Probably the most accurate commentary on where the league is right now.
In a nutshell he said to stop judging success of the league anywhere else but on the field. Says if you ask the league, they'll tell you London is a success, when in reality just about every game over there has been a complete bore and/or poorly played.
Says they need to halt Thursday night football immediately. Players hate it. Huge disadvantage for road team. Again, poorly played most of the time. The whole idea flies in the face of player safety.
I think the main highlight was his one remark "they need to judge success on the field". It's so true. The biggest problem is the product has deteriorated.
Starting next season they should abandon all Thursday night football except for Thanksgiving, where a triple header there is a special holiday treat. Sunday and Monday nights only, Thanksgiving, and then the double headers on Saturdays in December after the college regular season is over.
No more London. Stop taking home games away from teams/season ticket holders.
Review/re-examine/simplify what is a catch with a focus on touchdown catches.
Simplify review process.
Eliminate illegal contact. Stop awarding 1st downs on 3rd and 20 because two guys bumped elbows. PI and holding is all you need to keep it clean in the secondary.
Come up with a system of punishment for on vs off field transgressions. No more getting deflated footballs mixed up with pounding/raping women.
Finally, a personal pet peeve of mine, get rid of 1st half 2 minute warning.
I mock Francesa as much as anyone, and generally find him to be a clueless blowhard, but all of these points are eminently sensible.
+2.
I loved the December Saturday games.
The league right now is simply the product of greed and over-saturation which is diluting everything we see on the field.
We've already seen the NFL as good as it will ever be long ago. I don't ever see the league being quite as great as it once was - but it can (and should) be better than this.
The current draft is probably one of their few successful changes.
1) Realign the conferences and divisions. History and tradition are long gone.
2) Draft should be a lottery (not weighted, straight lottery) for all teams not in the playoffs and then set based on record and finish for the rest.
3) Schedules are too boring with everything laid out the way it is for years to come.
4) Teams should play all other same place teams in the league as part of their schedules, with the ones in the same conference getting two games (one home and one away). That would be 10 games and then 6 division games. So Teams like Dallas would get Green Bay twice, Atlanta twice, Seattle Twice and then the 4 Divsion leaders from the AFC. It would make strength of schedule match up far more than how it tends to now. Imagine next season if the Giants got Chicago, SF, TB twice, Cleveland, Indy, LAC and Jets along with 6 division games. A turn around could happen far more quickly for a number of teams.
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+2.
+3
A lot of the changes that fans would like would cost the owners money, so the odd of them happening are slim and none.
They have catered these new stadiums to big business to increase revenue, but no one is going to games anymore for the most part.
Being a kid and going to a game creates a long lasting memory, and creates a fan.
There is so much more competition from an entertainment standpoint on top of that. Why watch crappy Giants game where I have no emotional investment when I can turn on Netflix and watch Stranger Things?
A lot of the changes that fans would like would cost the owners money, so the odd of them happening are slim and none.
To date, yes. But when the product diminishes this much and fans start expressing it by ratings drops, less tickets sold, and less concessions bought, there will absolutely be some sort of change.
Thus far people have been dealing with it because "its the NFL" but theres a lot of us who are no longer letting them get away with business as usual.
They have catered these new stadiums to big business to increase revenue, but no one is going to games anymore for the most part.
Being a kid and going to a game creates a long lasting memory, and creates a fan.
There is so much more competition from an entertainment standpoint on top of that. Why watch crappy Giants game where I have no emotional investment when I can turn on Netflix and watch Stranger Things?
Doesn't that say more about the Giants performance and record than about the league. If the Giants were 7-0 you would watch the game and after watch Stranger Things.
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They have phased the normal fans out, which is preventing them from creating new NFL fans at a young age.
They have catered these new stadiums to big business to increase revenue, but no one is going to games anymore for the most part.
Being a kid and going to a game creates a long lasting memory, and creates a fan.
There is so much more competition from an entertainment standpoint on top of that. Why watch crappy Giants game where I have no emotional investment when I can turn on Netflix and watch Stranger Things?
Doesn't that say more about the Giants performance and record than about the league. If the Giants were 7-0 you would watch the game and after watch Stranger Things.
I'm talking league wide. Not just Giants. Entertainment is at everyone's finger tips whenever they want. I always watched the Giants play, never miss a game. I can remember my first game like yesterday. It costs $110 to sit in the upper deck now, just to get in. They are phasing normal people out, and they are finally seeing the effects of it on their product.
This is what happens when you select a guy to be commissioner whose previous job in the company was helping launch the NFL Network and securing television rights and agreements.
So say Giants play: Jets, Browns, Colts and Chargers next year:
Home vs Colts and Chargers and Away vs Jets and Browns.
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In comment 13674407 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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They have phased the normal fans out, which is preventing them from creating new NFL fans at a young age.
They have catered these new stadiums to big business to increase revenue, but no one is going to games anymore for the most part.
Being a kid and going to a game creates a long lasting memory, and creates a fan.
There is so much more competition from an entertainment standpoint on top of that. Why watch crappy Giants game where I have no emotional investment when I can turn on Netflix and watch Stranger Things?
Doesn't that say more about the Giants performance and record than about the league. If the Giants were 7-0 you would watch the game and after watch Stranger Things.
I'm talking league wide. Not just Giants. Entertainment is at everyone's finger tips whenever they want. I always watched the Giants play, never miss a game. I can remember my first game like yesterday. It costs $110 to sit in the upper deck now, just to get in. They are phasing normal people out, and they are finally seeing the effects of it on their product.
That doesn't include $30 to park.
So a dad who wants to take his young son or daughter to afootball game is lucky if he gets in just for $250. Most likely he'll pay more.
I myself lost 100 bucks because I bet the Giants would win 10 games this year( I would have pushed and gotten my money back if they won 9) I was looking forward to Thanksgiving evening after a nice meal watch the Giants. It all sucks
I myself lost 100 bucks because I bet the Giants would win 10 games this year( I would have pushed and gotten my money back if they won 9) I was looking forward to Thanksgiving evening after a nice meal watch the Giants. It all sucks
I complained just as much last year at 11-5. I've been complaining about the downward trend of the NFL for a few years actually. Its bad, really bad.
A lot of the changes that fans would like would cost the owners money, so the odd of them happening are slim and none.
This.
The London games are a bore, a hassle for teams, and played at a time that people don't watch football.
But, it's a money maker.
So it stays.
As far as the overseas games, I don’t really care for them but I do like the Thursday games. For either or there should be an additional bye week, and teams playing a Thursday or overseas game should be coming off a bye. The big objection to the Thursday game is lack of prep and recovery time so the extra bye would address these issues.
Replay sucks. It doesn’t actually solve any more problems than it creates. Let the officials officiate and let the players play.
Back afta’ dis...
Here's the difference. You had fewer options. Listen to the game or go outside and play. Today, I can get whatever entertainment (Game, Netflix, etc.) I want in an instant on my phone, tab, computer. My team sucks, I can do 1000 other things. You probably had 5 and the Giants were the most entertaining. There is so much more things to compete with now then ever before.
Nope, none of the kids have any interest in going. I can't even find a friend to go with me.
P.S. I'm not looking for a friend
Just get the officials out of our fucking faces. No one wants it. Im not advocating lawlessness, but college has it all over the NFL in this regard. They officiate the game while not OVERofficiating the game. Its unwatchable.
The product itself is so bad, league wide, that I just stopped watching altogether. If it isn't the Giants I don't watch. I think I've watched the non giant games this year. If the nfl doesn't care why should i
But Francesa saying the league should judge success by the product on the field is crazy. You might as well proclaim that the NFL should stop selling alcohol at games.
Jerry Jones wouldn't care is the cowboys went 0-16 for a decade as long as the money keeps coming in and the merchandise keeps selling. It's never been about the sport for these owners. Success is judged by profit margins and growth projections.
The reality is that most games, unless betting on, are damn near unwatchable.
Add in boring and scripted announcers, you have a recipe for boredom.
My suggestion is cut out Thursday and London games, the Mexico city games might work.
And most of all cut down on the boring repetition of pre /post game mindless chatter.
Especially remove Riddel and his awful schtick
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guess times have changed. When I was a kid, the home games were not televised. We use to have to listen on the radio.Never went to any games and I was and of course still are a huge Giant fans. So now unless you can go to a game, you can't be a fan of the team?
Here's the difference. You had fewer options. Listen to the game or go outside and play. Today, I can get whatever entertainment (Game, Netflix, etc.) I want in an instant on my phone, tab, computer. My team sucks, I can do 1000 other things. You probably had 5 and the Giants were the most entertaining. There is so much more things to compete with now then ever before.
Good point. Hell pong wasn't even around then LOL.
Polian and the Colts really did alot of damage with having the rules changed because they couldnt beat New England's style of physical secondary play.
By the way, I should have noted up top, Francesa only covered the topics of Thursday night football, over-saturation and London, all other ideas are my own whether you agree or disagree with them.
I really miss the Saturday December games, those were fun and a nice change up.
And I wouldn't care if they got rid of Monday Night Football either.
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but I think he's been spot on the entire time about the NFL. Its getting really bad.
I mock Francesa as much as anyone, and generally find him to be a clueless blowhard, but all of these points are eminently sensible.
A lot of the changes that fans would like would cost the owners money, so the odd of them happening are slim and none.
Some of the other points about rules changes I can get behind, as well. But, this is the most glaring thing I think needs addressing.
Link - ( New Window )
They have the exclusive on the NFL network for it. So yeah... they are making money
+1.
Jags, Rams, Browns,Miami? the 'regulars' for London.
Problem w/London: if the goal is going international, and if London has been successful: financially-attendance-selling the jerseys, to date; and you pull the games, London will throw you the delightful digit when you look to put the Jags?, or add a team, there.
People are right that the owners will go by what puts more $$ in their pocket (I heard this morning that TNF nets an addit $1B?) and let's not forget the players get a cut of that extra $$.
but... and here is where most people are short sighted... if the product sucks and continues to deteriorate... eventually it will show up in the wallets. People won't pay to see dreck for very long - it is hard but eventually we will pull ourselves away from this sport we love so much, precisely b/c we love it so much and can't bear to watch what it's become.
and then it will be too late to do anything about it as you will have lost an entire generation of fans.
Don't look at this year compared to last, just think about how much better the NFL was going back 5 or 10 years, let alone back to the 80s or 90s before the salary cap took off.
One change after another that just kept degrading the product on the field - FA and the salary cap, not expanding rosters as injuries increased, fiddling with the rules to increase scoring, adding a Thursday game, adding international games, overcomplicating the rules as different situations caused controversy (the Dez Bryant catch, the celebration rules, etc.).
The genie is out of the bottle now - we're stuck with TNF and London, whether we like it or not. No way the teams are giving up that revenue.
But they can make some other changes that will cost them money - increase roster sizes, come up with a meaningful practice squad setup (the current system is a joke), more IR spots and/or different designations, an extra bye week, etc. The next CBA could include some concessions between owners and players that would hopefully yield more practice time.
All of these things will cost money, but would have an almost immediate and measurable impact on the product on the field. The question is - has the NFL felt enough pain yet to get them to consider some changes, or do revenues have to worsen first?
Of course they do. They take one game out of the Sunday games at 1 and make it a primetime game.
He had a million flaws, but in that one way I wish more owners were like him.
He had a million flaws, but in that one way I wish more owners were like him.
Forget more owners - how about his direct descendants? Those fuckers inherited a mint and you always get the feeling they're running around Yankee Stadium turning lights off in their spare time.
People are right that the owners will go by what puts more $$ in their pocket (I heard this morning that TNF nets an addit $1B?) and let's not forget the players get a cut of that extra $$.
but... and here is where most people are short sighted... if the product sucks and continues to deteriorate... eventually it will show up in the wallets. People won't pay to see dreck for very long - it is hard but eventually we will pull ourselves away from this sport we love so much, precisely b/c we love it so much and can't bear to watch what it's become.
and then it will be too late to do anything about it as you will have lost an entire generation of fans.
It's not the fans that are shortsighted. You have an entire generation of Owners that have never known anything but raking in money. Owners who have never had to build anything or compete with another league or do anything to grow the league.
Everything that the NFL has done since Goodell took over as Commissioner has been to capitalize and monetize on the massive popularity that was built up through the years. There are people running the sport who think they're geniuses because this sport makes them filthy rich, who think THEY're responsible for the sport being a cash cow. They started off on third base, walked home on a wild pitch, and started thinking they were a great slugger.
They won't admit there's some kind of issue to be fixed until another league makes more money than they do, or the ratings fall off a cliff, or the stadiums empty.
Now, obviously weeknights in or around New York City are going to affect attendance with rush hour, the weekly work schedule, etc. That said, the weather was beautiful, the Jets have been playing decent football and definitely overachieving so far, and tickets were probably very reasonably priced and still not a big turnout.
Eric showed some screen grabs of stadiums across the league a few weeks ago. People are not turning out like they once were.
Thank God for the NBA.
Thank God for the NBA.
Ouch, things must be really bad if the NBA uplifts your spirits.
I'm talking league wide. Not just Giants. Entertainment is at everyone's finger tips whenever they want. I always watched the Giants play, never miss a game. I can remember my first game like yesterday. It costs $110 to sit in the upper deck now, just to get in. They are phasing normal people out, and they are finally seeing the effects of it on their product.
I used to enjoy going to games. I would look at the schedule when it came out to see what game I could attend.
You know what cured me? I was considering whether or not to go to a Giants game at Carolina as I live in NC. I had a hockey game that evening that I would have missed, but to get to go to a game was enticing. I decided not to go. The Giants lost the game 38-0. If I would have gone I would have spent at least $500 on tickets, parking, food - it's at least a two hour drive to Charlotte - plus I would have missed my hockey game just to watch them lose by 38. I would have been miserable and blown $500 for the opportunity to be miserable. Now I don't care if I ever attend another game.
It s finally starting to produce consequences.
But until pocket book is impacted, which could happen if ratings continue to drop along withattendance, there will be no change.
You think the PSL Mara's are giving up their Thursday night football money because the games suck or players get hurt?
You think the Mara's are going to vote to end their London money because it sucks for the fans and the games suck?
There's a daily Kaepernick thread on this board and it seems most of the people who post to it don't understand he's out of the league because he cost the league MONEY.
Nothing else matters to the people who own NFL teams. Their talk is bullshit. Their community interest is bullshit. Their wanting to win above all else is bullshit.
Profits, Ratings, Tax Breaks and PSL's are the only things they have a real interest interest in.
I used to watch the pregame and postgame shows. No longer. I don't turn the game on until kickoff, and I don't watch the halftime shows either. It has become a sideshow, with too many talking heads.
I can't afford to go to games anymore. My husband and I used to go to a couple of games a year. We haven't been to one in more than 12 years (we went to the post-Katrina, Giants-NO game).
With all of the rule changes, it is hard to follow what is a catch, what isn't, among the other nonsense. I've thought the league needed full-time officials for a while. I used to cringe every time I saw that Jerry Markbreit was officiating a game because I knew it was going to be a disaster.
We used to load up on new Giants gear every year in anticipation of season (shirts, jerseys, etc.). I don't even know the last time we did that.
I'm no Goodell fan. I don't agree with a lot of the changes he has made.
There has been so much outside crap with the NFL now that it is hard to just enjoy the games.
We have had many, many discussions over at least the last SB about how many of us are losing interest in the league as whole. It's been a long time since I watched more than a handful of non-Giants games in a season.
Not only the tremendous talent and level of play, but a commissioner that actually looks out for his players, is conscious socially, and knows how to market his game to younger generations. Goodell could learn a lot from Silver.
I can understand if the lack of parity reduces your interest. But it's precisely that parity that has helped erode the quality of play in the NFL. The NBA is doing it right and the level of interest worldwide shows
They can also stand to shorten their regular season.
Pretty good, but not without its own issues.
USFL . Football was Football and you played for pride and it was all about winning .
Watching some of these clowns they run a couple of routes and come out for a blow . You either had to be knocked out or couldn't stand before you would come out of the game .
Watching feed me after 6 yard run for a 1st down in the 4th quarter makes me want to kick him in the nuts .
Every damn pass play they throw up there hands for a flag .
The refs are horrific they put so much crap on the screen you can hardly watch the game .
I like Mike yeah he's overbearing and whay not but I give him credit for staying credible for many years and sure he is easy to joke about as well .
the rules are just overly complex as to what is a catch blah, blah, blah. It's exhausting and seems just arbitrary.
I think they have just screwed the game up to the point where nonsensical plays occur.
Everyone but the owners. That, and the London/Mexico games are going to be the last things they ever change - way too much money at stake.
No wonder the league wants high scoring games....
The owners had a 'cash cow' and could have reaped the benefits for years and years. But they were too greedy, wanting more and more.
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old draft format-- saturday and sunday-- and make it less of a traveling spectacle.
The current draft is probably one of their few successful changes.
In your opinion!
It's like saying you should judge a guy in sales by how nice he is and how well he dresses rather than how much he sells.
More time slots=more revenue. That's the bottom line.
Plus, I like having Thursday games and early Sunday games. So, it is really a personal preference. Also how is playing on Thursday more "unsafe" than playing on Sunday.
It's typical Francesa. All his personal prejudices strung out into a faux argument.
It's like saying you should judge a guy in sales by how nice he is and how well he dresses rather than how much he sells.
More time slots=more revenue. That's the bottom line.
Plus, I like having Thursday games and early Sunday games. So, it is really a personal preference. Also how is playing on Thursday more "unsafe" than playing on Sunday.
It's typical Francesa. All his personal prejudices strung out into a faux argument.
No, it's not idiotic because Francessa isn't claiming that's how they view success, but rather how they *should* view success.
And he's taking a longer term view. Revenue growth has declined - it's not a big stretch to say at some point they turn negative and start shrinking. How long do you wait to make changes to prevent that from happening?
Problem is, I don't see the owners thinking they have anything more than an environmental cycle on their hands. They probably figure this is a symptom of cord cutting and some of the political nonsense, and once that settles they'll be back to making money hand over fist. It's not surprise that they crammed so many new stadiums in the past few years, though, they've obviously been gearing up for leaner times.
1) Realign the conferences and divisions. History and tradition are long gone.
2) Draft should be a lottery (not weighted, straight lottery) for all teams not in the playoffs and then set based on record and finish for the rest.
3) Schedules are too boring with everything laid out the way it is for years to come.
4) Teams should play all other same place teams in the league as part of their schedules, with the ones in the same conference getting two games (one home and one away). That would be 10 games and then 6 division games. So Teams like Dallas would get Green Bay twice, Atlanta twice, Seattle Twice and then the 4 Divsion leaders from the AFC. It would make strength of schedule match up far more than how it tends to now. Imagine next season if the Giants got Chicago, SF, TB twice, Cleveland, Indy, LAC and Jets along with 6 division games. A turn around could happen far more quickly for a number of teams.
It's like saying you should judge a guy in sales by how nice he is and how well he dresses rather than how much he sells.
More time slots=more revenue. That's the bottom line.
Plus, I like having Thursday games and early Sunday games. So, it is really a personal preference. Also how is playing on Thursday more "unsafe" than playing on Sunday.
It's typical Francesa. All his personal prejudices strung out into a faux argument.
You didn't get his point at all. And what business isn't about the bottom line? The NFL has a huge problem on their hands as they have people left and right limiting their viewing or flat out no longer watching for any number of reasons.
And yeah, players trotting out on 3/4 days rest is really good for the body. Christ, do you actually think that's ok?
It's like saying you should judge a guy in sales by how nice he is and how well he dresses rather than how much he sells.
More time slots=more revenue. That's the bottom line.
Plus, I like having Thursday games and early Sunday games. So, it is really a personal preference. Also how is playing on Thursday more "unsafe" than playing on Sunday.
It's typical Francesa. All his personal prejudices strung out into a faux argument.
Has there ever been one single player on record that has agreed with your opinion that playing games on Thursdays is no more unsafe than on Sundays? I’ve seen tons of players complaining about player safety when discussing Thursdays, but never have seen one yet agree with your opinion.
I guess it’s no more unsafe when you’re sitting on your couch drinking beer and watching them on tv. Is that what you meant?