He is missing wide open receivers. His pocket awareness with feeling pressure keeps getting worse and he fumbled twice, losing one of them. That throw into double coverage looks like a rookie mistake.
I hate to admit this, but Eli Manning is part of the problem of why this offense is so atrocious.
It's a causal relationship though. A good OL can hide a QB's deficiencies, see Prescott, Dak.
A bad OL will cripple your team. Fix the line, and you can win at quarterback with a good running game and a good defense.
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I think it's just time for a change. A 37 year old QB isn't getting any younger. I'm done with 'Lets win 1 more before Eli retires' stuff. It's not about that anymore. It has to be about the long term future of this franchise, not the next couple years.
The "Let's win 1 more before Eli retires" mantra has been used as an organizational mantra in a lot of ways for a number of their personnel decisions and it has backfired spectacularly.
Exactly. And some fans are using it because they are bigger fans of particular players than they are of the actual team. If Eli isn't done yet, he's not far from it. If we have a top 3 pick this year, which it's looking like we will more and more every week, you go for the QB, especially in a draft that is not filled with great offensive lineman.
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In comment 13677231 Dave in Hoboken said:
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I think it's just time for a change. A 37 year old QB isn't getting any younger. I'm done with 'Lets win 1 more before Eli retires' stuff. It's not about that anymore. It has to be about the long term future of this franchise, not the next couple years.
The "Let's win 1 more before Eli retires" mantra has been used as an organizational mantra in a lot of ways for a number of their personnel decisions and it has backfired spectacularly.
Exactly. And some fans are using it because they are bigger fans of particular players than they are of the actual team. If Eli isn't done yet, he's not far from it. If we have a top 3 pick this year, which it's looking like we will more and more every week, you go for the QB, especially in a draft that is not filled with great offensive lineman.
There are just as many questions about the QBs in this draft as there are about the OL. Quite frankly, I don’t trust the draftniks or scouts or whomever when it comes to evaluating the OL coming out. A few years ago the draft was supposed to be loaded at OL with guys like Greg Robinson as can’t miss, and most turned out to be busts. Last year the class was supposed to suck, and guys like Cam Robinson and Ramcyk are playing integral roles in their team’s success.
There’s always a “franchise qb” available every draft ever year when you’re picking at the top of the draft. Doesn’t mean there’s actually a franchise qb there waiting.
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In comment 13677732 BigBlueinChicago said:
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In comment 13677231 Dave in Hoboken said:
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I think it's just time for a change. A 37 year old QB isn't getting any younger. I'm done with 'Lets win 1 more before Eli retires' stuff. It's not about that anymore. It has to be about the long term future of this franchise, not the next couple years.
The "Let's win 1 more before Eli retires" mantra has been used as an organizational mantra in a lot of ways for a number of their personnel decisions and it has backfired spectacularly.
Exactly. And some fans are using it because they are bigger fans of particular players than they are of the actual team. If Eli isn't done yet, he's not far from it. If we have a top 3 pick this year, which it's looking like we will more and more every week, you go for the QB, especially in a draft that is not filled with great offensive lineman.
There are just as many questions about the QBs in this draft as there are about the OL. Quite frankly, I don’t trust the draftniks or scouts or whomever when it comes to evaluating the OL coming out. A few years ago the draft was supposed to be loaded at OL with guys like Greg Robinson as can’t miss, and most turned out to be busts. Last year the class was supposed to suck, and guys like Cam Robinson and Ramcyk are playing integral roles in their team’s success.
There’s always a “franchise qb” available every draft ever year when you’re picking at the top of the draft. Doesn’t mean there’s actually a franchise qb there waiting.
Same can be said for top tier OL, especially this year.
What kind of return are the Packers getting on Rodgers cap number now? Rodgers turns 35 next year — does he have osteoporosis at his age and should the Packers look for a QB too?
If we had a good defense, a decent running game, and an offensive line, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But, when your starting offense includes guys like Roger Lewis, John Jerry, and Bobby Hart, you have to give the guy with HOF (near HOF, whichever) a little bit of slack. Yes, I realize he's 37 years old, but unlike his brother, he has not yet suffered a debilitating neck injury. Should we think about life after Eli? Sure. Should we force a number 1 pick on a QB just because he is a QB? No.
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I would clarify the point by saying ‘Eli + his cap number’ is 100% an obvious disadvantage to the current and future team success. When you’ve got a top 5 salary cap number you’d better be Rodgers or Brady. We are getting Josh McCown type production for that huge cap number. Can’t really deny any of the above.
What kind of return are the Packers getting on Rodgers cap number now? Rodgers turns 35 next year — does he have osteoporosis at his age and should the Packers look for a QB too?
Rodgers is one of the best QB's of all time. Eli Manning is not. And if when Rodgers comes back he struggles mightily for the next couple of years in a row; then yeah; they'll be really concerned in GB..
To me, you get rid of Reese, McAdoo, and the rest of the staff and you get vintage Manning...assuming the new regime can manage to bring in 3 or 4 new OL to start.
You can still absolutely win with Eli, but a new football administration will not want to start with a 37 year QB.
He had sufficient time to throw, deep guys open, guys open with some easy touch passes and others on underneath crossing routes. This on top of a decent running game in the first half.
He missed way too many throws AND didn't take care of the ball.
the fact of the matter is while our OL isn't good - but many OL aren't great In NFL now the difference is these teams have mobile QBs that can extend plays and avoid sacks
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In comment 13678078 BlueManFu said:
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I would clarify the point by saying ‘Eli + his cap number’ is 100% an obvious disadvantage to the current and future team success. When you’ve got a top 5 salary cap number you’d better be Rodgers or Brady. We are getting Josh McCown type production for that huge cap number. Can’t really deny any of the above.
What kind of return are the Packers getting on Rodgers cap number now? Rodgers turns 35 next year — does he have osteoporosis at his age and should the Packers look for a QB too?
Rodgers is one of the best QB's of all time. Eli Manning is not. And if when Rodgers comes back he struggles mightily for the next couple of years in a row; then yeah; they'll be really concerned in GB..
Ok then don’t hide your argument behind Eli’s age. Just say you don’t think Eli is any good and you think the Giants should move on.
Realistically, the Packers should be more worried than the Giants re: the qb position — Rogers has actually gotten hurt a decent amount, he’s getting older, and his style of play doesn’t age well.
He had sufficient time to throw, deep guys open, guys open with some easy touch passes and others on underneath crossing routes. This on top of a decent running game in the first half.
He missed way too many throws AND didn't take care of the ball.
I'm not sure you understand team chemistry. A qb's timing with his targets are vital, also take into account that Macs offense seems to be terrible all the way around.
Mac did have success as OC, but keep these few things in mind, teams may have adjusted, and coughlin still had his offense mixed into the offense. When coughlin left there is a very good chance Mac got rid of the coughlin part of the offense, which would explain why the offense suddenly went to crap.
Manning has shown he can make the throws, he didn't just suddenly lose it, but right now he's severely handicapped. Thanks is team isn't just a bad team, it's arguably a bad team without effort which is much worse
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is in denial.
He had sufficient time to throw, deep guys open, guys open with some easy touch passes and others on underneath crossing routes. This on top of a decent running game in the first half.
He missed way too many throws AND didn't take care of the ball.
I'm not sure you understand team chemistry. A qb's timing with his targets are vital, also take into account that Macs offense seems to be terrible all the way around.
Mac did have success as OC, but keep these few things in mind, teams may have adjusted, and coughlin still had his offense mixed into the offense. When coughlin left there is a very good chance Mac got rid of the coughlin part of the offense, which would explain why the offense suddenly went to crap.
Manning has shown he can make the throws, he didn't just suddenly lose it, but right now he's severely handicapped. Thanks is team isn't just a bad team, it's arguably a bad team without effort which is much worse
While not extreme, you are in more denial than you are not.
And nobody said Eli suddenly lost it, you just missed the signs for the past several years...
Like poor marksmen, you keep missing the target. You aren't fixing anything unless you fix the organization. The front office sucks and the interfering owners are serial bunglers. Wake the fuck up already.
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In comment 13678306 Jimmy Googs said:
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is in denial.
He had sufficient time to throw, deep guys open, guys open with some easy touch passes and others on underneath crossing routes. This on top of a decent running game in the first half.
He missed way too many throws AND didn't take care of the ball.
I'm not sure you understand team chemistry. A qb's timing with his targets are vital, also take into account that Macs offense seems to be terrible all the way around.
Mac did have success as OC, but keep these few things in mind, teams may have adjusted, and coughlin still had his offense mixed into the offense. When coughlin left there is a very good chance Mac got rid of the coughlin part of the offense, which would explain why the offense suddenly went to crap.
Manning has shown he can make the throws, he didn't just suddenly lose it, but right now he's severely handicapped. Thanks is team isn't just a bad team, it's arguably a bad team without effort which is much worse
While not extreme, you are in more denial than you are not.
And nobody said Eli suddenly lost it, you just missed the signs for the past several years...
I don't agree. I laid out a few possible reasons above, but there are more than just those. We'll agree we don't see it the same, no problem.
Those days are done as he is a negative one now...
what you say here happens to all QBs and right now its happening to Eli, most good QBs end up on the scrap heap because they stayed around too long and Eli is ding that right now because the money is so good..
But the real question is whether you want to do a major rebuild around a 37 year old QB. I just don't see that as an intelligent approach when you have the opportunity to possibly draft your next franchise QB.
He is not the only problem, but he is not part of the solution as well. Look at how often he fumbles as well,
been dong that his whole career too. It's amazing how people tend to neglect that aspect of his game.
They need to draft a QB, let Eli play one more year,
and move on.
He can finish his career elsewhere, if he wants to
keep playing.
You can't have him on the books for about 40 Mill. the next two years, makes no sense.
this team has given up. its all due to the coach this new offense he implemented is just terrible, they cant run they ball, they dont run the ball when they can and they only thwo it 5 yards the qb is not the problem, its the coach
[quote] up their mind.
"All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good."
Yikes .... didn't they hire Mac because he was suppose to be some kind of offensive genius?
Letting TC go was like keeping Allie Sherman and letting Vince Lombardi go to the Packers.
And Eli is the problem? Eli isn't a runner. Never has been. Which QB who isn't a runner is succeeding in this offense?
Brady? Even when he had this situation, he was manhandled by the Chiefs and everyone thought he was done. The biggest difference is that he had Bill Belichick running the show who adapts his schemes and strategies to match his personnel. An even if Brady could succeed with this offense, there are many who consider him the single greatest QB of all time (though I'm not one of them).
QBs are not supposed to be facing immediate pressure all game while facing variants of Cover 2.
Someone tell me how a good non-running QB is making this offense work having to throw into pass coverage to guys like King, Lewis and Rudolph?
There are a lot of reasons this offense has been so bad for 2 seasons, but I'm sorry, Eli is one of those reasons.
How does a two time SB MVP have to call timeout early in the first half and second half because the play clock was gonna run out.
His ball security in the pocket is not very good for a 2 time SB MVP.
Yes, he has two WRs on IR and a poor OL, but when he's had time he has made inaccurate throws.
Can Eli play better and win another championship in the NFL? Maybe.
My gut feeling after watching that game Sunday was that he looked like a QB who was done.
I'd also like to see the play again, but I remember feeling surprised that Sheppard didn't jump or lay out for it. It looked within arm's reach.
I really don't see what Eli is supposed to do in these situations.
There are a lot of reasons this offense has been so bad for 2 seasons, but I'm sorry, Eli is one of those reasons.
What a crock of sh-t. Eli is scared?
A lot of people keep saying that, and I'm not sure if it's because it's what they want, or what they believe.
Gun to your head, who is the starting QB of the Giants week one next season?
Do I want to move on? Yes, but only because I don't see us winning with Eli, not because I don't like and appreciate Eli. As far as next year, I'm hoping there is a QB that we like that we draft early and trade Eli for assets.
Again, REALISTICALLY, who is the starting QB for the Giants week 1, next year?
I keep reading that Eli is done with the Giants....
1. He has two years left on his contract.
2. He has a no trade clause
3. There is not a viable replacement for him right now
4. Even if you draft one, why wouldn't you let him sit and learn behind one of the most professional workers in the league?
5. The offense, as currently constructed and coached, is not going to allow any QB to be successful.
6. The new coach has a bunch of reasons to keep Manning around. The league is built with parity so teams can turn things around quickly. There actually IS talent on this roster. A couple of thrifty offensive line signings by the new GM, and a new offensive philosophy, the new coach might be able to get something together and having a veteran QB to manage it is an asset.
7. The new coach could also hedge his bets by keeping Manning around while grooming his replacement, and if things go bad early, he can sit Manning (like Warner), and go with the rookie. Which would buy him some time because hey, it's a rookie QB that has to go through growing pains.
There is pretty much ZERO logical reasoning that says Eli Manning is done as a Giant.
Wishful thinking by some, perhaps, but not reality.
Again, REALISTICALLY, who is the starting QB for the Giants week 1, next year?
I keep reading that Eli is done with the Giants....
1. He has two years left on his contract.
2. He has a no trade clause
3. There is not a viable replacement for him right now
4. Even if you draft one, why wouldn't you let him sit and learn behind one of the most professional workers in the league?
5. The offense, as currently constructed and coached, is not going to allow any QB to be successful.
6. The new coach has a bunch of reasons to keep Manning around. The league is built with parity so teams can turn things around quickly. There actually IS talent on this roster. A couple of thrifty offensive line signings by the new GM, and a new offensive philosophy, the new coach might be able to get something together and having a veteran QB to manage it is an asset.
7. The new coach could also hedge his bets by keeping Manning around while grooming his replacement, and if things go bad early, he can sit Manning (like Warner), and go with the rookie. Which would buy him some time because hey, it's a rookie QB that has to go through growing pains.
There is pretty much ZERO logical reasoning that says Eli Manning is done as a Giant.
Wishful thinking by some, perhaps, but not reality.
I happen to agree that Eli is the starter 2018 Week 1, but there’s an equally logical possibility that y
If a new GM and coach come in, and the decision is that the roster is a complete tear-down project, they may choose to cut Eli in the offseason simply to take the entire dead cap in 2018 and be done with it.
Again, not saying it’s likely. It does make some business sense though, depending on the direction being taken.
Keep in mind, cutting him next year means the rookie QB or Webb is the day 1 starter.
Link - ( New Window )
As of right now, he is the starting QB in 2018 and 2019. He's under contract for those years.
Cutting a 2-time SB MVP QB would not sit well with me or other fans.
I could take trading him, but cutting him is wrong IMO.
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the Giants could cut him outright and save $9.8 million against next year's cap (though they'd also have to eat a $12.4 million dead-money charge). If they keep him for 2018, they could cut him after that season and save $17 million against their 2019 cap (with a dead-money charge of $6.2 million).
Keep in mind, cutting him next year means the rookie QB or Webb is the day 1 starter. Link - ( New Window )
You’d have to ask whoever the GM is. If next year is viewed as a wash, having a completely clean slate for 2019 could easily be viewed as the better of those two alternatives.
But you are right, it is the next GM's decision to make.
1. I think he's done winning in NY. I don't think we will be able to build a team Eli can win on in NY.
2. I think the Giants owe it to Eli to put him in a better situation. Explore a trade that Eli agrees with or cut him and let him go wherever he wants.
And pointedly, I don't want him to be and I have been an Eli supporter thru the years.
The team has to start over at the base before this will get better. And even if that means some other veteran backup type QB is starting day one before we put in Webb or a new franchise drafted QB than so be it.
If Eli is on the team it will slow down this rebuilding...