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Fantasy Football thread - 11-10-2017

pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 10:31 am
Trade question.

I normally never give a shit about trades, and I'm the last one to ever even give them a second thought. two teams agree, one of them is usually going to come out ahead, and I leave it at that.

this one has our league abuzz.

Father and son making the trade with each other to complicate things.

this is a keeper league, we keep 2.

Team A (out of contention, tanking, trading any of their remaining valuable players for draft picks or keeper caliber players, etc. happens every year).

Sends Todd Gurley and 14th round pick to team B

Team B (In contention)

Sends Zeke Elliott and a 7th round pick to team A

the picks are largely irrelevant, in a keeper league with two keepers 7th round picks are like 9th round picks and have the success rate of shooting darts at a dart board.

the problem is Team A is so bad they'll likely get the first pick in the draft meaning they wouldn't even need to keep Elliott if that was their motivation for making the trade, since they can just redraft him. The trade serves no purpose other than to make team b better. If team A got a meaningful pick like top 4 rounds or a player that you might not draft in round 1 but would keep (like Alvin Kamara for example - who one guys has right now as a 16th round keeper) then it would make sense.

I won't veto it or make a big deal out of it, but man it stinks to me.



Would you have a problem with this trade?
It's the leagues fault  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:33 am : link
for having a trade deadline so late in the season. Your trade deadline should have been mid to late October.

The trade itself, is fair.
I'm confused.  
Keith : 11/10/2017 10:35 am : link
So the team that traded for Elliot can just not keep him and then pick him first. If they did keep him, they then lose that pick and they are guaranteed the 1st pick?
i deleted my thead so i will ask my question here  
superspynyg : 11/10/2017 10:37 am : link
2 part question
So Seattle lost Sherman for the year and is getting pretty banged up. I have the Seattle Def. Should I add a second defense or roll with Seattle? The Eagles Def is available. A friend in my league just picked up the Rams def. He has Baltimore on a bye and might drop the Rams Def after this week. Should I wait and see if he drops them?

Seattle def after 10 weeks (with bye played) 109 points.
Philly def on bye this week has 107 points
Rams def (had bye already) has 120 and still plays this week.

The Batlimore Def has 144 point which makes me believe he will keep Baltimore and drop Rams.

2nd part
If I do pick up Philly this week, who to drop? Alex Collins or Alfred Morris? I picked Morris up to stop someone who has Elliott. Morris is the first back in Dallas. Not sure the use though.

Non ppr
and obviously Team B would keep Elliott  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:38 am : link
so i'm thoroughly confused why he'd be there anyway.

Keeper leagues in fantasy football are stupid by the way.
RE: I'm confused.  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13684761 Keith said:
Quote:
So the team that traded for Elliot can just not keep him and then pick him first. If they did keep him, they then lose that pick and they are guaranteed the 1st pick?


So our draft order is reverse standings (which some people are pushing to change - me included - but that's another topic).

So he has a roster of players and he can keep any of them, but loses the draft round they were drafted in if he keeps them.

This year I kept Jordan Howard in the 8th round and Michael Thomas in the 11th, for example.

Team B had drafted Zeke in the 1st round, and trade him to team A. So team A can in fact keep Elliott and lose his 1st round pick if he does.

However, if you have the 1st pick in the draft it makes zero sense to keep a player that costs you your 1st round pick.

You keep two other players and use your 1st round pick to re-draft that player (or any other player).

Make sense?
Every league is different  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:40 am : link
Seattle will still have a good D, but off the top of my head they will face some tough offenses in coming weeks - Philly, Dallas, Atlanta... so not an every week Defense.

Wouldn't trade RBs with upside for a 2nd one though. You can usually find a good streamer week of if need be.
RE: RE: I'm confused.  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13684771 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684761 Keith said:


Quote:


So the team that traded for Elliot can just not keep him and then pick him first. If they did keep him, they then lose that pick and they are guaranteed the 1st pick?



So our draft order is reverse standings (which some people are pushing to change - me included - but that's another topic).

So he has a roster of players and he can keep any of them, but loses the draft round they were drafted in if he keeps them.

This year I kept Jordan Howard in the 8th round and Michael Thomas in the 11th, for example.

Team B had drafted Zeke in the 1st round, and trade him to team A. So team A can in fact keep Elliott and lose his 1st round pick if he does.

However, if you have the 1st pick in the draft it makes zero sense to keep a player that costs you your 1st round pick.

You keep two other players and use your 1st round pick to re-draft that player (or any other player).

Make sense?


should reiterate he can keep any of the players (up to a maximum of 2)
Defenses are all about matchups:  
Keith : 11/10/2017 10:40 am : link
Very few defenses are must starts each and every week. I think Seattle is still one of those teams, but they do drop off a little bit. That being said, heres the remaining matchups:

ATL at home -Good matchup
@ SF- Great matchup
Phi - eh
@Jax - good matchup(playoffs)
Rams at home - good matchup(playoffs)
@ Dallas- bad matchup(playoffs)

I think I'd save the roster spot and roll with Seattle til that Dallas game.
what round was Gurley drafted in?  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:42 am : link
Somebody drafted Zeke in the first with all the legal stuff ongoing?

I suppose its unfair but the league really screwed up having the deadline so late in the year. Playoffs are in two weeks.
3 weeks, sorry  
MetsAreBack : 11/10/2017 10:42 am : link
.
pj,  
Keith : 11/10/2017 10:42 am : link
it makes sense, but team A can argue that there is no guarantee he'd get Elliot(season has to unfold and he has to hope you don't change the draft rule) and you can definitely argue that having Elliot is a big advantage. Tough situation, but there are holes.
RE: what round was Gurley drafted in?  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13684779 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
Somebody drafted Zeke in the first with all the legal stuff ongoing?

I suppose its unfair but the league really screwed up having the deadline so late in the year. Playoffs are in two weeks.


Yeah, I had the third pick and took Mike Evans, the guy after me took Gurley with the 4th pick, at the time he was suspended, but the guy is a Cowboys fan and didn't care, figured worst case he'd keep Elliott (forever in our league).

Gurley was a 2nd round pick.

The trade deadline is the Yahoo default trade deadline, in 3 leagues I'm in, this is the deadline for all of them.

One league they want to get rid of a trade deadline completely. If you have a FAAB you could do well coaxing people to trade with you once the use up their budget.
To me, it's simple.  
Keith : 11/10/2017 10:46 am : link
1. Value wise, it's fair.

2. Team A can make the case that having Elliot next year is a huge advantage and without this trade, he wouldn't be able to get Elliot(whether his father kept Elliot or he didn't get the first pick).
RE: Every league is different  
superspynyg : 11/10/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13684773 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
Seattle will still have a good D, but off the top of my head they will face some tough offenses in coming weeks - Philly, Dallas, Atlanta... so not an every week Defense.

Wouldn't trade RBs with upside for a 2nd one though. You can usually find a good streamer week of if need be.


Does it matter that I have Hunt, Ajayi, and Hyde as my starter rbs and flex?
RE: pj,  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13684781 Keith said:
Quote:
it makes sense, but team A can argue that there is no guarantee he'd get Elliot(season has to unfold and he has to hope you don't change the draft rule) and you can definitely argue that having Elliot is a big advantage. Tough situation, but there are holes.


true, but if he doesn't get Elliott he'd be able to pick from Beckham, Julio Jones, David Johnson, or a few other "blue chip" players that will not be kept.

He's guaranteed a top 4 pick at this point based on his record, and since in the past week he has traded Russell Wilson, Doug Baldwin, and Todd Gurley for nobodies, he's more than likely going to get the top pick.

His RB's right now are Latavius Murray and Ty Montgomery, his WR's are Davante Adams and Chris Hogan.

His TE is Jordan Reed.

I am not going to make a big deal about the trade in the league like other guys are, but it is kind of bullshit trade. If you can't tell me how it at least helps your team I find the trade sketchy. The purpose of the trade shouldn't be to make the other team better. And the fact it's father and son makes it sketchier.
RE: To me, it's simple.  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13684791 Keith said:
Quote:
1. Value wise, it's fair.

2. Team A can make the case that having Elliot next year is a huge advantage and without this trade, he wouldn't be able to get Elliot(whether his father kept Elliot or he didn't get the first pick).


Exactly... if team A doesn't make the trade, Team B likely keeps Elliott with his late 1st round pick and thus team A doesn't have Elliott as an option with the presumable #1 overall pick. By trading for and not keeping Elliott, team A ensures that Elliott is there to pick at 1 overall.
pj,  
Keith : 11/10/2017 10:52 am : link
understood, but he can certainly argue that he wants Elliot and values Elliot more. You can't assume collusion here, IMO. Just because pj thinks he be better off drafting one of those other guys doesn't mean Team A thinks the same way. You can absolutely make a case that having Elliot next year makes this trade fair.

If I'm in that league, or the commissioner of that league,  
Keith : 11/10/2017 10:53 am : link
it definitely raises my eyebrow. I definitely question it and require Team A to state his case as to why he made the trade. If he says he wanted to ensure getting Elliot next year, you can't veto it.
RE: RE: To me, it's simple.  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13684801 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684791 Keith said:


Quote:


1. Value wise, it's fair.

2. Team A can make the case that having Elliot next year is a huge advantage and without this trade, he wouldn't be able to get Elliot(whether his father kept Elliot or he didn't get the first pick).



Exactly... if team A doesn't make the trade, Team B likely keeps Elliott with his late 1st round pick and thus team A doesn't have Elliott as an option with the presumable #1 overall pick. By trading for and not keeping Elliott, team A ensures that Elliott is there to pick at 1 overall.


yes, at that point it's personal preference, but it could be that he was better off keeping Gurley (who has been better in my league than Elliott) in the 2nd and another player from his roster and using the #1 pick on Beckham or David Johnson, etc.

I wouldn't veto the trade, but it's not a good trade IMO
the other thing with the draft picks  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 10:57 am : link
is that when you lose picks, that 7th rounder is still like a 7th rounder in a normal redraft. There won't be that many players kept later than the 7th round to really have an impact on the board at that point.

The only counterargument I could see is that Team A could do the same thing with Gurley - ie not keep him and then draft him at 1 overall. I could easily argue that Gurley + 14.12 is not as valuable as Elliott + 7.12 though so I'm not sure what the reason to veto this deal is based on the keeper rules.
pj,  
Keith : 11/10/2017 11:00 am : link
I wouldn't do that trade either. I think it's a bad trade for the son too, but unless there is something else that you aren't telling us, you can't veto it. Value wise, its fair and team A can make a fair argument as to why they would do it.
RE: RE: RE: To me, it's simple.  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13684809 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684801 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


In comment 13684791 Keith said:


Quote:


1. Value wise, it's fair.

2. Team A can make the case that having Elliot next year is a huge advantage and without this trade, he wouldn't be able to get Elliot(whether his father kept Elliot or he didn't get the first pick).



Exactly... if team A doesn't make the trade, Team B likely keeps Elliott with his late 1st round pick and thus team A doesn't have Elliott as an option with the presumable #1 overall pick. By trading for and not keeping Elliott, team A ensures that Elliott is there to pick at 1 overall.



yes, at that point it's personal preference, but it could be that he was better off keeping Gurley (who has been better in my league than Elliott) in the 2nd and another player from his roster and using the #1 pick on Beckham or David Johnson, etc.

I wouldn't veto the trade, but it's not a good trade IMO


hmm, in that light I'd rather keep Gurley at 2.12 and then draft OBJ/DJ at 1.1 (assuming they aren't kept). Still wouldn't veto the trade, though that definitely swings it in team B's favor to me - especially since they can keep Gurley at 2.1 then (assuming they get the last pick of course).
Good pt about the pick YAJ.  
Keith : 11/10/2017 11:03 am : link
That 7th rounder is still a 7th rounder. Theres some value in a 7th rounder. If the father threw the kid a 3rd or 4th rounder, it probably looks a lot better.

In another league, in situations like this, the commissioner will make them alter the trade to go through. For example, he might say to the father and son.....the whole league has a problem with this trade and feels like the father is taking advantage of the kid. Make the draft pick a 4th rounder or we have to reject it.
Big Ben vs IND or Tyrod vs NO?  
Heisenberg : 11/10/2017 11:10 am : link
I'm leaning toward Ben, but Tryod has been a more dependable starter this year.
7th round picks have value  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 11:13 am : link
but no, they're not like a 7th round pick in a re-draft. Because it's a 12-team keeper league and every team has to keep 2 players, it really makes the 7th round like a normal 9th round (darts on a dart board).

Here is our 7th round from last year:
Willie Snead
Eli Manning
Andrew Luck
Darren McFadden
Stefon Diggs
Spencer Ware
Jordy Nelson (keeper)
Delanie Walker
Emmanuel Sanders
Kirk Cousins
Pierre Garcon
Adrian Peterson

maybe 3 of the 12 have had an impact including Nelson who was a keeper (a guy drafted him in the 14th round when he tore his ACL in August 2015 and kept him rostered all year to get him for a 14th in 2016 and a 7th in 2017).

RE: 7th round picks have value  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13684832 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but no, they're not like a 7th round pick in a re-draft. Because it's a 12-team keeper league and every team has to keep 2 players, it really makes the 7th round like a normal 9th round (darts on a dart board).

Here is our 7th round from last year:
Willie Snead
Eli Manning
Andrew Luck
Darren McFadden
Stefon Diggs
Spencer Ware
Jordy Nelson (keeper)
Delanie Walker
Emmanuel Sanders
Kirk Cousins
Pierre Garcon
Adrian Peterson

maybe 3 of the 12 have had an impact including Nelson who was a keeper (a guy drafted him in the 14th round when he tore his ACL in August 2015 and kept him rostered all year to get him for a 14th in 2016 and a 7th in 2017).


Impact or not, that's not dissimilar to a non-keeper league 7th round. From the BBI league draft:

Jeremy Maclin
Brandon Marshall
Paul Perkins
Terrance West
Pierre Garcon
Emmanuel Sanders
Stefon Diggs
Eric Decker
Rob Kelley
Chris Hogan
Mike Gillislee
Frank Gore

Lot of the same players, and some were taken in yours that were already gone in the BBI draft (Delanie and AP)
Earily similar actually.  
Keith : 11/10/2017 11:24 am : link
I'd also argue that there are closer to 6 impact players.
Yeah, I guess  
pjcas18 : 11/10/2017 11:28 am : link
I'd still expect a higher draft pick.
..  
annexOPR : 11/10/2017 12:07 pm : link
fantasy football? time for my weekly draft kings lineup laced with half of whoever is playing this sorry as giants team

Goodwin, Celek, Hyde come on down!
RE: RE: 7th round picks have value  
arcarsenal : 11/10/2017 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13684842 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 13684832 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but no, they're not like a 7th round pick in a re-draft. Because it's a 12-team keeper league and every team has to keep 2 players, it really makes the 7th round like a normal 9th round (darts on a dart board).

Here is our 7th round from last year:
Willie Snead
Eli Manning
Andrew Luck
Darren McFadden
Stefon Diggs
Spencer Ware
Jordy Nelson (keeper)
Delanie Walker
Emmanuel Sanders
Kirk Cousins
Pierre Garcon
Adrian Peterson

maybe 3 of the 12 have had an impact including Nelson who was a keeper (a guy drafted him in the 14th round when he tore his ACL in August 2015 and kept him rostered all year to get him for a 14th in 2016 and a 7th in 2017).




Impact or not, that's not dissimilar to a non-keeper league 7th round. From the BBI league draft:

Jeremy Maclin
Brandon Marshall
Paul Perkins
Terrance West
Pierre Garcon
Emmanuel Sanders
Stefon Diggs
Eric Decker
Rob Kelley
Chris Hogan
Mike Gillislee
Frank Gore

Lot of the same players, and some were taken in yours that were already gone in the BBI draft (Delanie and AP)


TRIGGERED.

I had Diggs queued up and ready to draft and UConn snaked him from me the pick before.

My other major fuck up was choosing Tyrell Williams over Theilen. I already had Theilen in another league so I decided to hedge a bit. Either of those players would have helped quite a bit considering I've already dropped both of the players I took in their place (Decker, Williams)

Can't really complain too much, though. 7-2 and top dog in points I believe.
RE: RE: RE: 7th round picks have value  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13684995 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13684842 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


In comment 13684832 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but no, they're not like a 7th round pick in a re-draft. Because it's a 12-team keeper league and every team has to keep 2 players, it really makes the 7th round like a normal 9th round (darts on a dart board).

Here is our 7th round from last year:
Willie Snead
Eli Manning
Andrew Luck
Darren McFadden
Stefon Diggs
Spencer Ware
Jordy Nelson (keeper)
Delanie Walker
Emmanuel Sanders
Kirk Cousins
Pierre Garcon
Adrian Peterson

maybe 3 of the 12 have had an impact including Nelson who was a keeper (a guy drafted him in the 14th round when he tore his ACL in August 2015 and kept him rostered all year to get him for a 14th in 2016 and a 7th in 2017).




Impact or not, that's not dissimilar to a non-keeper league 7th round. From the BBI league draft:

Jeremy Maclin
Brandon Marshall
Paul Perkins
Terrance West
Pierre Garcon
Emmanuel Sanders
Stefon Diggs
Eric Decker
Rob Kelley
Chris Hogan
Mike Gillislee
Frank Gore

Lot of the same players, and some were taken in yours that were already gone in the BBI draft (Delanie and AP)



TRIGGERED.

I had Diggs queued up and ready to draft and UConn snaked him from me the pick before.

My other major fuck up was choosing Tyrell Williams over Theilen. I already had Theilen in another league so I decided to hedge a bit. Either of those players would have helped quite a bit considering I've already dropped both of the players I took in their place (Decker, Williams)

Can't really complain too much, though. 7-2 and top dog in points I believe.


By 3 points after a week when I was missing half my team to byes... should revert back after this week with Kelce/Hunt out for you.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/10/2017 1:08 pm : link
Would have stayed that way if I hadn't lost Watson.

Nevertheless, remember where that 1 loss came from, grasshopper!
RE: .  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13685007 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Would have stayed that way if I hadn't lost Watson.

Nevertheless, remember where that 1 loss came from, grasshopper!


That loss will be my team's motivation should we meet in the playoffs.
Need some advice:  
Danny Kanell : 11/10/2017 2:58 pm : link
Full PPR, pick 2 for this week:

Jordy Nelson
Devin Funchess
Chris Thompson

Thanks
RE: Need some advice:  
YAJ2112 : 11/10/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13685169 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Full PPR, pick 2 for this week:

Jordy Nelson
Devin Funchess
Chris Thompson

Thanks


My advice would be to root for injuries on the other team.

Nelson and Funchess I guess. Minnesota has been ridiculously stingy vs pass catching RBs.
PJ, one way to help with these issues is to change...  
EricJ : 11/10/2017 3:22 pm : link
how your keepers work the following year. In my only keeper league, you can keep any player but you have to give up a pick that is one round better than when he was drafted the prior year. If the player was drafted in the first round, then the following year you need to give up a 1st and a 6th rounder to keep him.

This does two things..
1. It keeps most of the top tier players in the mix for the draft.
2. Eventually, people stop keeping certain players if the cost to keep them the following year exceeds their value.
3 This trade would not have happened in your league if one of the teams had to give up MORE next year to keep Zeke.

Finally, you could implement a rule next year which prevent trades of players who are either suspended or on injured reserve.
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