Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Giants’ terrible season has surprised Phil Simms

Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/10/2017 9:47 am
Bob Glauber article from Newsday...
Giants’ terrible season has surprised Phil Simms - ( New Window )
It has surprised us all  
EddieNYG : 11/10/2017 9:49 am : link
Injuries or not, I don't think any of us saw a 1-7 start coming.
This is one of the most troubling things.  
rocco8112 : 11/10/2017 9:51 am : link
Reese, McAdoo and all thought this was a super bowl caliber team. It is one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Both need to go.
RE: It has surprised us all  
rocco8112 : 11/10/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13684670 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
Injuries or not, I don't think any of us saw a 1-7 start coming.


I was sold on the D. It turned into a pumpkin after the hall mary in last year's playoffs.

I admit I thought the D was legit.
I'm surprised but not shocked  
averagejoe : 11/10/2017 10:08 am : link
I thought last year Giants were the worst 11 win team I have ever seen. The defense was forcing turnovers and making crucial stops to barely win games against weak teams. There was NO offense at all. I had very serious doubts about McAdoo coming into this season. His offense has been a disaster. I seriously believe he thinks the object is to NOT score. His laughable offensive philosophy put way too much pressure on the defense and allowed no margin for error. Predictably, the defense has collapsed as our highly paid DE's produce no pressure and our secondary has been confused and exposed.

A real shit show with the only benefit being there is no way Reese and McAdoo survive.
RE: RE: It has surprised us all  
lecky : 11/10/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13684681 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684670 EddieNYG said:


Quote:


Injuries or not, I don't think any of us saw a 1-7 start coming.



I was sold on the D. It turned into a pumpkin after the hall mary in last year's playoffs.

I admit I thought the D was legit.


Good point, they gave up 38 points in the last 31 minutes in that game.
1-7 surprised everyone  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:26 am : link
considering how good our defense was supposed to be on paper.

But I have it on good sources that Parcells... and lots of other great football minds... thought this team was badly overhyped in preseason due to a truly pathetic offensive line.

Reese seems to think this is fantasy football and the trenches don't matter. It should cost him his job.
RE: 1-7 surprised everyone  
BrettNYG10 : 11/10/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13684746 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
considering how good our defense was supposed to be on paper.

But I have it on good sources that Parcells... and lots of other great football minds... thought this team was badly overhyped in preseason due to a truly pathetic offensive line.

Reese seems to think this is fantasy football and the trenches don't matter. It should cost him his job.


After the first three games, I don't think the OL has been the issue.
BUT  
jvm52106 : 11/10/2017 10:31 am : link
the problem was we expected too much of the D. The Ravens of 2000 carried their team but what did the Ravens have that year that helped the D? They had a big Oline and a strong running game with Lewis at the TB. The ate some clock and kept the defense somewhat rested.

Our offense actually plays into why our defense struggles. We ahve to be lights out and have to actual take the ball away and possibly even score with it to have any chance. Or Offense does not eat clock, allowing the defense to continually attack. Our offense turns the ball over. Our Offense goes 3 and out quickly. That means the defense has to adjust some and be careful not to be too aggressive because one quick score could kill you with our offense's inability to score!

To me it all starts with the offense and nothing else is a 1-1 easy read. The defense isn't what it was but that is probably a bi-product of the shit play on offense. Everything works together in football..

This team reminds me of the 96 team with Reeves or 92 with Handley. A new coach with a different mindset could turn this team around to division winner pretty quickly..
Ravens D  
jvm52106 : 11/10/2017 10:31 am : link
of 2000
sure it has, Brett  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:32 am : link
there's plenty of faults with this team, not just one, but the line is not good. We're still bottom 5 in the league in rushing, for starters.
RE: sure it has, Brett  
BrettNYG10 : 11/10/2017 10:35 am : link
In comment 13684756 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
there's plenty of faults with this team, not just one, but the line is not good. We're still bottom 5 in the league in rushing, for starters.


We didn't lose against the Eagles/Chargers/Bucs because of it. The OL was good enough for wins there. Still a weak point, but not bad enough to drag the team down. I think the defense being average to bad in those games was the much bigger issue.
Agree  
lugnut : 11/10/2017 10:35 am : link
OL has actually improved a little; it's not our worst problem. That would be the whole D. Is an OL supposed to pave the way for 52 points?
RE: Agree  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13684765 lugnut said:
Quote:
OL has actually improved a little; it's not our worst problem. That would be the whole D. Is an OL supposed to pave the way for 52 points?


You are referring to one game with the season already long lost. I don't know why BBI speaks in absolutes - of course when you are 1-7 its not just one areas fault... its a team wide fail.

The point Parcells in preseason was making is it didn't matter that we brought in the new weapons - Marshall, Engram - the line wasn't good enough to establish a run game or give Eli enough protection so that some of the longer routes could work. So he didn't think this was a playoff team. That's all.

Also didn't help that the Eagles kicked a 61 yarder to win a game... and the Bucs who haven't had a competent field goal kicker in 4 years... nailed one to end that game too.

-Bad oline
-underachieving defense
-dropped passes
-Eli getting older
-bad coaching
-horrible drafting
-bad luck

Lots of reasons this team is looking at a top 3 draft pick in the spring.

Lots of factors.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/10/2017 10:48 am : link
McAdoo exacerbated the OL issue by putting the wrong guys on the field to start the year - his playcalling made matters even worse because it exposed that mistake tenfold.

I really don't think the OL would have been a major issue if they had identified the correct configuration over the summer. But they didn't.

I'd argue the major reasons the Giants are losing games now are...

1. A major lack of offensive talent post-injuries
2. The defense has completely regressed

Add in that ST's have been bad, Eli hasn't played well, and the coach has totally lost half the team and you get this shit salad.
Well,  
Doomster : 11/10/2017 10:57 am : link
“It’s hard to pinpoint one area, but when the strength of your team isn’t the strength of your team, you’re usually in trouble for the year,” he said. “For the Giants, I thought their defense was going to be one of the top two or three in the NFL, and it just got derailed. There are many reasons, but when that unit struggles, it magnifies everything.

Without a doubt, the defense was considered the strength of this team, based on how the offense played last season....We won a lot of close games, mainly because last season, the defense could hold a lead in the fourth quarter, unlike previous seasons....we struck lightning in a bottle with our defensive free agents......Someone posted, before the season started, that this defense could take a step backwards(forgot his name), and many disagreed with him.....but teams had film on this defense.....this defense had weaknesses last year, at linebacker and free safety, that they didn't exploit......but they did exploit it this year, right from the opening game, as did other teams afterwards....Apple was a weak link....the free safety position was still weak....DRC was another year older.....our linebackers were worse this year....and our DE's were a huge disappointment.......like Phil said, when your strength is no longer your strength, you are in trouble.....



“It never really got to where Ray Handley lost our team,” Simms said of the former coach, who was 8-8 in 1991 and went 6-10 the following year. “If Ray could have survived, we would have changed, and he could have turned us around. I liked Ray. I thought he had a lot of good thoughts.

Phil, tell it like it is....I know you don't want to bad mouth a former coach, even if he benched you...fact is, Handley never got a job at any level in the NFL after his firing, for a reason.....



At 1-7, there is virtually no hope of a playoff berth, even if McAdoo suggested Wednesday that the team is capable of going on a run. That’s just a desperate coach willing to say anything to get his team out of the mess that is threatening his job.

A run? I suppose beating a winless team could theoretically be the start of a run.....but the Chiefs the following week puts an end to that....





“This is what you grew up wanting to do. You play because this is what you love,” he said. “There’s nothing like being on a bad team that ruins a season for a great team. It’s great joy. In about four weeks, they have nothing to play for, and then they upset a playoff-bound team.”

Simms speaks from firsthand experience. In his second NFL season in 1980, the Giants were 1-8 heading into a game against the 7-2 Cowboys. Simms had one of the best games of his career in throwing for 351 yards and three touchdowns in a 38-35 upset win at Giants Stadium.

“If we can’t win it, we’re going to ruin it for another team,” he said. “That’s a motivation in and of itself.”

Sadly for McAdoo’s Giants, that’s about all that’s left to a lost season.

It's called pride.....what I saw on the field against the Rams, showed no pride at all....at home after a bye? Easy TD's......the 3rd and 33 said it all, and it was only 10-7 with 9 minutes left in the half, but that broke the camel's back......some of the guys on defense, just went through the motions from that point on.....
RE: It has surprised us all  
djstat : 11/10/2017 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13684670 EddieNYG said:
Quote:
Injuries or not, I don't think any of us saw a 1-7 start coming.
Agreed. We looked awful week 1. Then it stayed awful...that was before injuries.
RE: 1-7 surprised everyone  
djstat : 11/10/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13684746 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
considering how good our defense was supposed to be on paper.

But I have it on good sources that Parcells... and lots of other great football minds... thought this team was badly overhyped in preseason due to a truly pathetic offensive line.

Reese seems to think this is fantasy football and the trenches don't matter. It should cost him his job.
The game starts and ends with the O-Line.
RE: sure it has, Brett  
GiantGrit : 11/10/2017 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13684756 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
there's plenty of faults with this team, not just one, but the line is not good. We're still bottom 5 in the league in rushing, for starters.



But when they start performing well, and we run effectively, we only pass the ball. Is that on the O-line?
And yet early in the year  
joeinpa : 11/10/2017 5:41 pm : link
Phil ominously suggested that poor offensive line play is just about impossible to overcome.

Jerry Reese blew it.
RE: 1-7 surprised everyone  
gmenatlarge : 11/10/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13684746 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
considering how good our defense was supposed to be on paper.

But I have it on good sources that Parcells... and lots of other great football minds... thought this team was badly overhyped in preseason due to a truly pathetic offensive line.

Reese seems to think this is fantasy football and the trenches don't matter. It should cost him his job.


Absolutely the O-line has turned the offense into a joke, unable to run and pass for more than 3 yards at a clip. This in turn exposed a D with some flaws- weak pass rush and no LB,s. Those that think it hasn't been a problem are falling into the JR trap that this line isn't really that bad, let me tell you...it is!
Eli Apple almost single handedly lost the Eagles game with ugly  
Reese's Pieces : 11/12/2017 4:52 am : link
PI calls of 41 and 36 yards on Eagle touchdown drives.

Last season Vernon and JPP had only 5.5 sacks combined for the whole first half of the season. The Giants blitzed defensive backs effectively to get pressure. I guess it might be hard to get away with that two seasons in a row.

Then in games 9-12 the sacks started coming. A lot of them against Cleveland, but Vernon had two against the Steelers. Then JPP misses the last four games and Vernon has one half sack total in those games.

If those two weren't fat and lazy with their long term contracts coming into this season, they're certainly not going to turn it on now.

I was one of the biggest boosters of signing JPP. I knew that there was a risk, but I thought it had to be taken. Dammit, he was disruptive last season. Eight passes batted away at the line. He's always been good at that in his career. This year, zero.

We were warned about Vernon's low sack numbers, but he was young and improving and opposite JPP they couldn't double both.

Anyone who foresaw what a bad idea it was to sign these two free agents deserves a lot of credit. Better to go for young and hungry.
Jerry Reese has consistently overestimated the talent on this team.  
Sarcastic Sam : 11/12/2017 9:22 am : link
The countdown clock in 2013.

Telling the media that the defense will surprise in 2015.

And thinking that we would be any better than truly pathetic in 2017.
Didn’t say much...  
trueblueinpw : 11/12/2017 10:37 am : link
These former players have it good. They’re sought out for their opinions based on their experience playing in the league. Experience establishes they’re experts that know more than even the most astute fans or reporters we read with interest. But then they have an interview where they don’t really say anything at all. I guess because they aren’t in the know with the current team or they don’t want to offend anyone.

The defense has been the problem? Well, no one in their right mind would say anything else. But, the offense has been the problem too. And special teams have been bad. And guys aren’t showing up to practice and are leaving the field during games and making business decisions instead of tackles. There’s enough wrong with the Giants and yet Simms can’t say anything more insightful than the defense let them down?

Ok, Simms doesn’t want to cause any trouble for the Giants - fine - that’s nice. But he could tell us what it was like back in the day when he went from a great coach to a lousy coach who was clearly not up to the task. But no, Simms gives us a few lines that sound as if he’s still playing for the one one who shall not be named. Am I really supposed to believe that his former coach “had some good ideas” and never lost the locker room?

Back to the Corner