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If Darnold opts to stay in school (question)

joeinpa : 11/9/2017 9:33 am
There s been speculation that if Browns have first pick the kid would stay in school, Cowherd.

In this scenerio Browns get Rosen and Giants miss out on the quarterback they might want.

What are the options they might pursue to let the Darnold camp know he is their guy and what is the time table to do so.

This is assuming Giants want one if these two guys.
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GM  
Painless62 : 11/9/2017 10:01 am : link
This discussion is excellent. The problem is that the correct course might be to trade down. Your awesome current GM doesn't realize that it is allowed. Unless we get what we perceive to be a can't miss franchise QB, we need extra picks to bring in talent all over the board. OH, please please please get us a smart shrewd GM.
Trade ups  
pjcas18 : 11/9/2017 10:04 am : link
generally happen for QB's or stud WR's, right? excluding the Ricky Williams debacle.

other than Ricky Williams the biggest draft day moves were all for QB's or WR's.


so in the scenario outlined by many of you where the Giants trade down and accumulate a plethora of picks including 1st round picks in future years, for who?

If there is no QB worth and I have read this is a weak WR draft who is being traded up for? Barkley?

I know it's early, but still worth discussing in these fictional scenarios.

Also, around this time 10 years ago Andre Woodson was a projected 1st round pick. Giants wound up taking him in the 6th.

So, I agree with the poster who said post-season games, post-season workouts, and combine/interviews mean more than a lot of the mock drafts in early November.

Agree on Big 12 QB's  
PatersonPlank : 11/9/2017 10:09 am : link
the defenses are terrible.

We have a lot of holes. I'd agree with trading down and getting more premium picks. Eli isn't going anywhere soon, and we do need to see what we have in Webb. Plus the college "franchise" guys don't look good so far. We can rebuild the team a little, and if Webb doesn't look like the real deal then draft a QB next year. I'm sure there will be more "franchise" guys next year too. The last few QB drafts have been:

2017 - Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, Mahommes, Webb, even the SF starter
2016 - Goff, Wentz, Hackenberg, Dac, Brisset, Paxton Lynch
2015 - Winston, Mariotta, Petty
2014 - Bortles, Derek Carr, Garrapalo

So there are always new "franchise" guys coming. We have lots of holes to fill in the starting line-up.
RE: I would..  
superspynyg : 11/9/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13683267 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
love the giants to use leverage of where they will pick to trade down and get multiple picks, including an extra #1 in 2019.

They can then select a QB or not, but they will have a lot of options.

The bigger things is that there better be a new guy making the pick and a new guy coaching it.


I agree. I would want Rosen (if he falls and if he does well in the pre draft workouts) or Barkley. If I cant get either of those then trade back to get more picks next year.
RE: Its just too early  
Jay in Toronto : 11/9/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13683263 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
to know who the actual top prospects will be. Post season workouts and interviews are huge for QBs.


Great point.

How many did they have with Webb and by whom?
Give me Lamar in that scenario  
jeff57 : 11/9/2017 10:23 am : link
I actually think the Browns will take Jackson.
So  
BigBlueShock : 11/9/2017 10:24 am : link
Are you comparing QBs that could go top 5 with a 3rd rounder? You don't think they will work out and interview potential top 5 guys because they didn't with Webb?
It's a little early to proclaim Darnold  
barens : 11/9/2017 10:25 am : link
will stay in school. You never now until it's official.

My hope would be for the Giants to bring in some offensive linemen through free agency, and if Rosen or Darnold are available, pull the trigger.

And after that, trade back into the first round to draft Ronald Jones, running back from USC, though when all is said and done, i feel like this guy is going to be competing with Barkley to be the first running back taken next year.
The team still has Webb  
Beer Man : 11/9/2017 10:26 am : link
They go on to pickup as many other pieces as possible (I hope to see help at OL, LB, RB)
Rosen or Darnold  
Beer Man : 11/9/2017 10:28 am : link
are the only two QBs I see the Giants grabbing in the 1st. Webb probably compares well to the others
I don't want Darnold  
Bramton1 : 11/9/2017 10:38 am : link
I have not been impressed AT ALL this year from him.
If...school,  
old man : 11/9/2017 11:02 am : link
and he should.
RE: I don't want Darnold  
Jay on the Island : 11/9/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13683393 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
I have not been impressed AT ALL this year from him.

Me neither. If they are going to use a 1st round pick on a QB i hope it's either Rosen or Mayfield after a trade down.
RE: RE: I would..  
old man : 11/9/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13683279 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13683267 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


love the giants to use leverage of where they will pick to trade down and get multiple picks, including an extra #1 in 2019.

They can then select a QB or not, but they will have a lot of options.

The bigger things is that there better be a new guy making the pick and a new guy coaching it.


My ideal scenario would be for the Giants to trade all the way down to the 10-12 range where they could get a few picks plus still have the opportunity to take Baker Mayfield.


10-12 would bring a big haul....only thing is, IMO, as much as we may need Eli's replacement if it is not Webb...we need good young blood at OL, could lose 4( and 2 of those I don't want back), since we can't buy multiple non Giant FAs , thanks YKW,...otherwise our young replacement QB will be running more than our backs.
Trading down is a tricky business if you are going DOWN  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/9/2017 11:31 am : link
and hoping for a QB to be there.

If they end up with a top 3 pick, and they have conviction on a player, just take the guy. With SF trading for Jimmy G, unless THEY trade down, the Giants will have a shot at everyone outside of who CLE takes. I want that option, even though I get the need for more picks.
He's getting bad advice  
KWALL2 : 11/9/2017 11:37 am : link
Nobody is taking him with the first pick.
RE: Why would the Giants draft a qb and let him sit behind Eli for the  
ajr2456 : 11/9/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13683252 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
next 3 or 4 years? This is their opportunity to rebuild their oline.


There's a better chance Eli is gone after the last 8 games then here for another 3-4 years
RE: Why would the Giants draft a qb and let him sit behind Eli for the  
JonC : 11/9/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13683252 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
next 3 or 4 years? This is their opportunity to rebuild their oline.


Swing and a miss.
There's always ways to get info to a player and vice versa  
JonC : 11/9/2017 12:22 pm : link
through intermediaries. When ... it would likely be after scouting season is in full swing and moving towards the draft. A ton of work to do between now and then ...
Fatman +2  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 12:25 pm : link
.
RE: Why would the Giants draft a qb and let him sit behind Eli for the  
Pep22 : 11/9/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13683252 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
next 3 or 4 years? This is their opportunity to rebuild their oline.


3 or 4 years???? Come on dude.
RE: rebuilding the OL  
JonC : 11/9/2017 12:30 pm : link
when you force draft picks, you get Flowers.

Giants are going to look at who's available via UFA and try to rebuild there, firstly. Every year they try to address urgent holes in the roster during UFA, freeing them up for the draft.

Right now, there's no LT prospect looming large for the top 10, according the fluid draft reports. Don't force the pick, it's too vital to the FUTURE of the franchise.
RE: There's always ways to get info to a player and vice versa  
ajr2456 : 11/9/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13683609 JonC said:
Quote:
through intermediaries. When ... it would likely be after scouting season is in full swing and moving towards the draft. A ton of work to do between now and then ...


Don't the scouts that visit during the season talk with the players?
RE: RE: There's always ways to get info to a player and vice versa  
JonC : 11/9/2017 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13683624 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13683609 JonC said:


Quote:


through intermediaries. When ... it would likely be after scouting season is in full swing and moving towards the draft. A ton of work to do between now and then ...



Don't the scouts that visit during the season talk with the players?


Yep, and others.
What about Web ...  
Blue Angel : 11/9/2017 12:39 pm : link
He might be better than ALL the Quarter Backs coming out this year.
RE: What about Web ...  
barens : 11/9/2017 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13683636 Blue Angel said:
Quote:
He might be better than ALL the Quarter Backs coming out this year.


No, he's not. Granted, that's my opinion, but I don't see starting material with Webb. I don't in college, and I don't now.

Darold has had his ups and downs, but you can never count him out of any game, and he's proven to be quite clutch when he has to be. Plus, he's not a statue in the pocket, he's got an ability to create a little more time for himself.

I, for one, would be completely stoked if we got Darnold.
Josh Allen is who I would want in if we canít get Rosen  
Bleedblue10 : 11/9/2017 12:56 pm : link
I know the kid is having a rough season but he has NO talent around him and he himself is just oozing with potential. Big kid, can make every throw, mobile and heís get to sit behind Eli for at least a year maybe more
if the Giants don't have a shot at the QB or player they covet  
JonC : 11/9/2017 1:03 pm : link
I'd echo it would be a coup if they could trade down with a team that badly wants Barkley or other. Take the picks, an extra #1 and #2 would be a boon.
Those who  
ryanmkeane : 11/9/2017 1:03 pm : link
haven't been impressed with Darnold this year are taking the wrong approach. He's had a few bad games but the team is really not good at all this year, and he's playing with a terrible OL all season due to injuries.

This is the same QB that threw for 453 and 5 TD in the Rose Bowl a year ago. Kid has the goods, and with the right coach and system could be a star in the NFL with the tools he has.
It's true Darnold' been under siege this season  
JonC : 11/9/2017 1:09 pm : link
bad pass pro from the OL, spotty defense getting them behind, and they've really cut Darnold loose to go for broke in those situations. He's had issues protecting the football but he's got all the tools, mobile, big arm, big guts, has played big in big spots at USC.
Would be ironic  
GeoMan999 : 11/9/2017 1:25 pm : link
If this ended up like the trade where Eli refused to go the Chargers and Darnold refused to go to the Browns. And there was rumoured Giants interest with Darnold and the Browns tried to get picks from Giants. Darnold refuses to have the Browns jersey, but wears the hat....if I have that right.
Yahoo sports  
spike : 11/9/2017 1:59 pm : link
Has an article on this year of college QBs.
Qb prospects yahoo - ( New Window )
I'd be thrilled with  
ryanmkeane : 11/9/2017 2:27 pm : link
any of these 7 names regardless of whether we select in the top 5 or trade back:

Darnold
Rosen
Barkley
Brown
McGlinchey
James
Regarding forcing picks/flowers example  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 2:31 pm : link
The situation more broadly was brought about by Jerry having made opportunistic picks at other spots, the supposed skills positions, -in prior years- when arguable value and need match had been at the line. Thus forcing the force the next year's.

So, opportunitism in that regard, being a good thing, favors a trade down. So value and positional(s) can match without forcing things.

Then, add in the reduced risk garnered by having 2 or 3 rather than one.

It's not really accurate to view any pick as a stand alone event.
It's ironic  
ryanmkeane : 11/9/2017 2:34 pm : link
that Flowers is finally starting to improve at a time where the front office will most likely be out the door.
Boil it down to draft day  
JonC : 11/9/2017 2:36 pm : link
the forced pick is what matters in context here, I don't have time or interest to again spell out the preceding events that landed them in that place. Keep it simple works fine here.

Flowers has a home here  
JonC : 11/9/2017 2:39 pm : link
the arrow is pointing up and by all accounts he's putting the work in to improve. There might not be a better tackle available to NYG next offseason.
Tend to agree jonc and Pugh is a tackle  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 2:56 pm : link
Guards and Centers high then!
People always said 'you don't draft players early to play guard'  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 2:58 pm : link
But. We are were we are. Nobody can dispute that .
Spelling  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 3:06 pm : link
Where we are. Not were . damn phone.
RE: Why would the Giants draft a qb and let him sit behind Eli for the  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/9/2017 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13683252 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
next 3 or 4 years? This is their opportunity to rebuild their oline.


Omg people are delusional. :D

Eli is not going to be here 3 or 4 more years. Good grief. Even if he did, at his current rate of decline he will be a shadow of himself when his contract ends in 2 years.
The greatest danger here imho  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 3:15 pm : link
Is, rather than picking and managing to win games, without realising it; managing and picking to justify prior decisions, a strategy or a person.

Which is probably a fairly frequent source of misdirection in established groups and organisations. Not at all unique here.
I do also think that Ronald Jones is going to shoot  
barens : 11/9/2017 3:53 pm : link
up draft boards after the combine. That dude is fast, and he knows how to find the end zone. Really good year for running backs.
OG-Quenton Nelson -Notre Dame  
GeorgeAdams33 : 11/9/2017 6:01 pm : link
...should be our top pick after a trade down.
RE: OG-Quenton Nelson -Notre Dame  
BigBlueShock : 11/9/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13684093 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
...should be our top pick after a trade down.

Iím really warming up to this. Dude looks like one of the best guards to come around in a long time. If they donít love a QB, Nelson is the guy I want. As long as they are top 5, there SHOULD be some trade down opportunities from a team that needs a QB or loves Barkley. Or whatever other players rise up the boards. Which brings up that point. Itís way too early in the process at this point. Players will rise and fall, but thereís no harm in discussing it as of today, I suppose.
With regards to 'trade downs increasing risk' (no)  
idiotsavant : 11/9/2017 8:42 pm : link
They might be well served to head over to Columbia or NYU and confer with some mathematicians or statisticians.

Wheres trading down may bring a player with slightly more warts (depending on position maybe not even this) you are in fact getting two or three for one which lowers -greatly- your risk that the formerly inly player turns out to not have a useful career.


Sounds like they are conflating lack of confidence in their process with an actual risk value.
Why not Mason Rudolph?  
nyynyg : 11/10/2017 7:12 am : link
Interested to hear thoughts on him. Why is he not in the conversation?
Be careful judging a QB solely by how he looks in these games..  
EricJ : 11/10/2017 7:24 am : link
So much of whether the QB will be successful in the NFL is not as easy to see while watching on Saturday.

Just take a look at the current group of QBs who are playing today. I would bet that they look different now (On the field) than they did in their senior year in college.

My concern is the group of coaches we have right now. The pic below of Farley is us and the car is our first pick...

RE: RE: OG-Quenton Nelson -Notre Dame  
Milton : 11/10/2017 7:54 am : link
In comment 13684098 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13684093 GeorgeAdams33 said:


Quote:


...should be our top pick after a trade down.


Iím really warming up to this. Dude looks like one of the best guards to come around in a long time.
Could be the best since Chance Warmack!
RE: RE: RE: OG-Quenton Nelson -Notre Dame  
barens : 11/10/2017 8:07 am : link
In comment 13684537 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13684098 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13684093 GeorgeAdams33 said:


Quote:


...should be our top pick after a trade down.


Iím really warming up to this. Dude looks like one of the best guards to come around in a long time.

Could be the best since Chance Warmack!


Or Zack Martin..
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