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Eli Manning is DONE

EddieNYG : 11/5/2017 2:38 pm
He is missing wide open receivers. His pocket awareness with feeling pressure keeps getting worse and he fumbled twice, losing one of them. That throw into double coverage looks like a rookie mistake.

I hate to admit this, but Eli Manning is part of the problem of why this offense is so atrocious.
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agree  
micky : 11/5/2017 2:39 pm : link
unfortunately
.  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2017 2:41 pm : link
I still think Eli would be able to produce in the right offense. But we don't have that offense right now.

Eli isn't the type of QB who can overcome poor pass pro and a severe lack of weapons at this stage.

He can't carry a team like he did in 2011. He's older now - he's not Tom Brady. It is what it is.
Disagree  
mrvax : 11/5/2017 2:41 pm : link
Eli has no time back there to throw the ball. Fix that first and then we'll talk. Brady would suck if you plugged him in for Manning.
Losing doesn't always bring  
prdave73 : 11/5/2017 2:41 pm : link
out the best in players.
Impossible to evaluate given the state of the roster.  
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:42 pm : link
.
He has ALWAYS made those bad passes  
KentGraham : 11/5/2017 2:42 pm : link
The difference is he is no longer making the plays that made us forget the bad ones. This team is done, so I won't single him out and blame this season on him, but hopefully he's not the QB next year, it's time to move on. And it kills me to say that.
Also agree with Mrvax..  
prdave73 : 11/5/2017 2:42 pm : link
You can't expect much with Giants Oline. Sorry..
The organization's first mistake was letting go of TC  
SHO'NUFF : 11/5/2017 2:42 pm : link
The second mistake will be letting go of Eli.
Draft a QB  
Ben in Tampa : 11/5/2017 2:44 pm : link
And let Eli play out his deal
he is missing more  
Dankbeerman : 11/5/2017 2:45 pm : link
then he used to. he doesnt have they same ability to get the ball where he wants. he is taking hits on most of his misses though. not sure he is done but definate regression
With Roger Lewis  
NoPeanutz : 11/5/2017 2:45 pm : link
Tavaris King and Travis Rudolph trying to get open, with that kindergarten O-line, I'm shocked anybody can evaluate Manning. (in the rain!)
RE: he is missing more  
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:46 pm : link
In comment 13676403 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
then he used to. he doesnt have they same ability to get the ball where he wants. he is taking hits on most of his misses though. not sure he is done but definate regression


He is also playing with guys that were on the couch 3 weeks ago.

Chemistry is important.
Are you blind. He has had plenty of time, particulalry  
Jimmy Googs : 11/5/2017 2:47 pm : link
on the throws he has missed.

He's playing awful and worse than anybody on that Offense right now...
This is  
Reb8thVA : 11/5/2017 2:47 pm : link
Silly 😜
Eli has time to throw  
EddieNYG : 11/5/2017 2:47 pm : link
And he is missing WIDE open WRs today.

I've been the biggest Eli Manning defender/supporter, but he looks like an old, washed up QB.
Huge Eli supporter but it's over.  
Miami_JintsFan : 11/5/2017 2:48 pm : link
He's missing so many throws even when he has time. The WCO is taking away what he did best. Interesting to see how it all ends but Eli has earned great respect for what hes done.
Goff was done last year too  
WillVAB : 11/5/2017 2:49 pm : link
Now he’s the next Brady.

Funny how a legitimate coaching staff and the right player acquisitions can change the perception of a QB.
He's missing open receivers  
George : 11/5/2017 2:50 pm : link
and throwing into double coverage. Remarkable that he's doing both.

We all knew he wouldn't play forever; now it's time to admit that his time has come.
I'm not going to sit here and argue with people that have made  
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:50 pm : link
up their mind.

All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good.

If you want to pin that all on one guy, go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm also done wasting my time arguing about it.

Here's the deal. Eli will be the starting QB for the Giants next year. He's not getting bench, Webb is likely not the future, and Eli, barring catastrophic injury, WILL BE THE STARTING QB OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS WEEK ONE OF 2018.

It's a lock.
RE: Goff was done last year too  
EddieNYG : 11/5/2017 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13676422 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Now he’s the next Brady.

Funny how a legitimate coaching staff and the right player acquisitions can change the perception of a QB.


Goff was a ROOKIE.

Eli is a two-time Super Bowl MVP.

Big difference
.  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2017 2:52 pm : link
The biggest problem is that so many people here have to have it one way or another.

Either Eli is the problem or his circumstances are the problem.

Here's the truth...

Eli hasn't played well, but has also been hurt by poor protection, injuries and some crappy coaching.

It actually CAN be both things.
There is no excuse  
hassan : 11/5/2017 2:53 pm : link
he is missing open players period. Watch younger players drafted at qb--make plays Eli doesnt escaping rush.

Eli is a NY legend and deserves better than this in a lot of ways. But there is no transformation for NYG that will turn it around. He will only decline go forward.

And comparing Goff to Eli? Goff was a rookie! Nobody crapped on Eli for his bad 2004 games. What an inappropriate and terrible comparison.
RE: .  
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13676436 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The biggest problem is that so many people here have to have it one way or another.

Either Eli is the problem or his circumstances are the problem.

Here's the truth...

Eli hasn't played well, but has also been hurt by poor protection, injuries and some crappy coaching.

It actually CAN be both things.


Sure it can, but how can you evaluate it? I know we have a bunch of professional scouts here on BBI, but still...
RE: There is no excuse  
EddieNYG : 11/5/2017 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13676440 hassan said:
Quote:
he is missing open players period. Watch younger players drafted at qb--make plays Eli doesnt escaping rush.

Eli is a NY legend and deserves better than this in a lot of ways. But there is no transformation for NYG that will turn it around. He will only decline go forward.

And comparing Goff to Eli? Goff was a rookie! Nobody crapped on Eli for his bad 2004 games. What an inappropriate and terrible comparison.

Exactly!
RE: Goff was done last year too  
Sammo85 : 11/5/2017 2:56 pm : link
In comment 13676422 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Now he’s the next Brady.

Funny how a legitimate coaching staff and the right player acquisitions can change the perception of a QB.


True. However Eli turns 37 in January. The hourglass is running out on
Eli.
RE: .  
micky : 11/5/2017 2:56 pm : link
In comment 13676436 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The biggest problem is that so many people here have to have it one way or another.

Either Eli is the problem or his circumstances are the problem.

Here's the truth...

Eli hasn't played well, but has also been hurt by poor protection, injuries and some crappy coaching.

It actually CAN be both things.


this
Britt  
hassan : 11/5/2017 2:56 pm : link
its not all on Eli for sure. Lots of suck on this shit squad. But we saw Eli perform admirably on a bad 09, 14, 15 squad and lift the team. He's lost a lot from that form is evident.

Dont disagree he will start. But I was hoping Giants could take the stance of drafting o line and rb and d and avoid a qb pick.

looks like they will have to make one now with an early pick.
RE: I'm not going to sit here and argue with people that have made  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/5/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13676426 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
up their mind.

All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good.

If you want to pin that all on one guy, go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm also done wasting my time arguing about it.

Here's the deal. Eli will be the starting QB for the Giants next year. He's not getting bench, Webb is likely not the future, and Eli, barring catastrophic injury, WILL BE THE STARTING QB OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS WEEK ONE OF 2018.

It's a lock.


Who said it's all on him?
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13676442 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13676436 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


The biggest problem is that so many people here have to have it one way or another.

Either Eli is the problem or his circumstances are the problem.

Here's the truth...

Eli hasn't played well, but has also been hurt by poor protection, injuries and some crappy coaching.

It actually CAN be both things.



Sure it can, but how can you evaluate it? I know we have a bunch of professional scouts here on BBI, but still...


That's what people in the front office are being paid to do.

It is both things. It's not one or the other. But it's up to them to figure out the best course of action going forward.

I'm not sure Reese will survive this mess - so, whoever comes next is going to have to make a decision.

I am of the belief that this isn't all Eli's fault - but that he does have a hand in it. If I had strong convictions about a QB in this draft, I would certainly take him.
RE: RE: I'm not going to sit here and argue with people that have made  
Britt in VA : 11/5/2017 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13676462 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13676426 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


up their mind.

All I'm saying is we don't have a professional offense right now. Not the roster, not the playbook, not the coach. Nothing about our offense is good.

If you want to pin that all on one guy, go ahead. I don't agree, but I'm also done wasting my time arguing about it.

Here's the deal. Eli will be the starting QB for the Giants next year. He's not getting bench, Webb is likely not the future, and Eli, barring catastrophic injury, WILL BE THE STARTING QB OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS WEEK ONE OF 2018.

It's a lock.



Who said it's all on him?


That's all that's being talked about on the offensive side of the ball on the game thread. That's what this thread is about.

All I'm saying is, for me, it's impossible to evaluate Eli right now based on a. the state of the roster, and b. the state of the coaching staff.
Whatever QB we draft next year doesn't have to start next year.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/5/2017 3:00 pm : link
You have Eli there to take the hits and losses in what will be a major rebuilding season, and hand it off to the kid when things are in place and we are ready to win/or at least compete to be a winning team again.
no doubt he is done.  
zeroburrito : 11/5/2017 3:02 pm : link
going to need to find a qb fast with how good the other quarterbacks in the division.
Reese  
PaulN : 11/5/2017 3:02 pm : link
Ruined Eli, he had time to build him an offensive line and failed to do it miserably, only an idiot wouldn't understand Eli had to have a good offensive line with a good running game so he could use play action pass which is the strength of his game. Eli now has taken too many shots and has become gun shy, Giants need to move forward without him,, you don't build around a 37 year old QB. The team should have already been built long ago.
RE: Whatever QB we draft next year doesn't have to start next year.  
Sean : 11/5/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13676471 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
You have Eli there to take the hits and losses in what will be a major rebuilding season, and hand it off to the kid when things are in place and we are ready to win/or at least compete to be a winning team again.


Those days are over Dave. You don’t take a QB in the top 5 of the draft and sit him.
RE: Goff was done last year too  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/5/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13676422 WillVAB said:
Quote:


Funny how a legitimate coaching staff and the right player acquisitions can change the perception of a QB.




Was the coaching staff somehow not legitimate for those years? I'll give you talent, as we all agreed that was lacking, but these throws aren't where they're supposed to be, and that's not on the intended receiver. And him fumbling on contact regularly isn't on coaching when you're in year 13 of your career.
RE: RE: Whatever QB we draft next year doesn't have to start next year.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/5/2017 3:04 pm : link
In comment 13676483 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13676471 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


You have Eli there to take the hits and losses in what will be a major rebuilding season, and hand it off to the kid when things are in place and we are ready to win/or at least compete to be a winning team again.



Those days are over Dave. You don’t take a QB in the top 5 of the draft and sit him.


They can if they want, or play him. It's going to be the new head coach and GM's decision.
Or dropping to the ground  
George : 11/5/2017 3:04 pm : link
because he can't make his feet work fast enough to scramble out of the way.
RE: RE: Whatever QB we draft next year doesn't have to start next year.  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2017 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13676483 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13676471 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


You have Eli there to take the hits and losses in what will be a major rebuilding season, and hand it off to the kid when things are in place and we are ready to win/or at least compete to be a winning team again.



Those days are over Dave. You don’t take a QB in the top 5 of the draft and sit him.


Didn't we do that with Eli?
Been saying he’s done for a while now  
#10* : 11/5/2017 3:06 pm : link
Hearing footsteps is a very real thing for an NFL Qb. He has a wife and kids now and clearly doesn’t want brain damage.

The best thing the giants can do is pull him from this game in a way conceding and throw Webb out there to see whether they need to draft a Qb at the top of the draft or if they have their guy in house.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2017 3:07 pm : link
Also, Patrick Mahomes was drafted 10th overall and is sitting this year.

You can still do it when the circumstances make sense.
Eli Manning is a HOFer today  
EddieNYG : 11/5/2017 3:11 pm : link
But I think he's done. Yes, he has a poor supporting cast, but when he's had time to throw this year, he has missed on a ton of wide open receivers. Today has been no different.

And calling that timeout cause the play clock runs down for the second time today is a disgrace.
RE: Reese  
adamg : 11/5/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13676479 PaulN said:
Quote:
Ruined Eli, he had time to build him an offensive line and failed to do it miserably, only an idiot wouldn't understand Eli had to have a good offensive line with a good running game so he could use play action pass which is the strength of his game. Eli now has taken too many shots and has become gun shy, Giants need to move forward without him,, you don't build around a 37 year old QB. The team should have already been built long ago.


A line of that quality even with who we've drafted would cost an additional 30 million in cap space per year. In a cap league that's virtually untenable if you want to have a defense and retain guys like Collins and Beckham.

Eli is a major negative given all the needs associated with his game. If he didn't cost 25 mill per or the league wasn't a hard cap, it'd be a different scenario.
RE: With Roger Lewis  
Les in TO : 11/5/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13676406 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
Tavaris King and Travis Rudolph trying to get open, with that kindergarten O-line, I'm shocked anybody can evaluate Manning. (in the rain!)
he has engrams and Shepard both of whom have talent
Anyone who thinks...  
Chris in Philly : 11/5/2017 3:18 pm : link
they can judge just about anyone on this roster they way it is currently constructed is being ridiculous...
RE: RE: With Roger Lewis  
Chris in Philly : 11/5/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13676584 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 13676406 NoPeanutz said:


Quote:


Tavaris King and Travis Rudolph trying to get open, with that kindergarten O-line, I'm shocked anybody can evaluate Manning. (in the rain!)

he has engrams and Shepard both of whom have talent


Oh stop.
RE: RE: Goff was done last year too  
WillVAB : 11/5/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13676485 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13676422 WillVAB said:


Quote:




Funny how a legitimate coaching staff and the right player acquisitions can change the perception of a QB.





Was the coaching staff somehow not legitimate for those years? I'll give you talent, as we all agreed that was lacking, but these throws aren't where they're supposed to be, and that's not on the intended receiver. And him fumbling on contact regularly isn't on coaching when you're in year 13 of your career.


Prior years have nothing to do with this year. This year I see a coaching staff who struggles to even find the right starting guys from his 53. I see a vanilla, pre-season style scheme offensively. I see opponents consistently exploit our weaknesses on offense and defense, and a FO that’s too stupid or stubborn to address those weaknesses.

I get it that a sizable group wants Eli to be the sacrificial lamb, but he can still play — and a shiny new QB won’t solve the problems. At this point there’s a better chance a draft pick QB or Webb will become David Carr than a legitimate franchise QB.
I know  
crick n NC : 11/5/2017 3:19 pm : link
i definitely listen to BBI when I need to know how well or poorly a player is currently playing. So much knowledge! Love it! Thanks Guys!
RE: .  
NYG07 : 11/5/2017 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13676506 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Also, Patrick Mahomes was drafted 10th overall and is sitting this year.

You can still do it when the circumstances make sense.


And in the case for the Giants it makes zero sense. Look how good Wentz and Goff are in their second years after going through their lumps as rookies. Having Eli under center next year will only delay the rebuild. Take a QB high and let him play next year. Use the $10M in cap savings in 2018 and the completely opened up cap in 2019 from the Eli release to build a team around the young QB.
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 11/5/2017 3:21 pm : link
Love Eli, but definitely time to look for the next franchise qb! Any hint of pressure and he looks like he’s shell-shocked which is understandable.
It is not about blaming Eli  
Vanzetti : 11/5/2017 3:22 pm : link
Yeah, maybe some want to do that in the heat of the moment.

But the real question is whether you want to do a major rebuild around a 37 year old QB. I just don't see that as an intelligent approach when you have the opportunity to possibly draft your next franchise QB.
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