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NFT: How is Ben Simmons still eligible for Rookie of the Year?

Eli2020 : 11/8/2017 9:51 am
I don't get it. He was drafted in 2016, and participated in training camp.
As long as he didn't play in a regular season game  
YAJ2112 : 11/8/2017 9:54 am : link
he's eligible.
because he didn't play?  
Csonka : 11/8/2017 9:54 am : link
how is he not a rookie?
NBA  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 9:56 am : link
ROY eligibility is about playing 1 single minute of regular season ball. If you don't (Griffin/Noel etc) you remain a rookie. Seems fair to me.
Becuse this  
Metnut : 11/8/2017 10:17 am : link
is his first year playing in nba games?
Jaylon Smith isn't considered a rookie  
Eli2020 : 11/8/2017 10:21 am : link
And he didn't even participate in training camp last year.
I actually agree with the OP  
djm : 11/8/2017 10:21 am : link
Simmons has had a couple of training camps under his belt and should not be considered a rookie. Even if he missed his entire first camp and season, he's not a rookie. At the very least he's been exposed to the NBA for a full year. He's been to practices and meetings. He shouldn't be eligible.
here's the thing  
djm : 11/8/2017 10:23 am : link
the chances of Ben playing this well if he was healthy last season aren't that high. Does anyone truly believe Simmons would have been this good if he plays last season? Even if you do, there's reason to believe otherwise.

He isn't a rookie.
RE: here's the thing  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13681837 djm said:
Quote:
the chances of Ben playing this well if he was healthy last season aren't that high. Does anyone truly believe Simmons would have been this good if he plays last season? Even if you do, there's reason to believe otherwise.

He isn't a rookie.


If that's the case then the guys coming over from Europe who play for pro-leagues shouldn't be rookies either. ACB is a higher level than NCAA.
He's going to be a great  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2017 10:25 am : link
one for a long time. If Embiid can stay healthy, the 76ers look set for the next decade plus. What's the latest on Fultz?
Very  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:28 am : link
odd stance given an MLB rookie could have appeared in MULTIPLE spring trainings before debuting and could have had 129 previous MLB AB's or 49 innings pitched, that player could have participated in 3 or 4 MLB ST's as well.
...  
26.2 : 11/8/2017 10:28 am : link
Fultz is hurt and will be reevaluated in mid Nov, so perhaps its not that bad.

Simmons would have been a stud last year too if he hadn't gotten hurt. Maybe not putting up the #'s he is now, but he would have been as good, if not better, than every other rookie last season, IMO.
DanMetroMan  
Eli2020 : 11/8/2017 10:28 am : link
That is awful logic. Those are completely different leagues. Simmons was merely sidelined.
RE: DanMetroMan  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13681851 Eli2020 said:
Quote:
That is awful logic. Those are completely different leagues. Simmons was merely sidelined.


Awful logic? The rules have long been the same. Blake Griffin was the first pick in 2009 draft, didn't play a single game and won the following seasons ROY. This is nothing new.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:33 am : link
if "training camp" is such an advantage then I hope you have an issue with MLB rookies who appear in multiple MLB ST's or have made 10 MLB starts the previous season, or have 129 ab's (that's over a month of every day AB's). THAT doesn't help said player but training camp in the NBA does?
Aaron  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:35 am : link
Judge is going to win AL ROY by a landslide, under your guidelines he should not be eligible correct?
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 10:45 am : link
following players in recent years would be stripped of the ROYS.

Judge, Seager, DeGrom, Mike Trout, Craig Kimbrel, Jeremy Hellickson (all since 2011)
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/8/2017 10:49 am : link
Did you just use the term "awful logic" when talking about the connection for ROY and baseball??

For fuck's sake, you posted this:

Quote:
Jaylon Smith isn't considered a rookie
Eli2020 : 10:21 am : link : reply
And he didn't even participate in training camp last year.


What NBA team is Jaylon Smith on?
RE: here's the thing  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/8/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13681837 djm said:
Quote:
the chances of Ben playing this well if he was healthy last season aren't that high. Does anyone truly believe Simmons would have been this good if he plays last season? Even if you do, there's reason to believe otherwise.

He isn't a rookie.

Simmons himself has said that being with the team all of last year before debuting this year was a huge advantage for him. I do think there's a case to be made that a 2nd year player is not truly a rookie even if it's his first year of action.

Separate but related - when do we start to wonder if the Sixers are intentionally running a redshirt program for rookies?
RE: RE: here's the thing  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 11:03 am : link
In comment 13681922 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13681837 djm said:


Quote:


the chances of Ben playing this well if he was healthy last season aren't that high. Does anyone truly believe Simmons would have been this good if he plays last season? Even if you do, there's reason to believe otherwise.

He isn't a rookie.


Simmons himself has said that being with the team all of last year before debuting this year was a huge advantage for him. I do think there's a case to be made that a 2nd year player is not truly a rookie even if it's his first year of action.

Separate but related - when do we start to wonder if the Sixers are intentionally running a redshirt program for rookies?


Fultz is legit injured. Go watch video of his FT shooting or the practice video where he is shooting lefty. I don't think he goes #1 overall if his shoulder issues would have been known.
DanMetroMan  
Eli2020 : 11/8/2017 11:06 am : link
I'm referring to your comparison to European and other foreign players.
Not sure I understand the angst over this.  
10 to 13 : 11/8/2017 11:18 am : link
He didn't play at all in the regular season, that's the answer to your initial question. Clearly you don't agree with that explanation but that's the answer. I'm not sure how you can really argue a guy isn't a rookie if he hasn't played a single minute in the NBA.

Comparison to different leagues don't work because the fundamental rules in qualifying are so different. Baseball in particular is not a good comparison.
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/8/2017 11:22 am : link
Rules are artificial markers. Either you set minimums or you have a strict “draft year makes you a rookie whether you play or not”.
RE: RE: here's the thing  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13681842 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13681837 djm said:


Quote:


the chances of Ben playing this well if he was healthy last season aren't that high. Does anyone truly believe Simmons would have been this good if he plays last season? Even if you do, there's reason to believe otherwise.

He isn't a rookie.



If that's the case then the guys coming over from Europe who play for pro-leagues shouldn't be rookies either. ACB is a higher level than NCAA.


It is higher than the NCAA but it's not the NBA. Simmons was drafted by the NBA last year. He's not a rookie. He's been to meetings and been exposed to coaching and other nuances that true rookies haven't been exposed to.

RE: Very  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13681849 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
odd stance given an MLB rookie could have appeared in MULTIPLE spring trainings before debuting and could have had 129 previous MLB AB's or 49 innings pitched, that player could have participated in 3 or 4 MLB ST's as well.


I don't think Aaron Judge is a rookie either.
I agree with djm.  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:31 am : link
You are a rookie the year you are drafted, whether or not you play in a game. He's had a year of NBA coaching and film work and training. He's not a rookie.
You cannot compare it to baseball  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:32 am : link
because of the minors and the fact that everyone has a different path to get to MLB. In the NBA, everyone drafted goes directly into the NBA.
let's be honest  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:36 am : link
individual awards in pro sports are bullshit anyway. NBA and MLB Rookie of the year awards just happens to be the biggest bullshit awards out there.

Simply put, guys like Simmons enjoy a HUGE advantage over true rookies. That's just a fact. I'd be curious to see how many 2nd year rookies have won this awards. Griffin, Simmons...how many times has a second year rookie won the awards? How many talented rookies got hurt only to win the award a year later?
Id vote the gold glove  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:38 am : link
as the biggest BS award.
RE: RE: RE: here's the thing  
Giantology : 11/8/2017 11:39 am : link
In comment 13681976 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13681842 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13681837 djm said:


Quote:


the chances of Ben playing this well if he was healthy last season aren't that high. Does anyone truly believe Simmons would have been this good if he plays last season? Even if you do, there's reason to believe otherwise.

He isn't a rookie.



If that's the case then the guys coming over from Europe who play for pro-leagues shouldn't be rookies either. ACB is a higher level than NCAA.



It is higher than the NCAA but it's not the NBA. Simmons was drafted by the NBA last year. He's not a rookie. He's been to meetings and been exposed to coaching and other nuances that true rookies haven't been exposed to.


So what, as soon as you've been in camp or meetings you are no longer a rookie? Give me a break.
it would be like  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:39 am : link
giving me a job at a school as a teacher but I won't teach that first year. I have never studied to be a teacher. Have no experience at all. All I am going to do is sit in the classroom and watch other teachers work. Go to all the meetings. Get all the on the job training without actually teaching at all. Then, one year later bring in someone who is around the same age as me, fresh out of college with NO experience in the classroom. Now ask both me and the newbie to teach a class. Guess who is going to struggle more that first semester or so.
it's a slam dunk case  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:41 am : link
...if you don't think a guy that has been exposed to the sport for a full year doesn't have a HUGE advantage over a true rookie I don't know what else to say other than you're being stubborn.
even if it's a slight advantage (it's more than slight)  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:42 am : link
it's an advantage nonetheless.

Again, I don't really care. These awards are crap anyway. The only award I truly care about is team awards and maybe finals MVP.
RE: it's a slam dunk case  
Keith : 11/8/2017 11:43 am : link
In comment 13682001 djm said:
Quote:
...if you don't think a guy that has been exposed to the sport for a full year doesn't have a HUGE advantage over a true rookie I don't know what else to say other than you're being stubborn.


No doubt. Just watching how an NBA season unfolds is priceless. Huge leg up for Simmons.
i'd be curious  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:55 am : link
to see how many true rookies, let's say top 15 in the draft who then missed that first year due to injury went on to either win the award in year two or were highly successful that second year. I'd venture the percentage of "successful" second year rookies is greater than the percentage of successful first year rookies. Just a guess though.
forget top 15  
djm : 11/8/2017 11:57 am : link
let's say any rookie that was considered a rookie in year 2. Would be interesting to see how many enjoyed good 2nd seasons. Maybe the number isn't that high and I am mistaken. Off the top of my head there are at 3 of these guys that won the award in their 2nd rookie year over the last 15 seasons.
RE: forget top 15  
Mad Mike : 11/8/2017 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13682035 djm said:
Quote:
let's say any rookie that was considered a rookie in year 2. Would be interesting to see how many enjoyed good 2nd seasons. Maybe the number isn't that high and I am mistaken. Off the top of my head there are at 3 of these guys that won the award in their 2nd rookie year over the last 15 seasons.

I don't know who you're thinking of, but Griffin is the only guy in that time who won ROY a year after his draft year.
I thought Noel did too  
djm : 11/8/2017 12:07 pm : link
and penciled Simmons in as the winner this season. That's how I got to 3.
Noel didn't win  
Mad Mike : 11/8/2017 12:11 pm : link
*
RE: Id vote the gold glove  
djm : 11/8/2017 3:53 pm : link
In comment 13681990 Keith said:
Quote:
as the biggest BS award.


Raphael Palmero says HI! He also says he never took PEDs. Swears by it actually lol.
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