Breer suggests Odell Beckham is at the root of Giants issues

He missed OTAs. He gets penalties and says he will get them again.

Beckham is a GREAT player, but I would seriously consider trading him for draft picks.

Let's not go nutty trying to find reasons for everything.

ownership and the coach are chickenhawks? Ok.

I was wondering when this would circle back to Beckham - aka the only reason to watch this team

on this site.

He just didn't feel like it. And he was a beast on then field. Breer needs to realize this is 2017. Odell is an all-world talent and one of the best talents this team has ever had.

How come when Beckham is on the field the Giants are at least competitive?

Going back several seasons, this entire team's offensive output is dependent on OBJ. Without him the team cannot do anything offensively.

The reason the Giants D is so bad, imo, is that the offense is completely inconsistent. This puts the defense in one bad spot after another.

I also have to accept that Spags is a bad coach. He has had two types of results - very good, and historically bad. His bad outcomes are far more common than his good ones. I think he tried to install something that just isn't working on defense, and it's hurting this team big-time.

without Beckham and he's part of the problem. lol

they're lucky he hasn't went off around there

.

In comment 13679873 Sean said:

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on this site.

So, in your mind, he's the cause of this team being 1-7?

Stupid can you be as an analyst?

but it's NOT his fault. Management needed to handle him correctly from the get go. Generational talents come with generational problems. If they can't handle him then they need to trade him. But he didn't cause anything

good lord

In comment 13679871 B in ALB said:

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ownership and the coach are chickenhawks? Ok.

lol

.

It's Reese's, Coughlin's, and McAdoo's.

The signs of Beckham being a jackass were there in 2014...I remember because I said something about it here then. Had Coughlin actually been the disciplinarian he liked everyone to think he was he would have straightened his ass out then.

The team has completely mishandled Beckham from the word 'go'.

and is still second on the team in TDs this season.

that tried hard early in the season, but really didn't give a fuck yesterday.

...if the Giants sign Beckham to another contract they are fucking high. That will be a disaster.

In comment 13679904 Go Terps said:

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It's Reese's, Coughlin's, and McAdoo's. The signs of Beckham being a jackass were there in 2014...I remember because I said something about it here then. Had Coughlin actually been the disciplinarian he liked everyone to think he was he would have straightened his ass out then. The team has completely mishandled Beckham from the word 'go'.

Terps, give me your thoughts on this...

Say they fire McAdoo. When they go searching for this new head coach, one of the guys they like tells them that he's (Beckham) toxic to winning and should be jettisoned.

Does ownership allow that trade to go down? Or do they give him the "Eli treatment" and make him too a "special case?"

The way this is looking, if I am a prospective coach, I do not want to be forced to take on Odell at the start if I have concluded that this guy is not going to be in my future plans.

In comment 13679918 Go Terps said:

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...if the Giants sign Beckham to another contract they are fucking high. That will be a disaster.

Yup, definitely. We need all the money we can to resign Perkins, Vereen, Flowers, Hart, Richburg, Geno, Apple, Shephard, Marshall, Wing, Rosas, Thompson, Berhe, etc.

What if Odell wasn't around. How would the team respond then?

Hmm.

In comment 13679921 BigBlueinChicago said:

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In comment 13679904 Go Terps said: Quote: It's Reese's, Coughlin's, and McAdoo's. The signs of Beckham being a jackass were there in 2014...I remember because I said something about it here then. Had Coughlin actually been the disciplinarian he liked everyone to think he was he would have straightened his ass out then. The team has completely mishandled Beckham from the word 'go'. Terps, give me your thoughts on this... Say they fire McAdoo. When they go searching for this new head coach, one of the guys they like tells them that he's (Beckham) toxic to winning and should be jettisoned. Does ownership allow that trade to go down? Or do they give him the "Eli treatment" and make him too a "special case?" The way this is looking, if I am a prospective coach, I do not want to be forced to take on Odell at the start if I have concluded that this guy is not going to be in my future plans.

Regardless of your thread opinion, barring a quick, huge turnaround into an arrow up team, OBJ will NOT be a Giant when his first contract ends.

It's still a knock against the coaching staff and the GM for mishandling him.

Another reason for them to go

yada yada yada

...which I am not willing to do at this point, but even if we stipulate that, how is it not the coaches fault to deal with such a talented player in a constructive way. The NFL is full of prima donnas and there is no way ours is responsible for a losing record...

to draw fans (Chargers, Raiders, 49ers, Rams) would love to give OBJ a blank check if/when he reaches free agency.

And he may want to make that kind of move...then he can stay in Hollywood more often and hang out with his celebrity friends without getting shit from the NY media for skipping OTAs and stuff like that.

I've been in OBJ's corner all along, but I have a feeling we end up rebuilding without him.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out with Beckham. I expect that ownership (given that Mara foolishly publicly stated that we would pay Beckham) will be loathe to trade him...especially now that he probably would only net a second rounder in trade. But if a new GM/coach comes in and says they'd rather move him, maybe Mara agrees to it.

And from Beckham's perspective, I wonder how badly he wants to be here. He's got one year left, and he's coming off a nasty injury. He might be looking at a new coach and quarterback in the near future...does he want to deal with that? Marketability for him isn't an issue anywhere in the country. I could see him playing next year and then leaving as a free agent.

If I'm Mara, I swallow my pride, trade him around the draft, and move on. Alternatively you play out the year and take the comp pick when/if he leaves.

But paying him a top shelf contract...please, please no.

It feels like it's been weeks since he caught a pass.

In comment 13679937 old man said:

Quote:

In comment 13679921 BigBlueinChicago said: Quote: In comment 13679904 Go Terps said: Quote: It's Reese's, Coughlin's, and McAdoo's. The signs of Beckham being a jackass were there in 2014...I remember because I said something about it here then. Had Coughlin actually been the disciplinarian he liked everyone to think he was he would have straightened his ass out then. The team has completely mishandled Beckham from the word 'go'. Terps, give me your thoughts on this... Say they fire McAdoo. When they go searching for this new head coach, one of the guys they like tells them that he's (Beckham) toxic to winning and should be jettisoned. Does ownership allow that trade to go down? Or do they give him the "Eli treatment" and make him too a "special case?" The way this is looking, if I am a prospective coach, I do not want to be forced to take on Odell at the start if I have concluded that this guy is not going to be in my future plans. Regardless of your thread opinion, barring a quick, huge turnaround into an arrow up team, OBJ will NOT be a Giant when his first contract ends.

I’m not going to say never, but I think the next regime is going to make it clear as day to Beckham they are in charge. It’s highly unlikely they’re not going to bring him back. He’s the best player on the team and, frankly, one of the 5 best in the league. You don’t let that walk for nothing nor do you trade him because you won’t find someone willing to trade multiple #1’s for him. That’s likely what his value is.

pass it on.

is a clown that assaulted at least one female, jumps into Salvation Army tubs and does a feed me gesture anytime he gets a first down, and the Media has pretty much ignored the elephant in the room and guffaws at his antics.

Ben R is a rapist who gets marveled at his toughness and grit.

Cam Newton does a Superman gesture when his team is losing by 3 TD's and spent a season dabbing and he's just having fun playing the game

Josh Norman body slammed OBJ, spends most of the time talking about himself as an all-time great CB and he's applauded for his hard-nosed play.

Beckham is the most electric Giants offensive player, possibly ever, has a clean off the field record, and yet some, even here that are supposed giants fans, can't wait to jettison the guy.

And somehow is some fucked up twisted logic, he's the reason the team is 1-7, while a rapist and woman beater are awesome cogs to successful teams.

If you don't see the fucked up hypocrisy there, I don't know what to say.

His stupid on field behavior should have been dealt with in year 1, and it still hasn't been done. Think the rest of the team hasn't noticed?

is lack of player leadership. Parcells used it, BB uses it, Seattle is overflowing with it - I see strong personalities on team - but no strong leaders. Eli leads by example, but sometimes you need to get in people's face - that's not Eli.

But this is not his fault.

The reason is trade him is we suck and he's valuable. He is worth more then A #1 pick. He's probably one of the 10 most valuable players in the league.

In this line of thinking they should be able to get 3 picks for him. With a new front office that can really have an impact on the team's future.

Given the current shit show he will hold out and it will be a mess. He might be able to help the franchise the most by landing a serious hall to rebuild with.

In comment 13679960 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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is a clown that assaulted at least one female, jumps into Salvation Army tubs and does a feed me gesture anytime he gets a first down, and the Media has pretty much ignored the elephant in the room and guffaws at his antics. Ben R is a rapist who gets marveled at his toughness and grit. Cam Newton does a Superman gesture when his team is losing by 3 TD's and spent a season dabbing and he's just having fun playing the game Josh Norman body slammed OBJ, spends most of the time talking about himself as an all-time great CB and he's applauded for his hard-nosed play. Beckham is the most electric Giants offensive player, possibly ever, has a clean off the field record, and yet some, even here that are supposed giants fans, can't wait to jettison the guy. And somehow is some fucked up twisted logic, he's the reason the team is 1-7, while a rapist and woman beater are awesome cogs to successful teams. If you don't see the fucked up hypocrisy there, I don't know what to say.

And none of those clowns are playing in New York where everything in magnified 10X. If you don't understand that, I don't know what to say.

Bieber should be the next head coach.

I wouldn't want any of those guys. I don't have a good thing to say about any of them. Shit, I post the Cam Newton fumble GIF at every opportunity. Why am I a hypocrite?

How about we stop pretending that Beckham is a great guy? He's shown himself more than once to being selfish and not giving a shit about hurting his team with penalties. If he were on the Cowboys or Eagles every single person on this board would motherfuck him at every available opportunity, I'm 100% sure of it.

To me, that's hypocrisy.

This shit is fucking exhausting. The guy is in a boot and wasn't anywhere near the football field on a day where we were utterly embarrassed and made to look like a pee-wee team where players looked like they were quitting left and right.

But it's his fault?

First the narrative was that he was putting himself above the team and that he was a bad teammate, etc. Now he's got such a massive influence over everyone that he's the reason why the Giants are a complete disaster.

Make it fucking stop.

In comment 13679956 BlackLight said:

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It feels like it's been weeks since he caught a pass.

Still somehow feels like he's played more than Roger Lewis, Jr.

It's not crazy to think that there are idiots on this team that follow his idiotic lead, but that's not the root problem.

Above everyone I blame Coughlin and Reese.

In comment 13679973 Go Terps said:

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I wouldn't want any of those guys. I don't have a good thing to say about any of them. Shit, I post the Cam Newton fumble GIF at every opportunity. Why am I a hypocrite? How about we stop pretending that Beckham is a great guy? He's shown himself more than once to being selfish and not giving a shit about hurting his team with penalties. If he were on the Cowboys or Eagles every single person on this board would motherfuck him at every available opportunity, I'm 100% sure of it. To me, that's hypocrisy.

This I absolutely agree with. While I recognize his talents, I can’t ignore how unlikable the team is (and has been, even last season) and he’s a BIG part of that.

NY angle.

The city that celebrated Mark Gastineau's sack dances, LT's coke binges, The Bronx Zoo, Rex Ryan, Dwight Gooden and Strawberry and an assorted group of stars that had less than desirable behavior.

There've been attention whores in NY that have thrived and very few get treated by the Media the way OBJ does.

Just look at the difference in the way he and Josh Norman have been treated. One is portrayed as a thuggish diva and the other guy is just a tough player.

In comment 13679946 mfsd said:

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to draw fans (Chargers, Raiders, 49ers, Rams) would love to give OBJ a blank check if/when he reaches free agency. And he may want to make that kind of move...then he can stay in Hollywood more often and hang out with his celebrity friends without getting shit from the NY media for skipping OTAs and stuff like that. I've been in OBJ's corner all along, but I have a feeling we end up rebuilding without him.

Problem is that his highest value to trade him was prior to the injury. Can't trade him now until he shows where he's at after rehab

already.

In comment 13679962 Stan in LA said:

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His stupid on field behavior should have been dealt with in year 1, and it still hasn't been done. Think the rest of the team hasn't noticed?

Our old friend Bill Parcells used to deal with players complaining that LT got special treatment. Parcells responded “yep, that’s right. And you’ll start getting that treatment too when you start playing like him”.

Star players getting preferential treatments goes back to the beginning of time. In all sports. But only Beckham gets blamed for the shit that happens years later, while he’s on IR.

I'm not calling you a hypocrite. This statement is true:

Quote:

If he were on the Cowboys or Eagles every single person on this board would motherfuck him at every available opportunity, I'm 100% sure of it.

And everytime a giants fan bad mouths Dez Bryant or bad mouthed Terrell Owens, or talked about half the guys who ham it up in the league they are often shouted down with "I'd take him on my team any day".

Except now that he's on our team and is probably the best offensive talent I've seen, he's now the root problem of everything. And if you follow the logic, he was the root problem for the playoff loss, but seldom mentioned as a guy who helped us get there in the first place.

Hell, people bitch about the fact Elliott is still on the field and you have quite a few guys saying he's not been convicted of anything, and I can point out at least two
of those posters who were absolutely going apeshit over Josh Brown not being immediately cut.

Or block. Or we lost every WR. Just stupid.

They got their asses kicked all year. It wasn't his fault.

because he isn't on the field playing and was never 100% healthy this year.

In comment 13679980 The_Boss said:

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In comment 13679973 Go Terps said: Quote: I wouldn't want any of those guys. I don't have a good thing to say about any of them. Shit, I post the Cam Newton fumble GIF at every opportunity. Why am I a hypocrite? How about we stop pretending that Beckham is a great guy? He's shown himself more than once to being selfish and not giving a shit about hurting his team with penalties. If he were on the Cowboys or Eagles every single person on this board would motherfuck him at every available opportunity, I'm 100% sure of it. To me, that's hypocrisy. This I absolutely agree with. While I recognize his talents, I can’t ignore how unlikable the team is (and has been, even last season) and he’s a BIG part of that.

Really, the guy that repeatedly gets praise from the league AND the commissioner for exemplary off the field work is unlikeable? On the field, he was the best wide receiver in the league. If anything he took heat and vision off the Giants management for how crappy they have been. Outside the Denver game, what do we have to look at now?

a single reason for problem, look no further than this thread and some of these comments.

Winning teams are not usually predicated on1 star receiver. They usually focus on qb, O Line and defense . So go ahead and sign him and keep sucking Not saying having a bunch of good to really good receivers isn’t important, it is. Just can’t afford to tie up that much money in 1 player in a position that isn’t the focal point of winning teams.9

If I was Mara and I interviewed a candidate for the HC job who said Beckham didn't fit into his formula for winning, I would ask them if they felt he was talented enough to play in their system. When they inevitably answered no, it was because of his attitude, I would ask if the coach felt fixing that attitude was beyond his skills as a coach. If he said yes, I would thank him for coming in and send him on his way.

You win with talent in the NFL, not a bunch of scrappy hard workers that drink lots of milk. If a coach can't get a generational talent like Beckham to produce in his system while not being a problem, he shouldn't be coaching in the NFL.

Coughlin failed with Beckham, and so did McAdoo. The next guy can't.

but a talented diva who gets away from being disciplined. And it was from get go which is the problem.

And nobody came to his defense, including the coaches, that was where a lot of the problems started for him, imo.

He then had to fight his own battles in the field. Then he gets called a dirty player. Then selfish. Then a distraction.

OBJ was hammered and Norman got away with it. If we want to look back on where this team went wrong it wasn't when they failed to discipline their start, it was when they failed to protect him.

In comment 13679963 bc4life said:

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is lack of player leadership. Parcells used it, BB uses it, Seattle is overflowing with it - I see strong personalities on team - but no strong leaders. Eli leads by example, but sometimes you need to get in people's face - that's not Eli.

Smarted thing I have read on BBI in weeks. Leadership. We ain't got enough. Can we get a Strahan type leader on the defense?

Last year. He was our MVP. Hopefully he makes a full recovery and with another year under his belt as a player and father he will cut out the unsportsmanlike penalties.

So easy. So convenient. So predictable. And complete horse shit.

Let me get this straight. If the Giants fined or suspended or punished Beckham more so than they did over the last 3 years the Giants are playing better now? Am I right?

Whatever works. It's lazy talking point horse crap but it fits a narrative.

Never mind that the Giants have punished Beckham but hey it's respected Albert breer. It has to be true.

The team sucks. There aren't enough bad ass talents at key positions. Not enough wisdom in high places. Not good enough. That's why they are losing. Cmon already.

In comment 13680043 Painless62 said:

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Winning teams are not usually predicated on1 star receiver. They usually focus on qb, O Line and defense . So go ahead and sign him and keep sucking Not saying having a bunch of good to really good receivers isn’t important, it is. Just can’t afford to tie up that much money in 1 player in a position that isn’t the focal point of winning teams.9

The QB has been more of a problem than Beckham has been this year.

Some on this board don't want to sit the QB who is clearly done because of his start streak, which would be the epitome of putting a player above the good of the team, but want to trade the teams best player.

That being said I would trade him in a heart beat.

I've said this for 2+ years and I get lambasted but now that media guys say it- it is a revelation?

It was so obvious to me but you all got duped by a few one handed catches. I was begging Reese to trade the guy. Imagine we had 2 early 1sts and 2 early 2nds and 2 1sts in 2019? We would be having a different convo.

You can't win with Beckham because the success of the Giants is probably his 4th or 5th priority

Other than the Norman incident, what are we talking about with OBJ causing a ruckus (if you wanna even call it that) that has to do with the two years he was under Coughlin? Am I missing something here? The Rams fight after the late hit in 2014?

Giants were 6-7 in 2015 and my guess was Coughlin knew he was a goner in 2015 if they didn't make the playoffs for the 4th season in a row. He was well aware of what OBJ did, I just think he didn't care at that point of his career and decided to keep him in there....because he wanted his best shot to win. They were down 35-7 or whatever it was to Carolina and thanks to OBJ, they actually tied it.

Why the fuck are we even talking about OBJ in the first at this point? Oh yeah, this pointless article. The media is just having fun at the Giants expense much like everyone else who isn't a Giants fan at this point. They're just toying with us.

"The offensive line and Reese are awful"

Two 1sts and a 3rd.

If there's one thing the Giants can do (maybe the only thing), it's draft WRs. Nicks, while obviously not as naturally gifted or athletic as Beckham, was more impactful with his Fitzgeraldian post-season. Not worried about getting another WR. Beckham, Smith, Manningham, Shepard.

Maybe if they stockpile 10+ picks, they'll be able to hit on 1 tackle so the WRs actually have enough time to run a route.

In comment 13680137 ThatLimerickGuy said:

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I've said this for 2+ years and I get lambasted but now that media guys say it- it is a revelation? It was so obvious to me but you all got duped by a few one handed catches. I was begging Reese to trade the guy. Imagine we had 2 early 1sts and 2 early 2nds and 2 1sts in 2019? We would be having a different convo. You can't win with Beckham because the success of the Giants is probably his 4th or 5th priority

No, it's still stupid.. and you absolutely refusing to let this go has made you completely fucking insufferable.

No one got "duped" by anything other than thinking you actually had some sort of credibility around here.

You suck.

Beckham was noticeably muted this season. I think what you saw in Jacksonville last weekend between two of the best players in the league is an indication that talent rules and accommodations will always be made for it. Neither of those guys are going to be benched .

Furthermore , Shepard, King and Lewis don't seem contaminated to me. The Giants piss-poor attitude exists in their secondary . 3 corners and a safety . For whatever reasons . But Beckham gets blamed by extension for what they've done ? Absolute rubbish.

that want to trade OBJ away. Whether you want to believe it or not, this is 2003 all over again, and big changes are coming, including the QB position.

When you get a top 5 pick, you have to make the most of that opportunity. IMO it will be a QB. So what is a young QBs best friend? A superstar receiver that elevates the play of the QB. Pair a large contract for an all pro receiver with a cost controlled young QB and you can easily still build a well rounded team around that.

Pair a superstar highly paid receiver with an old declining $20M QB and the rest of the team suffers.

In comment 13679960 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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is a clown that assaulted at least one female, jumps into Salvation Army tubs and does a feed me gesture anytime he gets a first down, and the Media has pretty much ignored the elephant in the room and guffaws at his antics. Ben R is a rapist who gets marveled at his toughness and grit. Cam Newton does a Superman gesture when his team is losing by 3 TD's and spent a season dabbing and he's just having fun playing the game Josh Norman body slammed OBJ, spends most of the time talking about himself as an all-time great CB and he's applauded for his hard-nosed play. Beckham is the most electric Giants offensive player, possibly ever, has a clean off the field record, and yet some, even here that are supposed giants fans, can't wait to jettison the guy. And somehow is some fucked up twisted logic, he's the reason the team is 1-7, while a rapist and woman beater are awesome cogs to successful teams. If you don't see the fucked up hypocrisy there, I don't know what to say.

Completely agree.

Odell is emotional and results in the occasional bonehead penalty unrelated to his play.

He is an electric player who can turnaround a game at a moments notice and always needs to be accounted for and double teamed.

Barring a career ending injury keeping him long term is a priority.

but count me as one who gives Beckham a complete pass. Give me a fucking break. Times are different. These are not the days of Tittle and Gifford, nor of Simms and L.T.. Give it a rest. Beckham has never done anything aside from flip out during a game (which they almost won against a far superior team because of HIM!) against the Panthers. Punching a kicking net? Punching a wall? The boat trip? Jesus. Deal with it. The guy is a great, GREAT, football player, and the Giants WILL sign him long term and you will like it. People think he is a cancer of some kind, that couldnt be farther from reality. The guy leads by making insane plays and winning games and he works his ass off (sorry he didnt go to OTAs, but what is the O in that acronym?). Times have changed you 20 -80 year old great grandpas.

it's Organized. What I was looking for was voluntary, but that's not in the acronym. A little tired here at work.

Amen. I was thinking the same thing. Having good WRs is necessary. Having a great one is nice, but not essential. The amount of money he’s going to cost is going to make it difficult to retain and/or add elsewhere.

With that in mind, if you think the team is about to go into rebuild mode (which, despite the current record, is not a foregone conclusion), it might make sense to consider a trade.

It’s not as simple as “he’s fucking great”

He acts like a child and gets patted on the back by our owner, which in turn shows the inma...players that if you are talented you can do fuck all and get away with it. I hope he walks at the end of his rookie deal, he is everything wrong with this team wrapped up in a blonde curly haircut.

The mishandling of Beckham is the reason. He is at the root of it, but this is on John Mara for not having the sense to reign him in and proclaiming he wants him to be a Giant for life before any negotiation takes place. One of the reasons the RG3 thing derailed the Skins was because he did no wrong in the owners eyes and players saw that and behaved accordingly. Organizations reflect how the owner does things, and ours has been a ham fisted idiot since TC left. There is a leadership void in that building and it is painfully obvious.

In comment 13680216 Joey in VA said:

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The mishandling of Beckham is the reason. He is at the root of it, but this is on John Mara for not having the sense to reign him in and proclaiming he wants him to be a Giant for life before any negotiation takes place. One of the reasons the RG3 thing derailed the Skins was because he did no wrong in the owners eyes and players saw that and behaved accordingly. Organizations reflect how the owner does things, and ours has been a ham fisted idiot since TC left. There is a leadership void in that building and it is painfully obvious.

Grown adults quit on plays because one player got a pass on a 15 yard penalty?

In comment 13680216 Joey in VA said:

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The mishandling of Beckham is the reason. He is at the root of it, but this is on John Mara for not having the sense to reign him in and proclaiming he wants him to be a Giant for life before any negotiation takes place. One of the reasons the RG3 thing derailed the Skins was because he did no wrong in the owners eyes and players saw that and behaved accordingly. Organizations reflect how the owner does things, and ours has been a ham fisted idiot since TC left. There is a leadership void in that building and it is painfully obvious.

Grown adults quit on plays because one player got a pass on a 15 yard penalty?

The TC days as well.
This culture got its roots there.
TC had enough oomph to keep the lid on the simmering pot, but Mac does not.

And it’s more than one penalty

amaze me on a daily basis.

You want to blame Beckham for the Giants falling apart? The best WR in football, who never causes a problem off the field...Who got off the ground several times earlier this year with a severely twisted ankle and played until it fractured? Same guy that is virtually uncoverable; the only true offensive weapon on the team.

People on here bitch about not re-signing DTs (effin' DTs) to a 2nd contract and you want to pass on one of the best players in the NFL. Same people want to wax poetic about a QB that seems to fumble almost any time he is hit and has been unable to hit a deep pass in two years.

Just continue to cut off your nose to spite your face...

The Giants problem is that resigning Beckham would be like putting an expensive set of racing tires a VW while your buddies show up with 911 Porsches with some off brand tires they picked up at Pep Boys. You may have better tires..but you are still getting your ass kicked.

The Giants need to spend money upgrading their ride...rather than wasting the money on tires the car can't take advantage of. Beckham is a luxury this team probably can't afford.

And McHandley. And Reese. Beckham was a rookie and very enthusiastic. He should have been reigned in at the beginning. But Coughlin was more worried about keeping his job than running the team and McAdoo is just plain clueless. Once the genie is out that's it.

only score the 17?

Odell is the reason our FO sucks, our coach sucks, & the team is falling apart @ the seams. JFC.

quote is more an indictment of McAdoo than Beckham.

Quote:

I’m gonna say something here that might not be very popular: Giants owner John Mara and GM Jerry Reese need to think long and hard before making the decision to break the bank on Odell Beckham Jr.. He’s a great player. No debate there. But this is more complicated, and the juxtaposition of how coach Ben McAdoo handled flags assessed to Eli Manning and Odell Beckham over the past two weeks provides the perfection explanation.

Every team in a league has players that do stupid things/have stupid penalties. How you handle that as a coach is about managing the team. If you're inconsistent with your management, that isn't on the player.

In comment 13680261 AnnapolisMike said:

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The Giants problem is that resigning Beckham would be like putting an expensive set of racing tires a VW while your buddies show up with 911 Porsches with some off brand tires they picked up at Pep Boys. You may have better tires..but you are still getting your ass kicked. The Giants need to spend money upgrading their ride...rather than wasting the money on tires the car can't take advantage of. Beckham is a luxury this team probably can't afford.

I still don't understand posts like these. The Giants paying Beckham doesn't keep them from upgrading other positions for the entirety of his contract. He's still on his rookie deal and if we do re-sign him, Eli will come off the books in 2019 with a much smaller dead cap hit or after 2019 when all his money comes off. You also have DRC coming off after next season (possibly traded before that.

That's $30 million between 2 players. Richburg probably won't be re-signed and possibly not even Pugh. Between picks and some hopefully savvy FA signings there's no reason the line can't get better soon. We see it all the time and there's no reason we can't be next, especially if the FO is cleaned out and infused with new blood in management.

In comment 13680261 AnnapolisMike said:

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The Giants problem is that resigning Beckham would be like putting an expensive set of racing tires a VW while your buddies show up with 911 Porsches with some off brand tires they picked up at Pep Boys. You may have better tires..but you are still getting your ass kicked. The Giants need to spend money upgrading their ride...rather than wasting the money on tires the car can't take advantage of. Beckham is a luxury this team probably can't afford.

Just stop. You pay Beckham because he is one of the best players in the NFL. As I have already said, Eli's time is almost up with this team. Having a cheap, cost controlled young QB on a rookie contract paired with Odell's big 2nd contract will not be an issue cap wise.

really need to be glossed over. It's really ridiculous.

OBJ is not essential to winning. There are plenty of teams with winning records that don’t have him. Also, it’s not that he is a criminal, because he isn’t. What it IS about is that he is an attention grabber and has a look at me attitude in a sport that is the ultimate team first game. Plus, at key times, how many passes has he dropped ? More than an all time great should. I’m tired of hearing and talking about him. I’d prefer to be talking about how good the Giants are and how they control the LOS. Finally, go look at he winning teams and see where they spend their money. Sure , some spend 10-11 on a really good receiver. Very few spend 15+. Spending that much will probably ensure suckitude.0

In comment 13680245 section125 said:

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amaze me on a daily basis. You want to blame Beckham for the Giants falling apart? The best WR in football, who never causes a problem off the field...Who got off the ground several times earlier this year with a severely twisted ankle and played until it fractured? Same guy that is virtually uncoverable; the only true offensive weapon on the team. People on here bitch about not re-signing DTs (effin' DTs) to a 2nd contract and you want to pass on one of the best players in the NFL. Same people want to wax poetic about a QB that seems to fumble almost any time he is hit and has been unable to hit a deep pass in two years. Just continue to cut off your nose to spite your face...

Cheers to this post.

Really?

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What it IS about is that he is an attention grabber and has a look at me attitude in a sport that is the ultimate team first game

So an ultimate team game makes it OK for the star QB to do a discount double-check move or a dab and it's just cool and showing how much fun they're having?

Show me the offensive players who don't celebrate a first down grab or run, or the defenders that don't dance on every sack or key stop (or hell, even a special teams tackle).

Show me a guy who hands the ball to the ref after a TD, and it is probably the 4th string TE.

Narratives are funny things. One guy celebrates, and he's just a fun-loving dude. Another guy does it and he's a Cancer that willed the team to a 1-7 record.

may be the best argument I've ever heard.

In comment 13680337 Painless62 said:

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OBJ is not essential to winning. There are plenty of teams with winning records that don’t have him. Also, it’s not that he is a criminal, because he isn’t. What it IS about is that he is an attention grabber and has a look at me attitude in a sport that is the ultimate team first game. Plus, at key times, how many passes has he dropped ? More than an all time great should. I’m tired of hearing and talking about him. I’d prefer to be talking about how good the Giants are and how they control the LOS. Finally, go look at he winning teams and see where they spend their money. Sure , some spend 10-11 on a really good receiver. Very few spend 15+. Spending that much will probably ensure suckitude.0

An interesting exercise. Let's look at OL vs. WR. cap % for the winning teams. Certainly teams should spend more on their OL considering there are five starters versus 3 WR. I'll add the % of cap for the five highest paid OL on the team and the 3 highest WR on each team.


NO - 17.33% OL - 2.96% WR
MIN - 10.65% OL - 5.77% WR
LAR - 11.47% OL - 14.43% WR
PHI - 18.62% OL - 10.12% WR
NE - 11.33% OL - 4.71% WR
KC - 13.29% OL - 2.06% WR
PITT - 21.94% OL - 9.54% WR
TENN - 9.06% OL - 9.18% WR
JAX - 12.13% OL - 5.7% WR

Clearly LAR is the exception. Tenn is close also, for now. With two top draft picks at OT they will eventually have to pay them more, and I suspect they will. Just the same, it's clear that you don't want to pay the WR more than the OL.

The NYG, in case you're curious:

11.52% OL - 6.69% WR

blaming beckham is such a strange fan/reporter complaint. by all accounts the guy is one of the hardest workers on the team. aaron donald not only didnt' show up for otas, he actually held out. wow - look at what a terrible impact that has had on the rams. come on. when they were winning last year, there was no problem. now they are losing. playing football on a losing football team sucks. that's the players problem.

in terms of personality, immaturity, and how it all unravels on the field on gameday. Many of his younger teammates are acting just as OB does, including one Eli Apple, whom has no real pelts to speak of yet. I don't think it's a coincidence some players are in open revolt this season, right or wrong, it's not the best way to go about things.

OB needs to grow up on the football field, as does Apple, et al. Even Engram has already reeled in the demonstrative stuff. Your star players actions are contagious to the rest of the team.

I suppose that is progress.

This Breer guy is being ridiculous and those of you apparently wanted Beckham horse-whipped in the public square or traded are out to lunch.

In comment 13680426 JonC said:

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in terms of personality, immaturity, and how it all unravels on the field on gameday. Many of his younger teammates are acting just as OB does, including one Eli Apple, whom has no real pelts to speak of yet. I don't think it's a coincidence some players are in open revolt this season, right or wrong, it's not the best way to go about things. OB needs to grow up on the football field, as does Apple, et al. Even Engram has already reeled in the demonstrative stuff. Your star players actions are contagious to the rest of the team.

There's a major causality flaw in that argument. Many of OBJ's younger teammates are acting like OBJ does because his peers act similarly to him in general, not because they're following his lead. He's just the most high-profile of the young players so the generation gap leads to older fans/writers seeing him as the cause of the behavior. He's not. It's generational.

then you've got multiple personalities generating issues leading to inmates running the asylum.

In comment 13680426 JonC said:

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in terms of personality, immaturity, and how it all unravels on the field on gameday. Many of his younger teammates are acting just as OB does, including one Eli Apple, whom has no real pelts to speak of yet. I don't think it's a coincidence some players are in open revolt this season, right or wrong, it's not the best way to go about things. OB needs to grow up on the football field, as does Apple, et al. Even Engram has already reeled in the demonstrative stuff. Your star players actions are contagious to the rest of the team.

You must live in an interesting reality. What color is the sky in your world?

Do you have something legit to contribute or ask?

In comment 13680486 JonC said:

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then you've got multiple personalities generating issues leading to inmates running the asylum.

I don't think it's unique to the Giants. The Giants just happen to lack vocal veteran leadership to rein it in.

I don't see anyone running Antonio Brown off the Steelers, and his behavior is largely similar to Beckham's. Winning fixes a lot of things (and losing festers a lot of things), but there are definitely legitimate leadership questions from within the Giants.

In comment 13680488 Dodge said:

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In comment 13680426 JonC said: Quote: in terms of personality, immaturity, and how it all unravels on the field on gameday. Many of his younger teammates are acting just as OB does, including one Eli Apple, whom has no real pelts to speak of yet. I don't think it's a coincidence some players are in open revolt this season, right or wrong, it's not the best way to go about things. OB needs to grow up on the football field, as does Apple, et al. Even Engram has already reeled in the demonstrative stuff. Your star players actions are contagious to the rest of the team. You must live in an interesting reality. What color is the sky in your world?

Jon does not need me to defend him but the reality he lives in is one in which he has actual access to the team that has been verified by Eric. So if anyone posting on here has any true insight into the locker room the money would be on Jon

by all accounts is just as bad, but worse he is known as a "me first" guy in the locker room, a phony, and not liked by his teammates. Aside from the histrionics, do you get any of that with OBJ. No indication he isn't liked by his teammates. Also, if you want a star WR, the diva thing is part of the package. Few aren't. OBJ really isn't the exception.

In comment 13680495 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13680486 JonC said: Quote: then you've got multiple personalities generating issues leading to inmates running the asylum. I don't think it's unique to the Giants. The Giants just happen to lack vocal veteran leadership to rein it in. I don't see anyone running Antonio Brown off the Steelers, and his behavior is largely similar to Beckham's. Winning fixes a lot of things (and losing festers a lot of things), but there are definitely legitimate leadership questions from within the Giants.

It doesn't have to be unique to the Giants, there's pretty clearly a lack of respect held towards the coaches. Losing certainly accelerates negativity and they certainly lack leaders among the players.

To be clear, I'm not looking to run OB off the team. I'm looking for strong leaders to emerge among the players and the coaches.

In comment 13680486 JonC said:

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then you've got multiple personalities generating issues leading to inmates running the asylum.

You can't say that - the Texans will protest.

Every team has players putting on excessive displays and OBJ doesn't play for them...

We weren't going anywhere this season so If he comes back post-rehab good as gold maybe having the limelight off of him for 9 months might allow him some time to mature some more

I don't want to see them shell out a huge deal to a guy that constantly needs to be defended by his fans through the mentioning of assholes elsewhere around the league.

Add on top of that the risk of paying so much money to an explosive player coming off two lower body injuries.

Some objectivity is needed when it comes to Beckham.

and it's fucking tiring. Does anyone know for sure that the Giants have or haven't tried to "reign in" Beckham?

Anyone? Didn't think so. No one here knows jack shit.

HAsn't this guy been fined by the Giants? Do you really know for sure that Mara or Coughlin or McAdoo or Reese haven't undressed Beckham behind closed doors? And try and stay with me here, the Giants didn't release that info to the press? Heaven forbid?

Guess not. We just go on innuendo and gossip and speculation.

Carry on.

In comment 13680513 Go Terps said:

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I don't want to see them shell out a huge deal to a guy that constantly needs to be defended by his fans through the mentioning of assholes elsewhere around the league. Add on top of that the risk of paying so much money to an explosive player coming off two lower body injuries. Some objectivity is needed when it comes to Beckham.

The irony in that last sentence is strong

as some sort of historical example. But didn't Reese and Shockey all but rip each other's throats out during an altercation?

These guys are babies. Try and reign them in? Sure...and more often than not the baby that has been to pro bowls goes on a temper tantrum and the dye has been cast that expedites his eventual departure. Maybe that's a good thing maybe not. But please don't sit here and act like you know what the Giants are doing with Beckham. You don't. And just because Beckham says something to the press that rubs some of you the wrong way year after year, and really, that's really what's going on here, that doesn't mean that the Giants haven't tried to change Beckham's ways. Sometimes there's nothing a franchise can do. But you really don't know what's been done and to sit here and act like you have all the answers is just ridiculous.

at the end of the day, the inmates are running the asylum in my view. I've been there. There's a disconnect and a lack of respect shown openly towards the coaches. There's clearly no leadership emerging that shows up on the field that doesn't allow 3rd and 33 to happen in the first place.

OB isn't likely the ROOT of the problem(s), but it's very likely imv he's a contributor/symptom. And, his greatness as a player and being a symptom can be in play at the same time and likely is, imo.

really now? Why? because he said he wanted beckham to be a Giant for life? Didn't he say the same thing about Shockey at one point? I'm sure he did.

Lip service. You guys fall for it every time.

How much of the Giants cap space would be in WRs if they paid OBJ 15+ per year? Probanly a whole bunch more than the top teams listed. Exactly the wrong thing to do, even if he was perfect in all respects. Wrong way to build a team in the salary cap era. BTW, I’d hate to see the metrics on DE. Probably make me sick. Yes, JPP might be the worst contract in the history of the Giants , with Vernon not far behind. Another reason Reese stinks or Chris Mara along with him

I agree, believe me. McAdoo and Spags have failed this team miserably. I was just pointing out that we really don't know what the Giants do behind closed doors with some of Beckham's antics. I think his antics and how they could have been handled and the coaching staff's handle on the entire team's pulse could be two different things.

McAdoo could have vocally ripped Beckham to shreds and we might not know about it.

Who cares the whole thing is getting blown up and the new regime will have a chance to get it right with Beckham.

I also have a hard time believing that Coughlin didn't try things with Beckham but I digress.

for Plaxico Burress when the two were out together the night Plax shot himself in the leg. No one says Big Ben's lengthy list of poor behavior as a young man is the reason Leveon Bell or Martavis Bryant were suspended. Blaming Odell for the immaturity of other people is foolish and only happens because some people don't like his antics. The most likely reason Eli Apple is an immature douche is because he was 20 years-old when he was drafted with all of the issues that regular non-millionaire 20 year-olds face. There were questions about his maturity BEFORE he was drafted.

While there are advantages to drafting very young players (Beckham, Hankins, Collins, Bobby Hart, Flowers, Eli Apple), there are also disadvantages too. They lack maturity and quite often don't deal with failure particularly well. (I hesitate to lump Odell in with those guys since he's dealing with an entirely different level of pressure and spotlight.)

if the Giants are winning, no one gives two shits about any of Beckham's antics except for the fans that live for that kind of shit. No one cares about Brown. No one cared about the NY Yankees cllubhouse in the late 70s once they started winning. No one cared about how bat shit crazy Dennis Rodman was. No one cares about Zeke Eliiot on Dallas now do they? Why? Because he rips off 5 YPC and Dallas is winning. No one cared that Montana and Steve Young facilitated a cold war during the late 80s. Why? They won.

Maybe Beckham is thr root cause of the Giants OL and the poor tackling and the poor offensive game plans but I doubt it. More likely he's just another symptom of a poorly run team right now. But in the end, you don't dump the baby out with the bath water. You try like hell to tap into Beckham's talents and get every ounce of ability from him. If he turns into a madman and/or stops making plays, move on. But you don't dump generational talents salary cap or no salary cap. You coach him up.

they LOVED each other? THE DL loved each other. The secondary had a nickname and they couldn't stop praising each other. The locker room harmony could be heard from miles away. Beckham was humping kicking nets and no one gave a fuck.

What happened? Did Ben suddenly lose his grip on that song and dance locker room? Did Ben forget how to keep young men in line? Or did he never truly have a grasp on this team and last year's model wasn't sustainable? Was all that locker room harmony just overstated? Just another talking point for the reporters to drum up during the good and quiet times of last season?

Locker room harmony is bullshit. Winning is all that matters. You could have a bunch of socially awkward kids that hate each other in the locker room but if they can play, it won't matter.

Coaching, talent and leadership--in that order. The Giants don't have enough of of it right now.

In comment 13680532 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 13680513 Go Terps said: Quote: I don't want to see them shell out a huge deal to a guy that constantly needs to be defended by his fans through the mentioning of assholes elsewhere around the league. Add on top of that the risk of paying so much money to an explosive player coming off two lower body injuries. Some objectivity is needed when it comes to Beckham. The irony in that last sentence is strong

I'm one of the few on this board that's been objective with Beckham from day one. It's not my fault the guy has been an asshole.

It is how OBJ acts ON the field. It would be better football wise if he was a model citizen and team first player on the field and more of a character OFF the field. No one is saying that there aren’t tons of players who are dirt bags . It’s just that on winning teams those dirt bags are all about the team on the field.

WHile ignoring both the good and bad he does bring

Yes, he is not like Shockey in being divisive to the team. Yes, he is a generational talent.
Yes, he is our one bright spot on offense.
Yes, he does nothing off the field that causes any real issues
But
He has done some antics on the field that have cost this team in games.
He has done some things that left him wide open to getting criticized off the field.
He does need to gain some maturity.

He's a young man with extraordinary talent in the biggest media capital of the world. If he plays it right the world is his oyster but at times he is also his own worse enemy

In comment 13680536 JonC said:

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at the end of the day, the inmates are running the asylum in my view. I've been there. There's a disconnect and a lack of respect shown openly towards the coaches. There's clearly no leadership emerging that shows up on the field that doesn't allow 3rd and 33 to happen in the first place.

Just think what Parcells would have done with the instigators..I hate to go back to Tuna because I think he screwed the Giants hard, but he would always drop one starter or a player that chose not to toe the line almost every summer. Not sure just who that player(s) is/are in 2017, but they need an eye opener. Of course with salary cap dropping a starter hurts doubly bad.

In comment 13680513 Go Terps said:

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I don't want to see them shell out a huge deal to a guy that constantly needs to be defended by his fans through the mentioning of assholes elsewhere around the league. Add on top of that the risk of paying so much money to an explosive player coming off two lower body injuries. Some objectivity is needed when it comes to Beckham.

Ah yes. Coming from the captain of objectivity. There's not an objective bone in your body when it comes to Beckham. You already HATE the guy and when you add to the fat that you're absolutely obsessed with thinking that you're a capologist and it's a real shock that you think letting him go is a good idea. You want 53 players making league minimum and not a dime more. There is a team that follows your model. The Cleveland Browns.

In comment 13680564 djm said:

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they LOVED each other? THE DL loved each other. The secondary had a nickname and they couldn't stop praising each other. The locker room harmony could be heard from miles away. Beckham was humping kicking nets and no one gave a fuck. What happened? Did Ben suddenly lose his grip on that song and dance locker room? Did Ben forget how to keep young men in line? Or did he never truly have a grasp on this team and last year's model wasn't sustainable? Was all that locker room harmony just overstated? Just another talking point for the reporters to drum up during the good and quiet times of last season? Locker room harmony is bullshit. Winning is all that matters. You could have a bunch of socially awkward kids that hate each other in the locker room but if they can play, it won't matter. Coaching, talent and leadership--in that order. The Giants don't have enough of of it right now.

Big fan of this post. Jesus people, Eli Manning would have been jettisoned off this team along with the coaching staff and management 2 years ago if it wasn't for Beckham. He's the real glue that held this team together with his all world talent and big plays. Without him, the team is a bunch of JAGS with big attitudes

In comment 13680536 JonC said:

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There's clearly no leadership emerging that shows up on the field that doesn't allow 3rd and 33 to happen in the first place.

While Eli Apple's pathetic lack of effort is a problem, "3rd & 33" has nothing to do with leadership or lack thereof. I once watched the Giants allow a 26 yard draw on "3rd & 22" to the Chicago Bears in an embarrassing home loss with a Hall of Fame coach and many of the same players who would win the Super Bowl the next season. If we saw an entire group not trying on that play, then I would agree with you. I saw people (not Eli Apple) trying, but simply not getting the job done.

I don't think you can assume that one bad play is a result of bad leadership. You want to say the secondary room looking like "Lord of the Flies" is a result of bad leadership, then that's a justifiable point.

The guy hasn't set foot on the field in a month and yet, we have a 100-post thread littered with people who still think this is his fault despite one of the most embarrassing losses in franchise history that he had absolutely no part in.

The worst thing the guy did all season was a TD celebration that people found to be in poor taste. That's literally it. He did nothing else.

But this is his fault.

In comment 13680618 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 13680513 Go Terps said: Quote: I don't want to see them shell out a huge deal to a guy that constantly needs to be defended by his fans through the mentioning of assholes elsewhere around the league. Add on top of that the risk of paying so much money to an explosive player coming off two lower body injuries. Some objectivity is needed when it comes to Beckham. Ah yes. Coming from the captain of objectivity. There's not an objective bone in your body when it comes to Beckham. You already HATE the guy and when you add to the fat that you're absolutely obsessed with thinking that you're a capologist and it's a real shock that you think letting him go is a good idea. You want 53 players making league minimum and not a dime more. There is a team that follows your model. The Cleveland Browns.

I called it like I saw it with Beckham while you were out buying his jersey. Hope it's worked out for you better than it has for the Giants. I'll say it again: I'm not the reason the guy is an asshole. I'm just not too busy following him on Instagram to see it.

It's going to be funny when he signs with Miami or the Chargers in a year and a half, and all the guys here that were blowing him for years turn on a dime and start hating him.

In comment 13680462 HomerJones45 said:

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I suppose that is progress.

and people are lining up to get rid of him?

Are you people all out of your minds?

Deal with and punish him for the antics....but for God's sake, the guy, when healthy, keeps DCs up at night.

Use a little common sense.

He's not even on the field.

In comment 13680659 Stan in LA said:

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In comment 13680462 HomerJones45 said: Quote: I suppose that is progress.

Tell us all again about all those holes in one!

What a tool.

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I called it like I saw it with Beckham while you were out buying his jersey. Hope it's worked out for you better than it has for the Giants.

You've called him an asshole and flat out said he's costing the team games and causing friction.

You actually think you're right about that - which makes the asking for a little objectivity funny as fuck.

In comment 13680624 arcarsenal said:

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The guy hasn't set foot on the field in a month and yet, we have a 100-post thread littered with people who still think this is his fault despite one of the most embarrassing losses in franchise history that he had absolutely no part in. The worst thing the guy did all season was a TD celebration that people found to be in poor taste. That's literally it. He did nothing else. But this is his fault.

But....but....BOAT TRIPZ!1!

Why don't you go back and read the miles-long list of excuses that have been made for him on this board (and on this thread)? Off the top of my head...

- He's young and needs to mature
- He's so much more competitive than everyone else
- He's a maniac obsessed with winning
- The refs are out to get him
- The media is out to get him
- The league is out to get him
- Players from other teams are treated with kid gloves despite also being assholes

It has always been the same bullshit excuses from day one, and none of them would be made here if he played for another team.

If Carson Wentz were out there getting unsportsmanlike penalties, earholing opponents, missing OTAs, going on boat trips before the playoffs and shitting himself after, and then saying he should be the highest paid player in the league would we all be making those excuses for him? No chance in hell.

Beckham is a dick, and it's not crazy to think that he's a problem on team full of problems. That IS objective. What isn't objective is the tidal wave of excuses for him.

mean you are being objective? Plenty of people that want him gone have a personal bias against him which is no different than those defending him for X reason.

The Giants won't ever be run like the Patriots. We don't have a good enough coach for that to happen. So using the 1 team that can utilize that strategy as the foundation of your argument isn't being genuine or realistic.

when Beckham has excuses made for him?

When people intimate he should be traded or is the cause of a 1-7 season.

We have supposed giant fans who are watching one of the most talented offensive players to take the field, and they would rather complain about his celebrations and sideline antics instead of his actual accomplishments.

People pointing out that the celebration dances don't matter aren't making excuses - they are pretty blatantly telling the people complaining to get a fucking clue.

It's not about being run like the Patriots, it's about common sense. The Giants are at a decision point with Beckham because of his contract situation. Trading him has to be part of the discussion when talking about options. It absolutely has to.

The penalties, though, do. Besides hurting the team they clearly indicate that Beckham doesn't give a fuck about anyone but himself.

out an actual penalty that ended up hurting the team directly?

In every game he's gotten a penalty, he's either come back and scored the game tying or game winning TD.

In comment 13680875 Go Terps said:

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It's not about being run like the Patriots, it's about common sense. The Giants are at a decision point with Beckham because of his contract situation. Trading him has to be part of the discussion when talking about options. It absolutely has to.

I don't disagree, but I don't think its this slam dunk case you make it out to be (which is biased I might add). We don't know what his new contract will be, we don't know their plans on Eli and his cap hit, we don't know the cap increases and how the Giants want to prepare for them over the next 3-5 years, we don't really know anything when it comes to the cap 3+ years from now yet everyone is worried we won't be able to spend any money.

Talk about trading Beckham all you want, but there's a ton of info you don't have including the compensation we would be getting for him in a hypothetical trade.

This team needs to draft better and coach better so it can afford to pay generational type talents like Beckham. Plain and simple. If not, we will just be going over this cycle again and again and again.

In comment 13680880 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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out an actual penalty that ended up hurting the team directly? In every game he's gotten a penalty, he's either come back and scored the game tying or game winning TD.

They ALL hurt the team directly. We're seriously saying there are scenarios where it's OK to incur unsportsmanlike penalties?

And if you read above, I say blaming Beckham for this season is stupid. The problems with this team go way past him.

He's a symptom of a bigger issue, but he's still a symptom.

we like to talk economics on this site but really, none of us know jack shit when it comes to assets, the cap, and how it all works. That's my point along with getting people in the FO who can find talent for cheap (draft + FA) so we can afford to pay people that are game changers.

that unless we fix our problems in the FO as well as the coaching staff, trusting that the pick/s we get for Beckham would translate into success is a very hard sell. Beckham works regardless of system, and he works regardless of how clueless our coaching staff is, that's already been proven. I don't really see that discussed but its a trait you simply cannot ignore.

Yeah.

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They ALL hurt the team directly. We're seriously saying there are scenarios where it's OK to incur unsportsmanlike penalties?

When somebody is using the penalties to point out the guy is a horrible teammate and should be traded, shouldn't there be some critical error he's made to actually cost the team a game - you know to sort of back up the point that the guy is a terrible, selfish teammate?

I'm not saying it is OK to incur penalties - I'd like to know one that cost us the game or even put us at a disadvantage that impacted the outcome. Because you know - Beckham is such a terrible dude that he's costing us games and making players get suspended and shit like that.

And some people here are asking what "penalty" he's gotten that's hurt the team?

I have never seen this fanbase so obsessed to the point of total ignorance with any player before, EVER.

the words objective and obsessed have been grossly misused:

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I have never seen this fanbase so obsessed to the point of total ignorance with any player before, EVER.

How the fuck are people who aren't on board with trading Beckham obsessed?

Wouldn't the people obsessed be the fuckers who keep creating threads saying Beckham is a main reason for the shitshow this year, is a terrible teammate and should be traded before he's signed?

Obsessing about something means dwelling on it, and just on this thread alone, you have at least 5 posters who create or come on each Beckham thread to say the guy is a Cancer.

That's obsession.

The bad teammate thing was the first attempt his detractors used at proving that we had to get rid of him.

But now, the goalposts have been moved so that he's become such a gigantic influence over everyone else, that he's at the root of all of the disciplinary/attitude issues we have on the team.

These guys are no longer in control of themselves - they're all under the spell of Odell Beckham from the training table when a mere year ago, he was such a selfish asshole that no one in the locker room possibly could like him no matter what they said about him publicly.

Hell, even when Evan Engram was penalized for his TD celebration against the Lions, people said that was Beckham's fault too because of his influence.

It's just shit you can't even take seriously at this point. It's a waste of time.

If someone argues that they think NYG would be better off trading Beckham, I don't agree with it, but I could at least see why someone would think it's a good idea.

It's the bending over backwards to create all of these narratives about his personality and talk about the guy like he's the biggest distraction the NFL has ever seen that are just beyond irritating and impossible to rationalize.

If the worst thing you can say about Beckham this year is that he took an unnecessary penalty for celebrating. That's it. Antonio Brown throws a tantrum on the sideline and shows up his QB, AJ Green is pulling WWF moves on the field and putting a guy in a sleeper hold and throwing punches at him, Mike Evans is in the middle of brawls.. but it's our guy that is the problem.

That's objective?

Can you point out where I've said that Antonio Brown, AJ Green, and Mike Evans shouldn't be called out in the same way Beckham has? Do you see me saying we should try to acquire any of those players, or encourage Beckham to be more like them?

Them hurting their teams with stupidity and selfishness has nothing to do with Beckham doing the same thing, and it doesn't absolve him.

It's just more excuses.

That totally fell flat, complaining about Beckham's treatment from the media. You would probably wipe the guy's ass if he let you.

How is he a victim? He's a big boy. Optics matter.

You don't want unsportsmanlike conduct penalties? Don't talk shit.

You don't want penalties for celebrations? Don't piss like a dog in the end zone.

You don't want people to question your professionalism? Don't party with deadbeat celebrities on a boat before the biggest game of your life to date (and then proceed to SUCK).

Remember the days when Tony Romo went to Cabo with his celebrity g/f before getting his ass handed to him by us and we all had a good laugh?

Now all of a sudden, the tables are turned and the guy on our team gets a pass? Why?

And by the way, I'm not saying I hate Beckham, I'm not saying trade Beckham. I just root for the laundry.

using the term "excuses".

Seems to be misused along with objective and obsessed.

Saying people are making excuses would indicate that Beckham is known to everyone as being a bad teammate and a Cancer and should be traded.

Hell - an argument could be made that people trying to rationalize the behavior of the team, the playoff loss to GB and the 1-7 record this year are the ones making excuses, by acting as if going on a party boat or warming up shirtless had an impact in the playoffs and that his selfishness has rubbed off on every player making them suck at football.

In comment 13680923 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Can you point out where I've said that Antonio Brown, AJ Green, and Mike Evans shouldn't be called out in the same way Beckham has? Do you see me saying we should try to acquire any of those players, or encourage Beckham to be more like them? Them hurting their teams with stupidity and selfishness has nothing to do with Beckham doing the same thing, and it doesn't absolve him. It's just more excuses.

But the argument would be to not pay all of them too which is silly for the same reasons its silly with Beckham.

In comment 13680923 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Can you point out where I've said that Antonio Brown, AJ Green, and Mike Evans shouldn't be called out in the same way Beckham has? Do you see me saying we should try to acquire any of those players, or encourage Beckham to be more like them? Them hurting their teams with stupidity and selfishness has nothing to do with Beckham doing the same thing, and it doesn't absolve him. It's just more excuses.

You're not the only person here who is a Beckham detractor - you're just the loudest one.

I've read countless times that Beckham should be more like Green because AJ just "minds his business," is a "consummate professional," and would never do anything like Beckham did against Norman.

Until it happened.

I'm still trying to figure out what Beckham even did this year that was so offensive. He took a penalty for celebrating?

Guys take dumb penalties constantly. I've seen Travis Kelce hurt his team with personal foul penalties about 10 different times in the last 2-3 years. Why aren't people always talking about what a bad teammate Kelce is?

Probably because he plays for a much better football team that is winning games.

In comment 13680303 Beezer said:

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really need to be glossed over. It's really ridiculous.

Yeah that always happens lol...is this your first day here?

Parcells use to let LT get away with way more,hell he came to a game on a Monday night against the Pats after the first quarter and Parcells said nothing and nothing happen to him! He was playing golf.

In comment 13680906 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Yeah. Quote: They ALL hurt the team directly. We're seriously saying there are scenarios where it's OK to incur unsportsmanlike penalties? When somebody is using the penalties to point out the guy is a horrible teammate and should be traded, shouldn't there be some critical error he's made to actually cost the team a game - you know to sort of back up the point that the guy is a terrible, selfish teammate? I'm not saying it is OK to incur penalties - I'd like to know one that cost us the game or even put us at a disadvantage that impacted the outcome. Because you know - Beckham is such a terrible dude that he's costing us games and making players get suspended and shit like that.

That's the absolutely hysterical and frustrating part of it all. This guy can go out there and catch 8 balls for 150 yards and 2 TDs while playing on a bad ankle, and the topic of the week won't be how awesome and gutsy he was, it'll be on whatever celebration he does afterwards. It must suck to go through life looking for all the negative you can find. It's gotten out of hand with guys on this site that think they are such better fans because they are miserable pricks that want robots on the team. Then they chalk it up to them being "objective" when the fact is, that couldn't be further from the truth.

after the pee celebration . . . the Giants are 5-2?

even hinted that they have a problem with OBJ? The only thing I recall is Apple saying that he thought there was some sort of "culture" issue. Didn't mention anything about Beckham (who I think was already injured at the time). There might well be a problem within the team, but I doubt it has anything to do with OBJ.

In comment 13681219 DaveW2 said:

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even hinted that they have a problem with OBJ? The only thing I recall is Apple saying that he thought there was some sort of "culture" issue. Didn't mention anything about Beckham (who I think was already injured at the time). There might well be a problem within the team, but I doubt it has anything to do with OBJ.

No. In fact, most of them have always come to bat for him and have been very supportive of him.

But, in true BBI/media fashion, that's now the problem. That he's somehow influenced him so much that he's the catalyst behind the culture issue.

So, basically, to sum it up, Beckham can't win here.

If the teammates dislike him, he'd be considered a distraction or cancer. When they like him, he's the bad influence and the reason for the poor culture.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He has to basically be a choir boy at all times otherwise he gets lambasted.

In comment 13679960 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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is a clown that assaulted at least one female, jumps into Salvation Army tubs and does a feed me gesture anytime he gets a first down, and the Media has pretty much ignored the elephant in the room and guffaws at his antics. Ben R is a rapist who gets marveled at his toughness and grit. Cam Newton does a Superman gesture when his team is losing by 3 TD's and spent a season dabbing and he's just having fun playing the game Josh Norman body slammed OBJ, spends most of the time talking about himself as an all-time great CB and he's applauded for his hard-nosed play. Beckham is the most electric Giants offensive player, possibly ever, has a clean off the field record, and yet some, even here that are supposed giants fans, can't wait to jettison the guy. And somehow is some fucked up twisted logic, he's the reason the team is 1-7, while a rapist and woman beater are awesome cogs to successful teams. If you don't see the fucked up hypocrisy there, I don't know what to say.

This post hit the nail on the head. Apparently a dog-pissing celebration is worse than sexual assault and beating up women off of the field.

is the reason I haven't finished a work project on time in 7 years. Almost 8!