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Kim Jones: "Kinda Interesting" McAdoo comments on Eli

EddieNYG : 11/10/2017 9:44 am

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I don't think mcadoo is necessarily wrong on Eli's play  
djm : 11/10/2017 1:06 pm : link
And his mechanics. But his comments will go over about as well as a fart in church.
RE: When the underlying..  
ColHowPepper : 11/10/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13684736 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
motivation to make the comments he has is because his system requires a QB like Aaron rodgers (who doesn't grow on a tree), should cause one to look harder at changing the system.
Bingo: Aaron Rodgers' QB style, almost unparalleled quickness and accuracy (most of the time) and his escapability were what the description in Eddie's 10:00 AM pounded home. Eli has was never an AR and he's only going to grow less like an AR (minus the injury).

But we all knew and know that: that is why this is on Reese, because Reese's ineptitude over the past five years in putting together an OL suited to the NYG franchise QB has crippled the offense. And, yes, the HC has to recognize that. But when your OL can't pocket protect for longer routes and patterns to develop--what choice does the offensive design have but to go quicker and shorter? A conundrum.
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 11/10/2017 1:16 pm : link
You can't preach "everyone is accountable" yet call out Eli at every turn and refuse to do the same for the abysmal Oline!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
Dan in the Springs : 11/10/2017 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13684996 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:

I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible.


Should read don't DISAGREE. I know that the offense is horrible and imo McAdoo is completely responsible for it. I am of a different opinion than you about the lack of downfield attempts, in that I think Eli could and should be taking more shots downfield than he has. He's had his guys open at times and hasn't even looked downfield on many occasions this year.
Continuity Game Plan Play calls  
Bluesbreaker : 11/10/2017 1:28 pm : link
This is one of the worst offenses I have ever seen the
sooner MacHandley goes the better . GB is horseshit without
Rogers who could make any team better and win championships
Enough of the Reese rea . Time to start a new it's amazing
how teams are able to get Collins in match up problems
on a weekly basis he is a great defender going forward
the free safety has been invisible . Watching the Collins having to turn and run with Watkins while all four DB's were going forward with Thompson guarding thin air .
We get out coached on a weekly basis . I would take Hargreaves over Apple in a heartbeat . Hargeaves is much more sounder in technique . He played OBJ pretty damn well
Clean House !
RE: When the underlying..  
WillVAB : 11/10/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13684736 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
motivation to make the comments he has is because his system requires a QB like Aaron rodgers (who doesn't grow on a tree), should cause one to look harder at changing the system.


Was just going to post something along these lines.

The GB system is trash whether its McCarthy or McAdoo. GB runs a lot of the same concepts we do and they look completely inept without Rodgers.

That system requires a mobile QB who can make big plays on broken plays and be a threat with his legs to draw the defense away from coverage
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/10/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13684982 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:

This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.

You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.

It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.


If anyone thinks some people are saying Eli played poorly Sunday because he missed ONE deep pass to Sterling Shepard, then they're delusional or didn't pay their cable bill and didn't actually see the game. He threw an abominable interception. Even on a simpler 3rd & 2 pass to Shane Vereen, he threw a pass Vereen couldn't haul in because it was off the mark. There were more plays than that Eli missed. Opportunities for "positive" plays are there and the QB has missed too many of them. Sometimes, he throws an accurate pass and Brandon Marshall or Odell Beckham dropped them. Sometimes a receiver is open and the guy everyone wanted to start (DJ Fluker) can't remember the snap count or John Jerry gets blown by as if he didn't exist and Eli has no chance. And more recently, there are people running patterns who aren't NFL players.

I think that's the frustration of the head coach. People are complaining about the offense while there are plays to be made on the field and guys simply aren't executing the fundamentals of their job. That includes the QB. I'm not absolving the coach of blame. For example, I put the first 2 weeks of the season directly on his shoulders. But I feel like EVERYONE is to blame whereas some people make excuses for Eli regardless of how he plays. As fans, if we want to have rational/honest conversations about the team, we have to be better than that.
hmmmm  
giantfan2000 : 11/10/2017 2:20 pm : link
Quote:
If anyone thinks some people are saying Eli played poorly Sunday because he missed ONE deep pass to Sterling Shepard,


I guess you missed the first series after great runs buy Darkwa, At mid field Eli getting sacked and immediately fumbling
#2 Eli fan here behind Dep  
SHO'NUFF : 11/10/2017 2:22 pm : link
not seeing what McAdoo is saying wrong.
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
JCin332 : 11/10/2017 2:34 pm : link
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


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and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.


Lmao another "list of QB's better than Eli"...

Every year there is a new one and a lot will be off by next year like the others before...
JCin332  
arniefez : 11/10/2017 2:46 pm : link
Eli is a better player than several of the guys on that list and their teams would have a better record if he was their QB.
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
ajr2456 : 11/10/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13685130 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:


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In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


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and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.



Lmao another "list of QB's better than Eli"...

Every year there is a new one and a lot will be off by next year like the others before...


Which one of those guys would you rather have a 37 year old Eli over?
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
WillVAB : 11/10/2017 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


Quote:


and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan back to his mediocre ways in 17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
Section331 : 11/10/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13685019 Dan in the Springs said:
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In comment 13684996 Dan in the Springs said:


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I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible.



Should read don't DISAGREE. I know that the offense is horrible and imo McAdoo is completely responsible for it. I am of a different opinion than you about the lack of downfield attempts, in that I think Eli could and should be taking more shots downfield than he has. He's had his guys open at times and hasn't even looked downfield on many occasions this year.


The difficult thing about evaluating QB play is that we as fans don't know where the primary reads are. There may be guys open downfield, but if Eli's primary read is open, that is where he's going to go.

The infuriating thing about McAdoo's offense if how susceptible it is to a cover 2 shell. A lot of that is personnel, but even when the Giants had weapons on the field, they still struggled v the cover 2. That tells me it's a system-wide offensive design problem.
ajr2456  
arniefez : 11/10/2017 3:34 pm : link
right now if I had to win a game Sunday? More than half of them.
McAdoo although in over his head  
mdc1 : 11/10/2017 4:27 pm : link
as an HC is now dealing with the legacy of cleaning the Augean stables of incompetence within the Giants organization. Summary, he is the scapegoat for incompetent actions and strategy above. Let's not kid ourselves. McAdoo's first mistake was to naively take the job, and secondly to participate as an agent and actor to push TC out. Now he get his reward and it was a big risk. Not paying off for McAdoo. Again experience is important in a big and political environment. Unless you have a savy experienced coach that can influence and win (Parcells and TC) forget it. McAdoo was likely throwaway anyway, we shall see.
I have felt since day one that MacAdoo was the wrong  
Jersey55 : 11/10/2017 4:39 pm : link
man for the job, bringing in a west coast offense to a team with an immobile QB was a recipe for disaster and we're seeing the results of it right now....
RE: ajr2456  
ajr2456 : 11/10/2017 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13685201 arniefez said:
Quote:
right now if I had to win a game Sunday? More than half of them.


So Eli is a top 10 QB in the league right now? That simply just isnt true.
As an Eli M. fanboy...generally...  
old man : 11/10/2017 5:20 pm : link
I have no problem with what Mc said.
QBs are the face of the franchise...get the big $$$ and the heroes in success....get the big money and are the goats in failure(usually).
Eli's skillset has always been good but not great and he has accomplished much with what hes got..his best gifts are his heart of a champion and football intelligence.
That all said his passing skills have declined...is it concentration? Something else mental? Physical? DavidCarr-itis/longterm OLsucks-itis? cause/effect of all the above? Who knows?
Eli deserves criticism ...with a qualifier statement...and got it with the 'all' play better comment.
I'm sure he hates the dump on..but knows it comes with the territory.
Would be nice though if someone else on the team/in the organization had skin thick enough to not bring others with them under the bus.
RE: I have felt since day one that MacAdoo was the wrong  
mdc1 : 11/10/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13685270 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
man for the job, bringing in a west coast offense to a team with an immobile QB was a recipe for disaster and we're seeing the results of it right now....


What is wild about your comment is very damning in that TC was largely a vertical down field strike guy with running game to keep the defense on edge. That is the variable that works against NFL defenses. You have to do those 2 things as a statistical measure to win and collect trophies. The minute that we cannot do either, we do the dumb thing and switch schemes to solve 2 and 3rd down problems after scripted run on down 1. To me it is Reese and his merrymen cover their incompetence to fix the player roles because they invested too much in the contracts of specialty players (Eli, pass rushers, secondary).
Ben obviously hasn't read Proverbs 17:28  
JohnF : 11/10/2017 5:38 pm : link
Quote:
"Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent."


Nor does he seem to know the First Rule of Holes:

MacAdoo is part of the problem  
joeinpa : 11/10/2017 5:39 pm : link
So is Eli. His lack of mobility is in stark contrast to other quarterbacks around the league who extend plays and ellavate the play of those around him.

He can t play without a clean pocket , others can.

The blinders some wear where Eli s play is concerned is not objective.

He is a good part of the problem this year.
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
ajr2456 : 11/10/2017 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


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and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan back to his mediocre ways in 17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.



You wouldnt have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
That stupid list sucks  
UConn4523 : 11/10/2017 6:31 pm : link
if you are going to caveat it with Eli being 37 than you also have to take into account what Kirk fucking Cousins will be getting to play like crap in big games.

I'd rather Eli at 37 and coming off the books in 2019 than Cousins at $25 million per year for the next 5-6 years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
WillVAB : 11/10/2017 6:31 pm : link
In comment 13685332 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


Quote:


and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan back to his mediocre ways in 17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.





You wouldnt have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli


Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.

Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now hes a stud?

Winston just isnt good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.

Id take a healthy Watson over Eli but thats the rub, he isnt healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers how can you say hes better when hes done for the year?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
Dan in the Springs : 11/10/2017 6:45 pm : link
In comment 13685189 Section331 said:
Quote:

The difficult thing about evaluating QB play is that we as fans don't know where the primary reads are. There may be guys open downfield, but if Eli's primary read is open, that is where he's going to go.

The infuriating thing about McAdoo's offense if how susceptible it is to a cover 2 shell. A lot of that is personnel, but even when the Giants had weapons on the field, they still struggled v the cover 2. That tells me it's a system-wide offensive design problem.


Agree - and it is a frustrating system that makes the primary read on 3rd and 7 a 3yd crossing route to a TE.

Even if a secondary read is coming open for a first down, Eli has shown many times this year a willingness to go with his first read and make the completion the defense is willing to give him - short of the first down.

Sometimes I think a part of the problem with the offense is that Eli reads defenses so well and knows what they are giving him pre-snap, so then he locks in and takes those things. This in turn leads to short completions and the defense dictating the play of the offense.

Combine that with a fear of turning the ball over and it's no wonder we see little/no attempts downfield.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
ajr2456 : 11/10/2017 6:47 pm : link
In comment 13685382 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13685332 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


Quote:


and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan back to his mediocre ways in 17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.





You wouldnt have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli



Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.

Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now hes a stud?

Winston just isnt good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.

Id take a healthy Watson over Eli but thats the rub, he isnt healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers how can you say hes better when hes done for the year?


Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize were talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
RE: One thing I notice about Reese and McAdoof  
KeoweeFan : 11/10/2017 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13684710 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
They both evade responsibility with doublespeak: Its all on me Im the head coach and this falls on my shoulders, but everyone is accountable.... Im the GM, its all on me but everyone is accountable.... Elis done so much and I respect him but everyone is accountable.... McAdoof and Reach are cut from the same cloth.

Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.

You comments may be very reasonable; but would you please stop with the childish name-calling. Speaking for myself, that habit turns me off from considering the validity of your opinions.
This dope would be great as upper  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/10/2017 7:01 pm : link
Management in the large too big to fail corporate world. Hes shitty at his job. Unimaginative. Full of useless sayinging. They always say everyone is accountable. Especially himself. But then usually trys to deflect blame.
Being the opposite of accountable.

And while the players are just as at fault this year I still remember all the cries to change all The players on D when Lewis and Sheridan were fumbling around.

Its just wild. Hes the opposite of most great coaches. Who get the most out of the guys he has and adjusts to what they can and cant do. Its a mess. Painful.
While I can't stand these types of comments aired so publicly  
Jimmy Googs : 11/10/2017 7:15 pm : link
they just scream that McAdoo is on an island right now with no one to look towards to help him from this abyss.

But unfortunately he is not wrong about Eli. Our QB is playing poorly like many others and he is a contributing factor to losing way too many games.

And put all the shit aside regarding OBJ going down, poor Oline play, starting game streak, etc. Either Eli starts playing like a $20M QB that pulls up the play of others or he is going to find himself on the bench by halftime.

And then he is going to find himself out of a roster spot next season...
RE: I've felt since the day McAdoo became HC that he was  
KeoweeFan : 11/10/2017 7:18 pm : link
In comment 13684803 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
looking to replace Eli. When he came in as OC,Eli worked overtime to acclimate himself to Mac's offense. It's a shame that as HC he's never acclimated his offense to fit Eli.He's constantly gone out of his way to critique Eli's play,in a mostly negative fashion.Some coaches are meant to be HCs,others aren't. McAdoo is in the latter category!

I think you're on to something.
Ben came over with an idealistic vision of duplicating Packers "culture" and playbook but got stuck on Packers personnel. Eli is not Rogers. Yet he never found a way to utilize a FB; instead, like a broken record, repeating the same old 11 formation; even when he got legitimate FBs and multiple TEs.
He may have FB smarts, but his role may be a perpetual OC just like Spags may end his career as a DC.
RE: RE: ajr2456  
map7711 : 11/10/2017 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13685287 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685201 arniefez said:


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right now if I had to win a game Sunday? More than half of them.



So Eli is a top 10 QB in the league right now? That simply just isnt true.


You're not correct. Go away.
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
Reb8thVA : 11/10/2017 7:28 pm : link
In comment 13684982 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 13684819 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


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In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


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and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.

You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.

This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.

You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.

It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.


Yup!
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
Jimmy Googs : 11/10/2017 7:30 pm : link
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


Quote:


and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.


Sadly, I basically agree with this list...
RE: Like the Yankees fans...  
KeoweeFan : 11/10/2017 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13684990 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
who thought it unreasonable to drop Jeter in the order even when he was clearly not the same player he used to be, some on BBI think that Eli's past entitles him to a lifetime pass of criticism.

I'm not saying in a McAdoo vs. Eli match I'm taking the coach's side. I'm just saying, Eli has had some issues the last couple of years - he's one of the highest paid players in the league, clearly the highest paid player on the Giants, and as the leader of the offense is failing to get things done on the field. He should not be immune to criticism.

Furthermore, as a guy who has pelts on the wall the best thing he can do as a leader is accept that his game needs to improve. It's what he says to the media in his sessions as well. He's still working on his craft - apparently still one of if not the hardest worker on the team.

The comments McAdoo made earlier are much more innocuous than many fans have made them out to be.

Eli entered the league in 2004.
Those of us who are old timers recognise the pro game has changed AT LEAST every 10 years. If we could continue to play the 2005 season, Eli would possibly continue to be great. BUT IT IS A DIFFERENT GAME in 2017, and Eli didn't get any younger.
Not only did the pace of the 60 min game increase (e.g. from college to pro) but the rate of improvement of teams has also changed (LA and McVay for example).
The NYG need to catch up.
RE: RE: RE: ajr2456  
ajr2456 : 11/10/2017 8:11 pm : link
In comment 13685436 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685287 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13685201 arniefez said:


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right now if I had to win a game Sunday? More than half of them.



So Eli is a top 10 QB in the league right now? That simply just isnt true.



You're not correct. Go away.


It sucks that our guy is in decline, but its true. Top 10 QBs elevate their team, Eli cant do that anymore.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
WillVAB : 11/10/2017 9:01 pm : link
In comment 13685397 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 13685382 WillVAB said:


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In comment 13685332 ajr2456 said:


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In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:


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In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:


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In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


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and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan back to his mediocre ways in 17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.





You wouldnt have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli



Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.

Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now hes a stud?

Winston just isnt good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.

Id take a healthy Watson over Eli but thats the rub, he isnt healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers how can you say hes better when hes done for the year?



Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize were talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.


Over the course of this season Eli is definitely better than Rodgers because Rodgers is done for the year.

If youre talking long-term, its more of a debate than you think. Rodgers will be 35 and looks about as durable as Romo at this point.
Rodgers is one of the best of all time.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/10/2017 9:08 pm : link
Stop this madness.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer  
ajr2456 : 11/10/2017 10:12 pm : link
In comment 13685484 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13685382 WillVAB said:


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In comment 13685332 ajr2456 said:


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In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:


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In comment 13684794 arniefez said:


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and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.



No order:

1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan back to his mediocre ways in 17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford


So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.





You wouldnt have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli



Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.

Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now hes a stud?

Winston just isnt good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.

Id take a healthy Watson over Eli but thats the rub, he isnt healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers how can you say hes better when hes done for the year?



Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize were talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.



Over the course of this season Eli is definitely better than Rodgers because Rodgers is done for the year.

If youre talking long-term, its more of a debate than you think. Rodgers will be 35 and looks about as durable as Romo at this point.


Youre really missing the point. But sure, Ill play along Eli might be a top 10 QB if a bunch of guys are hurt.
Holy hell  
NYG07 : 11/11/2017 7:00 am : link
The defense of Eli Manning has reached absurd levels on this site. I defended Eli to no end when he was in his prime. He was a top 10 QB in spite of the turnover issues. That player is gone people. Stop living in the past. Just wanted to touch on some highlights of this thread.

My favorite. "How can you say Rodgers is better than Eli when he has been hurt this year?" Wow. In just 4 games this year, Rodgers vastly outplayed Eli Manning. Not even remotely close. Followed up with "it may be closer than you think, Rodgers is 35..." No, it is not close at all. Look how terrible the Packers are without him. That is what great QBs do, they elevate everyone around them. Eli does not do that at all at this stage of his career.

"Wilson - you must not watch him play very often" - Are people going to really try and argue that Eli is better than Wilson? He has a bad offensive line too but creates plays and yes, has been much better than Eli for years now.

"Ben has been mediocre all year and was all woe is me after a 5 INT game" - Eli has been worse than mediocre. Ben is in decline too, but is still better than Eli, and has been their entire careers. Do not bring character into this argument please. I am talking strictly on the field play.

"Ryan - back to his mediocre ways in 2017." Ryan has been a top ten QB for many years. Do you people watch games besides the Giants?

"Cousins has been solid but not definitely better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now hes a stud?" In what world has Eli been better than Cousins? It is not just 2 throws, he has been better for a couple years now.

"Carr- what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?" Christ, the guy broke his back. He was an MVP candidate last year.

Same thing with Watson. "Id take a healthy Watson over Eli but thats the rub, he isnt healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year?" So you think Eli being another year older will close the gap on Watson?

Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.

I will take it a step further than ajr's list. Eli has been a bottom third QB since the start of 2016. He gets paid like a top 10 QB but plays like Jay Cutler. The Giants won in spite of Eli last year. Even his credited 4th quarter come backs were just them taking the lead early in the 4th quarter and the defense suffocating the other team to hold the lead. Take the blinders off people, he just is not good anymore, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every QB can play until they are 40.
What does this even mean??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/11/2017 7:02 am : link
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Not only did the pace of the 60 min game increase (e.g. from college to pro) but the rate of improvement of teams has also changed (LA and McVay for example).
The NYG need to catch up.


The rate of improvement (and regression) for teams has basically been stale since 2000. Each year there is about a 50% turnover in the playoff teams from the previous year. If the season ended right now, 8 teams out of the 12 would be new playoff teams.

Saying LA and McVay are somehow ahead of the NFL curve is simply not true and basically can't be supported until we see what they do next year.

I'll post what I've posted numerous times - the Carolina Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons in their history. That includes two SB trips and two conference championship game seasons. Teams fall. And rise. All the time.
RE: Holy hell  
JCin332 : 11/11/2017 7:38 am : link
In comment 13685614 NYG07 said:
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The defense of Eli Manning has reached absurd levels on this site. I defended Eli to no end when he was in his prime. He was a top 10 QB in spite of the turnover issues. That player is gone people. Stop living in the past. Just wanted to touch on some highlights of this thread.

My favorite. "How can you say Rodgers is better than Eli when he has been hurt this year?" Wow. In just 4 games this year, Rodgers vastly outplayed Eli Manning. Not even remotely close. Followed up with "it may be closer than you think, Rodgers is 35..." No, it is not close at all. Look how terrible the Packers are without him. That is what great QBs do, they elevate everyone around them. Eli does not do that at all at this stage of his career.

"Wilson - you must not watch him play very often" - Are people going to really try and argue that Eli is better than Wilson? He has a bad offensive line too but creates plays and yes, has been much better than Eli for years now.

"Ben has been mediocre all year and was all woe is me after a 5 INT game" - Eli has been worse than mediocre. Ben is in decline too, but is still better than Eli, and has been their entire careers. Do not bring character into this argument please. I am talking strictly on the field play.

"Ryan - back to his mediocre ways in 2017." Ryan has been a top ten QB for many years. Do you people watch games besides the Giants?

"Cousins has been solid but not definitely better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now hes a stud?" In what world has Eli been better than Cousins? It is not just 2 throws, he has been better for a couple years now.

"Carr- what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?" Christ, the guy broke his back. He was an MVP candidate last year.

Same thing with Watson. "Id take a healthy Watson over Eli but thats the rub, he isnt healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year?" So you think Eli being another year older will close the gap on Watson?

Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.

I will take it a step further than ajr's list. Eli has been a bottom third QB since the start of 2016. He gets paid like a top 10 QB but plays like Jay Cutler. The Giants won in spite of Eli last year. Even his credited 4th quarter come backs were just them taking the lead early in the 4th quarter and the defense suffocating the other team to hold the lead. Take the blinders off people, he just is not good anymore, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every QB can play until they are 40.


You feel better now? What a nincompoop...go root for the Eagles...
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/11/2017 7:43 am : link
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Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.


Of course the scheme is going to get blamed. It is the one that can't put up more than 20 points in a game and has as many deep attempts as JPP has fingers.

Equally absurd are the comments acting as if this would be a much better offense under other QB's as well as this weird stance that several posters have taken where the blame Eli for the WR's getting injured, and I'm not even talking about that cuntmonkey EliteMobster in that group.
...  
christian : 11/11/2017 8:11 am : link
Again it's the bizarre phenomenon that's curiously hard for many to grasp: two things can be true simultaneously.

Manning has an eroding skillset and has played very poorly. Macadoo is in way over his head and coaching like shit.

Crazy, right?
RE: RE: Holy hell  
NYG07 : 11/11/2017 8:39 am : link
In comment 13685628 JCin332 said:
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In comment 13685614

You feel better now? What a nincompoop...go root for the Eagles...


Lol, so now I am a bad fan because I don't think Eli is above criticism and don't place all of the blame for his poor play on others?

I agree McAdoo sucks. I want him gone along with Reese and Ross. I also don't see the point in doing a full rebuild with a 37 year old declining, overpaid QB.

Oh and fuck the Eagles
There's no doubt  
BigK : 11/11/2017 9:30 am : link
In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?
RE: There's no doubt  
ajr2456 : 11/11/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13685691 BigK said:
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In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?


Top 10 QBs in the league dont need ideal circumstances to elevate the team to wins.
RE: RE: There's no doubt  
BigK : 11/11/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13685702 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 13685691 BigK said:


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In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?



Top 10 QBs in the league dont need ideal circumstances to elevate the team to wins.


I never said Eli was top 10 or that he needed "ideal" circumstances. He just needs an o-line that doesn't suck.
The o-line has been good enough..  
Sean : 11/11/2017 9:55 am : link
You cant expect an all pro offensive line. Look at Seattles o-line.
I love how people here seize on  
JCin332 : 11/11/2017 12:50 pm : link
false narratives to suit their opinions...

Like " Seattle's OL is as bad as the Giants"...

Pure poppycock...

Another one of my favs:

"Brady took less money for the good of the team"
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