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The initial crime that led to the state of the GMen in 2017

FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 4:06 pm
After the 2011 SB, the 1st 3 picks of the 2012 draft were:

Round 1 - RB (OT Cordy Glenn fell into their lap)
Round 2 - WR
Round 3 - CB

After that horrendous 2011 SB-winning OL that had RT Kareem McKenzie retire afterwards, to not draft a OL in the 1st 3 rounds was football malpractice. This right here was the beginning of the end of Jerry Reese's regime. How Reese watched Eli get annihilated by the 49ers D-Line in the NFC championship game, and not make the OL the #1 and #2 priority that offseason, was gross negligence by the GM.

All of the Giants problems in 2017 trace back to this moment in time.
You may be right  
Rjanyg : 11/7/2017 4:19 pm : link
Glenn would have been a nice addition to the O line.
That is the Wilson, Randle, Holsey draft?

ugh
You couldn't  
JayBinQueens : 11/7/2017 4:21 pm : link
post this under your normal handle?
RE: You couldn't  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13681015 JayBinQueens said:
Quote:
post this under your normal handle?


This is my normal handle.

Can you address my post and not go off on a tangent?
if that 2011 line was horrendous....  
BillKo : 11/7/2017 4:31 pm : link
what do we have today?
RE: if that 2011 line was horrendous....  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13681034 BillKo said:
Quote:
what do we have today?


A completely different scheme.
That actually is quite the indictment...  
bradshaw44 : 11/7/2017 4:39 pm : link
They thought the running game would be fixed by signing a shifty back instead of addressing the line. And then Randle and Hosley, yuck. Then when they finally started addressing the OL, they picked sub par players.
What linemen Wes available in the second and third rounds?  
Ivan15 : 11/7/2017 4:44 pm : link
.
RE: You couldn't  
superspynyg : 11/7/2017 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13681015 JayBinQueens said:
Quote:
post this under your normal handle?


I like this new handle!
RE: What linemen Wes available in the second and third rounds?  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13681062 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
.


Giants had 32nd, 63rd, and 94th overall picks.

Round 2:

37 - Mitchell Schwartz
41 - Cordy Glenn
44 - Jeff Allen
60 - Kelechi Osemele

Round 3:

76 - Brandon Brooks




.  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 4:59 pm : link
Cordy Glenn over David Wilson

Brandon Brooks over Rueben Randle


Sigh.
RE: You may be right  
Beer Man : 11/7/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13681012 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Glenn would have been a nice addition to the O line.
That is the Wilson, Randle, Holsey draft?

ugh
It is because at that point Reese still believed he could build a decent OL using late round picks and FAs. He used the same approach with TEs, LBs, Safeties, and RBs (the exception being Wilson). During 2012 thru 2017 seasons what positions have hurt the team the most? The primary culprit in the whole Giants collapse has been Reese.
RE: RE: You may be right  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13681096 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13681012 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


Glenn would have been a nice addition to the O line.
That is the Wilson, Randle, Holsey draft?

ugh

It is because at that point Reese still believed he could build a decent OL using late round picks and FAs. He used the same approach with TEs, LBs, Safeties, and RBs (the exception being Wilson). During 2012 thru 2017 seasons what positions have hurt the team the most? The primary culprit in the whole Giants collapse has been Reese.



The Giants were so far away after 2013, due to Reese's incompetence, that Reese used McAdoo (scheme) to convince Mara that Coughlin was the problem and cover up his own failures...and it worked in the short-term.

Until now.

Jerry Reese being promoted to GM in 2007 was the single worst transaction in NYG history.
Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 5:17 pm : link
was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.
RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
FStubbs : 11/7/2017 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.


Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.
RE: RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
FireJerryReese : 11/7/2017 5:32 pm : link
In comment 13681126 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.



Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.



How many Pro Bowls did Aaron Ross make?

When was the last time Ross played in the NFL?

RE: RE: RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
FStubbs : 11/7/2017 5:34 pm : link
In comment 13681134 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
In comment 13681126 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.



Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.




How many Pro Bowls did Aaron Ross make?

When was the last time Ross played in the NFL?


I'm no fan of Reese lately, but we won 2 Superbowls with Ross starting. Winning Superbowls is the point, and Ross was a part of that. Ross was therefore a good pick.
Ross was a 25 year old rookie to boot  
Dave in PA : 11/7/2017 5:35 pm : link
.
Wilson  
Les in TO : 11/7/2017 5:50 pm : link
Was an impact player. It was unfortunate that his condition ended his career. Randle was a productive second round pick and Holsey was what you would expect for a third round pick.

The bigger Reese mistakes were Geoff Schwartz, Flowers and Richburg in that order. to a lesser extent Pugh over Long, Jerry and Beatty.
RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
81_Great_Dane : 11/7/2017 6:37 pm : link
In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.
There are very few fanbases that could ever put a "but" after "My team may have won the SB..." We Giants fans are very spoiled.
Hindsight is a bitch  
B in ALB : 11/7/2017 6:41 pm : link
but I don't think the Wilson pick was a bad one. He was a dynamic player who had a chance on every play to break one. His injury was complete bad luck - nothing more.

Hosley was a bum who actually flashed for about a month.

To compare the state of the team back then and the subsequent draft picks five years ago to the current iteration is an exercise in futility.

There are plenty of other factors that hold more weight in the debacle that has been 2017.
I think the Ross pick  
santacruzom : 11/7/2017 6:44 pm : link
would be viewed even more favorably if our seemingly allergic-to-special-teams culture allowed him to return punts, which he absolutely excelled at in college.
The Wilson pick  
DavidinBMNY : 11/7/2017 6:49 pm : link
Had me furious at the time. A complete luxury pick. Totally agree with the OP.
Could be right  
mrvax : 11/7/2017 6:55 pm : link
Certainly so in hindsight. Remember though that they had no RBs except a broken down Bradshaw.
Such bullshit  
aquidneck : 11/7/2017 7:05 pm : link
Giants picked last in 2012. And Coughlin was part of the team that made the pick.

The downfall of this franchise was three years in a row leading the league in games (and eventually careers) lost to injury.

Last year they finished near the bottom in games lost to injury and that corresponded to a winning record.

This year we seem to have reverted to our former league leading status.
Two things about Reese's tenure.  
an_idol_mind : 11/7/2017 7:18 pm : link
1) The sheer number of injuries the team has faced have crippled his effectiveness somewhat. It's hard to build a dominant team when you're constantly spending resources to replace injured starters.

2) That said, Reese never did himself any favors by trying to build good depth along the lines. The guys he did hit on, like Barry Cofield or Linval Joseph, were deemed too expensive to keep. His belief that he could easily replenish that talent meant he had to neglect other positions. It also meant that when he missed, it basically left the position crippled.
RE: Wilson  
Mark C : 11/7/2017 7:26 pm : link
In comment 13681166 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Was an impact player. It was unfortunate that his condition ended his career. Randle was a productive second round pick and Holsey was what you would expect for a third round pick.

The bigger Reese mistakes were Geoff Schwartz, Flowers and Richburg in that order. to a lesser extent Pugh over Long, Jerry and Beatty.


Tom Coughlin had no clue how to use Wilson. He fumbled in the opener and basically never saw the field again in any significant role. I can't just blame Reese. Coughlin, and of late, McAdoo, have failed miserably in coaching some of these players up.
Wilson  
WillVAB : 11/7/2017 11:11 pm : link
There’s simply no factual data to support Wilson as an “impact player.” It’s not like he was producing like Dalvin Cook and got hurt. Wilson couldn’t even get 20 touches competing with other Reese busts Andre Brown and Darell Scott. Wilson was a bust injury or not.

Reese has had many blunders but Ross wasn’t one of them. He wasn’t Revis but he was a solid corner for a team that didn’t have much talent in the secondary. Staley wouldn’t have made sense with how talented the OL was at that time and relatively young as a unit.
Our SB teams had one thing in common  
Jeever : 11/8/2017 9:10 am : link
They controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

You don't need shut down CB's if your defensive front is constantly pressuring the QB and stuffing the run.

You don't need a pro bowl QB to win a Superbowl if you have a great offensive line, can run the ball and have a great defense (i.e. the Ravens).

Our next draft should address this. Darft OL, DL and LB. If we still need help do it again the year after.

And please stop giving huge contracts to somebody else's cast offs.
RE: Our SB teams had one thing in common  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 9:43 am : link
In comment 13681678 Jeever said:
Quote:
They controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

You don't need shut down CB's if your defensive front is constantly pressuring the QB and stuffing the run.

You don't need a pro bowl QB to win a Superbowl if you have a great offensive line, can run the ball and have a great defense (i.e. the Ravens).

Our next draft should address this. Darft OL, DL and LB. If we still need help do it again the year after.

And please stop giving huge contracts to somebody else's cast offs.


The Giants did NOT control the LOS in 2011.
RE: Wilson  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 9:44 am : link
In comment 13681166 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Was an impact player. It was unfortunate that his condition ended his career. Randle was a productive second round pick and Holsey was what you would expect for a third round pick.

The bigger Reese mistakes were Geoff Schwartz, Flowers and Richburg in that order. to a lesser extent Pugh over Long, Jerry and Beatty.


Geoff Schwartz was a mistake?

He got injured.

At the time, it was universally considered a great signing. Not 1 Giants fan complained about the Schwartz signing.
RE: Wilson  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 9:45 am : link
In comment 13681481 WillVAB said:
Quote:
There’s simply no factual data to support Wilson as an “impact player.” It’s not like he was producing like Dalvin Cook and got hurt. Wilson couldn’t even get 20 touches competing with other Reese busts Andre Brown and Darell Scott. Wilson was a bust injury or not.

Reese has had many blunders but Ross wasn’t one of them. He wasn’t Revis but he was a solid corner for a team that didn’t have much talent in the secondary. Staley wouldn’t have made sense with how talented the OL was at that time and relatively young as a unit.



Wilson was an impact player on special teams. As a rookie, he was the best KR in football.

He was also 1 year away from playing in the West Coast Offense, the scheme that fits him.
RE: RE: RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
Sonic Youth : 11/8/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13681134 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
In comment 13681126 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.



Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.




How many Pro Bowls did Aaron Ross make?

When was the last time Ross played in the NFL?
I fully agree with the premise of this thread but you are reaching here.

If Ross is not drafted, Giants do not win the SB. Period. He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07.

Also, it's tough to get mad about Wilson, but from the 2nd round on is atrocious
RE: RE: Wilson  
Les in TO : 11/8/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13681760 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:



Geoff Schwartz was a mistake?

He got injured.

At the time, it was universally considered a great signing. Not 1 Giants fan complained about the Schwartz signing.
We emptied the vault for a guy who had only 1 full season starting under his belt in 5 years in the leagues, including a full year off due to injury. It was a risk and it didn't workout.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13681807 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 13681134 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


In comment 13681126 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.



Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.




How many Pro Bowls did Aaron Ross make?

When was the last time Ross played in the NFL?


I fully agree with the premise of this thread but you are reaching here.

If Ross is not drafted, Giants do not win the SB. Period. He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07.

Also, it's tough to get mad about Wilson, but from the 2nd round on is atrocious



"He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07"

No, he did not.

Name 1.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
Sonic Youth : 11/8/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13681898 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
In comment 13681807 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 13681134 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


In comment 13681126 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.



Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.




How many Pro Bowls did Aaron Ross make?

When was the last time Ross played in the NFL?


I fully agree with the premise of this thread but you are reaching here.

If Ross is not drafted, Giants do not win the SB. Period. He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07.

Also, it's tough to get mad about Wilson, but from the 2nd round on is atrocious




"He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07"

No, he did not.

Name 1.

The play against Dallas where he tackled a player with a blew out shoulder on 3rd down, saving a crucial conversion and injuring himself in the process.
RE: RE: RE: Wilson  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13681818 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 13681760 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:





Geoff Schwartz was a mistake?

He got injured.

At the time, it was universally considered a great signing. Not 1 Giants fan complained about the Schwartz signing.

We emptied the vault for a guy who had only 1 full season starting under his belt in 5 years in the leagues, including a full year off due to injury. It was a risk and it didn't workout.



"emptied the vault"


It was 4 years, $16 million with $8 million guaranteed.


$4 million a year for a quality RG isn't a big contract.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese's 1st ever draft pick  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13681902 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 13681898 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


In comment 13681807 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 13681134 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


In comment 13681126 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 13681111 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


was a sign of things to come.

He selected JAG Aaron Ross over perennial Pro-Bowl Left Tackle Joe Staley (who is still good in 2017).

Giants may have won the SB in 2007, but Aaron Ross over Joe Staley was not a good pick in the long-term.

Perimeter player over the trench player. That is Reese in a nutshell.



Aaron Ross was a direct part of the 2007 win (and 2011). I can't fault Reese for picking Ross.




How many Pro Bowls did Aaron Ross make?

When was the last time Ross played in the NFL?


I fully agree with the premise of this thread but you are reaching here.

If Ross is not drafted, Giants do not win the SB. Period. He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07.

Also, it's tough to get mad about Wilson, but from the 2nd round on is atrocious




"He made game saving plays in the playoffs in 07"

No, he did not.

Name 1.


The play against Dallas where he tackled a player with a blew out shoulder on 3rd down, saving a crucial conversion and injuring himself in the process.






Joe Staley is a 5x Pro-Bowl / 3x All-Pro Left Tackle.

Are you serious?
If the Giants drafted Staley in 2007  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 10:55 am : link
They would have never drafted Ereck Flowers in 2015.
I might have to refresh my memory  
Sonic Youth : 11/8/2017 10:55 am : link
I checked a box score and it might have been a swing pass to Marion Barber after the half with the game tied at 14.

Either way, it was a play in a similar vein of Pierce - there was nobody on that side of the field, and Ross made a big 1 on 1 tackle to save not just a conversion, but a massive gain and potentially a TD
RE: I might have to refresh my memory  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 10:57 am : link
In comment 13681911 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
I checked a box score and it might have been a swing pass to Marion Barber after the half with the game tied at 14.

Either way, it was a play in a similar vein of Pierce - there was nobody on that side of the field, and Ross made a big 1 on 1 tackle to save not just a conversion, but a massive gain and potentially a TD



Means absolutely nothing.

Joe Staley is a 5x Pro-Bowl / 3x All-Pro Left Tackle.

Giants passed up on a franchise LT. They would never have wasted their time with the Will Beatty's and Ereck Flowers' of the world, had they drafted Staley.
RE: If the Giants drafted Staley in 2007  
Sonic Youth : 11/8/2017 10:57 am : link
In comment 13681909 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
They would have never drafted Ereck Flowers in 2015.
If you change ONE thing about the 2007 draft class, you do not have the Superbowl in 2007.

So yeah, I guess you're right, since no Superbowl in 07 means Flowers probably isn't a Giant. Butterfly effect and all.

Bitching about the 2007 draft class within the context of Reese is just dumb. That class was instrumental in winning the best Superbowl of our lives.

You have plenty of other reasons to get on Reese's case (starting with your OP - the O-line post 2011).

Aaron Ross being one of them is just dumb. I can get some hand-wringing about Wilson over OL, but let's be fair - the guy got injured badly. You can't predict spinal injuries, and considering the sorry state of RBs on the Giants since then, you could make the case that they'd need Wilson.
RE: RE: I might have to refresh my memory  
Sonic Youth : 11/8/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13681914 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
In comment 13681911 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


I checked a box score and it might have been a swing pass to Marion Barber after the half with the game tied at 14.

Either way, it was a play in a similar vein of Pierce - there was nobody on that side of the field, and Ross made a big 1 on 1 tackle to save not just a conversion, but a massive gain and potentially a TD




Means absolutely nothing.

Joe Staley is a 5x Pro-Bowl / 3x All-Pro Left Tackle.

Giants passed up on a franchise LT. They would never have wasted their time with the Will Beatty's and Ereck Flowers' of the world, had they drafted Staley.

So let me get this straight:

the Giants won a Superbowl by the slimmest of margins against one of the best teams of all time, and you think that if that particular play did not happen (in another close game in the divisional round - one so close that it ended on the last play of the game) everything would have played out the same?

Romo through a pick on the LAST PLAY of the game in 2007. If the Cowboys even get a FG based on that one play, everything changes
RE: RE: RE: I might have to refresh my memory  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 11:04 am : link
In comment 13681917 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 13681914 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


In comment 13681911 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


I checked a box score and it might have been a swing pass to Marion Barber after the half with the game tied at 14.

Either way, it was a play in a similar vein of Pierce - there was nobody on that side of the field, and Ross made a big 1 on 1 tackle to save not just a conversion, but a massive gain and potentially a TD




Means absolutely nothing.

Joe Staley is a 5x Pro-Bowl / 3x All-Pro Left Tackle.

Giants passed up on a franchise LT. They would never have wasted their time with the Will Beatty's and Ereck Flowers' of the world, had they drafted Staley.


So let me get this straight:

the Giants won a Superbowl by the slimmest of margins against one of the best teams of all time, and you think that if that particular play did not happen (in another close game in the divisional round - one so close that it ended on the last play of the game) everything would have played out the same?

Romo through a pick on the LAST PLAY of the game in 2007. If the Cowboys even get a FG based on that one play, everything changes


Cowboys kicked the FG on that drive to go up 17-14
RE: RE: If the Giants drafted Staley in 2007  
FireJerryReese : 11/8/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13681915 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 13681909 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


They would have never drafted Ereck Flowers in 2015.

If you change ONE thing about the 2007 draft class, you do not have the Superbowl in 2007.

So yeah, I guess you're right, since no Superbowl in 07 means Flowers probably isn't a Giant. Butterfly effect and all.

Bitching about the 2007 draft class within the context of Reese is just dumb. That class was instrumental in winning the best Superbowl of our lives.

You have plenty of other reasons to get on Reese's case (starting with your OP - the O-line post 2011).

Aaron Ross being one of them is just dumb. I can get some hand-wringing about Wilson over OL, but let's be fair - the guy got injured badly. You can't predict spinal injuries, and considering the sorry state of RBs on the Giants since then, you could make the case that they'd need Wilson.



Not true, because Joe Staley was a vastly superior LT to David Diehl.

Giants would have had better run and pass blocking up front.

And where are games won? Up front.
RE: RE: RE: If the Giants drafted Staley in 2007  
Sonic Youth : 11/8/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13681930 FireJerryReese said:
Quote:
In comment 13681915 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 13681909 FireJerryReese said:


Quote:


They would have never drafted Ereck Flowers in 2015.

If you change ONE thing about the 2007 draft class, you do not have the Superbowl in 2007.

So yeah, I guess you're right, since no Superbowl in 07 means Flowers probably isn't a Giant. Butterfly effect and all.

Bitching about the 2007 draft class within the context of Reese is just dumb. That class was instrumental in winning the best Superbowl of our lives.

You have plenty of other reasons to get on Reese's case (starting with your OP - the O-line post 2011).

Aaron Ross being one of them is just dumb. I can get some hand-wringing about Wilson over OL, but let's be fair - the guy got injured badly. You can't predict spinal injuries, and considering the sorry state of RBs on the Giants since then, you could make the case that they'd need Wilson.




Not true, because Joe Staley was a vastly superior LT to David Diehl.

Giants would have had better run and pass blocking up front.

And where are games won? Up front.
This really isn't sinking in.

You should have greater appreciation for 2007. If ANY ONE THING goes ANY DIFFERENT WAY, Giants would likely not win that Superbowl.

And if the Cowboys kicked a FG on that drive, Ross saved a TD. it was a huge play, remarked upon at the time, and reflected upon after as one of the moments that could have changed everything. Joe Staley doesn't play defense. Maybe the draft strategy changes if Staley is taken in the first, and a CB is taken in the 2nd rd, meaning no Steve Smith. The point is that if any one thing changed, EVERYTHING else would change.

Bitch about Reese all you want. You've got plenty of ammo. But to point to Aaron Ross and the 2007 draft class specifically is fucking asinine on a number of different levels.

This isn't hard to understand, but it's pretty obvious to me at this point that you will never change your mind, no matter how misguided and incorrect your argument about 07 is.
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