As a good candidate? During the search for TCs replacement, wasn’t it widely reported that McDaniels had rubbed most in the league the wrong way and was not even on suggested candidate search list?
Josh McDaniels was only 33 in his first stint as a HC. He's now a more appropriate age of 41, hopefully learned from that experience and has another 5 seasons as the OC under Belichick.
RE: RE: I think Pioli should be considered but.... Â
+1. I want no part of the guy who thought Tim Tebow was a franchise QB.
Be very very careful to dismiss guys based on the first big decision or two they make when they are young. Remember Parcells 1st big decision he picked Scott Brunner over Simms. Scott fucking Brunner. Mcdaniels has had a ton of experience working with probably the best coach of our generation. By all accounts he's rehabilitated his image and he appears to have grown up a lot. Not saying he's a sure hire just would definitely consider him.
just because someone didnt do well in their first opportunity doesnt mean that should not get a second. Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Dick Vermeil, Tom Coughlin, Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan ALL found success and a Championship their second time around.
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
Not one guy hired away from the Patriots has succeeded elsewhere Â
None of them. How many times do people have to jam a fork into an outlet before they realize it will shock you?
"McDaniels is in his second stint working for Belichick and with Brady and the greatest QB in NFL history swears by him. "
So what? John Elway swore by Jim Fassel.
trouble understanding that the Patriots success is due almost entirely to Belichick (and Brady). Even after they go somewhere else and bomb people think somehow these guys are drivers instead of riders on that train. And both Pioli and McDaniel didn't just fail, they alienated the entire organization, the media and the fan base. People were lining up to drive them to the airport to get them out of town. Not to mention that Denver and KC have both done A LOT better since getting rid of them.
He just strikes me as a very creative guy, who I think will for sure work to build a construct that is best for the players to succeed. And I think he knows who he is and is comfortable with that... comes from a winning program... those are very important traits. And I think he can get along with the players, while having the hardware to back up being tough when needed.
He's not socially inept as McAdoo is proving to be...and appears to be a great communicator. I think this could be a great marriage, and I think having Eli at the end of the run can provide Manning with the sendoff we all want for him
Pioli I'm not 100% convinced on, but bringing in guys with smarts and out-side-the-box thinking is going to be necessary here. The Giants need innovative thinking that will inspire results, and I love the idea of somehow Parcells getting involved...
Some combo of Big Bill, Coughlin, and Pioli being in the building will help ratchet up the respect 100-fold.
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
What other assistants have come out from under Belichick and been successful? It's just too risky. Belichick is brilliant - his assistants come out looking better than they really are as a result.
just because someone didnt do well in their first opportunity doesnt mean that should not get a second. Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Dick Vermeil, Tom Coughlin, Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan ALL found success and a Championship their second time around.
Absolutely right. Spagnuolo fits into the same scenario if he even wants that job anymore. But a new GM of VP of FB should make those calls, not ownership. Like Gittleman for that job myself.
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
What other assistants have come out from under Belichick and been successful? It's just too risky. Belichick is brilliant - his assistants come out looking better than they really are as a result.
You mean the Parcells Coaching tree.. The bulk of the those guys- Crennel, Weis etc. were Both BB and BP guys...
I like the idea of getting a guy on his second turn Â
None of them. How many times do people have to jam a fork into an outlet before they realize it will shock you?
"McDaniels is in his second stint working for Belichick and with Brady and the greatest QB in NFL history swears by him. "
So what? John Elway swore by Jim Fassel.
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
What other assistants have come out from under Belichick and been successful? It's just too risky. Belichick is brilliant - his assistants come out looking better than they really are as a result.
You mean the Parcells Coaching tree.. The bulk of the those guys- Crennel, Weis etc. were Both BB and BP guys...
That's fair, but they became viable candidates under Belichick, not Parcells. Parcells has multiple excellent head coaches that came out from under him (and a few busts), whereas we have yet to see a coach come out from under Belichick and establish any real success of his own.
Could McDaniels be a great coach? Absolutely. But IMO it's risky because of the recent history of those who have spawned from BB's tree, and the Giants can't afford to get this wrong.
I'm not necessarily locked onto my suggestion of Kris Richard, but I do have serious reservations about hiring either McDaniels or Patricia.
just because someone didnt do well in their first opportunity doesnt mean that should not get a second. Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Dick Vermeil, Tom Coughlin, Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan ALL found success and a Championship their second time around.
Absolutely right. Spagnuolo fits into the same scenario if he even wants that job anymore. But a new GM of VP of FB should make those calls, not ownership. Like Gittleman for that job myself.
There are serious questions about Spagnuolo as even a DC. What about his performance makes anyone think he'd be a good head coach? He has had more bad seasons than good as a coordinator including some historically bad campaigns, and the complaints about his head coaching style weren't exactly centered around his strategy or preparation.
Given the compaints that came out about him from his time with the Rams, combined with the fact that the players that have been disciplined for the Giants this year have all come from the defensive side of the ball, I would have extreme reservations about Spags as head coach. I'd love to be wrong because I'll always admire the job he did in 2007, but I don't know.
An oft-overlooked move we made last year was to hire Martin Mayhew, former GM of the Lions, as Director of Football Operations & Special Projects.
Mayhew had a pretty solid record as GM in Detroit. His first move was to trade Roy Williams for a 1st, 3rd and 6th round draft pick. He also drafted Matt Stafford, got a steal in Theo Riddick in the 6th and Larry Warford among others. He's had some misses (Mikkel LeSoure, Titus Young & maybe Eric Ebron) but he's a big part of the team we see today, particularly on the defensive side.
If Reese goes, I could see us staying in-house and moving Mayhew up.
And even if Reese says, Mayhew may have some good intel on hiring a Jim Schwartz or Teryl Austin.
Browns won 11 games, + 1 playoff game. Since 94, the Browns have won 10 or more games... 1 time. The Giants have won more Superbowls since 1989 than the Browns have made playoff appearances...
There are rumblings here in New England that little Bill was not happy with the trade of Garrapolo at all and that Brady was the one he wanted to trade. He felt he could have gotten much more in trade value and that he really liked Garrapolo. Ceradi, the Pats beat writer feels that there’s a big possibility that Kraft stepped in and told Little Bill that Tom was never to be traded from the organization. Kraft never goes over Belichicks Head. They were talking on sports radio today how things are different these days between little Bill and Brady, so somethings going on.
If he ever wants out of New England it’s obvious where he’s going to want to go. Every time he come to Giants stadium he has tears in his eyes
Browns won 11 games, + 1 playoff game. Since 94, the Browns have won 10 or more games... 1 time. The Giants have won more Superbowls since 1989 than the Browns have made playoff appearances...
I know where you were heading re: Browns dysfunction when Belichick was there, but that Browns organization became the Ravens, who have improved greatly since the period just before Belichick arrived.
The Browns, having departed Cleveland and then restarting in 1999, have fared a lot worse.
There are rumblings here in New England that little Bill was not happy with the trade of Garrapolo at all and that Brady was the one he wanted to trade. He felt he could have gotten much more in trade value and that he really liked Garrapolo. Ceradi (Who? Maybe Giardi? Curran? A hybrid of the two?), the Pats beat writer feels that there’s a big possibility that Kraft stepped in and told Little Bill that Tom was never to be traded from the organization. Kraft never goes over Belichicks Head. They (who?) were talking on sports radio today how things are different these days between little Bill and Brady, so somethings going on.
If he ever wants out of New England it’s obvious where he’s going to want to go. Every time he come to Giants stadium he has tears in his eyes
None of the Brady/Garoppolo stuff sounds legitimate, nor does the entire detail surrounding it. But cool story bro.
I actually believe it a little bit regarding Garoppolo Â
In a vacuum, the smart long term move is to replace Brady with Garoppolo...probably after this season. Brady, to his credit, is making that impossible with his unusual ability to play at his age.
Still, Belichick had a fantastic QB situation entering this season with Garoppolo and Brissett there. Now he has a 40 year old QB with no real backup. That's scary.
Sure, but I'm having a hard time coming up with names that aren't a risk. If you have some no-risk names I'm all ears.
I do think he is a risk, but I also think he could turn out to be a great HC.
I also think It's incredibly shortsighted to dismiss it with the whole BB coaching tree argument. Especially since McDaniel clearly jumped too HC far too soon the first time, and Crennel was handed a dumpster fire in Cleveland.
So give me the the no-risk, guaranteed winner names. I'll wait..
coaches whose only success has come either under the tutelage of an amazing coach or when playing with an extraordinary talent at QB. Green Bay and New England must be discounted because Rodgers and Brady/Belichick likely make coaches and systems look better than they really are.
I like Andy Reid's success with less than top performers at QB, and if we're going to look at retreads I'd first consider Brad Childress, who actually was a head coach for a 12 win team and 2-time division winner in 4 plus seasons.
Grad school and theory versus the vocational/on the job training of other teams. They’re not trying to figure out anything other than the next thing. It’s clinical. You go out on Sunday and it’s “This is how this is play is done and this is how this is done. Cool? Great, see you on Tuesday for the next lesson.”
Going back to NE is humbling plus great place to get ready for that next shot. Especially with a mentor who had same experience. It’s been a long time since Denver. Plus he has experience with an old immobile QB.
+1. I want no part of the guy who thought Tim Tebow was a franchise QB.
That is why you hire him to be a couch, not a GM. He also won a playoff game with Tim Tebow as his QB. He was young, and he made a number of mistakes, but I think he will be a very good coach for someone, probably the Pats. I'd give him a look.
That said, how is he an ex-Pat? Isn't he still their OC?
In a vacuum, the smart long term move is to replace Brady with Garoppolo...probably after this season. Brady, to his credit, is making that impossible with his unusual ability to play at his age.
Still, Belichick had a fantastic QB situation entering this season with Garoppolo and Brissett there. Now he has a 40 year old QB with no real backup. That's scary.
I agree. Trading Garoppolo for peanuts was such an un-BB move. If he was so willing to trade Garoppolo, why trade Brissett for a guy who has a whopping 85 receiving yards? Something doesn't smell right.
+1. I want no part of the guy who thought Tim Tebow was a franchise QB.
Chip Kelly failed twice. Sometimes you just suck.
Quote:
pass on McDaniels
+1. I want no part of the guy who thought Tim Tebow was a franchise QB.
Be very very careful to dismiss guys based on the first big decision or two they make when they are young. Remember Parcells 1st big decision he picked Scott Brunner over Simms. Scott fucking Brunner. Mcdaniels has had a ton of experience working with probably the best coach of our generation. By all accounts he's rehabilitated his image and he appears to have grown up a lot. Not saying he's a sure hire just would definitely consider him.
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
"McDaniels is in his second stint working for Belichick and with Brady and the greatest QB in NFL history swears by him. "
So what? John Elway swore by Jim Fassel.
He's not socially inept as McAdoo is proving to be...and appears to be a great communicator. I think this could be a great marriage, and I think having Eli at the end of the run can provide Manning with the sendoff we all want for him
Pioli I'm not 100% convinced on, but bringing in guys with smarts and out-side-the-box thinking is going to be necessary here. The Giants need innovative thinking that will inspire results, and I love the idea of somehow Parcells getting involved...
Some combo of Big Bill, Coughlin, and Pioli being in the building will help ratchet up the respect 100-fold.
Quote:
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
What other assistants have come out from under Belichick and been successful? It's just too risky. Belichick is brilliant - his assistants come out looking better than they really are as a result.
Quote:
In comment 13680432 ECham said:
Quote:
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
What other assistants have come out from under Belichick and been successful? It's just too risky. Belichick is brilliant - his assistants come out looking better than they really are as a result.
You mean the Parcells Coaching tree.. The bulk of the those guys- Crennel, Weis etc. were Both BB and BP guys...
McDaniels.......BB's guys usually don't do well on their own, but as a second chance? He's older and hopefully wiser. And I do like his energy.
"McDaniels is in his second stint working for Belichick and with Brady and the greatest QB in NFL history swears by him. "
So what? John Elway swore by Jim Fassel.
And Fassel was a pretty decent head coach.
Quote:
In comment 13680449 johnnyb said:
Quote:
In comment 13680432 ECham said:
Quote:
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
Exactly!! The line of questioning should be 'what have you learned from your prior HC experience'. I would never discount a candidate who failed the first time as a HC. If the Giants consider McDaniels to be worthy of an interview, why not?
What other assistants have come out from under Belichick and been successful? It's just too risky. Belichick is brilliant - his assistants come out looking better than they really are as a result.
You mean the Parcells Coaching tree.. The bulk of the those guys- Crennel, Weis etc. were Both BB and BP guys...
That's fair, but they became viable candidates under Belichick, not Parcells. Parcells has multiple excellent head coaches that came out from under him (and a few busts), whereas we have yet to see a coach come out from under Belichick and establish any real success of his own.
Could McDaniels be a great coach? Absolutely. But IMO it's risky because of the recent history of those who have spawned from BB's tree, and the Giants can't afford to get this wrong.
I'm not necessarily locked onto my suggestion of Kris Richard, but I do have serious reservations about hiring either McDaniels or Patricia.
I'm not sure I'd like Pioli picking the players.
Quote:
just because someone didnt do well in their first opportunity doesnt mean that should not get a second. Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Dick Vermeil, Tom Coughlin, Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan ALL found success and a Championship their second time around.
Absolutely right. Spagnuolo fits into the same scenario if he even wants that job anymore. But a new GM of VP of FB should make those calls, not ownership. Like Gittleman for that job myself.
There are serious questions about Spagnuolo as even a DC. What about his performance makes anyone think he'd be a good head coach? He has had more bad seasons than good as a coordinator including some historically bad campaigns, and the complaints about his head coaching style weren't exactly centered around his strategy or preparation.
Given the compaints that came out about him from his time with the Rams, combined with the fact that the players that have been disciplined for the Giants this year have all come from the defensive side of the ball, I would have extreme reservations about Spags as head coach. I'd love to be wrong because I'll always admire the job he did in 2007, but I don't know.
An oft-overlooked move we made last year was to hire Martin Mayhew, former GM of the Lions, as Director of Football Operations & Special Projects.
Mayhew had a pretty solid record as GM in Detroit. His first move was to trade Roy Williams for a 1st, 3rd and 6th round draft pick. He also drafted Matt Stafford, got a steal in Theo Riddick in the 6th and Larry Warford among others. He's had some misses (Mikkel LeSoure, Titus Young & maybe Eric Ebron) but he's a big part of the team we see today, particularly on the defensive side.
If Reese goes, I could see us staying in-house and moving Mayhew up.
And even if Reese says, Mayhew may have some good intel on hiring a Jim Schwartz or Teryl Austin.
No he wasn't, that is a myth. He built the Browns into a playoff team...
If he ever wants out of New England it’s obvious where he’s going to want to go. Every time he come to Giants stadium he has tears in his eyes
I know where you were heading re: Browns dysfunction when Belichick was there, but that Browns organization became the Ravens, who have improved greatly since the period just before Belichick arrived.
The Browns, having departed Cleveland and then restarting in 1999, have fared a lot worse.
Quote:
was a failure the first time as a head coach.. sometimes you learn
No he wasn't, that is a myth. He built the Browns into a playoff team...
BB's legacy from his time with the Browns is the Ravens, not the Browns. He's the reason the Ravens had a strong foundation.
If he ever wants out of New England it’s obvious where he’s going to want to go. Every time he come to Giants stadium he has tears in his eyes
None of the Brady/Garoppolo stuff sounds legitimate, nor does the entire detail surrounding it. But cool story bro.
Still, Belichick had a fantastic QB situation entering this season with Garoppolo and Brissett there. Now he has a 40 year old QB with no real backup. That's scary.
I’d rather go the route of putting a cohesive team together rather than forcefeeding different processes for GMs and HCs from the owners box.
I do think he is a risk, but I also think he could turn out to be a great HC.
I also think It's incredibly shortsighted to dismiss it with the whole BB coaching tree argument. Especially since McDaniel clearly jumped too HC far too soon the first time, and Crennel was handed a dumpster fire in Cleveland.
So give me the the no-risk, guaranteed winner names. I'll wait..
*Gatorade
*hear
Who's Ceradi? Google has no idea.
I like Andy Reid's success with less than top performers at QB, and if we're going to look at retreads I'd first consider Brad Childress, who actually was a head coach for a 12 win team and 2-time division winner in 4 plus seasons.
Seriously, that had to be a joke. That would be almost as bad as Rob Ryan.
Going back to NE is humbling plus great place to get ready for that next shot. Especially with a mentor who had same experience. It’s been a long time since Denver. Plus he has experience with an old immobile QB.
+1. I want no part of the guy who thought Tim Tebow was a franchise QB.
That is why you hire him to be a couch, not a GM. He also won a playoff game with Tim Tebow as his QB. He was young, and he made a number of mistakes, but I think he will be a very good coach for someone, probably the Pats. I'd give him a look.
That said, how is he an ex-Pat? Isn't he still their OC?
Still, Belichick had a fantastic QB situation entering this season with Garoppolo and Brissett there. Now he has a 40 year old QB with no real backup. That's scary.
I agree. Trading Garoppolo for peanuts was such an un-BB move. If he was so willing to trade Garoppolo, why trade Brissett for a guy who has a whopping 85 receiving yards? Something doesn't smell right.