Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: Knicks Chat: KP 4 MVP

DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 8:08 am
Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer


The Knicks have won back-to-back games when trailing by double digits entering the fourth quarter for the first time in the shot-clock era (since 1954-55), per Elias.


KP drops 28 points with 5 boards and 3 blocks and suddenly that's "meh" for him (stat line wise, and yet a franchise player level clutch showing from KP. The Knicks have been so bad while he was here he hasn't really had a chance to fhis "clutch" muscles too often. KP KP KP!. I don't actually expect him to win MVP this season but incredible how far he's come since last year where the perception was he didn't take a major step forward like many of us expected.

- Frank 3 points, 3 rebounds, 8 assists (wasn't Frank's best game and yet still contributed)

-KOQ 12 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks (keep KOQ!!)

-THjr 19 and 5

-Lance Thomas 10 and 5, looked like the solid player we remember when he first burst on the scene for us

-Kaminsky was invisible

-Dotson, Beasley, Willy, Sessions DNPCD, could Beasley be the one to go?

-Monk 8/17 21, 2 and 3


Around the league-

GF...16-21 (that alone is absurd) 40 points, 9 boards, 3 assists, 4 blocks

Middleton 20 points, 11 assists, 7 boards, 3 steals (3 point shooting is down so far but guy is having a big time season)

Lebron 30, 8, 9 and 3 (ho hum, hope he's okay playing Pippen to KP's Jordan next year)

Boogie 32, 13 and 6

Holiday is so throughly average. I thank my lucky stars we weren't the ones to give him 127 million

DSJ (huge game) 22 points 8 rebounds, 8 assists (9-22), +15

Markkanen 12, 2 rebounds

Jokic 41, 12 and 5 (beast)

Simmons 16, 13, and 6, 3 steals, 3 blocks... star

Fox 5-10 10 points, 8 assists
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13682217 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13682197 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 13682141 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.



Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.


your assessment of both Melo and the trade is pretty fucking terrible.


Really:

Melo is a willing passer, huh? Capable defender? Athletic enough to do anything in transition other than be a trail shooter? McDermott and Kanter haven't been productive? Getting that package as opposed to Ryan Anderson wasn't great? Its a pure coincidence that the second that ISO crap is out the door, others thrive?

Unless you know nothing about the sport, the answer is a definitive NO to all of the above.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13682228 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 13682217 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682197 Pep22 said:


Quote:


In comment 13682141 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.



Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.


your assessment of both Melo and the trade is pretty fucking terrible.



Really:

Melo is a willing passer, huh? Capable defender? Athletic enough to do anything in transition other than be a trail shooter? McDermott and Kanter haven't been productive? Getting that package as opposed to Ryan Anderson wasn't great? Its a pure coincidence that the second that ISO crap is out the door, others thrive?

Unless you know nothing about the sport, the answer is a definitive NO to all of the above.

sorry, but anyone who knows even a tiny bit about the sport wouldn't say something as dumb as "Melo is neither a good rebounder". Can't take your bullshit seriously after that. As for the Melo trade...just because the return was something other then Ryan Anderson doesn't make it "great". Once again the folks around here set the bar for this front office pretty damn low.
The reason Patrick started out as a ball of fire  
Phil in LA : 11/8/2017 2:01 pm : link
was that Bernard was hurt, so he was the number one option from the go. He was also older than KP. KP was the second or third option till this year.
true  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 2:07 pm : link
Patrick was 23 as a rookie. It was a different environment back then.
RE: The reason Patrick started out as a ball of fire  
giants#1 : 11/8/2017 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13682250 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
was that Bernard was hurt, so he was the number one option from the go. He was also older than KP. KP was the second or third option till this year.


Nothing against Ewing, but he was also 23 his rookie season. KP is still only 22.
Melo  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 2:07 pm : link
is a bad athlete for the SF position (better off as a 4, which KP handles far better than Melo). He's also got a poor work rate on the court (unless he's shooting). He is an unwilling passer. Bad defender. Transition no-show.

He's an isolation player who is adequate in terms of scoring efficiency. But the multitude of weaknesses in his game gives any of his teams a challenge to make up for all his deficiencies.

Good riddance.
I think Perry deserves a lot of credit for the Melo trade.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 2:10 pm : link
No knock on Melo, but just getting him to expand his list to include OKC was a big win. Two useful 25-year-olds on decent deals and a second rounder that will be top 35 is pretty good work. And I was disappointed when the trade was made, so there's no "I told you so" coming from me.
Damn these guys are going to blow my budget with the Mrs.  
Stu11 : 11/8/2017 2:31 pm : link
wasn't planning on hitting games this year with the daughter, but that will have to change. Honestly who starts in the NBA is irrelevant. Its who plays the 4th quarter. I think what was so horrific in the Melo era no matter who was coaching was the end game offense. It was stand around, get the ball to Melo and try and guess where he was going to hoist the 20+ footer from. The last few nights they have really run a variety of sets, pretty much all leading to good shots or a good probability of getting to the line. Who knows where this leads, but its been damn fun to watch. Forget about the points, last minute shots, blocks etc...KP's most impressive accomplishment is doing all of this without 1 godamn hair moving on his head.
RE: RE: The reason Patrick started out as a ball of fire  
Stu11 : 11/8/2017 2:36 pm : link
In comment 13682259 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13682250 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


was that Bernard was hurt, so he was the number one option from the go. He was also older than KP. KP was the second or third option till this year.



Nothing against Ewing, but he was also 23 his rookie season. KP is still only 22.

Not to mention Patrick played 30-35 minutes a night for 4 years in a league and level of play in the Big East that was extraordinary at that time. That was not the NCAA of today. You had a level of ball with guys staying at least 3 years and a group of legendary coaches that dwarfs anything we are seeing right now as a prep league. The Euro league KP played in is very good, but he only played 15 minutes or so a night.
Plenty of talking heads on radio  
idiotsavant : 11/8/2017 2:44 pm : link
Are saying what I have been saying since the get-go before the winning run.

Keep this roster as intact as possible and get rid of Noah.

Revisit ideas next year.

Let coach coach.
RE: I think Perry deserves a lot of credit for the Melo trade.  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13682266 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
No knock on Melo, but just getting him to expand his list to include OKC was a big win. Two useful 25-year-olds on decent deals and a second rounder that will be top 35 is pretty good work. And I was disappointed when the trade was made, so there's no "I told you so" coming from me.




Oddly enough it may have been Carmelo's 10 year old son who had more to do with his accepting OKC than anyone.


Quote:
“The night before the trade went down, OKC wasn’t even in the picture,” Anthony said. “I had already talked to my agent and my team and said, ‘Let’s get ready to go back to New York’ … My son comes in the room and says, ‘You’re going to training camp Monday?’ I said, ‘Yeah, that’s good for you. I’m not going away from the family.’ He said, ‘I wish you would go to OKC. Can you just tell them you want to go to OKC?’ Out the blue.

“I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘I just like you out there. I think it’s better for you.’ I’m like, ‘All right, son. Whatever.’ But in my mind, I was like, ‘Damn, maybe he is saying something.’ The next day I get the call, ‘There might be something with OKC.’ I said, ‘Take it. If they’re serious about pulling the trigger and the Knicks want to do it, do it.’ Then my son comes back and says, ‘Dad, just tell them you want to go to OKC.’

"As soon as he said that he left and went to [basketball] practice, and then the trade happened,” Melo said. “I don’t know what to make from that. I’m still trying to figure that out. Obviously, he knows what he knows. He is very smart about the game of basketball now.





Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I think Perry deserves a lot of credit for the Melo trade.  
Del Shofner : 11/8/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13682341 steve in ky said:
Quote:

Oddly enough it may have been Carmelo's 10 year old son who had more to do with his accepting OKC than anyone.

Quote:

“The night before the trade went down, OKC wasn’t even in the picture,” Anthony said. “I had already talked to my agent and my team and said, ‘Let’s get ready to go back to New York’ … My son comes in the room and says, ‘You’re going to training camp Monday?’ I said, ‘Yeah, that’s good for you. I’m not going away from the family.’ He said, ‘I wish you would go to OKC. Can you just tell them you want to go to OKC?’ Out the blue."

Link - ( New Window )


Melo's son is a Knicks fan who reads BBI?

Seriously, that's a crazy story - had not heard it.
RE: Plenty of talking heads on radio  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13682326 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Are saying what I have been saying since the get-go before the winning run.

Keep this roster as intact as possible and get rid of Noah.

Revisit ideas next year.

Let coach coach.

Nobody is taking Noah. You keep saying this. It's not an option otherwise potential Noah trades would fill up 90% of BBI's Knicks threads.
Noah  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:14 pm : link
is 33 in 2 months, has played 142/246 team games over the last 3 seasons. He's so bad at the FT you can't have out there late in games and he's owed both years (3) and money (54).
if only Isiah were running a team somewhere  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 3:15 pm : link
It's so crazy, it just might work!
Willy time?  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:16 pm : link
Ian Begley‏
@IanBegley
Following Following @IanBegley
More
The Knicks say Kristaps Porzingis is questionable for tonight's game against Orlando with a sprained left ankle and contused right elbow.
Rest  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:21 pm : link
KP
RE: Rest  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13682396 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
KP


he was questionable yesterday also, they have a couple of days off after tonight, can rest then
So with what we have now seen  
larryflower37 : 11/8/2017 3:23 pm : link
What's everyone's win total now?

I am thrilled at the current run but is it sub stainable ?

I would be thrilled with .500 and the 8th seed.
Health  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:36 pm : link
as always is the X-factor. Despite depth at the 5 they are very thin at other spots.
He had the ankle last night and played  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 3:38 pm : link
so unless he injured it further, which wasn't apparent, I am guessing he plays.
Tonight  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:47 pm : link
would be a good night to give Frank serious burn. Magic are are beyond thin/crappy at the point.
RE: So with what we have now seen  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13682404 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
What's everyone's win total now?

I am thrilled at the current run but is it sub stainable ?

I would be thrilled with .500 and the 8th seed.


Let's just have a fun season without expectations, IMO. KP averaging 30 a game is probably not sustainable over the remaining 72 games. It's no way to build a contender, but as trashy as this conference is, they should make the playoffs.
Magic  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 3:58 pm : link
at PG

Shelvin Mack... the backup 1 is probably going to be out of position Terrence Ross or Fourier
RE: Frank has only attempted  
djm : 11/8/2017 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13681729 Enzo said:
Quote:
4 free throws so far. Forget making shots in the lane, I think he's only even BEEN in the lane like 5 times this season, lol. Of course he's still a baby and there's lots of time for him to grow.


He looks awkward shooting the free throws let alone getting to the free throw line. He will work on that.
He just turned 19  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 4:07 pm : link
Getting comfortable driving to the hoop against NFL big men will take a little time and that's to be expected.

He at least went for it once last night but ended up getting the charge do to his inexperience with doing just that. He will get there.
RE: He just turned 19  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13682552 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Getting comfortable driving to the hoop against NFL big men will take a little time and that's to be expected.

He at least went for it once last night but ended up getting the charge do to his inexperience with doing just that. He will get there.


It's not just his age. It's also his ball handling. As I noted above he took 29 total free throws last season in France and the competition was flat out garbage (#7 league in the world per Fran).
Just  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:10 pm : link
for comparisons sake he was 11th on his own team in France last year (0.9 FTA per game)
Link - ( New Window )
I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about contracts  
djm : 11/8/2017 4:11 pm : link
or future contracts or all this talk of having to make a trade. Don't do ANYTHING other than trading shit away we don't want, IE Noah.

First off, all this talk of pending FAs coming here is more or less a pipe dream even if the KNicks become the garden of eden from a perception stand point. How often does that rare special younger player avail himself? Rarely. And the KNicks are developing their own blend of special players AND more often than not, if a team has a chance to add a great player that wants to come the team finds a way to make the salary structure work. Honestly, I think we should worry about that player if and when. Enough of this moving heaven and earth to mold the cap into a more pliable construct.

Don't re-sign anyone you don't want. Don't overpay anyone that isn't worth the overpay. If you like Kanter, offer him a deal we're good with. If he leaves, fine, Same with KOQ.

Don't worry about 2019. Just let this team marinate and develop. We don't have to sign anyone next summer and when Noah and Lee come off the Knicks will be in a position to replace them with younger better players. Works for me.
Melo WAS a very good rebounder  
manh george : 11/8/2017 4:15 pm : link
He's still good, but may be declining. 5.8 pg for the season, but admittedly, 10.0 for 3 games in November. Does that offset mediocre-at-best defense, a 41% shooting average (yuck), 32.8% from the three (yuckier), and the continuing ball-stopping tendencies? Not in my league. And, of course he is 33 and relatively brittle. Odds on making it through a season without at least one shoulder or knee injury are small--and I guarantee that he won't get younger. Will his shooting stats get better? Why would they?

When I compare "value" on someone like McDermott, I am looking at current contributional capacity--which I expect to get better as the team gets used to him and vice versa-- age, and cost. Cost: $2.5 million versus $24.6 million. Melo at this point in his career is a spectacular overpay, which means negative net worth. Good to get Kantor, McDermott and the 35th pick or so for a player with negative net worth.
RE: I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about contracts  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13682562 djm said:
Quote:
or future contracts or all this talk of having to make a trade. Don't do ANYTHING other than trading shit away we don't want, IE Noah.

First off, all this talk of pending FAs coming here is more or less a pipe dream even if the KNicks become the garden of eden from a perception stand point. How often does that rare special younger player avail himself? Rarely. And the KNicks are developing their own blend of special players AND more often than not, if a team has a chance to add a great player that wants to come the team finds a way to make the salary structure work. Honestly, I think we should worry about that player if and when. Enough of this moving heaven and earth to mold the cap into a more pliable construct.

Don't re-sign anyone you don't want. Don't overpay anyone that isn't worth the overpay. If you like Kanter, offer him a deal we're good with. If he leaves, fine, Same with KOQ.

Don't worry about 2019. Just let this team marinate and develop. We don't have to sign anyone next summer and when Noah and Lee come off the Knicks will be in a position to replace them with younger better players. Works for me.


But there IS value to moving a guy like Lee. It opens up PT to see what guys like McDermott (extended role) and Dotson (role and experience) can do. I don't think people realize how mediocre Courtney Lee is. In my view seeing what McDermott/Dotson can do has legit value. I'd deal lee for a late first or even a recent draftee who needs a new team.
re: Melo  
giants#1 : 11/8/2017 4:22 pm : link
With a lower usage this year and presumably less attention from the other teams D due to PG and Westbrook playing alongside him, his shooting % could be higher this year.
ESPN  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:24 pm : link
has some net stat called ESPN rating

Giannis is #1 56.1
KP is 7th 44.9

2nd best Knick is Kanter 29.2 (50th in the NBA)
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 4:35 pm : link
Chris Fedor‏Verified account
@ChrisFedor
Follow Follow @ChrisFedor
More
#Cavs Derrick Rose now has eight more turnovers (19) than assists (11) on the season
Lee  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 5:10 pm : link
for Mirotic... boom!
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Lee  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 5:32 pm : link
In comment 13682706 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for Mirotic... boom! Link - ( New Window )


That article says Bills can't trade him until Jan 15th so he and Portis probably work it out by then.
no kp tonight  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 5:35 pm : link
and right on cue michael kay ripping him, saying this is why he will never be a superstar
syas if he plays the next game  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 5:36 pm : link
something sketchy about him not playing tonight
Sketchy  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 5:45 pm : link
Lol. You wake up and your body doesn’t respond the way you had hoped. Maybe, just maybe KP knows his body more than fat turd Michael Kay and may also realize it’s a long season and missing a game vs. Orlando now is better than 3 weeks of playing through injury in March
RE: Sketchy  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 5:46 pm : link
In comment 13682759 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Lol. You wake up and your body doesn’t respond the way you had hoped. Maybe, just maybe KP knows his body more than fat turd Michael Kay and may also realize it’s a long season and missing a game vs. Orlando now is better than 3 weeks of playing through injury in March


says if he is really hurt he would miss the next 2 games..

maybe just maybe knicks see a chance to give him 3 days off
BREAKING NEWS...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2017 5:46 pm : link
Michael Kay said something stupid!!!!
Have they announced he is out or is he still questionable?  
steve in ky : 11/8/2017 5:47 pm : link
.
KP  
Keith : 11/8/2017 5:49 pm : link
Out
Kay and Co.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 5:49 pm : link
have been obsessed about KP and his injury risk. How many guys play 80+ games per season? And players of all shapes and sizes suffer the same types of basketball injuries - Gordon Hayward and Jeremy Lin come to mind as the most recent, serious cases. We all knew it would take a few years for him to develop physically. So far, no chronic issues have emerged, which is all that matters.
No KP just means  
Canton : 11/8/2017 5:51 pm : link
We get more Lance Thomas!

Can't wait....
Is Dwyane Wade a superstar?  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 5:51 pm : link
Kyrie? Chris Paul? Anthony Davis? Guys get hurt.
if  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 5:57 pm : link
This were a home game and I had tickets I’d be so upset lol (jinxing myself so Kuz drops a historic 47 on Orlando tonight)
RE: RE: I don't think there's any reason at all to worry about contracts  
djm : 11/8/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13682575 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13682562 djm said:


Quote:


or future contracts or all this talk of having to make a trade. Don't do ANYTHING other than trading shit away we don't want, IE Noah.

First off, all this talk of pending FAs coming here is more or less a pipe dream even if the KNicks become the garden of eden from a perception stand point. How often does that rare special younger player avail himself? Rarely. And the KNicks are developing their own blend of special players AND more often than not, if a team has a chance to add a great player that wants to come the team finds a way to make the salary structure work. Honestly, I think we should worry about that player if and when. Enough of this moving heaven and earth to mold the cap into a more pliable construct.

Don't re-sign anyone you don't want. Don't overpay anyone that isn't worth the overpay. If you like Kanter, offer him a deal we're good with. If he leaves, fine, Same with KOQ.

Don't worry about 2019. Just let this team marinate and develop. We don't have to sign anyone next summer and when Noah and Lee come off the Knicks will be in a position to replace them with younger better players. Works for me.



But there IS value to moving a guy like Lee. It opens up PT to see what guys like McDermott (extended role) and Dotson (role and experience) can do. I don't think people realize how mediocre Courtney Lee is. In my view seeing what McDermott/Dotson can do has legit value. I'd deal lee for a late first or even a recent draftee who needs a new team.


Agree about lee. He's not Noah from a liability standpoint but I'd move him.
RE: no kp tonight  
djm : 11/8/2017 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13682742 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and right on cue michael kay ripping him, saying this is why he will never be a superstar


I refuse to believe that Kay's gigantic head said something that stupid. Fully aware that he is THAT stupid but he couldn't have said that. No way.

Ok I believe you.
RE: RE: no kp tonight  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13682777 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13682742 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and right on cue michael kay ripping him, saying this is why he will never be a superstar



I refuse to believe that Kay's gigantic head said something that stupid. Fully aware that he is THAT stupid but he couldn't have said that. No way.

Ok I believe you.


he doubled down saying he is basically faking if he plays saturday
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner