"I think Eli needs to do a better job playing with fast feet and he I think he needs to sit on that back foot in the pocket. We're seeing a lot of man coverage, so the receivers, it's going to take a little time for them to get open, so everything may not be rhythmical. He's got to play with fast feet, he has to sit on his back foot and be ready to hitch into a throw. Things aren't always clean in this league. You watch film of the end zones throughout the league and you're seeing a lot of dirty pockets."
This season was started with McAdoo laying blame on Eli for his offensive struggles. And it has continued into this season. Link - ( New Window )
They both evade responsibility with doublespeak: “It’s all on me I’m the head coach and this falls on my shoulders, but everyone is accountable...”. “I’m the GM, it’s all on me but everyone is accountable...”. “Eli’s done so much and I respect him but everyone is accountable...”. McAdoof and Reach are cut from the same cloth.
Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.
everything. BigMac places blame and seems to hold everyone else accountable but him. BigMac is no where near the professional Manning is. He should shut up and try to learn something from a pro like Manning.
So he has an awareness of something and rather than use this as something for an adjustment, he'll just use it as an excuse. Nice.
He's saying he's straight and to the point. No need to glad hand someone because they won a Super Bowl years ago if they are not performing to expectations now.
motivation to make the comments he has is because his system requires a QB like Aaron rodgers (who doesn't grow on a tree), should cause one to look harder at changing the system.
that seem to think the best solution every time adversity hits is to "blow it up"
Its a pathetic showing of lack of patience and understanding on how things work in this league
An frankly unless you're part of the team (and we arent because we are just fans) you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
You want to blow it up, fine go for it but expect the next 3 years of being at the bottom of the division which will be less attracting for future players to resign aka OBJ.
An I'm sure the same fans will have amnesia about all of this and be calling out the organization again
And Eli should be held to a higher standard than his current play. But across the board, there are A LOT of people who need that message stronger than Eli starting with the man in the mirror, than Spags, than the OLine and the DBfield.
Eli? If is much further down the list than McAdoo has placed him.
ownership is saying the same thing about the coach. There is no reason for him to say these things in the press. If you truly feel that way about Eli, why make these statements? He's clearly pointing his finger at Eli to protect himself and that's pathetic.
But can still be right with his concerns about Eli. His general cluelessness as a leader of men and some of his shortcomings from an interpersonal
Standpoint don’t disqualify him from having an opinion on Eli’s performance when he is literally watching these things more closely and with more context than anyone walking the planet
And wouldn’t pile on anymore, but F that, this guy needs to meet the fate slade made up for him. Sick of his stupid face and even worse ability to communicate. If he doesn’t think Eli deserves anything because of past accomplishments then let’s throw last years 11-5 record out the window and look at BMs current record. Bye asshole.
And Eli should be held to a higher standard than his current play. But across the board, there are A LOT of people who need that message stronger than Eli starting with the man in the mirror, than Spags, than the OLine and the DBfield.
Eli? If is much further down the list than McAdoo has placed him.
Here's the thing though... as Eli has said in public, the coach knows that he can take that public criticism. In addition, the coach probably knows (and we know based on what we've seen from some of these guys) that people like Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers will not respond well to public criticism.
Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
RE: It’s possible that mcadoo is not a good head coach Â
But can still be right with his concerns about Eli. His general cluelessness as a leader of men and some of his shortcomings from an interpersonal
Standpoint don’t disqualify him from having an opinion on Eli’s performance when he is literally watching these things more closely and with more context than anyone walking the planet
You don't need to be Bill Walsh to see when Eli misses a wide open receiver or throws an inaccurate pass to an open receiver. People get killed on BBI for saying that... I can't imagine the response is much better when it's said from the podium. Doesn't mean he sucks or he needs to get hung in Times Square. It just means they need the QB to play better, even with the obstacles like the o-line and receivers.
I've felt since the day McAdoo became HC that he was Â
looking to replace Eli. When he came in as OC,Eli worked overtime to acclimate himself to Mac's offense. It's a shame that as HC he's never acclimated his offense to fit Eli.He's constantly gone out of his way to critique Eli's play,in a mostly negative fashion.Some coaches are meant to be HCs,others aren't. McAdoo is in the latter category!
and at very least wasted energy for McAdoo to even talk about Eli in press conferences. In the main, Eli has played well enough, while other aspects of the team have fizzled. If those other pieces don't flow into the crapper as they have, Eli Manning would not be on anyone's radar for negative articles or comments.
Everything's relative. And while this team is garbage in 2017, Eli is not. He deserves the respect to not be treated as a guy who "needs to be held accountable."
No shit, Ben.
Some might look at the comments and feel better. I read them and it solidified my disinterest and overall irritation in the thought of this guy as the Giants head coach going forward.
I'll hope for the best, like always. But I am cemented in the "not a fan" club.
RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
based on the players they have. My favorite example is Don Shula. He went from a punishing ground game with Griese, Czonka, Morris even Woodley. etc to air america with Marino and the smurfs. I'm sure he preferred the run game more but he went with what he had.
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
I like this McAdoo quote and I support it 100%. Everyone having an issue with it is just looking for someone to yell at.
Everyone on this team is responsible for the 1-7 record, the coach the most of them.
NFL is a performance based league, and the performance of this team is horrific and I suspect coaches (if not all of them) will be fired. I really don't care how or what McAdoo says to the press. I just care about W's.
I'd like to see McAdoo and the whole staff get fired, but I wouldn't be completely pissed off if he stayed and he was able to hire a full staff all by himself instead of a patchwork of the previous staff.
He doesn't really yell at any kid other than his own, who he's brutal to. The kid plays QB (better suited to OL) and can't throw the ball more than 10 yards. The genius designs plays where his kid has to throw it 20 ??? The obvious results (incomplete or pick) just draws more yelling from dad. It truly is a spectacle I won't miss at all.
A coach's first job is to put players in a position to succeed. McAdoo seems unwilling or unable to do that.
So he has an awareness of something and rather than use this as something for an adjustment, he'll just use it as an excuse. Nice.
This is the typical Reese/McAdoo game. Make a claim that they accept blame and then a few sentences later come out with the qualifier that allows them to place blame elsewhere.
Go back and read Reeses last press conference. It's the same damn startegy
"I think Eli needs to do a better job playing with fast feet and he I think he needs to sit on that back foot in the pocket. We're seeing a lot of man coverage, so the receivers, it's going to take a little time for them to get open, so everything may not be rhythmical. He's got to play with fast feet, he has to sit on his back foot and be ready to hitch into a throw. Things aren't always clean in this league. You watch film of the end zones throughout the league and you're seeing a lot of dirty pockets."
This season was started with McAdoo laying blame on Eli for his offensive struggles. And it has continued into this season. Link - ( New Window )
This offense doesn't llok so hot in Green Bay either without Rodgers running it and improvising
I think "Accountablity" won the latest game of Blue Blue Scrabble Â
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
RE: I've thought all along that McAdoo calls out Eli Â
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
I don't think Eli has played poorly. He is playing in an offense that hasn't adjusted from the first week of last year until now to the defenses they are seeing. The playcalling and gameplan seems to want him to throw a lot of VERY short passes to get it out quickly. They run the same personnel package almost every down and they are telegraphing their plays. It is embarrassing when the D is calling out the play (that has happened on many occasions). Give Eli a real HC and a real OC and he is fine.
As an OC, I thought McAdoo did a good job. He hasn't run the same offense as 2014-2015 since becoming HC.
RE: I've thought all along that McAdoo calls out Eli Â
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
He’s in an offense that requires a great amount of mobility. Macadoo came here promising that he could make Eli better. He installed his system and Eli has progressively gotten worse. This falls right on Macadoo feet. He said he would have Eli completing over 70% of his throws. Now he can’t reach that number so it’s Eli’s fault? F that. BM came here with a promise and hasn’t delivered. He’s the one that needs to be held accountable.
Where it seems like this is a contingent of fans who seem like bigger Eli fans than Giants fans. I appreciate Eli’s career here as much as the next guy but I just find a lot of this weird. No need to name names and if you take offense to this post it’s probably because you are one of them
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
He’s in an offense that requires a great amount of mobility. Macadoo came here promising that he could make Eli better. He installed his system and Eli has progressively gotten worse. This falls right on Macadoo feet. He said he would have Eli completing over 70% of his throws. Now he can’t reach that number so it’s Eli’s fault? F that. BM came here with a promise and hasn’t delivered. He’s the one that needs to be held accountable.
That's just not true. the offense he installed when he came over saw 2 of Eli's best seasons. He is running a different offense the last 2 years. I don't know if Coughlin's influence still existed in 2014-2015 over the offense. But, that version of the WCO was working.
RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
RE: RE: RE: I've thought all along that McAdoo calls out Eli Â
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
He’s in an offense that requires a great amount of mobility. Macadoo came here promising that he could make Eli better. He installed his system and Eli has progressively gotten worse. This falls right on Macadoo feet. He said he would have Eli completing over 70% of his throws. Now he can’t reach that number so it’s Eli’s fault? F that. BM came here with a promise and hasn’t delivered. He’s the one that needs to be held accountable.
That's just not true. the offense he installed when he came over saw 2 of Eli's best seasons. He is running a different offense the last 2 years. I don't know if Coughlin's influence still existed in 2014-2015 over the offense. But, that version of the WCO was working.
It’s my understanding he was still using TCs playbook the first two seasons. Making it not his offense.
They both evade responsibility with doublespeak: “It’s all on me I’m the head coach and this falls on my shoulders, but everyone is accountable...”. “I’m the GM, it’s all on me but everyone is accountable...”. “Eli’s done so much and I respect him but everyone is accountable...”. McAdoof and Reach are cut from the same cloth.
Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.
Really? I'm not sure I'm going to take lessons in "leadership and accountability" from somebody calling them "McAdoof and Reach".
Nothing but manchildren around here when they're losing.
Where it seems like this is a contingent of fans who seem like bigger Eli fans than Giants fans. I appreciate Eli’s career here as much as the next guy but I just find a lot of this weird. No need to name names and if you take offense to this post it’s probably because you are one of them
it definitely feels like this is Eli Manning Interactive some days
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
who thought it unreasonable to drop Jeter in the order even when he was clearly not the same player he used to be, some on BBI think that Eli's past entitles him to a lifetime pass of criticism.
I'm not saying in a McAdoo vs. Eli match I'm taking the coach's side. I'm just saying, Eli has had some issues the last couple of years - he's one of the highest paid players in the league, clearly the highest paid player on the Giants, and as the leader of the offense is failing to get things done on the field. He should not be immune to criticism.
Furthermore, as a guy who has pelts on the wall the best thing he can do as a leader is accept that his game needs to improve. It's what he says to the media in his sessions as well. He's still working on his craft - apparently still one of if not the hardest worker on the team.
The comments McAdoo made earlier are much more innocuous than many fans have made them out to be.
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible. Having said that, Eli has had many opportunities to look downfield and find open receivers this year and has foregone them. You can chalk that up to a poor OL, but even when he has protection he has had a tendency to look for the easy completion instead of looking for the opportunity deep.
That may be a result of the emphasis on "protecting the Duke", which I would blame on McAdoo and Sullivan, because Eli used to be much more of a gunslinger and risk-taker downfield. Nowadays he seems more content to throw the 3 yard pass on 3rd and long than to give his playmakers a chance to make a play downfield.
offense is tailored to play to our franchise QB's weaknesses instead of his strengths, we're playing with rotating cast of WRs. It takes time to get on the same page. He really hasn't had a steady cast all season.
I don't think mcadoo is necessarily wrong on Eli's play Â
motivation to make the comments he has is because his system requires a QB like Aaron rodgers (who doesn't grow on a tree), should cause one to look harder at changing the system.
Bingo: Aaron Rodgers' QB style, almost unparalleled quickness and accuracy (most of the time) and his escapability were what the description in Eddie's 10:00 AM pounded home. Eli has was never an AR and he's only going to grow less like an AR (minus the injury).
But we all knew and know that: that is why this is on Reese, because Reese's ineptitude over the past five years in putting together an OL suited to the NYG franchise QB has crippled the offense. And, yes, the HC has to recognize that. But when your OL can't pocket protect for longer routes and patterns to develop--what choice does the offensive design have but to go quicker and shorter? A conundrum.
I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible.
Should read don't DISAGREE. I know that the offense is horrible and imo McAdoo is completely responsible for it. I am of a different opinion than you about the lack of downfield attempts, in that I think Eli could and should be taking more shots downfield than he has. He's had his guys open at times and hasn't even looked downfield on many occasions this year.
This is one of the worst offenses I have ever seen the
sooner MacHandley goes the better . GB is horseshit without
Rogers who could make any team better and win championships
Enough of the Reese rea . Time to start a new it's amazing
how teams are able to get Collins in match up problems
on a weekly basis he is a great defender going forward
the free safety has been invisible . Watching the Collins having to turn and run with Watkins while all four DB's were going forward with Thompson guarding thin air .
We get out coached on a weekly basis . I would take Hargreaves over Apple in a heartbeat . Hargeaves is much more sounder in technique . He played OBJ pretty damn well
Clean House !
motivation to make the comments he has is because his system requires a QB like Aaron rodgers (who doesn't grow on a tree), should cause one to look harder at changing the system.
Was just going to post something along these lines.
The GB system is trash —whether it’s McCarthy or McAdoo. GB runs a lot of the same concepts we do and they look completely inept without Rodgers.
That system requires a mobile QB who can make big plays on broken plays and be a threat with his legs to draw the defense away from coverage
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
If anyone thinks some people are saying Eli played poorly Sunday because he missed ONE deep pass to Sterling Shepard, then they're delusional or didn't pay their cable bill and didn't actually see the game. He threw an abominable interception. Even on a simpler 3rd & 2 pass to Shane Vereen, he threw a pass Vereen couldn't haul in because it was off the mark. There were more plays than that Eli missed. Opportunities for "positive" plays are there and the QB has missed too many of them. Sometimes, he throws an accurate pass and Brandon Marshall or Odell Beckham dropped them. Sometimes a receiver is open and the guy everyone wanted to start (DJ Fluker) can't remember the snap count or John Jerry gets blown by as if he didn't exist and Eli has no chance. And more recently, there are people running patterns who aren't NFL players.
I think that's the frustration of the head coach. People are complaining about the offense while there are plays to be made on the field and guys simply aren't executing the fundamentals of their job. That includes the QB. I'm not absolving the coach of blame. For example, I put the first 2 weeks of the season directly on his shoulders. But I feel like EVERYONE is to blame whereas some people make excuses for Eli regardless of how he plays. As fans, if we want to have rational/honest conversations about the team, we have to be better than that.
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Lmao another "list of QB's better than Eli"...
Every year there is a new one and a lot will be off by next year like the others before...
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Lmao another "list of QB's better than Eli"...
Every year there is a new one and a lot will be off by next year like the others before...
Which one of those guys would you rather have a 37 year old Eli over?
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible.
Should read don't DISAGREE. I know that the offense is horrible and imo McAdoo is completely responsible for it. I am of a different opinion than you about the lack of downfield attempts, in that I think Eli could and should be taking more shots downfield than he has. He's had his guys open at times and hasn't even looked downfield on many occasions this year.
The difficult thing about evaluating QB play is that we as fans don't know where the primary reads are. There may be guys open downfield, but if Eli's primary read is open, that is where he's going to go.
The infuriating thing about McAdoo's offense if how susceptible it is to a cover 2 shell. A lot of that is personnel, but even when the Giants had weapons on the field, they still struggled v the cover 2. That tells me it's a system-wide offensive design problem.
as an HC is now dealing with the legacy of cleaning the Augean stables of incompetence within the Giants organization. Summary, he is the scapegoat for incompetent actions and strategy above. Let's not kid ourselves. McAdoo's first mistake was to naively take the job, and secondly to participate as an agent and actor to push TC out. Now he get his reward and it was a big risk. Not paying off for McAdoo. Again experience is important in a big and political environment. Unless you have a savy experienced coach that can influence and win (Parcells and TC) forget it. McAdoo was likely throwaway anyway, we shall see.
I have felt since day one that MacAdoo was the wrong Â
man for the job, bringing in a west coast offense to a team with an immobile QB was a recipe for disaster and we're seeing the results of it right now....
I have no problem with what Mc said.
QBs are the face of the franchise...get the big $$$ and the heroes in success....get the big money and are the goats in failure(usually).
Eli's skillset has always been good but not great and he has accomplished much with what hes got..his best gifts are his heart of a champion and football intelligence.
That all said his passing skills have declined...is it concentration? Something else mental? Physical? DavidCarr-itis/longterm OLsucks-itis? cause/effect of all the above? Who knows?
Eli deserves criticism ...with a qualifier statement...and got it with the 'all' play better comment.
I'm sure he hates the dump on..but knows it comes with the territory.
Would be nice though if someone else on the team/in the organization had skin thick enough to not bring others with them under the bus.
RE: I have felt since day one that MacAdoo was the wrong Â
man for the job, bringing in a west coast offense to a team with an immobile QB was a recipe for disaster and we're seeing the results of it right now....
What is wild about your comment is very damning in that TC was largely a vertical down field strike guy with running game to keep the defense on edge. That is the variable that works against NFL defenses. You have to do those 2 things as a statistical measure to win and collect trophies. The minute that we cannot do either, we do the dumb thing and switch schemes to solve 2 and 3rd down problems after scripted run on down 1. To me it is Reese and his merrymen cover their incompetence to fix the player roles because they invested too much in the contracts of specialty players (Eli, pass rushers, secondary).
So is Eli. His lack of mobility is in stark contrast to other quarterbacks around the league who extend plays and ellavate the play of those around him.
He can t play without a clean pocket , others can.
The blinders some wear where Eli s play is concerned is not objective.
He is a good part of the problem this year.
RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
if you are going to caveat it with Eli being 37 than you also have to take into account what Kirk fucking Cousins will be getting to play like crap in big games.
I'd rather Eli at 37 and coming off the books in 2019 than Cousins at $25 million per year for the next 5-6 years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
The difficult thing about evaluating QB play is that we as fans don't know where the primary reads are. There may be guys open downfield, but if Eli's primary read is open, that is where he's going to go.
The infuriating thing about McAdoo's offense if how susceptible it is to a cover 2 shell. A lot of that is personnel, but even when the Giants had weapons on the field, they still struggled v the cover 2. That tells me it's a system-wide offensive design problem.
Agree - and it is a frustrating system that makes the primary read on 3rd and 7 a 3yd crossing route to a TE.
Even if a secondary read is coming open for a first down, Eli has shown many times this year a willingness to go with his first read and make the completion the defense is willing to give him - short of the first down.
Sometimes I think a part of the problem with the offense is that Eli reads defenses so well and knows what they are giving him pre-snap, so then he locks in and takes those things. This in turn leads to short completions and the defense dictating the play of the offense.
Combine that with a fear of turning the ball over and it's no wonder we see little/no attempts downfield.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize we’re talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
They both evade responsibility with doublespeak: “It’s all on me I’m the head coach and this falls on my shoulders, but everyone is accountable...”. “I’m the GM, it’s all on me but everyone is accountable...”. “Eli’s done so much and I respect him but everyone is accountable...”. McAdoof and Reach are cut from the same cloth.
Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.
You comments may be very reasonable; but would you please stop with the childish name-calling. Speaking for myself, that habit turns me off from considering the validity of your opinions.
Management in the large too big to fail corporate world. He’s shitty at his job. Unimaginative. Full of useless sayinging. They always say everyone is accountable. Especially himself. But then usually try’s to deflect blame.
Being the opposite of “accountable”.
And while the players are just as at fault this year I still remember all the cries to change all The players on D when Lewis and Sheridan were fumbling around.
It’s just wild. He’s the opposite of most great coaches. Who get the most out of the guys he has and adjusts to what they can and can’t do. It’s a mess. Painful.
While I can't stand these types of comments aired so publicly Â
they just scream that McAdoo is on an island right now with no one to look towards to help him from this abyss.
But unfortunately he is not wrong about Eli. Our QB is playing poorly like many others and he is a contributing factor to losing way too many games.
And put all the shit aside regarding OBJ going down, poor Oline play, starting game streak, etc. Either Eli starts playing like a $20M QB that pulls up the play of others or he is going to find himself on the bench by halftime.
And then he is going to find himself out of a roster spot next season...
RE: I've felt since the day McAdoo became HC that he was Â
looking to replace Eli. When he came in as OC,Eli worked overtime to acclimate himself to Mac's offense. It's a shame that as HC he's never acclimated his offense to fit Eli.He's constantly gone out of his way to critique Eli's play,in a mostly negative fashion.Some coaches are meant to be HCs,others aren't. McAdoo is in the latter category!
I think you're on to something.
Ben came over with an idealistic vision of duplicating Packers "culture" and playbook but got stuck on Packers personnel. Eli is not Rogers. Yet he never found a way to utilize a FB; instead, like a broken record, repeating the same old 11 formation; even when he got legitimate FBs and multiple TEs.
He may have FB smarts, but his role may be a perpetual OC just like Spags may end his career as a DC.
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
Yup!
RE: RE: Look Eli isn't going to be the QB of the Giants much longer Â
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
who thought it unreasonable to drop Jeter in the order even when he was clearly not the same player he used to be, some on BBI think that Eli's past entitles him to a lifetime pass of criticism.
I'm not saying in a McAdoo vs. Eli match I'm taking the coach's side. I'm just saying, Eli has had some issues the last couple of years - he's one of the highest paid players in the league, clearly the highest paid player on the Giants, and as the leader of the offense is failing to get things done on the field. He should not be immune to criticism.
Furthermore, as a guy who has pelts on the wall the best thing he can do as a leader is accept that his game needs to improve. It's what he says to the media in his sessions as well. He's still working on his craft - apparently still one of if not the hardest worker on the team.
The comments McAdoo made earlier are much more innocuous than many fans have made them out to be.
Eli entered the league in 2004.
Those of us who are old timers recognise the pro game has changed AT LEAST every 10 years. If we could continue to play the 2005 season, Eli would possibly continue to be great. BUT IT IS A DIFFERENT GAME in 2017, and Eli didn't get any younger.
Not only did the pace of the 60 min game increase (e.g. from college to pro) but the rate of improvement of teams has also changed (LA and McVay for example).
The NYG need to catch up.
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize we’re talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
Over the course of this season Eli is definitely better than Rodgers because Rodgers is done for the year.
If you’re talking long-term, it’s more of a debate than you think. Rodgers will be 35 and looks about as durable as Romo at this point.
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize we’re talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
Over the course of this season Eli is definitely better than Rodgers because Rodgers is done for the year.
If you’re talking long-term, it’s more of a debate than you think. Rodgers will be 35 and looks about as durable as Romo at this point.
You’re really missing the point. But sure, I’ll play along Eli might be a top 10 QB if a bunch of guys are hurt.
The defense of Eli Manning has reached absurd levels on this site. I defended Eli to no end when he was in his prime. He was a top 10 QB in spite of the turnover issues. That player is gone people. Stop living in the past. Just wanted to touch on some highlights of this thread.
My favorite. "How can you say Rodgers is better than Eli when he has been hurt this year?" Wow. In just 4 games this year, Rodgers vastly outplayed Eli Manning. Not even remotely close. Followed up with "it may be closer than you think, Rodgers is 35..." No, it is not close at all. Look how terrible the Packers are without him. That is what great QBs do, they elevate everyone around them. Eli does not do that at all at this stage of his career.
"Wilson - you must not watch him play very often" - Are people going to really try and argue that Eli is better than Wilson? He has a bad offensive line too but creates plays and yes, has been much better than Eli for years now.
"Ben has been mediocre all year and was all woe is me after a 5 INT game" - Eli has been worse than mediocre. Ben is in decline too, but is still better than Eli, and has been their entire careers. Do not bring character into this argument please. I am talking strictly on the field play.
"Ryan - back to his mediocre ways in 2017." Ryan has been a top ten QB for many years. Do you people watch games besides the Giants?
"Cousins has been solid but not definitely better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?" In what world has Eli been better than Cousins? It is not just 2 throws, he has been better for a couple years now.
"Carr- what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?" Christ, the guy broke his back. He was an MVP candidate last year.
Same thing with Watson. "I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year?" So you think Eli being another year older will close the gap on Watson?
Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.
I will take it a step further than ajr's list. Eli has been a bottom third QB since the start of 2016. He gets paid like a top 10 QB but plays like Jay Cutler. The Giants won in spite of Eli last year. Even his credited 4th quarter come backs were just them taking the lead early in the 4th quarter and the defense suffocating the other team to hold the lead. Take the blinders off people, he just is not good anymore, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every QB can play until they are 40.
Not only did the pace of the 60 min game increase (e.g. from college to pro) but the rate of improvement of teams has also changed (LA and McVay for example).
The NYG need to catch up.
The rate of improvement (and regression) for teams has basically been stale since 2000. Each year there is about a 50% turnover in the playoff teams from the previous year. If the season ended right now, 8 teams out of the 12 would be new playoff teams.
Saying LA and McVay are somehow ahead of the NFL curve is simply not true and basically can't be supported until we see what they do next year.
I'll post what I've posted numerous times - the Carolina Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons in their history. That includes two SB trips and two conference championship game seasons. Teams fall. And rise. All the time.
The defense of Eli Manning has reached absurd levels on this site. I defended Eli to no end when he was in his prime. He was a top 10 QB in spite of the turnover issues. That player is gone people. Stop living in the past. Just wanted to touch on some highlights of this thread.
My favorite. "How can you say Rodgers is better than Eli when he has been hurt this year?" Wow. In just 4 games this year, Rodgers vastly outplayed Eli Manning. Not even remotely close. Followed up with "it may be closer than you think, Rodgers is 35..." No, it is not close at all. Look how terrible the Packers are without him. That is what great QBs do, they elevate everyone around them. Eli does not do that at all at this stage of his career.
"Wilson - you must not watch him play very often" - Are people going to really try and argue that Eli is better than Wilson? He has a bad offensive line too but creates plays and yes, has been much better than Eli for years now.
"Ben has been mediocre all year and was all woe is me after a 5 INT game" - Eli has been worse than mediocre. Ben is in decline too, but is still better than Eli, and has been their entire careers. Do not bring character into this argument please. I am talking strictly on the field play.
"Ryan - back to his mediocre ways in 2017." Ryan has been a top ten QB for many years. Do you people watch games besides the Giants?
"Cousins has been solid but not definitely better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?" In what world has Eli been better than Cousins? It is not just 2 throws, he has been better for a couple years now.
"Carr- what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?" Christ, the guy broke his back. He was an MVP candidate last year.
Same thing with Watson. "I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year?" So you think Eli being another year older will close the gap on Watson?
Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.
I will take it a step further than ajr's list. Eli has been a bottom third QB since the start of 2016. He gets paid like a top 10 QB but plays like Jay Cutler. The Giants won in spite of Eli last year. Even his credited 4th quarter come backs were just them taking the lead early in the 4th quarter and the defense suffocating the other team to hold the lead. Take the blinders off people, he just is not good anymore, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every QB can play until they are 40.
You feel better now? What a nincompoop...go root for the Eagles...
Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.
Of course the scheme is going to get blamed. It is the one that can't put up more than 20 points in a game and has as many deep attempts as JPP has fingers.
Equally absurd are the comments acting as if this would be a much better offense under other QB's as well as this weird stance that several posters have taken where the blame Eli for the WR's getting injured, and I'm not even talking about that cuntmonkey EliteMobster in that group.
You feel better now? What a nincompoop...go root for the Eagles...
Lol, so now I am a bad fan because I don't think Eli is above criticism and don't place all of the blame for his poor play on others?
I agree McAdoo sucks. I want him gone along with Reese and Ross. I also don't see the point in doing a full rebuild with a 37 year old declining, overpaid QB.
In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?
In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?
Top 10 QBs in the league don’t need ideal circumstances to elevate the team to wins.
In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?
Top 10 QBs in the league don’t need ideal circumstances to elevate the team to wins.
I never said Eli was top 10 or that he needed "ideal" circumstances. He just needs an o-line that doesn't suck.
Can we put this to nonsense about Eli/QB controversy to bed already?
This season was started with McAdoo laying blame on Eli for his offensive struggles. And it has continued into this season.
Link - ( New Window )
Here is how I read your post
Can we put this to nonsense about Eli/QB controversy to bed already?
Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.
So he has an awareness of something and rather than use this as something for an adjustment, he'll just use it as an excuse. Nice.
So he has an awareness of something and rather than use this as something for an adjustment, he'll just use it as an excuse. Nice.
He's saying he's straight and to the point. No need to glad hand someone because they won a Super Bowl years ago if they are not performing to expectations now.
Its a pathetic showing of lack of patience and understanding on how things work in this league
An frankly unless you're part of the team (and we arent because we are just fans) you really have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
You want to blow it up, fine go for it but expect the next 3 years of being at the bottom of the division which will be less attracting for future players to resign aka OBJ.
An I'm sure the same fans will have amnesia about all of this and be calling out the organization again
RIGHT!!!! There is "accountability" for 1-7 Mr. McAdoo.
Eli? If is much further down the list than McAdoo has placed him.
Very sorry if your parents didn't say "I love You" before bedtime!! Does not give you the license to being a total DOUCHEBAG!!!
Standpoint don’t disqualify him from having an opinion on Eli’s performance when he is literally watching these things more closely and with more context than anyone walking the planet
Eli? If is much further down the list than McAdoo has placed him.
Here's the thing though... as Eli has said in public, the coach knows that he can take that public criticism. In addition, the coach probably knows (and we know based on what we've seen from some of these guys) that people like Eli Apple and Ereck Flowers will not respond well to public criticism.
Standpoint don’t disqualify him from having an opinion on Eli’s performance when he is literally watching these things more closely and with more context than anyone walking the planet
You don't need to be Bill Walsh to see when Eli misses a wide open receiver or throws an inaccurate pass to an open receiver. People get killed on BBI for saying that... I can't imagine the response is much better when it's said from the podium. Doesn't mean he sucks or he needs to get hung in Times Square. It just means they need the QB to play better, even with the obstacles like the o-line and receivers.
Everything's relative. And while this team is garbage in 2017, Eli is not. He deserves the respect to not be treated as a guy who "needs to be held accountable."
No shit, Ben.
Some might look at the comments and feel better. I read them and it solidified my disinterest and overall irritation in the thought of this guy as the Giants head coach going forward.
I'll hope for the best, like always. But I am cemented in the "not a fan" club.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
Well said.
Everyone on this team is responsible for the 1-7 record, the coach the most of them.
NFL is a performance based league, and the performance of this team is horrific and I suspect coaches (if not all of them) will be fired. I really don't care how or what McAdoo says to the press. I just care about W's.
I'd like to see McAdoo and the whole staff get fired, but I wouldn't be completely pissed off if he stayed and he was able to hire a full staff all by himself instead of a patchwork of the previous staff.
A coach's first job is to put players in a position to succeed. McAdoo seems unwilling or unable to do that.
So he has an awareness of something and rather than use this as something for an adjustment, he'll just use it as an excuse. Nice.
This is the typical Reese/McAdoo game. Make a claim that they accept blame and then a few sentences later come out with the qualifier that allows them to place blame elsewhere.
Go back and read Reeses last press conference. It's the same damn startegy
Quote:
"I think Eli needs to do a better job playing with fast feet and he I think he needs to sit on that back foot in the pocket. We're seeing a lot of man coverage, so the receivers, it's going to take a little time for them to get open, so everything may not be rhythmical. He's got to play with fast feet, he has to sit on his back foot and be ready to hitch into a throw. Things aren't always clean in this league. You watch film of the end zones throughout the league and you're seeing a lot of dirty pockets."
This season was started with McAdoo laying blame on Eli for his offensive struggles. And it has continued into this season. Link - ( New Window )
This offense doesn't llok so hot in Green Bay either without Rodgers running it and improvising
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
As an OC, I thought McAdoo did a good job. He hasn't run the same offense as 2014-2015 since becoming HC.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
He’s in an offense that requires a great amount of mobility. Macadoo came here promising that he could make Eli better. He installed his system and Eli has progressively gotten worse. This falls right on Macadoo feet. He said he would have Eli completing over 70% of his throws. Now he can’t reach that number so it’s Eli’s fault? F that. BM came here with a promise and hasn’t delivered. He’s the one that needs to be held accountable.
Quote:
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
He’s in an offense that requires a great amount of mobility. Macadoo came here promising that he could make Eli better. He installed his system and Eli has progressively gotten worse. This falls right on Macadoo feet. He said he would have Eli completing over 70% of his throws. Now he can’t reach that number so it’s Eli’s fault? F that. BM came here with a promise and hasn’t delivered. He’s the one that needs to be held accountable.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Quote:
In comment 13684896 Section331 said:
Quote:
because he knows Eli can take it, while some of the younger players may not be able to. That said, the constant criticism does get tired, and exposes McAdoo as someone who doesn't have the answers.
I've defended Eli as strenuously as anyone on this board, but his play over the past year and a half deserves criticism. He hasn't played well, and I've seen little over that time to indicate that he is still a top half of the league QB. Maybe it's the crap offense he's been handed, but by all accounts, he strongly lobbied for McAdoo, so he knew what offense he was getting.
He’s in an offense that requires a great amount of mobility. Macadoo came here promising that he could make Eli better. He installed his system and Eli has progressively gotten worse. This falls right on Macadoo feet. He said he would have Eli completing over 70% of his throws. Now he can’t reach that number so it’s Eli’s fault? F that. BM came here with a promise and hasn’t delivered. He’s the one that needs to be held accountable.
That's just not true. the offense he installed when he came over saw 2 of Eli's best seasons. He is running a different offense the last 2 years. I don't know if Coughlin's influence still existed in 2014-2015 over the offense. But, that version of the WCO was working.
It’s my understanding he was still using TCs playbook the first two seasons. Making it not his offense.
Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.
Really? I'm not sure I'm going to take lessons in "leadership and accountability" from somebody calling them "McAdoof and Reach".
Nothing but manchildren around here when they're losing.
See how the Packers are faring now
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
I'm not saying in a McAdoo vs. Eli match I'm taking the coach's side. I'm just saying, Eli has had some issues the last couple of years - he's one of the highest paid players in the league, clearly the highest paid player on the Giants, and as the leader of the offense is failing to get things done on the field. He should not be immune to criticism.
Furthermore, as a guy who has pelts on the wall the best thing he can do as a leader is accept that his game needs to improve. It's what he says to the media in his sessions as well. He's still working on his craft - apparently still one of if not the hardest worker on the team.
The comments McAdoo made earlier are much more innocuous than many fans have made them out to be.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible. Having said that, Eli has had many opportunities to look downfield and find open receivers this year and has foregone them. You can chalk that up to a poor OL, but even when he has protection he has had a tendency to look for the easy completion instead of looking for the opportunity deep.
That may be a result of the emphasis on "protecting the Duke", which I would blame on McAdoo and Sullivan, because Eli used to be much more of a gunslinger and risk-taker downfield. Nowadays he seems more content to throw the 3 yard pass on 3rd and long than to give his playmakers a chance to make a play downfield.
But we all knew and know that: that is why this is on Reese, because Reese's ineptitude over the past five years in putting together an OL suited to the NYG franchise QB has crippled the offense. And, yes, the HC has to recognize that. But when your OL can't pocket protect for longer routes and patterns to develop--what choice does the offensive design have but to go quicker and shorter? A conundrum.
I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible.
Should read don't DISAGREE. I know that the offense is horrible and imo McAdoo is completely responsible for it. I am of a different opinion than you about the lack of downfield attempts, in that I think Eli could and should be taking more shots downfield than he has. He's had his guys open at times and hasn't even looked downfield on many occasions this year.
sooner MacHandley goes the better . GB is horseshit without
Rogers who could make any team better and win championships
Enough of the Reese rea . Time to start a new it's amazing
how teams are able to get Collins in match up problems
on a weekly basis he is a great defender going forward
the free safety has been invisible . Watching the Collins having to turn and run with Watkins while all four DB's were going forward with Thompson guarding thin air .
We get out coached on a weekly basis . I would take Hargreaves over Apple in a heartbeat . Hargeaves is much more sounder in technique . He played OBJ pretty damn well
Clean House !
Was just going to post something along these lines.
The GB system is trash —whether it’s McCarthy or McAdoo. GB runs a lot of the same concepts we do and they look completely inept without Rodgers.
That system requires a mobile QB who can make big plays on broken plays and be a threat with his legs to draw the defense away from coverage
This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
If anyone thinks some people are saying Eli played poorly Sunday because he missed ONE deep pass to Sterling Shepard, then they're delusional or didn't pay their cable bill and didn't actually see the game. He threw an abominable interception. Even on a simpler 3rd & 2 pass to Shane Vereen, he threw a pass Vereen couldn't haul in because it was off the mark. There were more plays than that Eli missed. Opportunities for "positive" plays are there and the QB has missed too many of them. Sometimes, he throws an accurate pass and Brandon Marshall or Odell Beckham dropped them. Sometimes a receiver is open and the guy everyone wanted to start (DJ Fluker) can't remember the snap count or John Jerry gets blown by as if he didn't exist and Eli has no chance. And more recently, there are people running patterns who aren't NFL players.
I think that's the frustration of the head coach. People are complaining about the offense while there are plays to be made on the field and guys simply aren't executing the fundamentals of their job. That includes the QB. I'm not absolving the coach of blame. For example, I put the first 2 weeks of the season directly on his shoulders. But I feel like EVERYONE is to blame whereas some people make excuses for Eli regardless of how he plays. As fans, if we want to have rational/honest conversations about the team, we have to be better than that.
I guess you missed the first series after great runs buy Darkwa, At mid field Eli getting sacked and immediately fumbling
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Lmao another "list of QB's better than Eli"...
Every year there is a new one and a lot will be off by next year like the others before...
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Lmao another "list of QB's better than Eli"...
Every year there is a new one and a lot will be off by next year like the others before...
Which one of those guys would you rather have a 37 year old Eli over?
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Quote:
I don't agree that the offense is bad and McAdoo is responsible.
Should read don't DISAGREE. I know that the offense is horrible and imo McAdoo is completely responsible for it. I am of a different opinion than you about the lack of downfield attempts, in that I think Eli could and should be taking more shots downfield than he has. He's had his guys open at times and hasn't even looked downfield on many occasions this year.
The difficult thing about evaluating QB play is that we as fans don't know where the primary reads are. There may be guys open downfield, but if Eli's primary read is open, that is where he's going to go.
The infuriating thing about McAdoo's offense if how susceptible it is to a cover 2 shell. A lot of that is personnel, but even when the Giants had weapons on the field, they still struggled v the cover 2. That tells me it's a system-wide offensive design problem.
So Eli is a top 10 QB in the league right now? That simply just isn’t true.
QBs are the face of the franchise...get the big $$$ and the heroes in success....get the big money and are the goats in failure(usually).
Eli's skillset has always been good but not great and he has accomplished much with what hes got..his best gifts are his heart of a champion and football intelligence.
That all said his passing skills have declined...is it concentration? Something else mental? Physical? DavidCarr-itis/longterm OLsucks-itis? cause/effect of all the above? Who knows?
Eli deserves criticism ...with a qualifier statement...and got it with the 'all' play better comment.
I'm sure he hates the dump on..but knows it comes with the territory.
Would be nice though if someone else on the team/in the organization had skin thick enough to not bring others with them under the bus.
What is wild about your comment is very damning in that TC was largely a vertical down field strike guy with running game to keep the defense on edge. That is the variable that works against NFL defenses. You have to do those 2 things as a statistical measure to win and collect trophies. The minute that we cannot do either, we do the dumb thing and switch schemes to solve 2 and 3rd down problems after scripted run on down 1. To me it is Reese and his merrymen cover their incompetence to fix the player roles because they invested too much in the contracts of specialty players (Eli, pass rushers, secondary).
Nor does he seem to know the First Rule of Holes:
He can t play without a clean pocket , others can.
The blinders some wear where Eli s play is concerned is not objective.
He is a good part of the problem this year.
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
I'd rather Eli at 37 and coming off the books in 2019 than Cousins at $25 million per year for the next 5-6 years.
Quote:
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
The difficult thing about evaluating QB play is that we as fans don't know where the primary reads are. There may be guys open downfield, but if Eli's primary read is open, that is where he's going to go.
The infuriating thing about McAdoo's offense if how susceptible it is to a cover 2 shell. A lot of that is personnel, but even when the Giants had weapons on the field, they still struggled v the cover 2. That tells me it's a system-wide offensive design problem.
Agree - and it is a frustrating system that makes the primary read on 3rd and 7 a 3yd crossing route to a TE.
Even if a secondary read is coming open for a first down, Eli has shown many times this year a willingness to go with his first read and make the completion the defense is willing to give him - short of the first down.
Sometimes I think a part of the problem with the offense is that Eli reads defenses so well and knows what they are giving him pre-snap, so then he locks in and takes those things. This in turn leads to short completions and the defense dictating the play of the offense.
Combine that with a fear of turning the ball over and it's no wonder we see little/no attempts downfield.
Quote:
In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize we’re talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
Attitude follows leadership. Get rid of GM, the entire coaching staff. Start over.
You comments may be very reasonable; but would you please stop with the childish name-calling. Speaking for myself, that habit turns me off from considering the validity of your opinions.
Being the opposite of “accountable”.
And while the players are just as at fault this year I still remember all the cries to change all The players on D when Lewis and Sheridan were fumbling around.
It’s just wild. He’s the opposite of most great coaches. Who get the most out of the guys he has and adjusts to what they can and can’t do. It’s a mess. Painful.
But unfortunately he is not wrong about Eli. Our QB is playing poorly like many others and he is a contributing factor to losing way too many games.
And put all the shit aside regarding OBJ going down, poor Oline play, starting game streak, etc. Either Eli starts playing like a $20M QB that pulls up the play of others or he is going to find himself on the bench by halftime.
And then he is going to find himself out of a roster spot next season...
I think you're on to something.
Ben came over with an idealistic vision of duplicating Packers "culture" and playbook but got stuck on Packers personnel. Eli is not Rogers. Yet he never found a way to utilize a FB; instead, like a broken record, repeating the same old 11 formation; even when he got legitimate FBs and multiple TEs.
He may have FB smarts, but his role may be a perpetual OC just like Spags may end his career as a DC.
Quote:
right now if I had to win a game Sunday? More than half of them.
So Eli is a top 10 QB in the league right now? That simply just isn’t true.
You're not correct. Go away.
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
IMO, that's simply not true. He didn't play well last week. He didn't play well versus the Chargers. He's had 2 good games and another in which he did exactly what was needed of him however little that was (DEN). In the other games, I'll give him a pass. That's not a good ratio through 8 games.
You wanna say if they had 22 players preparing like Eli or giving effort like Eli that they'd be much better, I agree. But his on the field performance is as much a part of the problem as anyone else. I love Eli, but failure to acknowledge the role his play has in this is the sign of a fanboy.
This may come as a shock to you, but every qb misses open receivers and gasp some passes even miss high. What is missing in this offense is opportunity. We are near the bottom of the league in yards per attempt and in 20+ yard completions.
You see a miss on the one or two deep passes we try all game and conclude "Eli is missing deep passes", never mind that other qb's are getting 4 or 5 chances a game on a deep throw. We've had 3 40+ yard completions- 1 more than such luminaries and part-time players as Hogan, Semien and Trubisky. When Kizer and McCown have more 20+ yard completions than Eli Manning and when Eli is at a historic low in yards/attempt while maintaining a completion pct, the problem lies elsewhere.
It's a bad offense and has been since McAdoo was given sole control over it. That falls squarely on the supposedly offensively-minded coach.
Yup!
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson
4. Smith
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr
8. Wilson
9. Mariota
10. Winston
11. Ryan
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
Sadly, I basically agree with this list...
I'm not saying in a McAdoo vs. Eli match I'm taking the coach's side. I'm just saying, Eli has had some issues the last couple of years - he's one of the highest paid players in the league, clearly the highest paid player on the Giants, and as the leader of the offense is failing to get things done on the field. He should not be immune to criticism.
Furthermore, as a guy who has pelts on the wall the best thing he can do as a leader is accept that his game needs to improve. It's what he says to the media in his sessions as well. He's still working on his craft - apparently still one of if not the hardest worker on the team.
The comments McAdoo made earlier are much more innocuous than many fans have made them out to be.
Eli entered the league in 2004.
Those of us who are old timers recognise the pro game has changed AT LEAST every 10 years. If we could continue to play the 2005 season, Eli would possibly continue to be great. BUT IT IS A DIFFERENT GAME in 2017, and Eli didn't get any younger.
Not only did the pace of the 60 min game increase (e.g. from college to pro) but the rate of improvement of teams has also changed (LA and McVay for example).
The NYG need to catch up.
Quote:
In comment 13685201 arniefez said:
Quote:
right now if I had to win a game Sunday? More than half of them.
So Eli is a top 10 QB in the league right now? That simply just isn’t true.
You're not correct. Go away.
It sucks that our guy is in decline, but it’s true. Top 10 QB’s elevate their team, Eli can’t do that anymore.
Quote:
In comment 13685332 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize we’re talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
Over the course of this season Eli is definitely better than Rodgers because Rodgers is done for the year.
If you’re talking long-term, it’s more of a debate than you think. Rodgers will be 35 and looks about as durable as Romo at this point.
Quote:
In comment 13685382 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13685332 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685187 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13684923 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684794 arniefez said:
Quote:
and he's no longer one of the top 5 QBs in he NFL, still in the top half at least though. The issue I have with McAdoo is that he been dumping on Eli for over a year and only on Eli. If the Giants had 22 starters playing at Eli's level they'd be one of the best teams in the NFL.
No order:
1. Brees
2. Brady
3. Watson — 8 games and a torn ACL
4. Smith — another annual half season wonder who gets ranked ahead of Eli without merit
5. Rodgers
6. Wentz
7. Carr — what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?
8. Wilson — you must not watch him play very often
9. Mariota — this one is just naming names for the hell of it
10. Winston — overrated with a jacked up shoulder
11. Ryan — back to his mediocre ways in ‘17
12. Cousins
13. Goff
14. Ben
15. Stafford
So at best Eli is 16th. And that's not counting that guys like McCown are out playing him.
You wouldn’t have take a healthy Winston or Watson over current Eli? And say what you want Alex Smith is a better fit this system than Eli
Your list is trash. Ben has been mediocre all year and it was only a few weeks ago he was saying woe is me after a 5 INT game.
Cousins has been solid but not definitely Better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?
Winston just isn’t good enough. Decent fantasy stats I guess.
I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year? Same deal with Rodgers — how can you say he’s better when he’s done for the year?
Because Aaron Rodgers is a better QB? You realize we’re talking about over the course of a season not tommorow? The Eli cult is amazing.
Over the course of this season Eli is definitely better than Rodgers because Rodgers is done for the year.
If you’re talking long-term, it’s more of a debate than you think. Rodgers will be 35 and looks about as durable as Romo at this point.
You’re really missing the point. But sure, I’ll play along Eli might be a top 10 QB if a bunch of guys are hurt.
My favorite. "How can you say Rodgers is better than Eli when he has been hurt this year?" Wow. In just 4 games this year, Rodgers vastly outplayed Eli Manning. Not even remotely close. Followed up with "it may be closer than you think, Rodgers is 35..." No, it is not close at all. Look how terrible the Packers are without him. That is what great QBs do, they elevate everyone around them. Eli does not do that at all at this stage of his career.
"Wilson - you must not watch him play very often" - Are people going to really try and argue that Eli is better than Wilson? He has a bad offensive line too but creates plays and yes, has been much better than Eli for years now.
"Ben has been mediocre all year and was all woe is me after a 5 INT game" - Eli has been worse than mediocre. Ben is in decline too, but is still better than Eli, and has been their entire careers. Do not bring character into this argument please. I am talking strictly on the field play.
"Ryan - back to his mediocre ways in 2017." Ryan has been a top ten QB for many years. Do you people watch games besides the Giants?
"Cousins has been solid but not definitely better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?" In what world has Eli been better than Cousins? It is not just 2 throws, he has been better for a couple years now.
"Carr- what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?" Christ, the guy broke his back. He was an MVP candidate last year.
Same thing with Watson. "I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year?" So you think Eli being another year older will close the gap on Watson?
Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.
I will take it a step further than ajr's list. Eli has been a bottom third QB since the start of 2016. He gets paid like a top 10 QB but plays like Jay Cutler. The Giants won in spite of Eli last year. Even his credited 4th quarter come backs were just them taking the lead early in the 4th quarter and the defense suffocating the other team to hold the lead. Take the blinders off people, he just is not good anymore, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every QB can play until they are 40.
The NYG need to catch up.
The rate of improvement (and regression) for teams has basically been stale since 2000. Each year there is about a 50% turnover in the playoff teams from the previous year. If the season ended right now, 8 teams out of the 12 would be new playoff teams.
Saying LA and McVay are somehow ahead of the NFL curve is simply not true and basically can't be supported until we see what they do next year.
I'll post what I've posted numerous times - the Carolina Panthers have never had back to back winning seasons in their history. That includes two SB trips and two conference championship game seasons. Teams fall. And rise. All the time.
My favorite. "How can you say Rodgers is better than Eli when he has been hurt this year?" Wow. In just 4 games this year, Rodgers vastly outplayed Eli Manning. Not even remotely close. Followed up with "it may be closer than you think, Rodgers is 35..." No, it is not close at all. Look how terrible the Packers are without him. That is what great QBs do, they elevate everyone around them. Eli does not do that at all at this stage of his career.
"Wilson - you must not watch him play very often" - Are people going to really try and argue that Eli is better than Wilson? He has a bad offensive line too but creates plays and yes, has been much better than Eli for years now.
"Ben has been mediocre all year and was all woe is me after a 5 INT game" - Eli has been worse than mediocre. Ben is in decline too, but is still better than Eli, and has been their entire careers. Do not bring character into this argument please. I am talking strictly on the field play.
"Ryan - back to his mediocre ways in 2017." Ryan has been a top ten QB for many years. Do you people watch games besides the Giants?
"Cousins has been solid but not definitely better than Eli. He makes two throws vs Seattle and now he’s a stud?" In what world has Eli been better than Cousins? It is not just 2 throws, he has been better for a couple years now.
"Carr- what has he done this year to justify a higher ranking?" Christ, the guy broke his back. He was an MVP candidate last year.
Same thing with Watson. "I’d take a healthy Watson over Eli but that’s the rub, he isn’t healthy. And will he have the same mobility coming off an ACL next year?" So you think Eli being another year older will close the gap on Watson?
Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.
I will take it a step further than ajr's list. Eli has been a bottom third QB since the start of 2016. He gets paid like a top 10 QB but plays like Jay Cutler. The Giants won in spite of Eli last year. Even his credited 4th quarter come backs were just them taking the lead early in the 4th quarter and the defense suffocating the other team to hold the lead. Take the blinders off people, he just is not good anymore, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not every QB can play until they are 40.
You feel better now? What a nincompoop...go root for the Eagles...
Just ridiculous excuses all over the place. Eli in his prime threw a great intermediate/deep ball, had mobility IN the pocket, was extremely clutch, and made the people around him better. He does not do any of those things well anymore. So people will just continue to lay blame on the o-line or the receivers or the scheme.
Of course the scheme is going to get blamed. It is the one that can't put up more than 20 points in a game and has as many deep attempts as JPP has fingers.
Equally absurd are the comments acting as if this would be a much better offense under other QB's as well as this weird stance that several posters have taken where the blame Eli for the WR's getting injured, and I'm not even talking about that cuntmonkey EliteMobster in that group.
Manning has an eroding skillset and has played very poorly. Macadoo is in way over his head and coaching like shit.
Crazy, right?
You feel better now? What a nincompoop...go root for the Eagles...
Lol, so now I am a bad fan because I don't think Eli is above criticism and don't place all of the blame for his poor play on others?
I agree McAdoo sucks. I want him gone along with Reese and Ross. I also don't see the point in doing a full rebuild with a 37 year old declining, overpaid QB.
Oh and fuck the Eagles
Top 10 QBs in the league don’t need ideal circumstances to elevate the team to wins.
Quote:
In my mind that if the O-Line was better, Eli would be playing better too. It's been known for years that he needs decent protection and this year it's ranged from bad to awful. So whose fault is that? Eli's or the front office that put that shitty line on the field?
Top 10 QBs in the league don’t need ideal circumstances to elevate the team to wins.
I never said Eli was top 10 or that he needed "ideal" circumstances. He just needs an o-line that doesn't suck.
Like " Seattle's OL is as bad as the Giants"...
Pure poppycock...
Another one of my favs:
"Brady took less money for the good of the team"