up Miller a few weeks ago...love him. Gamer, has some Antonio Brown in him. Tough as nails.

Mid round LBs...Dorian O'Daniel/CLEMSON, Anthony Winbush/BALL STATE, Matthew Thomas/FLORIDA STATE, Azeem Victor/WASHINGTON


Thanks, man. You think there's room for him next to OBJ and Shep?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/2/2017 11:05 am : link
My gut tells me the Giants will be almost forced to draft a QB with the first pick.
RE: RE: RE: Thanks Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13673013 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13673010 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13672999 adamg said:


Quote:


If I can ask a couple questions

Any WLBs on the radar in the 3-4th round range?

Thoughts on WR Anthony Miller at Memphis?



I wrote up Miller a few weeks ago...love him. Gamer, has some Antonio Brown in him. Tough as nails.

Mid round LBs...Dorian O'Daniel/CLEMSON, Anthony Winbush/BALL STATE, Matthew Thomas/FLORIDA STATE, Azeem Victor/WASHINGTON



Thanks, man. You think there's room for him next to OBJ and Shep?


He's not the ideal fit...but I am all about getting the good players in and letting it work itself out...Let these guys compete for snaps/plays/targets is not a bad approach
RE: ...  
Sy'56 : 11/2/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13673020 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My gut tells me the Giants will be almost forced to draft a QB with the first pick.


SF trading for Garoppolo helps then...
Sy  
Andy in Boston : 11/2/2017 11:08 am : link
have never seen Rosen play. Is he a good athlete? can he run at all?
Sy what's your opinion  
iowagiant : 11/2/2017 11:11 am : link
on Lamar Jackson?
I'd love to be in the war room on draft night  
Dnew15 : 11/2/2017 11:11 am : link
If the scouts all love Barkley as much as when AP came out and also believe Rosen is a franchise like QB in the mold of a Carson Wentz type player... Imagine being a new GM and a new coach with those two options on the table.
RE: ...  
JonC : 11/2/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13673020 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My gut tells me the Giants will be almost forced to draft a QB with the first pick.


Potentially, it's not a bad year for it to happen. My concern is forcing (any) pick and the possibility the draft pick falls in the 7-10 range.
Sy..  
Sean : 11/2/2017 11:12 am : link
are all too 5 QB’s listed considerably more talented than Davis Webb in your opinion?
RE: RE: Any edge rushers  
Dankbeerman : 11/2/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13673004 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13672996 Dankbeerman said:


Quote:


that can project to a 4-3 OLB this year. Always a tough fit but feel we have been missing on, or trting to force a 3-4 guy into the position.

Also whats your read on Josh Adams. He seems like a big guy that doesnt, or doesnt have to use his body. Is that a tribute to him or his OL?



I'm not a huge Adams for the NFL guy....not yet. Don't like his build and he's had as much space to run in to as anyone. He is a solid athlete though, will break tackles, can runaway from guys. Similar to what SEA has in Prosise.

Lorenzo Carter from Georgia is an interesting edge guy that can play a 4-3 OLB role. I think Kennard has the spot locked down though. I think NYG needs more help on the weak side. Rashaan Evans is THE guy there.


Thanks

I feel Kenard's effectiveness as a pass rusher is more when he lines up at DE, think we need a guy that is a quicker more aggressive edge presence.
RE: ...  
BillKo : 11/2/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13673020 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My gut tells me the Giants will be almost forced to draft a QB with the first pick.


Huge mistake.

Don't be forced unless you really think the guy is there.

You've got two QBs on the roster already.

There will be QBs in next year's draft, and you can always trade up.

BPA!!!!!!!
stability at the QB position........  
BillKo : 11/2/2017 11:17 am : link
instability at the OL. It's the weakest link on this football team.

I'm almost hoping we fall to the position where taking the ND guard isn't considered a reach.



Dream draft is Barkley, and then trading back up for Nelson  
PatersonPlank : 11/2/2017 11:22 am : link
Starting RB and G in the draft's first two rounds.
RE: stability at the QB position........  
Sean : 11/2/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13673037 BillKo said:
Quote:
instability at the OL. It's the weakest link on this football team.

I'm almost hoping we fall to the position where taking the ND guard isn't considered a reach.




Did you want Robert Gallery in 2004?
I don't see why the Giants should feel forced to pick a QB  
Chris684 : 11/2/2017 11:24 am : link
unless they have #1 overall and Rosen is on fire by then.

Eli can still play and they spent a 3rd on Webb.

Barkley would be such a slam dunk for this team if they can stay within the 2-3 range.

Not saying force the pick  
JonC : 11/2/2017 11:26 am : link
but with Eli at 37 next season, you almost must grab the QB when you're picking high enough in the draft to secure one you feel could be the guy for the next era of the franchise.

The draft is about the future.
It's kind of Rosen or bust  
David B. : 11/2/2017 11:27 am : link
Let's see if Reese (assuming he's still GM) will do what Accorsi did to get Eli. And let's hope they don't have to move up too far to do it.
Thanks Sy!  
Section331 : 11/2/2017 11:27 am : link
I really like Josh Allen, reminds a little of Brandon Jacobs. And I agree that I wouldn't take a QB this year, until we have a chance to see what we have in Webb, and this class has not lived up to its hype. If Barkley is gone, I'd jump at ND OG Nelson, and maybe look at RB in rd 2.
should have included  
JonC : 11/2/2017 11:27 am : link
it also has much to do with the fact that it's looking like a weak crop of DE and LT, which figure to outweigh other positions, including RB/Barkley.
I would not take a Qb in the 1st.  
prdave73 : 11/2/2017 11:28 am : link
1st we don't know what we have in Webb yet, and 2nd the Oline is a complete mess. It should be the number one priority in the off season. I don't care who you get at QB, without an oline it doesn't matter. A great Oline makes everything better.. It all depends how the Draft plays out too.
Great to see Finley among the top 3 QB's  
Jints in Carolina : 11/2/2017 11:28 am : link
he has been great for NC State this year. Stands in the pocket, willing to take a hit to get the ball off.
RE: I would not take a Qb in the 1st.  
JonC : 11/2/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13673059 prdave73 said:
Quote:
1st we don't know what we have in Webb yet, and 2nd the Oline is a complete mess. It should be the number one priority in the off season. I don't care who you get at QB, without an oline it doesn't matter. A great Oline makes everything better.. It all depends how the Draft plays out too.


UFA before the draft to try and full urgent needs.

No drafting need in a vacuum, and unless they believe big in Webb, his presence shouldn't preclude them from picking a blue chip QB.

Got to maximize the VALUE in each pick.
If the Giants don't feel that Rosen  
Jay on the Island : 11/2/2017 11:40 am : link
Is the answer due to his attitude then I would prefer to see the Giants take Barkley, Brown, or Nelson in the 1st then trade back up to the end of the 1st to take Mayfield. I agree with those that believe if Mayfield was 3 inches taller he would be in the discussion for a top 5 pick.
Sy  
Jay on the Island : 11/2/2017 11:42 am : link
Where do you have Mayfield going in the draft? As for the 49ers it is great for the Giants that they traded for Garoppolo bc that likely takes them out of the hunt for a QB in the upcoming draft. Also the Browns may trade for McCarron after the season which would also take them out of the market for a QB for at least this season.
RE: RE: stability at the QB position........  
BillKo : 11/2/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13673044 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13673037 BillKo said:


Quote:


instability at the OL. It's the weakest link on this football team.

I'm almost hoping we fall to the position where taking the ND guard isn't considered a reach.






Did you want Robert Gallery in 2004?


I can't remember, but if I did, I'm not sure what your point is.

Teams are going to miss on players everywhere in the draft.

My point is to make sure you taking a QB because he can be here for 10 years, not forcing a pick that ends up out of the league in three.
I love Barkley as you do  
est1986 : 11/2/2017 11:42 am : link
And I would be happy with the RBs from LSU, USC or Stanford. I think Guice reminds me of Zeke.

What do you see when watching Derwin James? Can he fit here?
Assuming.....  
Reb8thVA : 11/2/2017 11:43 am : link
the Giants pick #3 and Darnold stays in school.

Browns- Rosen QB
49ers- Barlkley RB
Giants-?

Whose the pick?
RE: Fat man...  
jvm52106 : 11/2/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13672987 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Screw you jerkoff. I meant final season in college not senior. Sry I misspoke but my point is absolutely c o erect. Get a clue.


But, it isn't necessarily his final year. Plus, if struggles like this now and has time in college left then he should go back and work on it. Who is to say he isn't Tommy Maddox part 2... Maddox should have stayed in school..
RE: ...  
jvm52106 : 11/2/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13673020 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
My gut tells me the Giants will be almost forced to draft a QB with the first pick.


If Eli goes down and Webb gets in some games we might have an idea of where things can go. If not, all bets are off. BUT, if Reese goes so does McAdoo and that 100% means new QB. Could be a VET FA (Cousins) or more likely a top 10 draft pick...
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