Indy didn't build the best team but blaming Indy for his injury seems unfair. Luck always took too many shots from his rookie year. Total bad ass qb. Hope he comes back.
Luck would pay good money for even our OL - he was under pressure the second the ball was snapped before he got hurt, and his protection has been lousy for his entire career. Grigson absolutely screwed him.
Because one beat reporter conjectured this injury might be serious?
And $30 mil isnt that much for a QB... I'm almost certain Luck will play again, now the question is if the Colts pick in the top 5 (and they just beat Houston and have 3 wins, so i doubt it)... do they pass on a potential franchise QB or stick it out?
I'd stick it out personally, but i'm not a crazy stupid fuck like Jim Orsay so we'll see.
RE: RE: The Colts are still on the hook for $30 Million guaranteed Â
front office. Luck holding onto the ball was out of necessity not inability to regonize what was happening. He had the worst roster in the NFL the last few years including the worst OLine.
And Stan is a clown. Luck has more playoff wins than most QBs that have been playing for a decade and he did it with absolutely garbage rosters.
This unfolds in the off-season , if they draft a QB high or sign one of the big time free agent QBs you’ll have your answer. Alough they could go with Brissett another year if they think he’s legit.
RE: The Colts are still on the hook for $30 Million guaranteed Â
Luck's career so far is a good example of why forcing even a great young quarterback to play on a shitty offense is not always a good idea.
The Giants will likely have a new starting quarterback in either 2018 or 2019. Hopefully they figure out how to build an effective unit by then. Otherwise they'll probably be looking at a string of ineffective starters.
When Luck is hyped up as potentially the greatest QB of all-time and this is what you get out his his career, overrated is definitely a fair assessment.
You can blame the GM, FO, or whomever you like but it’s simply the reality of the situation. Besides, the roster wasn’t as bad as people say, and frankly when you’re the type of QB that doesn’t shy away from big hits these things happen.
Cautionary tale for the sheep clamoring for a mobile QB.
More a cautionary tale for those clamoring for a franchise QB Â
The thing is that those teams then make the guy the franchise QB (often to their detriment), and we view him that way after. Since 2000:
2000: Dilfer
2001: Brady (first year as a starter and only in place due to injury)
2002: Johnson
2014: Wilson (his second year in the league as a third round pick)
2015: Manning (forked)
Then if you extend it to first round quarterbacks who were still in their rookie contracts, you add Eli, Roethlisberger, and Flacco.
That's 8 out of 17 Super Bowls since 2000 that were won by quarterbacks that were NOT in that hyper-lucrative second contract. And some guys in that less expensive status came really close: McNair, Delhomme, Kaepernick, and Wilson again.
The other 9 Super Bowls (won by established QBs making huge money) were won between Brady, Peyton, Eli, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Brees. I wouldn't argue against paying guys of that quality at the top of their game, but they are way more rare than we want to think. For every one of them there have to be 10 Daltons, Schaubs, Tannehills, etc.
Teams have won with... and without... franchise QBs Â
Its not one or the other. As long as your front office knows how to manage the cap, identify talent through the draft, and generally buy low/sell high... you'll be fine.
Unfortunately, our front office hasnt been able to do this for the better part of a decade now, and here we are. Not drafting franchise QBs isnt going to compensate for that fact - they'd just spend the money and picks inefficiently elsewhere.
he was already worth his draft status delivering them two goodnplayoff runs with bad teams. He was also worth the contract. Guys get hurt, it happens.
This is comical. If the Giants took a QB that high and all they got was 5-6 years and a couple of playoff wins, they’d be calling for the next GM’s head.
he was already worth his draft status delivering them two goodnplayoff runs with bad teams. He was also worth the contract. Guys get hurt, it happens.
This is comical. If the Giants took a QB that high and all they got was 5-6 years and a couple of playoff wins, they’d be calling for the next GM’s head.
What's comical is calling for a GMs head when your best player by a mile gets injured. What isn't comical is calling for your GMs head who's put together the worst roster in the league right after drafting a once in a decade player.
the link was to a beat reporter's twitter account. He retweeted "Brad Wells" statement that people in the Colts org think his career might be over. I don't know who Brad Wells is, but it looks like he might just be a fan. Not sure if he has any specific insights or not - looking for someone who can confirm this.
The thing is that those teams then make the guy the franchise QB (often to their detriment), and we view him that way after. Since 2000:
2000: Dilfer
2001: Brady (first year as a starter and only in place due to injury)
2002: Johnson
2014: Wilson (his second year in the league as a third round pick)
2015: Manning (forked)
Then if you extend it to first round quarterbacks who were still in their rookie contracts, you add Eli, Roethlisberger, and Flacco.
That's 8 out of 17 Super Bowls since 2000 that were won by quarterbacks that were NOT in that hyper-lucrative second contract. And some guys in that less expensive status came really close: McNair, Delhomme, Kaepernick, and Wilson again.
The other 9 Super Bowls (won by established QBs making huge money) were won between Brady, Peyton, Eli, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Brees. I wouldn't argue against paying guys of that quality at the top of their game, but they are way more rare than we want to think. For every one of them there have to be 10 Daltons, Schaubs, Tannehills, etc.
Got it. So the options are 1) have a generationally great defense 2) clairvoyance to pick an ascending star later in the draft or 3) a veteran star QB.
Analytical gems from our in-house GM.
RE: RE: RE: Luck was and is a can't miss prospect Â
he was already worth his draft status delivering them two goodnplayoff runs with bad teams. He was also worth the contract. Guys get hurt, it happens.
This is comical. If the Giants took a QB that high and all they got was 5-6 years and a couple of playoff wins, they’d be calling for the next GM’s head.
What's comical is calling for a GMs head when your best player by a mile gets injured. What isn't comical is calling for your GMs head who's put together the worst roster in the league right after drafting a once in a decade player.
You’re biased when it comes to Luck. I’m pretty sure we’ve had this back and forth before re: Luck. Worst roster nonsense is hyperbole to exonerate Luck. There’s talent there on offense and it’s been that way since he came in the league.
and that talent is better than the Colts. They've had a better OLine and with Josh Gordon they've had better skill players than the Colts. There's no bias here, I'm not a Colts or Stanford fan. You just really have no idea what you are talking about, that's your bias.
TY Hilton has been the only consistently good player he's had and he's so far from being a top tier WR that it's not even worth debating. So if you are telling me that Donald Brown, Trent Richardson, and a washed up Reggie Wayne is "talent", than there's no point in debating this with you.
I've asked you repeatedly to provide a list of all these teams the Colts had more talent than since Luck entered the league. I never got an answer, I wonder why.
Hilton is not a top tier receiver? You’re kidding right? He’s second in the NFL this year in yards playing with Brisset. Hell top 7,000 yards for his career in 6 seasons this year.
When Luck is hyped up as potentially the greatest QB of all-time and this is what you get out his his career, overrated is definitely a fair assessment.
You can blame the GM, FO, or whomever you like but it’s simply the reality of the situation. Besides, the roster wasn’t as bad as people say, and frankly when you’re the type of QB that doesn’t shy away from big hits these things happen.
Cautionary tale for the sheep clamoring for a mobile QB.
Not to quibble, but it was less "greatest of all time" and more "the more sure thing QB of all time".
is going to be fine. You think Ballard wants him out there with this roster after he had surgery in January? That surgery takes awhile to heal. He’ll be fine for 2018.
I've asked you repeatedly to provide a list of all these teams the Colts had more talent than since Luck entered the league. I never got an answer, I wonder why.
Nah you’ve been answered. You just ignored it. Hilton and Doyle are pretty damn good for no talent on offense — and they’re doing it without Luck so you can’t lean on Luck for making them what they are.
The Colts have also won 3 games this year so far without Luck. Pretty remarkable for being the worst roster in the league.
Hilton is not a top tier receiver? You’re kidding right? He’s second in the NFL this year in yards playing with Brisset. Hell top 7,000 yards for his career in 6 seasons this year.
No, he isn't. That isn't a slight on Hilton but he's not a dominant WR. He is very good and I already said as much. My point was who else has been good on these Colts team and the answer is, not much.
I've asked you repeatedly to provide a list of all these teams the Colts had more talent than since Luck entered the league. I never got an answer, I wonder why.
Nah you’ve been answered. You just ignored it. Hilton and Doyle are pretty damn good for no talent on offense — and they’re doing it without Luck so you can’t lean on Luck for making them what they are.
The Colts have also won 3 games this year so far without Luck. Pretty remarkable for being the worst roster in the league.
You are naming guys on their roster, congratulations. Doyle is a good not great TE. And they beat the Browns, 49ers and Texans without Watson, so again, congrats. I don't expect any team to go 0-16, guys are still paid to play on both sides.
So I'll ask you again, since Luck entered the league what other teams have had more talent?
Irsay should face charges over his micromanaging involvement in ruining a young athlete’s career. Its not unlike what Snyder did to RGIII. No matter how bad the NYG season gets, we as fans should be thankful for the steady hand of ownership. Its what gives us hope that they will correct the ship at some point.
mean we have to scratch off the plaque that was already made for him in Canton?
I really wish people would have some perspective before anointing some of these guys as sure fire legends. Injuries, team construction, coaching - all impact how a player's career arc will turn out.
C'mon, someone really wants to argue that the Colts Â
Are “just names” and not talent it’s obvious you can’t be reasoned with on the issue.
Do you read? I said Hilton is a very good WR for the 3rd time now. Doyle is a solid TE. And that's pretty much where the list stops which is my entire point.
For the 3rd time, what NFL team's have less talent than the Colts.
His shoulder didn't heal right. They will probably perform surgery again and hope he can recover after another procedure. If not, maybe then they will say that his career is in jeopardy. At this point in time, this is a stupid statement as no long term determination would be decided after 1 surgery.
mean we have to scratch off the plaque that was already made for him in Canton?
I really wish people would have some perspective before anointing some of these guys as sure fire legends. Injuries, team construction, coaching - all impact how a player's career arc will turn out.
Ehh, with RG3 I would agree, he didn't have a large enough body of work. With Luck, he got better each season and put up an MVP-type season in year 3. Then he got injured. He then bounced back year 5 and actually had a really good season.
So anointing him to canton is just words. But he was well on his way prior to this injury. I don't see what the harm is in talking about it - it wasn't an 8 game sample.
his own worst enemy - he does hold the ball too long and take unnecessary hits - but the negligence on part of the Colts is borderline criminal. He injured his shoulder 3 years ago, and the "brain" trust there thought it prudent to allow him to play through it.
I know we all have legitimate complaints at times about how the Giants are run, but I would hope they would NEVER make those types of decisions with regard to franchise players.
How many "Would you take Luck (or insert other QB's name here) over Eli right now" threads do we need to see.
Some poster kept starting threads about liklihood of HoF induction with Cam Newton and Luck having a better percentage than Eli. Basically half of the board is on the train that has Eli as the worst QB in the division, and I'm sure the Wentz for HoF posts aren't too far away.
The NFL is a tough place to have continued success and our ever-growing ADD nature forces conversations before they need to be made. Hell, we have several posters here who keep talking about the Jags and Bills as being the teams to watch and learn from, and they've had a combined half a season of decent results.
Emphasis on decent - I think both are only a game above .500 right now.
Stop .. he's having a nice year because Brissett can't get the ball out to WRs and he's the dumpoff... but when you try to tell us how great Luck's weapons are because he has a 27 year old, undrafted, career backup now starting because they got rid of Allen, Fleener, etc... you're reaching big time.
mean we have to scratch off the plaque that was already made for him in Canton?
I really wish people would have some perspective before anointing some of these guys as sure fire legends. Injuries, team construction, coaching - all impact how a player's career arc will turn out.
They'll never learn.
I think many of us who thought Luck would be a great Â
Would caveat that it was predicated on him staying healthy.
Not true. All sorts of people were making unequivocal guarantees Andrew Luck was a first ballot Hall of Famer regardless of any external factor. Eric had it on the home page for like at least a year.
No, he destroyed himself.
Complete inability to get rid of the ball.
Holds onto the ball forever instead.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but Luck had a longer career that Peyton Manning?
Quote:
Who would have predicted that.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but Luck had a longer career that Peyton Manning?
I think he meant he only lasted a short time post Peyton's retirement.
Quote:
In comment 13681131 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Who would have predicted that.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but Luck had a longer career that Peyton Manning?
I think he meant he only lasted a short time post Peyton's retirement.
Ahh, okay. Thanks.
Quote:
In comment 13681131 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Who would have predicted that.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but Luck had a longer career that Peyton Manning?
I think he meant he only lasted a short time post Peyton's retirement.
Yeah that's what I meant, sorry if my wording was confusing.
Because one beat reporter conjectured this injury might be serious?
And $30 mil isnt that much for a QB... I'm almost certain Luck will play again, now the question is if the Colts pick in the top 5 (and they just beat Houston and have 3 wins, so i doubt it)... do they pass on a potential franchise QB or stick it out?
I'd stick it out personally, but i'm not a crazy stupid fuck like Jim Orsay so we'll see.
I'd stick it out personally, but i'm not a crazy stupid fuck like Jim Orsay so we'll see.
Orsay can you see?
And Stan is a clown. Luck has more playoff wins than most QBs that have been playing for a decade and he did it with absolutely garbage rosters.
The Giants will likely have a new starting quarterback in either 2018 or 2019. Hopefully they figure out how to build an effective unit by then. Otherwise they'll probably be looking at a string of ineffective starters.
Apparently you’re forgetting the guy that you were constantly blowing as being better than Luck?
Of course you forgot about your boy RG3. After that those gems, you should be freakin embarrassed to EVER comment on Luck again.
You are a complete and utter disaster, Stan.
You can blame the GM, FO, or whomever you like but it’s simply the reality of the situation. Besides, the roster wasn’t as bad as people say, and frankly when you’re the type of QB that doesn’t shy away from big hits these things happen.
Cautionary tale for the sheep clamoring for a mobile QB.
That too. Too many people take durability for granted.
Stan keeps bringing the stupid!
You're not winning championships in this league at this time without a franchise QB.
Maybe the last time a team won without a franchise QB was TB in 2002? That was 15 years ago!
Not sure what your point is.
The guy got hurt. Football is a violent game.
Bob Griffin. And it ain't close.
Quote:
.
You're not winning championships in this league at this time without a franchise QB.
Maybe the last time a team won without a franchise QB was TB in 2002? That was 15 years ago!
Not sure what your point is.
The guy got hurt. Football is a violent game.
I don't think you can consider end-of-career Peyton Manning to be a franchise quarterback.
Still, there is a point to be made that if you don't have a franchise quarterback you'd better have a really good defense.
No doubt, the Patriots, Packers, Saints and Steelers need to hold onto their future HOFers.
2000: Dilfer
2001: Brady (first year as a starter and only in place due to injury)
2002: Johnson
2014: Wilson (his second year in the league as a third round pick)
2015: Manning (forked)
Then if you extend it to first round quarterbacks who were still in their rookie contracts, you add Eli, Roethlisberger, and Flacco.
That's 8 out of 17 Super Bowls since 2000 that were won by quarterbacks that were NOT in that hyper-lucrative second contract. And some guys in that less expensive status came really close: McNair, Delhomme, Kaepernick, and Wilson again.
The other 9 Super Bowls (won by established QBs making huge money) were won between Brady, Peyton, Eli, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Brees. I wouldn't argue against paying guys of that quality at the top of their game, but they are way more rare than we want to think. For every one of them there have to be 10 Daltons, Schaubs, Tannehills, etc.
Its not one or the other. As long as your front office knows how to manage the cap, identify talent through the draft, and generally buy low/sell high... you'll be fine.
Unfortunately, our front office hasnt been able to do this for the better part of a decade now, and here we are. Not drafting franchise QBs isnt going to compensate for that fact - they'd just spend the money and picks inefficiently elsewhere.
This is comical. If the Giants took a QB that high and all they got was 5-6 years and a couple of playoff wins, they’d be calling for the next GM’s head.
Quote:
he was already worth his draft status delivering them two goodnplayoff runs with bad teams. He was also worth the contract. Guys get hurt, it happens.
This is comical. If the Giants took a QB that high and all they got was 5-6 years and a couple of playoff wins, they’d be calling for the next GM’s head.
What's comical is calling for a GMs head when your best player by a mile gets injured. What isn't comical is calling for your GMs head who's put together the worst roster in the league right after drafting a once in a decade player.
On behalf of LSJU, I apologize for Luck's going 3-0 vs USC, while racking up 148 points in the process.
Gather that still stings.
2000: Dilfer
2001: Brady (first year as a starter and only in place due to injury)
2002: Johnson
2014: Wilson (his second year in the league as a third round pick)
2015: Manning (forked)
Then if you extend it to first round quarterbacks who were still in their rookie contracts, you add Eli, Roethlisberger, and Flacco.
That's 8 out of 17 Super Bowls since 2000 that were won by quarterbacks that were NOT in that hyper-lucrative second contract. And some guys in that less expensive status came really close: McNair, Delhomme, Kaepernick, and Wilson again.
The other 9 Super Bowls (won by established QBs making huge money) were won between Brady, Peyton, Eli, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Brees. I wouldn't argue against paying guys of that quality at the top of their game, but they are way more rare than we want to think. For every one of them there have to be 10 Daltons, Schaubs, Tannehills, etc.
Got it. So the options are 1) have a generationally great defense 2) clairvoyance to pick an ascending star later in the draft or 3) a veteran star QB.
Analytical gems from our in-house GM.
Quote:
In comment 13681264 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he was already worth his draft status delivering them two goodnplayoff runs with bad teams. He was also worth the contract. Guys get hurt, it happens.
This is comical. If the Giants took a QB that high and all they got was 5-6 years and a couple of playoff wins, they’d be calling for the next GM’s head.
What's comical is calling for a GMs head when your best player by a mile gets injured. What isn't comical is calling for your GMs head who's put together the worst roster in the league right after drafting a once in a decade player.
You’re biased when it comes to Luck. I’m pretty sure we’ve had this back and forth before re: Luck. Worst roster nonsense is hyperbole to exonerate Luck. There’s talent there on offense and it’s been that way since he came in the league.
TY Hilton has been the only consistently good player he's had and he's so far from being a top tier WR that it's not even worth debating. So if you are telling me that Donald Brown, Trent Richardson, and a washed up Reggie Wayne is "talent", than there's no point in debating this with you.
You can blame the GM, FO, or whomever you like but it’s simply the reality of the situation. Besides, the roster wasn’t as bad as people say, and frankly when you’re the type of QB that doesn’t shy away from big hits these things happen.
Cautionary tale for the sheep clamoring for a mobile QB.
Not to quibble, but it was less "greatest of all time" and more "the more sure thing QB of all time".
Nah you’ve been answered. You just ignored it. Hilton and Doyle are pretty damn good for no talent on offense — and they’re doing it without Luck so you can’t lean on Luck for making them what they are.
The Colts have also won 3 games this year so far without Luck. Pretty remarkable for being the worst roster in the league.
Not everyone can be Eli Manning.
So the Packers should have kept Favre longer?
No, he isn't. That isn't a slight on Hilton but he's not a dominant WR. He is very good and I already said as much. My point was who else has been good on these Colts team and the answer is, not much.
Quote:
I've asked you repeatedly to provide a list of all these teams the Colts had more talent than since Luck entered the league. I never got an answer, I wonder why.
Nah you’ve been answered. You just ignored it. Hilton and Doyle are pretty damn good for no talent on offense — and they’re doing it without Luck so you can’t lean on Luck for making them what they are.
The Colts have also won 3 games this year so far without Luck. Pretty remarkable for being the worst roster in the league.
You are naming guys on their roster, congratulations. Doyle is a good not great TE. And they beat the Browns, 49ers and Texans without Watson, so again, congrats. I don't expect any team to go 0-16, guys are still paid to play on both sides.
So I'll ask you again, since Luck entered the league what other teams have had more talent?
I really wish people would have some perspective before anointing some of these guys as sure fire legends. Injuries, team construction, coaching - all impact how a player's career arc will turn out.
Are these the same people who feel sorry for Eli? Luck would kill to have his supporting cast.
Do you read? I said Hilton is a very good WR for the 3rd time now. Doyle is a solid TE. And that's pretty much where the list stops which is my entire point.
For the 3rd time, what NFL team's have less talent than the Colts.
I really wish people would have some perspective before anointing some of these guys as sure fire legends. Injuries, team construction, coaching - all impact how a player's career arc will turn out.
Ehh, with RG3 I would agree, he didn't have a large enough body of work. With Luck, he got better each season and put up an MVP-type season in year 3. Then he got injured. He then bounced back year 5 and actually had a really good season.
So anointing him to canton is just words. But he was well on his way prior to this injury. I don't see what the harm is in talking about it - it wasn't an 8 game sample.
I know we all have legitimate complaints at times about how the Giants are run, but I would hope they would NEVER make those types of decisions with regard to franchise players.
Some poster kept starting threads about liklihood of HoF induction with Cam Newton and Luck having a better percentage than Eli. Basically half of the board is on the train that has Eli as the worst QB in the division, and I'm sure the Wentz for HoF posts aren't too far away.
The NFL is a tough place to have continued success and our ever-growing ADD nature forces conversations before they need to be made. Hell, we have several posters here who keep talking about the Jags and Bills as being the teams to watch and learn from, and they've had a combined half a season of decent results.
Emphasis on decent - I think both are only a game above .500 right now.
Do you discuss with your shrink the need to knock the notables off their high-horse with your gilded keyboard?
I really don't absorb much from the posters that leave a regular dark ring around the drain, but you really do stand out.
I really wish people would have some perspective before anointing some of these guys as sure fire legends. Injuries, team construction, coaching - all impact how a player's career arc will turn out.
They'll never learn.
Not true. All sorts of people were making unequivocal guarantees Andrew Luck was a first ballot Hall of Famer regardless of any external factor. Eric had it on the home page for like at least a year.