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Most unlikable group top to bottom

Painless62 : 11/8/2017 9:33 am
I have been a fan since 1970. From the ownership to the GM to the coach and lastly the players, this is the most unlikable collection of folks I can remember. Sure , there are a few that seem good like Eli and Snacks. I know hate is a strong word, but I sort of hate this team. I also can't stand the philosophy of skill players before lineman and LB's. The opposite of not only what I believe to be correct, but what I see successfully born out every Sunday in the NFL ( look at teams like the Eagles and even the Jags ). My worst fear is that there will be no major changes or half ass ones. You want a blueprint for always being relevant? Look at the Steelers. Very seldom are they non competitive and they certainly have won their share of championships.
For me it starts with  
The_Boss : 11/8/2017 9:42 am : link
the arrogance and incompetence of Jerry Reese and the drama that always surrounds Beckham. Add in a lot of underperforming players, guys who flat out suck (take your pick along the OL), and players who refuse to stand for the anthem (Vernon) and you have a "perfect storm" of unlikability.
Yeah..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/8/2017 9:43 am : link
and when the Steelers win, their jackasses become so much more likable.

I'd love to see giant fans take if McAdoo tries to trip an opponent this week. I bet will just talk about his competitive fire!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/8/2017 9:44 am : link
Is there a correlation between winning and fan appreciation, and losing and dislike?

Beckham is a lightning rod for fans... especially for fans of other teams. Oddly, so is Manning (always seemed odd to me that fans of other teams "hate" him).

But I don't see a lot of other "problem" players... DRC is a bit of an oddball but is every team seems to have them.
OBJ makes Desean Jackson seem like Jerry Rice  
gtt350 : 11/8/2017 9:56 am : link
that takes some doing
The hardcore fans that you never hear from any other time  
jcn56 : 11/8/2017 9:59 am : link
pop up to let you know how unlikable the team is. Good to know.

Was last year's team similarly unlikable with almost entirely the same roster?
RE: The hardcore fans that you never hear from any other time  
The_Boss : 11/8/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13681786 jcn56 said:
Quote:
pop up to let you know how unlikable the team is. Good to know.

Was last year's team similarly unlikable with almost entirely the same roster?


To me? Yes. Because I was astute to know exactly what the team was, as per my norm.
Not much to argue with there.  
old man : 11/8/2017 10:04 am : link
They really haven't had a team identity or philosophy in about 10 years. Just BPA that were generally square pegs for round holes when they drafted.
And you were spot on on the skill player vs OL. OL...where the
O plays begin .
Rudder-less organization.
Steelers  
Painless62 : 11/8/2017 10:06 am : link
I'm talking about a broad philosophy on how to construct a team. I understand Big Ben is a douche. Tomlin might be a tool. However, top to bottom they have far more solid and probably likable players than we have now or have had in years. I'm not opposed to having less than perfect people on my football team, depending on what they have done to be "bad". Obviously wife beating etc is a no go. Yes, I know Ben is a rapist, but he won't be there forever. I do want my team to be a consistent winner. I would swap out the Giants organization and players top to bottom with the Steelers right now. Would you? Remember, that includes their GM.
RE: Not much to argue with there.  
jcn56 : 11/8/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13681797 old man said:
Quote:
They really haven't had a team identity or philosophy in about 10 years. Just BPA that were generally square pegs for round holes when they drafted.
And you were spot on on the skill player vs OL. OL...where the
O plays begin .
Rudder-less organization.


So wait - in the span of the last decade, they never had an identity?

The team that won two titles - built around Gilbride's vertical offense an the 4 Aces defense has no identity at all?

The one that was annihilating team after team in 2008 before Plax shot himself was absent a plan?

Shit - even last season's team - built around a tough defense with a rearchitected defensive line and strong secondary - lacked an identity?

Do you people get NFL games in whatever world you're living on?
Actually yes  
Painless62 : 11/8/2017 10:18 am : link
Also, last years team was unlikable. You liked the inability to run, the same predictable offensive formation and the fact that a whole position group acted like they won the Super Bowl just because they made the playoffs? Like Miami Beach wouldn't be there 4 weeks later? Then to follow that trip up with key drops but somehow think we have great receivers including one who is so great that he is worth something like 15% of our salary cap? Or more? Like if he is not on the team fans aren't going to watch? Please. Again, I have nothing against fun, individuality or whatever, as long as it doesn't interfere with winning. So in conclusion, last years team was nothing to love.
When it comes to ownership  
superspynyg : 11/8/2017 10:18 am : link
This is just another example of the sons (or children) not as as good as the fathers. Other examples are the Lakers ( Buss children) are ruining that organization, Hal Steinbrenner is not even close as the Great George was.
2 points ...  
Spider56 : 11/8/2017 10:19 am : link
1. With more than 60 plus spoiled milenials on a roster, coaches today need to be masters in psychology to pull everyone together for the common cause ... and some discipline (e.g. Fournette's suspension in Jax) and weeding out is necessary ... Good coaches know how to do this and do it quickly. Frankly, I think OBJ and Eli Apple are 2 spoiled brats who need a good kick in the ass to get straightened out.

2. As for identity ... Mara has clearly said multiple times that you win on the LOS and he knows winning football needs to be physical. Very simply, his GM has failed to get good players, the game plans are piss poor and execution has been non existent. It's time to start over.
Where's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/8/2017 10:22 am : link
Greg to give the very appropriate response about the boat trip??
Boats  
Painless62 : 11/8/2017 10:32 am : link
BTW, I love boats. I own 1 by myself and 1 with a few partners. Boat trips are fun. Fishing is fun. Girls half naked are fun. However, if I am busy at work, have meetings or whatever, the boats stay in port. There is always next week. I went to med school in Miami. I golfed , fished and had a great time. When I had tests coming up or something important to do, I studied. I knew the fun would be there after I took care of business. Those rules are not any different for millennials. There are plenty millennials who get it.I totally agree there was lack of leadership from the coach. Again going along with my thesis.
I'd think somebody..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/8/2017 10:39 am : link
smart enough to go to med school might realize that the boat trip wasn't even an out of the ordinary thing.

The Giants D had what was reported to be an even bigger bash, but they did it in NYC.

Even last year, both the Falcons and Cowboys had blowout team parties the week of the Wild Card games. In 2015, the Panthers had a group of guys go to the beach during the playoffs. It isn't just common it happens every year.

You're just upset at the optics of it and the subsequent loss. Let me guess, the WR's practicing without their shirts on was a factor too?
RE: ...  
djstat : 11/8/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13681759 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Is there a correlation between winning and fan appreciation, and losing and dislike?

Beckham is a lightning rod for fans... especially for fans of other teams. Oddly, so is Manning (always seemed odd to me that fans of other teams "hate" him).

But I don't see a lot of other "problem" players... DRC is a bit of an oddball but is every team seems to have them.
People hate Manning because of how he "forced" his way out of San Diego. Stuff like that sticks with people and gives them reason to hate.

RE: ...  
Racer : 11/8/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13681759 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
(always seemed odd to me that fans of other teams "hate" him).

It surprises, you, Eric? Pat Kirwan always said with regard to Eli and others "don't let the guy in the production truck determine what you think of a player because of what he decides to put on TV and when".

That, the SD refusal and all the interceptions (without understanding his lack of fear in the face of tight windows, etc.) are way too much for the small-minded to overcome, and you know it.
RE: OBJ makes Desean Jackson seem like Jerry Rice  
djstat : 11/8/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13681783 gtt350 said:
Quote:
that takes some doing
Probably because Jackson has not been a relevant player for three years.
RE: Boats  
therealmf : 11/8/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13681859 Painless62 said:
Quote:
BTW, I love boats. I own 1 by myself and 1 with a few partners. Boat trips are fun. Fishing is fun. Girls half naked are fun. However, if I am busy at work, have meetings or whatever, the boats stay in port. There is always next week. I went to med school in Miami. I golfed , fished and had a great time. When I had tests coming up or something important to do, I studied. I knew the fun would be there after I took care of business. Those rules are not any different for millennials. There are plenty millennials who get it.I totally agree there was lack of leadership from the coach. Again going along with my thesis.

You do realize that it was his time off and he went with his coaches permission so he had no business at that time. Other players on the Giants and on other teams also went on trips. The loss sucked, but to say it was because of the boat trip is misguided. If it was true no team would never give their players a day off, either in the post season or the regular season.

RE: ...  
jvm52106 : 11/8/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13681759 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Is there a correlation between winning and fan appreciation, and losing and dislike?

Beckham is a lightning rod for fans... especially for fans of other teams. Oddly, so is Manning (always seemed odd to me that fans of other teams "hate" him).

But I don't see a lot of other "problem" players... DRC is a bit of an oddball but is every team seems to have them.


Its hard to say I can really rally around my team like I did in the past (for 40 plus years). Maybe it is age and other things in life or over saturation of football but many of the Giants players right now are kind of MEH to me.. The Oline has nothing that makes me feel like they will get better. They seem pretty clueless and toothless (physicality) to me. We have a LT who is a mess and though he has played better it only seems like things are really moving the other way because of how bad they started.

The dfeense, no real dominant game changer, which the Giants have had a lot even during the lean years. The team just doesn't scream Giants right now. The coach is so unlikable it is hard to give him a pass on anything...

For once change needs to happen even if it is just for change sake...

RE: I'd think somebody..  
jvm52106 : 11/8/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13681872 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
smart enough to go to med school might realize that the boat trip wasn't even an out of the ordinary thing.

The Giants D had what was reported to be an even bigger bash, but they did it in NYC.

Even last year, both the Falcons and Cowboys had blowout team parties the week of the Wild Card games. In 2015, the Panthers had a group of guys go to the beach during the playoffs. It isn't just common it happens every year.

You're just upset at the optics of it and the subsequent loss. Let me guess, the WR's practicing without their shirts on was a factor too?


I guess I am more of a do that shit you better fucking perform. You don't, then you don't do that shit... People make excuses to not hold others accountable. If you do crap like that, put it all out there for people to see and then lay an egg on National TV for all to see, then you are not capable of doing such things. EARN Respect don't demand it. Earn the right to leeway on choices by doing your job the way you are expected to!
I guess we'd all like to think  
Frank in Silver Spring : 11/8/2017 11:10 am : link
that the ny on the helmet means something emotionally to the current roster. I'm a 50+ year fan and I too don't find this group all that likeable. But maybe if they were 3 and 4 I'd have a different feel toward them.

One other thing to consider is that years ago, even the LT era, there wasn't the saturation of visual analysis that there is now. Eli Apple seems pretty darn horrible, but I'm betting there were examples of similar plays (hopefully not as egregious, obviously) from Pete Athas, Spider and maybe even Mark Haynes and the like.
RE: I'd think somebody..  
rocco8112 : 11/8/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13681872 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
smart enough to go to med school might realize that the boat trip wasn't even an out of the ordinary thing.

The Giants D had what was reported to be an even bigger bash, but they did it in NYC.

Even last year, both the Falcons and Cowboys had blowout team parties the week of the Wild Card games. In 2015, the Panthers had a group of guys go to the beach during the playoffs. It isn't just common it happens every year.

You're just upset at the optics of it and the subsequent loss. Let me guess, the WR's practicing without their shirts on was a factor too?



The WR'S shit the bed in Green Bay. Some critical drops cost the team TD'S and maybe things would have worked out differently if they spent less time partying and acting like idiots before the game.

Everyone is quick to dismiss it, but the Giants have won once since that failure and this past week elements of the team gave up and put play on film that would have you benched in High School.

It is not just talent, it is team culture and identity too. All players pulling together as one. The 2007 and 2011 teams were
greater than the sum of their individual parts. This team is worse than their individual parts should be. The Giants are a league laughingstock and one of the worst teams in the NFL. Bottom Feeders.

Part is talent and how this GM cannot, or will not,build a physical football team from the lines out as the OP said. What has brought us to rock bottom though, is the culture has soured all the way. This HC is probably a good man and if he wants he can come over my house for dinner. But, he is fucking done as a HC and he is a failure. Some early signs were the build up and poor performance in the playoff game last year. Also, the since he became head coach the Giants offense has collapsed after a decade of being on the top echelon of the NFL on that side of the ball. Biggest change was promoting a coach who clearly has no clue. He was brought in to keep stability on offense, that is the saddest thing of all.

This whole thing needs to be rebuilt. Unless you like watching one of the worst teams in a mediocre league.

Keep in mind, there are eight games to go. This will get worse.
RE: Steelers  
DonQuixote : 11/8/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13681803 Painless62 said:
Quote:
I'm talking about a broad philosophy on how to construct a team. I understand Big Ben is a douche. Tomlin might be a tool. However, top to bottom they have far more solid and probably likable players than we have now or have had in years. I'm not opposed to having less than perfect people on my football team, depending on what they have done to be "bad". Obviously wife beating etc is a no go. Yes, I know Ben is a rapist, but he won't be there forever. I do want my team to be a consistent winner. I would swap out the Giants organization and players top to bottom with the Steelers right now. Would you? Remember, that includes their GM.


You did just say the Steelers are more likeable and that their franchise QB is a rapist. Just checking...

I respect the Steelers for consistently tough football, but the roster is not likeable. Any team with a rapist as a franchise icon gets zero respect from me on the likability front.
If the giants were 7-1  
gmenatlarge : 11/8/2017 11:14 am : link
instead of 1-7 I don't think we'd be hearing this happy horseshit of how "unlikeable" they are...
not only do the Steelers have  
bluepepper : 11/8/2017 12:00 pm : link
Big Ben and his problems but the head coach once interfered with a play on the field. And one of their assistant coaches came off the sidelines to stir the pot in a playoff game. Imagine Francesa and the rest of the NY media if the Giants were pulling crap like that.

This team is pretty talented when healthy  
Rjanyg : 11/8/2017 12:02 pm : link
But let's look at the GM's philosophy and where are team is at right now.

Reese loves investing in these positions: DE, CB, WR, CB, OT, QB. In fact, if you go look at the breakdown of the salary cap I bet you will see that about 55-60% of our cap goes to these positions: I'll name the players that are getting paid truck loads of money and you tell me if they are performing at a high level:

JPP, Vernon, Jenkins, Apple, DRC, Flowers, OBJ, Manning, Marshall, Shepard.

If those players listed, the only player that was playing at a high level and earning his paycheck was Jenkins and he missed last weeks game because of suspension. Everybody else is either hurt, on IR, our underperforming. This is the root of the problem with the 2017 NY Giants.

We need this list of players to play and play great. That is not happening.

Do I love this team? When they are healthy and playing to their ability yes.

But this team is not getting quality production from its highest paid, best players. Is that McAdoo's fault or did Reese overpay for mediocre talent?

I apologize in advance if someone has already mentioned this  
Essex : 11/8/2017 12:05 pm : link
i have not had time to read all the posts, but IIRC, last year this board had countless posts was calling last year's version a very likeable Giants team (at least until the boat episode which was absurdly overblown). I guess winning matters!!
This team is pretty talented when healthy  
Rjanyg : 11/8/2017 12:07 pm : link
But let's look at the GM's philosophy and where are team is at right now.

Reese loves investing in these positions: DE, CB, WR, CB, OT, QB. In fact, if you go look at the breakdown of the salary cap I bet you will see that about 55-60% of our cap goes to these positions: I'll name the players that are getting paid truck loads of money and you tell me if they are performing at a high level:

JPP, Vernon, Jenkins, Apple, DRC, Flowers, OBJ, Manning, Marshall, Shepard.

If those players listed, the only player that was playing at a high level and earning his paycheck was Jenkins and he missed last weeks game because of suspension. Everybody else is either hurt, on IR, our underperforming. This is the root of the problem with the 2017 NY Giants.

We need this list of players to play and play great. That is not happening.

Do I love this team? When they are healthy and playing to their ability yes.

But this team is not getting quality production from its highest paid, best players. Is that McAdoo's fault or did Reese overpay for mediocre talent?

RE: RE: OBJ makes Desean Jackson seem like Jerry Rice  
gtt350 : 11/8/2017 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13681880 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 13681783 gtt350 said:


Quote:


that takes some doing

Probably because Jackson has not been a relevant player for three years.




i should have said when he was in Philly
RE: Actually yes  
Essex : 11/8/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13681823 Painless62 said:
Quote:
Also, last years team was unlikable. You liked the inability to run, the same predictable offensive formation and the fact that a whole position group acted like they won the Super Bowl just because they made the playoffs? Like Miami Beach wouldn't be there 4 weeks later? Then to follow that trip up with key drops but somehow think we have great receivers including one who is so great that he is worth something like 15% of our salary cap? Or more? Like if he is not on the team fans aren't going to watch? Please. Again, I have nothing against fun, individuality or whatever, as long as it doesn't interfere with winning. So in conclusion, last years team was nothing to love.


I really believe that a person's opinion on the Miami trip should be posted under their handle as some sort of baseline of intelligence. It would help me weed out some posters right away. Your opinion on that trip makes this entire thread more understandable now.
could say the same  
Rory : 11/8/2017 12:12 pm : link
about most of the fans on this board who cant take the good with the bad.

bad season, it happens, get over it
RE: could say the same  
rocco8112 : 11/8/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13682058 Rory said:
Quote:
about most of the fans on this board who cant take the good with the bad.

bad season, it happens, get over it


If fans can not express frustration on a Giants message board what would be the appropriate venue?

I think it is absurd the depths to which this team has fallen and I am not even a season ticket holder putting up thousands for seats to see this cluster fuck in person.

This is not new either, this team has basically sucked since 2013 and last season was clearly a fluke and this roster was a paper tiger. I also do not discount the boat picture and idiocy before the playoff game last year as meaningless, those were clearly early signs of the football cultural rot if this team. That falls squarely on the shoulders of a coach who it should be clear to all now is not the man for the job.

He was brought in to keep the offense humming, these past two seasons the offense has been the worst in a decade and now part of the team has given up, suspensions, etc.

No Giants fan should be happy with the state of this team. They just had a fifty burger hung of them, at home, off a bye!

I agree  
YAJ2112 : 11/8/2017 1:43 pm : link
the current crop of posters on BBI is a most unlikable group top to bottom
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