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How important is Eli's consecutive game streak to you?

wgenesis123 : 11/8/2017 6:42 am
It would not be the end of the world if it came to an end for me. I don't want to see it end however. Not this year anyway. After watching most of my hopes for the Giants this year circle the drain, ending the streak by benching Eli would be the cherry on top of a big pile of shit. I can't bring myself to root for the Giants to lose and get that really high draft pick. They sure are headed that way though. As long as Eli stays healthy I see no harm in playing him. Get Webb some snaps but don't bench Eli.
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It's really all I think about  
pjcas18 : 11/8/2017 2:14 pm : link
.
Was Eli ready in 2004?  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 2:15 pm : link
He stunk as a rookie. Completed less than half of his passes, threw just 6 touchdowns in 7 games, and that wasn't even a lost season when he took over.
When Eli hangs up his cleats  
David B. : 11/8/2017 2:15 pm : link
He's gonna be Top 5 or Top 10 in ALL QB numbers, which is a statement unto itself.

But his consecutive games started streak may be his most impressive stat of all. Certainly the most valuable. He suited up and played, game in, game out. It's almost unheard of. And only two other guys did it longer.

That shouldn't be fucked with by coaching or management decisions. Until there's an official passing of torch IF HE'S HEALTHY, HE SHOULD START.

They cut Simms with 199 TD passes.  
wgenesis123 : 11/8/2017 2:23 pm : link
200 was a pretty big number back than and Phil did it with hardly any talent at WR. I kind of blame Carthon for dropping that TD against the 49ers but that isn't fair. Phil should have had a few more games as a Giant.
RE: Being that he passes his brother in two weeks...  
mrvax : 11/8/2017 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13681539 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
Important. If it was next year...then who cares. He is not catching Favre.


I agree. After being an Iron Man since 2004, he deserves it.
wgenesis123  
arniefez : 11/8/2017 2:31 pm : link
The Carthon drop was in a playoff game. So Phil would still have 199. Those are regular season TD's. He had 10 playoff TD's. Phil Simms was a hall of fame player he just didn't get enough games to compile the numbers because of injuries, the Giants style of play and two horrible coaching decisions.
arniefez  
wgenesis123 : 11/8/2017 2:41 pm : link
I thought that drop was in the 7-3 regular season game when the Giants and both 10-1. Just can't remember it all anymore.
RE: Over 100 replies  
Thegratefulhead : 11/8/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13682142 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and nobody can explain exactly why Eli needs to be benched, and have his streak ended, for Webb to get meaningful reps.


To really evaluate and have that evaluation mean something, we need Webb to get full time reps in practice. Then we need need to have him play an entire game, see how he handles adjustments during the game. Then, the next week of practice, you will have substantial film to show him and see if learns...repeat repeat repeat. The more time he plays and practices with the starters the more valuable and meaningful that information will be. You knew all of that, you are very Eli, I appreciate that. I am a large Eli supporter. For me, If Webb showed enough, I would not use that top on a QB, I might take Barkely or trade back for more picks. I would have a QB competition in camp next year, year, Eli would win and start. Webb will have gotten invaluable experience in the process.
wgenesis123  
arniefez : 11/8/2017 2:49 pm : link
Ha! Now you have me doubting my memory but I think it was the playoff game. I'll have to check.
Thegratefulhead  
arniefez : 11/8/2017 2:53 pm : link
I mean this with no sarcasm or malice.I don't understand this line of thinking. What if Webb plays 6 games and puts up the same stats Eli did his rookie year? Do we then say he can't play? Eli had a 0.0 QB rating vs the Ravens in 2004.

I'm curious to see Webb play too. Especially if the Giants are 2-10 or something like because at that point I want them to lose them all and he'll get a little real game experience. But I won't hold against him playing on this shit show team for this over matched head coach. So what can we really tell by that?
Means nothing  
KWALL2 : 11/8/2017 2:56 pm : link
It sure doesnt mean enough to prevent the team from taking an opportunity ,during a lost season, to evaluate a rookie QB over 4-5 games.
Above all else it's important  
Matt M. : 11/8/2017 3:01 pm : link
because he is the only QB on the roster that gives the giants even a remote chance of winning.
It means pretty close to nothing.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2017 3:06 pm : link
I'm a Giants fan and want to see the Giants win games no matter who the players are.
This season has gone to total shit  
JerryNYG : 11/8/2017 3:29 pm : link
and we better be on the verge of a total rebuild... All we have this year is the streak and some hope for change next year.
Start Eli for the next 2-3 games  
GeoMan999 : 11/8/2017 3:30 pm : link
Then start Webb for the rest of the season. I feel that Starting and preparing to start is much different than being thrown into a game that is lopsided.

They need to know what they have in Webb for drafting purposes. That is huge. Eli should understand that better than most. It is nothing personal.

You could still decide to start Eli next year, unless Webb looks like a star.
people keep saying he gives us the best chance of winning  
LG in NYC : 11/8/2017 3:41 pm : link
but who cares if we win?

this season is over; I realize many on the team have competing interests (short term vs long term) but from a fan's perspective, all I care about is a top draft pick and to see if we have anything Webb. These are literally the only 2 reasons to care about the Giants week in and week out. so let Eli get to #2 and then let's see what we have in Webb.

if there is a whole new GM and coaching staff, maybe these last handful of games won't even matter... but given where this team is likely headed (rebuild), I personally see great value in seeing what we have in Webb.

I hate this it would appear to disrespect Eli, who is HOFer in every way in my book, but I am a Giants fan first and that is best for the team. Not winning some meaningless game in week 13 or 14 in a lost season. and not this streak.
Everyone keeps ignoring that Webb  
Mike in ramapo college : 11/8/2017 3:50 pm : link
is not even dressed on game day.

You think mid-season you are going to promote Webb to first team practice reps and start him in 2-3 weeks? He barely threw the ball in pre-season and I doubt he gets much practice reps during the season.

Geno is more likely to take over than Webb.

The best way to evaluate Webb is to dump Geno and have Webb take over the #2. Live action is meaningless if the guy is not ready.

RE: Thegratefulhead  
Thegratefulhead : 11/8/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13682349 arniefez said:
Quote:
I mean this with no sarcasm or malice.I don't understand this line of thinking. What if Webb plays 6 games and puts up the same stats Eli did his rookie year? Do we then say he can't play? Eli had a 0.0 QB rating vs the Ravens in 2004.

I'm curious to see Webb play too. Especially if the Giants are 2-10 or something like because at that point I want them to lose them all and he'll get a little real game experience. But I won't hold against him playing on this shit show team for this over matched head coach. So what can we really tell by that?
How is he doing in practice? Is learning? How does he handle adversity?
Not very important to me.  
Carson53 : 11/8/2017 4:54 pm : link
.
It's not to me... but *IF* it is to Eli...  
MetsAreBack : 11/8/2017 5:13 pm : link
then this organization owes it to him to let him 'start' out the rest of the year, and trade him at seasons end.

I dont want to hear about how we owe it to ourselves to evaluate Webb.

A) He's a project who's not ready
B) No line and no receivers. What's he going to show us? His mobility?
C) He can still play the 2nd half of games and get his reps in
To the Fans that don't care,leave.  
Millburn : 11/8/2017 6:36 pm : link
Eli deserves this .Steve Wonder can see the problems with the Giants are not Eli's fault and he shouldn't be sacrificed just becuase some stupid fans don't care and want to see a rookie get creamed.
RE: To the Fans that don't care,leave.  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2017 6:38 pm : link
In comment 13682813 Millburn said:
Quote:
Eli deserves this .Steve Wonder can see the problems with the Giants are not Eli's fault and he shouldn't be sacrificed just becuase some stupid fans don't care and want to see a rookie get creamed.


lol, I agree with you, but I haven't heard the term "get creamed" in a long while.
RE: RE: Odell Beckham is shown more respect from this fanbase  
djm : 11/8/2017 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13681828 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13681826 Chris684 said:


Quote:


than Eli Manning.

What a fucking crime.



It's crazy to me.


Oh stop.
RE: To the Fans that don't care,leave.  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/8/2017 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13682813 Millburn said:
Quote:
Eli deserves this .Steve Wonder can see the problems with the Giants are not Eli's fault and he shouldn't be sacrificed just becuase some stupid fans don't care and want to see a rookie get creamed.

Leave? Really? Great take.

If you want to be an Eli fan above the best interests of the Giants, go for it. I'll go ahead and be reasonable instead.

This isn't about trying to wrong Eli in any way. I don't think the team should end his streak for the sake of ending it. But I also don't think they should protect/extend it for the sake of that either. It's just not a significant thing - he's chasing down tenth place right now. It's a footnote, not a record.

The Giants have an obligation to keep an eye on the future no matter what. And to whatever extent they can balance that with doing right by Eli (and the streak), great. But the former is the priority, not the latter.
It was more important when they were  
section125 : 11/8/2017 7:16 pm : link
viable. I don't want to see him lose it willy-nilly, but when it happens, I'll feel sad for him, but to me it is just another positive stat.
Keep it going.  
Giants_ROK : 11/8/2017 7:39 pm : link
The streak is a testimony to Eli's elasticity.
RE: RE: To the Fans that don't care,leave.  
Millburn : 11/8/2017 8:13 pm : link
In comment 13682864 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13682813 Millburn said:


Quote:


Eli deserves this .Steve Wonder can see the problems with the Giants are not Eli's fault and he shouldn't be sacrificed just becuase some stupid fans don't care and want to see a rookie get creamed.


Leave? Really? Great take.

If you want to be an Eli fan above the best interests of the Giants, go for it. I'll go ahead and be reasonable instead.

This isn't about trying to wrong Eli in any way. I don't think the team should end his streak for the sake of ending it. But I also don't think they should protect/extend it for the sake of that either. It's just not a significant thing - he's chasing down tenth place right now. It's a footnote, not a record.

The Giants have an obligation to keep an eye on the future no matter what. And to whatever extent they can balance that with doing right by Eli (and the streak), great. But the former is the priority, not the latter.




BS, the Giants themselves haven't been interested in the best interest of the Giants themselves .The Owner, GM and the Coach have all taken a walk on this team the QB has not but the fans want this or that ,the fans don't run the team and the team doesn't need their money between the TV contracts and merchandise deals the team is fine money wise.Again all you I don't care fans ,go watch the knicks.
RE: Hate to see it ruined  
Millburn : 11/8/2017 8:15 pm : link
In comment 13682077 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Especially hate to see Eliís streak and career ruined by McAdoof and Reese. I know Eli is being branded as skittish, and if itís true we certainly donít need to wonder why when he plays with a terrible O line and hasnít had an NFL caliber running back in years. But Eli isnít ďdoneĒ physically as he can still make all the throws and his body isnít broken down. Itís a shame because he should be wiser as a QB than at any other time and indeed - maybe his wisdom has led to his skittishness. Only an idiot would trust the Gíaints pass protection and Eli is no fool.

McAdoof is a fool and one that Reese willingly supported and promoted because he needed Coughlin to be the problem and not his poor drafts and flacid free agent signings and non-signings. Itís a shame that Eli may now be made to take the fall for McAdoof and Reese being so pathetically incompetent.



Agree with ALL of this!!!!
We know who Eli is  
Les in TO : 11/8/2017 8:24 pm : link
We need to see what Webb has got. McAdoo is not going to roll the dice because he's on the chopping block. But the best thing for the Giants given this season is over is to let the kid play.
It's what I think about when I go to sleep  
Sarcastic Sam : 11/8/2017 9:13 pm : link
and what I think about when I wake up.
Non-Issue After Chiefs Game  
Rong5611 : 11/9/2017 8:32 am : link
He will beat his big brother for sure unless he's injured this week. Would like to see that.

Its irrelevant after the Chiefs game, he won't catch Brett.

RE: RE: RE: To the Fans that don't care,leave.  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/9/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13682918 Millburn said:
Quote:
In comment 13682864 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13682813 Millburn said:


Quote:


Eli deserves this .Steve Wonder can see the problems with the Giants are not Eli's fault and he shouldn't be sacrificed just becuase some stupid fans don't care and want to see a rookie get creamed.


Leave? Really? Great take.

If you want to be an Eli fan above the best interests of the Giants, go for it. I'll go ahead and be reasonable instead.

This isn't about trying to wrong Eli in any way. I don't think the team should end his streak for the sake of ending it. But I also don't think they should protect/extend it for the sake of that either. It's just not a significant thing - he's chasing down tenth place right now. It's a footnote, not a record.

The Giants have an obligation to keep an eye on the future no matter what. And to whatever extent they can balance that with doing right by Eli (and the streak), great. But the former is the priority, not the latter.





BS, the Giants themselves haven't been interested in the best interest of the Giants themselves .The Owner, GM and the Coach have all taken a walk on this team the QB has not but the fans want this or that ,the fans don't run the team and the team doesn't need their money between the TV contracts and merchandise deals the team is fine money wise.Again all you I don't care fans ,go watch the knicks.

If you really believe that the owner doesn't care about the best interests of the team, you should find a new team. The owner will outlast you. Besides that, your take is so incredibly misguided that it's not worth response.

No one should care about chasing down 10th place on the consecutive games played list. Unless, of course, you considered Steve Garvey and Miguel Tejada passing Billy Williams for 4th and 5th place in MLB history to be appointment television.

In the meantime, go learn how to use grammar, syntax, punctuation and your space bar.
Guys... again...  
MetsAreBack : 11/9/2017 1:48 pm : link
a) Webb isnt ready - the GM has said such all year
b) The Giants arent going to find out or somehow materially secure their future... by starting Webb the back half of the season. We have no line and no receivers.
c) they can give Webb his reps in the 2nd half of games if they want (maybe even in the 2nd qtrs, who cares)

There's no rational argument why you can't let Eli start the last 8 games of the season, if those are the two time superbowl champions wishes, and then trade/cut him after the season so he can pursue that streak, if he wishes, elsewhere next year.
The only thing to look forward to  
spike : 11/9/2017 1:49 pm : link
For the next two years
I wouldn't bet on two things  
JonC : 11/9/2017 1:55 pm : link
One, the coaches doing anything that likely blocks their best chance to winning games. Two, the Giants not putting Eli out there after all these years and what he's meant to the franchise. I just don't see the end being near enough for him to sit.

Also, the team likely has a very good idea of what Webb is at the moment, and it's repeatedly said he's not ready.

I know fans don't want to hear it, but there's a good chance we're not finding out much about the post-Eli future anytime soon, imo.
RE: Everyone keeps ignoring that Webb  
Matt M. : 11/9/2017 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13682494 Mike in ramapo college said:
Quote:
is not even dressed on game day.

You think mid-season you are going to promote Webb to first team practice reps and start him in 2-3 weeks? He barely threw the ball in pre-season and I doubt he gets much practice reps during the season.

Geno is more likely to take over than Webb.

The best way to evaluate Webb is to dump Geno and have Webb take over the #2. Live action is meaningless if the guy is not ready.
True, but there is no rhyme or reason to promoting Smith. He isn't better than Eli and has no place in the future of this team. What would make sense at this point is to promote Webb to #2.
Jon C  
LG in NYC : 11/9/2017 2:23 pm : link
I hear you but this is the same group that kept trotting out Paul Perkins and Bobby Hart week after week saying these were our best options... and now we know better.

so I am not assuming their decisions are necessarily the right ones.
LG  
JonC : 11/9/2017 2:25 pm : link
I hear you, but players earn their time in practice. It's entirely possible these were their best options in that regard. Talent acquisition needs big improvement, without a doubt. And at the end of the season, there will be changes to the staffs. I just don't see them doing what's best for the fans between now and then.
The steak isn't a big but Eli is important  
Steve in South Jersey : 11/9/2017 2:29 pm : link
Eli has so much class and is easy to root for. If this comes to an ugly end like with Simms; I think my interest will dim. I have already lost interest in the NFL as a whole while still loving the Giants. An ugly separation may turn me into a casual Giants fan who doesn't need to follow the team so closely.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/9/2017 2:30 pm : link
I care about it - I want Eli to pad his stats for the HOF and he needs to play to do that. I'd like to see him get to 400 TD's. He'll probably have to play another 3 years for that - at least 2 for sure.
RE: It was more important when they were  
Jersey55 : 11/9/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13682865 section125 said:
Quote:
viable. I don't want to see him lose it willy-nilly, but when it happens, I'll feel sad for him, but to me it is just another positive stat.
whats best for the franchise is more important than whats good for Eli's image........
Keep it going  
Route 9 : 11/9/2017 11:24 pm : link
Webb won't save the day. You won't be able to get to see what he is capable of behind this garbage ass offensive line.
RE: LG  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/10/2017 12:13 am : link
In comment 13683777 JonC said:
Quote:
I hear you, but players earn their time in practice. It's entirely possible these were their best options in that regard. Talent acquisition needs big improvement, without a doubt. And at the end of the season, there will be changes to the staffs. I just don't see them doing what's best for the fans between now and then.

The problem with that logic is that, under the current CBA, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There really isn't enough practice time during the season for players to crack the lineup if they didn't do so in camp/preseason. It was certainly true in the past that playing time was earned in practice, but I don't think it is anymore. The lineup is what it is unless injuries or in-game ineffectiveness intervene (and sometimes even the latter isn't a given).
RE: RE: LG  
Britt in VA : 11/10/2017 6:59 am : link
In comment 13684451 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13683777 JonC said:


Quote:


I hear you, but players earn their time in practice. It's entirely possible these were their best options in that regard. Talent acquisition needs big improvement, without a doubt. And at the end of the season, there will be changes to the staffs. I just don't see them doing what's best for the fans between now and then.


The problem with that logic is that, under the current CBA, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There really isn't enough practice time during the season for players to crack the lineup if they didn't do so in camp/preseason. It was certainly true in the past that playing time was earned in practice, but I don't think it is anymore. The lineup is what it is unless injuries or in-game ineffectiveness intervene (and sometimes even the latter isn't a given).


Which is why Reese, and Ross, and anybody else who has any knowledge of the situation said they wanted him to sit and learn for a couple years.

I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand. It's so clear...
It's an incredible feat ... the man has not missed a game since the  
baadbill : 11/10/2017 8:29 am : link
day the football was turned over to him ...

But the amazing significance of the streak is its legitimacy and it would be completely unacceptable to "just start and then remove him" simply to keep the streak alive. That would serve to put an asterisk next to what is otherwise quite an accomplishment.

I would only want him to get two more games so he passes his brother.
RE: RE: LG  
JonC : 11/10/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13684451 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13683777 JonC said:


Quote:


I hear you, but players earn their time in practice. It's entirely possible these were their best options in that regard. Talent acquisition needs big improvement, without a doubt. And at the end of the season, there will be changes to the staffs. I just don't see them doing what's best for the fans between now and then.


The problem with that logic is that, under the current CBA, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There really isn't enough practice time during the season for players to crack the lineup if they didn't do so in camp/preseason. It was certainly true in the past that playing time was earned in practice, but I don't think it is anymore. The lineup is what it is unless injuries or in-game ineffectiveness intervene (and sometimes even the latter isn't a given).


It appears this coaching staff still follows the practice meritocracy principle.
Jon C  
LG in NYC : 11/10/2017 9:31 am : link
I agree... the immediate needs of the coaching staff are not necessarily in line with what is best for the team long term.

My comment was just more in response to the idea that just b/c the coaching staff isn't putting someone in the game doesn't mean they aren't capable. McAdoo and staff have already shown they will stick with the wrong guy for too long, so their decision not to play Webb doesn't tell me much about whether Webb is capable or not.
Understood, LG  
JonC : 11/10/2017 9:52 am : link
They've got a bigger problem of improving their scouting process for OL, self-scouting themselves as an org, and getting out in front of roster issues more effectively, become less reactionary as Terps has pointed out.
The Giants fired Coughlin and kept pretty much everyone else  
arniefez : 11/10/2017 11:24 am : link
on the coaching staff. Nothing has changed as far as the best players playing.
RE: RE: RE: LG  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/10/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13684575 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13684451 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13683777 JonC said:


Quote:


I hear you, but players earn their time in practice. It's entirely possible these were their best options in that regard. Talent acquisition needs big improvement, without a doubt. And at the end of the season, there will be changes to the staffs. I just don't see them doing what's best for the fans between now and then.


The problem with that logic is that, under the current CBA, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There really isn't enough practice time during the season for players to crack the lineup if they didn't do so in camp/preseason. It was certainly true in the past that playing time was earned in practice, but I don't think it is anymore. The lineup is what it is unless injuries or in-game ineffectiveness intervene (and sometimes even the latter isn't a given).



It appears this coaching staff still follows the practice meritocracy principle.

My point is there are only so many reps to go around given the limitations under the current CBA, so the opportunity for any depth chart movement is extremely minimal. It's not really a meritocracy unless all parties involved actually have a chance to display their merit.

A true meritocracy doesn't award bonus points simply for being the incumbent, but due to the practice time restrictions, the Giants (and most/all NFL teams, probably) essentially do, since the 1's get the majority of time and attention in practice.
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