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Buying Organizational Talent

Nitro : 11/7/2017 2:19 pm
For context, Manchester City is a soccer team with incredibly wealthy ownership (Oil money). When they fell short of expectation several seasons, they went out and poached arguably the best coach in the world and made him the highest paid coach in the sport, taking home £13m-a-year. This season, they're starting to see dividends, Sitting in firs having yet to lose and set to break all sorts of goalscoring records.

Here's my question, could something similar be done with Belicheck? He has affinity towards the Giants after all. Maybe post Brady? Are there aspects of this we can throw money at? Coaching and GMs are outside of the salary cap after all.

Some fodder for discussion.
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I'm surprised this hasn't already happened  
Go Terps : 11/7/2017 2:29 pm : link
The top cap hit this year in the NFL is Joe Flacco at $24.5M (how's that contract working out for Baltimore...yikes).

But if Flacco is worth that much in a capped setting, what is Belichick worth in an uncapped setting? $50 million? $75 million?

The problem with that thinking is  
Diver_Down : 11/7/2017 2:30 pm : link
assuming that Mara and Tisch are eager to throw around money. Mara is not a wealthy man with respect to other NFL owners. Sure he has more than we'll ever see in our lifetime, but in 2015 his net worth was only $500 Million. Tisch has a net worth of 1.2 Billion. Certainly they are able to make financial decisions for the team, but it isn't like there is some vast bottomless well to just throw money around.

To put their wealth in perspective, Jerry Jones has a net worth of 5.6 Billion. And Shad Khan has a net worth of 7.2 Billion. The numbers are hard to comprehend, but literally Mara can't afford Shad's dingy for his yacht.
Diver, that's a fair point and to add to it, I think the Maras  
Nitro : 11/7/2017 2:32 pm : link
are a bit spendthrift to boot, but I guess the wider question of why this hasn't happened elsewhere comes to mind.

In my estimation Belicheck is married to Brady so long as he plays. At that point though, he maybe poachable, wanting a new challenge and what not.
The case that you listed was just a bidding war though, right?  
jcn56 : 11/7/2017 2:34 pm : link
He was off contract and went to another team. That's not the case with Belichick. Not sure how the mechanics would even work here - would you call and tell NE you wanted Belichick? Didn't the NFL prohibit the trades of coaches for picks the last time he was a FA?
To the larger point, I would agree with you.  
Diver_Down : 11/7/2017 2:37 pm : link
I'm surprised that organizational talent isn't poached not just with regards to BB. In the frenzy of the past week, people had even floated the idea of bringing Coughlin back as a front office advisor. Regardless of which side of he Coughlin allegiance one want to take, the Giants literally can not afford Tom anymore. As a VP of Football Operations, he reports to Shad only. Shad can afford whatever asking price that Coughlin demands.
Talent  
Giantslifer : 11/7/2017 2:50 pm : link
Belechick isn't the guy Giants want. The guy they want is the guy who makes the trades. How many times has NE gotten rid of some washed up player for high draft picks?
Outside of wide receivers they seem not to miss on the draft.
Figure out who that guy is and pay him what it takes.
Under no circumstances do we hire an assistant NE coach.
But Belechick does have a son coaching...
RE: Talent  
pjcas18 : 11/7/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13680883 Giantslifer said:
Quote:
Belechick isn't the guy Giants want. The guy they want is the guy who makes the trades. How many times has NE gotten rid of some washed up player for high draft picks?
Outside of wide receivers they seem not to miss on the draft.
Figure out who that guy is and pay him what it takes.
Under no circumstances do we hire an assistant NE coach.
But Belechick does have a son coaching...


You know it's also Belichick right? he's coach and GM (de facto GM since they have no GM).

Why in the world Belichick leave NE  
BillT : 11/7/2017 3:06 pm : link
I mean come on. Get a grip. Maybe if Brady retired but that's not in the near future from what we can tell. Yeah, the Giants are a mess but this idea isn't?
no, I don't think he'd leave either (so long as Brady is there)  
Nitro : 11/7/2017 3:07 pm : link
but think about the question more broadly.
I don't think anyone even  
Enzo : 11/7/2017 3:38 pm : link
knows what BB is making. Kraft could have given him a piece of the team for at some point for all anyone knows. The overall point is a good one though, in football it would seemingly make sense to spend whatever it takes for the absolute best front office and coaching personnel. Like why not give Andy Reid a giant raise to be just your offensive coordinator? Or double Harbuagh's salary and make him your your special teams coach? In terms of the head coach, I don't know what guy is out there that would be worth a godfather offer like this.
Jerry Jones  
Dragon : 11/7/2017 3:47 pm : link
Is just like this Giants way over hyped with not a damn thing sitting in the trophy case. The real sad part about the NFL is that he has a big rep and maybe an even more aggressive nature than the other NFL owners. His age is on our side he canít keep trying to run everything as Father Time closes in on him.
Jerry Jones .....not a damn thing sitting in the trophy case  
blueberry : 11/7/2017 4:36 pm : link
Dragon : 3:47 pm :
??? 93-94-96 Superbowls
Maybe lately -but not bare like Eagles bare trphy case
Talent  
Giantslifer : 11/7/2017 6:04 pm : link
The point was- there are more people than just Belichick making personnel decisions. He will not leave NE.
Find the other "smartest guy" in the room . make sure he brings copies of all NE's tapes & recordings
It goes beyond the HC though...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/7/2017 7:51 pm : link
would love to see our org investing heavily in coaches for all position groups. Not every team has the same setup on their coaching staff. For example, KC has 2 offensive Quality Control coaches and an assistant HC who has a background in offense to support Andy Reid. They also have a statistical analysis coordinator, a position that doesn't exist on the Giants staff.

We have no offensive quality control coaches and no assistant HC.

Maybe it would help, maybe not. I'd prefer to have more coaches though - more minds with lots of experience. More guys analyzing trends throughout the league. With our problems on offense, it would make sense for us to have a couple of quality control guys on offense.
Bad time to up the ante  
aquidneck : 11/7/2017 7:54 pm : link
Attendence and tv ratings are down. That means less revenue for all NFL teams.

Not a good time to pay more than has ever been paid before.
Iíve brought up Belichick..  
Sean : 11/7/2017 8:16 pm : link
The Giants should absolutely put out a feeler. A couple of reasons why there might be a 0.0001% chance-

1. There have been rumblings of some friction between Belichick & Brady. The Patriots traded Garapolo and it appears Kraft made the call more than Belichick.

2. Does BB still want to coach? If so, maybe coming to NYG with full control plus a young QB may make sense.

3. Ownership is not going to hire another inexperienced HC. I expect a big personality who will command respect similar to Coughlin in 2004.
We should hire these guys...  
EricJ : 11/7/2017 8:50 pm : link
RE: It goes beyond the HC though...  
jcn56 : 11/8/2017 9:07 am : link
In comment 13681269 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
would love to see our org investing heavily in coaches for all position groups. Not every team has the same setup on their coaching staff. For example, KC has 2 offensive Quality Control coaches and an assistant HC who has a background in offense to support Andy Reid. They also have a statistical analysis coordinator, a position that doesn't exist on the Giants staff.

We have no offensive quality control coaches and no assistant HC.

Maybe it would help, maybe not. I'd prefer to have more coaches though - more minds with lots of experience. More guys analyzing trends throughout the league. With our problems on offense, it would make sense for us to have a couple of quality control guys on offense.


I've been arguing this for a long time - and I still can't understand why it's not more obvious.

The Cowboys started this in lieu of canning Garrett - they went out and bought a bunch of former HCs, coordinators, and made them 'coordinators' (passing game coordinator, running game coordinator, etc.) in what would previously have been called position coaches. They paid through the nose in some cases, and IIRC at the time their staff was larger than the next staff down by 8 coaches.

It might seem trivial - but when the CBA limits practice time - the amount of 1:1 time a player gets with a coach is crucial. If you have more coaches, you increase that 1:1 time. The problem then becomes coordinating and communicating between the coaches and the HC to make sure everyone is on the same page.

It's obvious that the Giants have had a QC problem going on for quite some time (hence the 'great practice' and bad game problem). I'll stop short of saying the Giants are being cheap here, but I can't think of a good reason besides the cost savings for not doing this. When you're spending hundreds of millions on player salaries, it almost seems stupid not to do it.
RE: RE: It goes beyond the HC though...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/8/2017 9:44 am : link
In comment 13681669 jcn56 said:
Quote:

I've been arguing this for a long time - and I still can't understand why it's not more obvious.

The Cowboys started this in lieu of canning Garrett - they went out and bought a bunch of former HCs, coordinators, and made them 'coordinators' (passing game coordinator, running game coordinator, etc.) in what would previously have been called position coaches. They paid through the nose in some cases, and IIRC at the time their staff was larger than the next staff down by 8 coaches.

It might seem trivial - but when the CBA limits practice time - the amount of 1:1 time a player gets with a coach is crucial. If you have more coaches, you increase that 1:1 time. The problem then becomes coordinating and communicating between the coaches and the HC to make sure everyone is on the same page.

It's obvious that the Giants have had a QC problem going on for quite some time (hence the 'great practice' and bad game problem). I'll stop short of saying the Giants are being cheap here, but I can't think of a good reason besides the cost savings for not doing this. When you're spending hundreds of millions on player salaries, it almost seems stupid not to do it.


Agree. The thing about Nitro's post is that he's looking to spend tons of money on one guy who is no doubt great, but unavailable. Of course the Giants should get BB if they can. Beyond that though, they should be thinking that more quality coaching is better than less, and for a few million dollars they might very well seriously improve the quality on the field. That's got to be worth something.
I thought Nitro's post was tilting in the  
jcn56 : 11/8/2017 10:24 am : link
'anyone's available for the right price' direction. I could be wrong. I don't know enough about international sports/soccer to know if this is the kind of thing that happens on a regular basis.

In the NFL - I don't recall a recent case where a HC/FO employee was poached by another team when they were still under contract, without it following the promotion rules that allow it. If, let's say Jerry Jones with his deep pockets, decided he wanted Belichick to come to Dallas tomorrow, and offered him a stake in the team - would there be some way to prevent it? Or would there have to be some compensation arranged for Kraft to let him out of his contract to head to Texas?

Doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that might happen, money aside, because of handshake deals between the owners. It would certainly artificially depress the salaries of HCs, that's for sure.
RE: I thought Nitro's post was tilting in the  
Nitro : 11/8/2017 4:27 pm : link
In comment 13681841 jcn56 said:
Quote:
'anyone's available for the right price' direction. I could be wrong. I don't know enough about international sports/soccer to know if this is the kind of thing that happens on a regular basis.

In the NFL - I don't recall a recent case where a HC/FO employee was poached by another team when they were still under contract, without it following the promotion rules that allow it. If, let's say Jerry Jones with his deep pockets, decided he wanted Belichick to come to Dallas tomorrow, and offered him a stake in the team - would there be some way to prevent it? Or would there have to be some compensation arranged for Kraft to let him out of his contract to head to Texas?

Doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that might happen, money aside, because of handshake deals between the owners. It would certainly artificially depress the salaries of HCs, that's for sure.


A pretty good summation.
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