for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Knicks Chat: KP 4 MVP

DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 8:08 am
Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer


The Knicks have won back-to-back games when trailing by double digits entering the fourth quarter for the first time in the shot-clock era (since 1954-55), per Elias.


KP drops 28 points with 5 boards and 3 blocks and suddenly that's "meh" for him (stat line wise, and yet a franchise player level clutch showing from KP. The Knicks have been so bad while he was here he hasn't really had a chance to fhis "clutch" muscles too often. KP KP KP!. I don't actually expect him to win MVP this season but incredible how far he's come since last year where the perception was he didn't take a major step forward like many of us expected.

- Frank 3 points, 3 rebounds, 8 assists (wasn't Frank's best game and yet still contributed)

-KOQ 12 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks (keep KOQ!!)

-THjr 19 and 5

-Lance Thomas 10 and 5, looked like the solid player we remember when he first burst on the scene for us

-Kaminsky was invisible

-Dotson, Beasley, Willy, Sessions DNPCD, could Beasley be the one to go?

-Monk 8/17 21, 2 and 3


Around the league-

GF...16-21 (that alone is absurd) 40 points, 9 boards, 3 assists, 4 blocks

Middleton 20 points, 11 assists, 7 boards, 3 steals (3 point shooting is down so far but guy is having a big time season)

Lebron 30, 8, 9 and 3 (ho hum, hope he's okay playing Pippen to KP's Jordan next year)

Boogie 32, 13 and 6

Holiday is so throughly average. I thank my lucky stars we weren't the ones to give him 127 million

DSJ (huge game) 22 points 8 rebounds, 8 assists (9-22), +15

Markkanen 12, 2 rebounds

Jokic 41, 12 and 5 (beast)

Simmons 16, 13, and 6, 3 steals, 3 blocks... star

Fox 5-10 10 points, 8 assists
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
RE: Obviously there is a long way to go...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13681726 Italianju said:
Quote:
but the knicks need to be careful with the roster construction if they really are going to be a team thats fighting for a playoff spot instead of a top 5 pick. We only kind of assumed that we could have a shot at another star in the draft, but that might not happen now. I agree id like to see them resign KOQ and maybe kanter and mcbuckets, but that would pretty much lock you into that roster for a couple more seasons. I mean maybe they could make some salary work this year to go out and sign someone but with capholds on these guys im not sure it gets us anywhere near a big name FA (and im not sure who that big name FA would even be this offseason). Realistically id expect KOQ, kanter, and Mcbuckets to combine for about 25 mill a year (at minimum). Add that to Noah, Lee, KP extension, THJR, etc... and that is your roster until the Noah/Lee deals expire.

Phil/Mills fucked us with regard to cap space in the short term - and they squandered the opportunity to do a proper rebuild around KP with regard to accumulating assets. So maybe it's not the worst idea in the world to keep some of these guys especially since many of them (Kanter, McDermott, KOQ) are still relatively young.

i really with the NBA would adjust the cap hold....  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:42 am : link
i get when a guy is making like 4 mill that you have to bump up the cap hold, but when a guy like Kanter is making 18 mill whats the point of getting a cap hold if the cap hold is going to be like 30 mill.
RE: I'm  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:43 am : link
In comment 13681748 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not even "bashing" the kid but like I said, last season 32 games played 29 free throws attempted! 29! He took more 3's than FT's. I think it's a valid "concern" until it isn't Link - ( New Window )


he hesitates a lot, it is almost like he is afraid to try and go get his
The Noah...  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:44 am : link
deal is such a killer for us. If you took that off the books then the knicks might have a shot at adding a solid player this offseason. I can live with the THJR deal since he is young and producing. ANd i dont love the Lee or Thomas deals, but they are reasonable. Stupid Noah.
RE: The Noah...  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:45 am : link
In comment 13681758 Italianju said:
Quote:
deal is such a killer for us. If you took that off the books then the knicks might have a shot at adding a solid player this offseason. I can live with the THJR deal since he is young and producing. ANd i dont love the Lee or Thomas deals, but they are reasonable. Stupid Noah.


lee is tradeable and lance's 4th year is non guaranteed.
Lee  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:46 am : link
is a "must trade" to me. His salary isn't bad per se but he's not going to be here by the time the Knicks are "really good", he's 32 and an average-ish player who is now out of position.
yeah i mean i dont hate those deals....  
Italianju : 11/8/2017 9:47 am : link
and most of this doesnt matter since there arent a bunch of superstar FA's this year that the knicks are going to be in on. They are probably still a year or two away from being a real FA destination again (unless KP can play like this for 82 games).
RE: The Noah...  
Jay on the Island : 11/8/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13681758 Italianju said:
Quote:
deal is such a killer for us. If you took that off the books then the knicks might have a shot at adding a solid player this offseason. I can live with the THJR deal since he is young and producing. ANd i dont love the Lee or Thomas deals, but they are reasonable. Stupid Noah.

I think the Knicks could trade Lee and Willy in return for a solid 3. I wanted to trade Kanter earlier but he seems to work well with KP. I would like to see them extend O'Quinn for 3 years 25 million if that gets it done.
RE: Lee  
Jay on the Island : 11/8/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13681767 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a "must trade" to me. His salary isn't bad per se but he's not going to be here by the time the Knicks are "really good", he's 32 and an average-ish player who is now out of position.

Absolutely. They need to trade him soon while he still has some value. They need to get a legitimate 3 so that TH can go back to his more natural position.
RE: yeah i mean i dont hate those deals....  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13681769 Italianju said:
Quote:
and most of this doesnt matter since there arent a bunch of superstar FA's this year that the knicks are going to be in on. They are probably still a year or two away from being a real FA destination again (unless KP can play like this for 82 games).


players are starting to take notice, paul tweeted yesterday: porzingis sheesh..

it is weird to have a player, young player that other players are noticing
RE: RE: Lee  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13681774 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
They need to get a legitimate 3 so that TH can go back to his more natural position.


The bench?
agree on Lee  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 10:15 am : link
Hopefully they can find a home for him. It's not an awful contract, but it's not cheap either (2/25 left after this season). He could help just about any contender.
trade chips come Feb  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 10:22 am : link
Definitely Lee.

Likely KOQ.

Maybe McDermott.

Not bad.
RE: trade chips come Feb  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13681836 Pep22 said:
Quote:
Definitely Lee.

Likely KOQ.

Maybe McDermott.

Not bad.


i am not trading either mcdermott or oquinn
People are being way too hard on THJ.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2017 10:35 am : link
I'm generally positive about what I've seen from him thus far. Makes no sense to get hung up on his contract at this point. My lone criticism of him is he needs to corral his tendency to heat check after he makes a shot.
Here is the KOQ context  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 10:36 am : link
He has an opt out after the season, so if you plan on budgeting ~8mm per for him, then okay (means a Willy trade).

But if not, he's a great trade chip to a contender and the way he's playing he could yield something like Patrick McCaw, DJ Wilson etc. if those teams have a need for a very good rotational big.

I'd like to keep DMcD  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 10:38 am : link
too but you never know when an opportunity may present itself to get a young asset via trade especially given that he's a RFA after this season and that shooting is at all time premium. He could be in demand come Feb
I've been expecting them to move  
Phil in LA : 11/8/2017 10:39 am : link
Lee since last season ended. Was thinking they should trade KOQ, but he may be too valuable.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:39 am : link
argue if Willy doesn't see significant playing time at all this year it's safe to suggest the Knicks don't think very much of him going forward. He's not 19 years old, if we are post deadline and he's still not playing I think it represents they have soured on him.
Lee  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:40 am : link
10.4 PER, 0.52 WS/48. If you get a solid offer you move him. He's not great, he's not cheap and he's out of position.
RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13681870 Pep22 said:
Quote:
too but you never know when an opportunity may present itself to get a young asset via trade especially given that he's a RFA after this season and that shooting is at all time premium. He could be in demand come Feb


isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn
RE: RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13681886 nygiants16 said:
Quote:



isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn


Problem is you don't know what the "right price" is until it's too late to get something for them.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:50 am : link
love to be able to trust Jabari Parker (it's been suggested they may move him once he gets healthy). But he's the kind of guy we get giddy about and then he tears his ACL for the third time.
RE: RE: RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13681891 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681886 nygiants16 said:


Quote:





isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn



Problem is you don't know what the "right price" is until it's too late to get something for them.


but if this team is a playoff team (still to early to tell) you are not going to be trading off pkayers at the deadline, just not going to happen sends the wrong message to the players
RE: I'd  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13681894 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
love to be able to trust Jabari Parker (it's been suggested they may move him once he gets healthy). But he's the kind of guy we get giddy about and then he tears his ACL for the third time.


willy for jabari..
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd like to keep DMcD  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13681900 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681891 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 13681886 nygiants16 said:


Quote:





isnt mcdermott a young asset?

granted i am not paying him 15 million a year, but for the right price i am keeping him and oquinn



Problem is you don't know what the "right price" is until it's too late to get something for them.



but if this team is a playoff team (still to early to tell) you are not going to be trading off pkayers at the deadline, just not going to happen sends the wrong message to the players

there's a difference between playoff team and contender. They're not contending anytime soon so if selling off pieces makes the most sense then you do it. In the east, 35 wins might make you a "playoff team". That doesn't mean you turn down opportunities to clear redundant players and cap space and/or acquire young assets.
enzo i am not talking about a guy like lee  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 11:06 am : link
i am more talking about oquinn and mcdermott..

RE: RE: I'd  
Jon in NYC : 11/8/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13681901 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681894 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


love to be able to trust Jabari Parker (it's been suggested they may move him once he gets healthy). But he's the kind of guy we get giddy about and then he tears his ACL for the third time.



willy for jabari..


I would support this. Especially if we could package Lee as well. Jabari when healthy was balling out.
Jabari is immensely talented  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 11:22 am : link
But he's frustrating because he refuses to use his size. Guy wants to play like he's a 6'4" shooting guard.
RE: enzo i am not talking about a guy like lee  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13681929 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i am more talking about oquinn and mcdermott..

if the asset coming back is a good one then you seriously think about it. Our asset pile is pretty weak. If a star player came available - we don't have much to offer besides Wily...unless you want to start dealing off future first rounders, which nobody wants.
Lee and Kanter (expiring)  
Dave on the UWS : 11/8/2017 11:27 am : link
are the two logical trade chips. I think Perry/Mills can see a path towards moving forward, how the roster "should" look with KP carrying the freight. Guys like KOQ and McDermott are good rotation players. The 3rd big time guy to put with KP and Frank has to be a SF (money is already tied up with Hardaway at SG). If the team moves forward using the draft to build roster depth and attracting a top notch SF in free agency might be the way to go if this team makes more strides this year than anticipated. We all thought tank was the way to go. Now it doesn't appear (happily) to be the case. Perry did a good job with the two pieces (and a draft choice) he got for Melo.
RE: RE: trade chips come Feb  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13681840 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13681836 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Definitely Lee.

Likely KOQ.

Maybe McDermott.

Not bad.



i am not trading either mcdermott or oquinn


Agreed, these are quality role players on a good team. The KNicks have the bones to be that team. They need their young players to continue to get better and they need to add a little talent, but I'm not trading any of those guys at this point. Obviously the season can turn quickly and that thought can change, but as of now, no way.
I'm seeing it the same way as a lot of others...  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 11:39 am : link
McDermott has been a pleasant surprise - I hope he's found a home here. Among the many problems with the Knicks in recent years has been a dearth of lights-out shooters who can space the floor. McBuckets and, hopefully, Dotson, can be real weapons going forward. As for O'Quinn, he's clearly earned the minutes. I was among those going crazy about Willy's role, but you gotta give credit to KOQ.

As of right now I see KOQ and McBuckets as future pieces, and Kanter and Lee as trade bait.
Why in the world would you trade Kanter??  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:42 am : link
He's a perfect compliment to KP and he's showing that with a bigger role and more minutes, he can be a very good starting center. He's only 25 years old and his defense is getting better. At this point in time, I'm not moving him. Obviously, if the season turns for the worst, that could change.
Kanter is playing like a man obsessed  
Canton : 11/8/2017 11:43 am : link
Obviously he likes it here in NY and doesn't want to lose the opportunity given to him, with a starting role. I definitely see him not opting out.

And no way do we trade him atm. He helps KP's game immensely. He cleans up. Everyone rags on his defense but he is trying. As we all know, want-to and effort hides many warts one has athletically, on defense. And he's showing that effort in spades. (Also helps having a QB like Jack putting him in the right spots)

I don't want to see him go, I love his game. His rebounding (especially on the offensive side) gets us many second chance buckets. The chemistry we have right now is cause everyone is doing their part.

That's why I'm not looking forward to Noah's return. I don't want him to upset that balance. That fine line between winning and losing.
Hornacek has done a superb job.  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:45 am : link
I do not see Noah getting minutes other than the minutes that Willy gets which is almost nothing. He cannot justify giving Noah any of Kanters or KOQ's minutes.
it is not even the shooting with mcdermott  
nygiants16 : 11/8/2017 11:45 am : link
it is the cutting and finishing at the rim, no idea he was that athletic...

maybe the knicks were just what he needed
I agree  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 11:50 am : link
EK isn't opting out b/c he's unlikely to get a big pay day given the kind of player he is and the way the league is headed. I also think he loves NY.
McDermott could be a starter.  
manh george : 11/8/2017 11:57 am : link
His teammates love him, and say that he has been playing lights out in practice. That either provides an opportunity to trade Lee, or to have him back up both the 2 and 3.

Quote:
“Dougie McBuckets,” Kyle O’Quinn bellowed.

“That’s what he do,” Tim Hardaway Jr. added. “He gets buckets since he was born.”

Doug McDermott wasn’t just a fan favorite Tuesday night. He was also the toast of the Knicks’ locker room after he produced his best performance in blue and orange, scoring 20 points on just eight field-goal attempts and keying a come-from-behind 118-113 victory over the Hornets at the Garden on Tuesday night.


He's long for a 3, shoots spectacularly, moves without the ball, and plays pretty good defense. In fact, crazy as this may sound, right now, I think he is more valuable overall, all by himself, than Melo. His shooting percentage is spectacularly higher, and he isn't nearly as likely to get injured.
On that latter note...  
manh george : 11/8/2017 12:05 pm : link
Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.
Maybe "trade bait" was a little harsh for Kanter.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2017 12:05 pm : link
I'm just not completely sold on him being a part of things long-term. So far so good though.
At this point,  
Keith : 11/8/2017 12:11 pm : link
only players I'd trade(that would actually have a market) are Lee and Willy. I wouldn't trade them just to trade them though.
RE: Hornacek has done a superb job.  
batman11 : 11/8/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13682011 Keith said:
Quote:
I do not see Noah getting minutes other than the minutes that Willy gets which is almost nothing. He cannot justify giving Noah any of Kanters or KOQ's minutes.


I really, really hope Hornacek doesn't mess up the chemistry they have going right now to get Noah minutes.
..  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 12:54 pm : link
Am I the only one who didn’t realize Tyreke Evans has been beastly this season?
Keep  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 12:55 pm : link
KOQ. Do it.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: On that latter note...  
Enzo : 11/8/2017 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13682047 manh george said:
Quote:
Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.

I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.
RE: Lee  
Earl the goat : 11/8/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13681767 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a "must trade" to me. His salary isn't bad per se but he's not going to be here by the time the Knicks are "really good", he's 32 and an average-ish player who is now out of position.


I said last night. McDermott should be getting Lee’s minutes and should be starting small forward
I  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 1:04 pm : link
totally get wanting to keep most of these guys but Courtney Lee (no knock on him) 100% should be moved with a solid offer at the deadline. A more extended look at McBuckets, Dotson, moving salary. Not shitting on the guy at all but I don’t see any reason to keep him (beyond the obvious getting bad offers for him).
Nice article on KP's sudden transformation into a true superstar  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2017 1:22 pm : link
This stood out to me:

Quote:
Then realize that, in terms of straight up points per possession, Porzingis is the 7th most effective post player in the damn league through 9 games. You could even construct an argument that he’s been THE most effective post player in the league so far. Only Joel Embiid has higher volume with comparible efficiency, but our lord and savior is turning the ball over on only 6.6% of his post ups. Meanwhile, Embiid’s post ups result in turnovers nearly 22% of the time.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: On that latter note...  
Pep22 : 11/8/2017 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13682141 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13682047 manh george said:


Quote:


Melo's PER according to ESPN is 16.98, and McDermott's is not far behind at 14.97. Only McDermott's will get better, and Melo simply get older. Plus, McDermott is a natural 3, and Melo is a tweener with disadvantages at both the 3 and 4. Can't guard 3's, and is a rebounding hindrance at the 4--and old.


I like McDermott but let's not get crazy. He's not much of a rebounder or passer - and he rarely gets to the line. I think he might get better, but there are some very real weaknesses in his game.


Breaking news: Melo is neither a good rebounder, nor willing passer or defender, and subpar effort and athleticism makes him a no-show in the transition game. NYK well just to unload him, but to get two productive players + a pick was extraordinary.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner