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Eli had a better 1st Half of Season than Big Ben or Rivers

CromartiesKid21 : 11/11/2017 8:36 am
where are their head coaches hinting at QB changes? Where is all the media chatter they may be done?

Higher completion pct and fewer interceptions all on more attempts, more TD's thrown, if both receiving cores had the same YAC he'd have more passing yards, he has a higher passer rating, all with no run game, no o-line, a decimated receiving core, and a HC and OC that can't get their shit together and probably will be fired by the end of the year.
Stats never really tell the "while story  
micky : 11/11/2017 8:45 am : link
js
Except  
ajr2456 : 11/11/2017 8:45 am : link
The Steelers are a super bowl contender. Stats are misleading, Ben throws the ball downfield a lot more than Eli, which is going to lead to more INT.
Wins are all that matter  
superspynyg : 11/11/2017 8:47 am : link
Id rather have wins than top stats.
The shame of it is..if the losing continues he'll have  
Blue21 : 11/11/2017 8:53 am : link
a .500 or worse winning percentage when he retires.
RE: Except  
Big Rick in FL : 11/11/2017 9:01 am : link
In comment 13685656 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The Steelers are a super bowl contender. Stats are misleading, Ben throws the ball downfield a lot more than Eli, which is going to lead to more INT.


The Steelers aren't contenders because of Ben. He's been complete shit this year. They just have a really good defense. A good OL. The best RB in the NFL and his elite WR.
Eli  
Mark C : 11/11/2017 9:02 am : link
for Ben and a left tackle?
Both the Steelers and the Chargers....  
EricJ : 11/11/2017 9:03 am : link
also have a running game. Bell and Gordon are top RBs in the league. Meanwhile, Eli is forced to throw the ball over 40 times (it seems) per game.

In the end, how many wins do we have?
RE: RE: Except  
ajr2456 : 11/11/2017 9:06 am : link
In comment 13685664 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13685656 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


The Steelers are a super bowl contender. Stats are misleading, Ben throws the ball downfield a lot more than Eli, which is going to lead to more INT.



The Steelers aren't contenders because of Ben. He's been complete shit this year. They just have a really good defense. A good OL. The best RB in the NFL and his elite WR.


Doesnít matter, the point is nobody is going to scream bench the HOF qb who is playing fine on a Super Bowl contender
RE: Except  
Toth029 : 11/11/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13685656 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The Steelers are a super bowl contender. Stats are misleading, Ben throws the ball downfield a lot more than Eli, which is going to lead to more INT.

Ben dumps a lot off to Bell and on crossing patterns to Brown. He has been really bad despite this incredible talent around him. He gets excuses. Eli gets fried.
Put  
Toth029 : 11/11/2017 9:30 am : link
It this way.

Steelers would be undefeated right now if Ben hadn't looked like garbage. He didn't look good vs. the Browns in Week 1 and was fortunate he had a great defense saving his ass.
Eli has been okay..  
Sean : 11/11/2017 9:32 am : link
He isnít the problem, but heís not having an above average year.
RE: Eli has been okay..  
EricJ : 11/11/2017 9:39 am : link
In comment 13685695 Sean said:
Quote:
He isnít the problem, but heís not having an above average year.


Agree he is not the problem but we are not getting enough production for $20mm per year.

You have to wonder whether the offense would be doing better if we had a guy like McCown who makes a lot less than Eli, then spend the difference in the two salaries on a couple of solid O linemen. Improved running game, more time for the other QB to throw....
...  
christian : 11/11/2017 9:52 am : link
Try to be mildly intellectually honest about this just for fun; if the Giants had better coaching, a better defense, a better offensive line, and better running backs, Eli Manning would be playing better.

Now can't you say that about any quarterback, and can't you question the wisdom of investing $20M in that player.

And can't you question whether Eli Manning is actually doing much to make the defense's job easier, the line's job easier, the running back's job easier.

And whether at the current cost, maybe both factors could be solved with a different QB.
there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
PatersonPlank : 11/11/2017 10:07 am : link
All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?
RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
ajr2456 : 11/11/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?


Because stats donít tell the whole story. What type of throws are each making? Whatís the game flow? How good are the defenses?
RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
BigBlueShock : 11/11/2017 10:27 am : link
In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?

Your first statement is exactly why this discussion can never be had around here. Never in the history of Eli has anyone ever said that Eli is the only QB that makes mistakes. Ever. Thatís just made up. If anyone EVER comments in a negative light on Eliís performance there are two narratives that people love to respond with:

1. People think other QBs donít make mistakes
2. People keep blaming Eli for all of the teams problems

Both are completely made up bullshit. Itís ok to admit when Eli makes a bad throw or makes a boneheaded decision. Eli is a legend and I will always look at him as the greatest QB in Giants history. Heís provided us all with some of the greatest sports moments in our lives. And Iíve spent basically his entire career defending to the idiot non Giants fans who have always thought he was somehow overrated, which has always been mostly based on his draft day decision and his demeanor on the field. Heís been an easy target for people since heís been in the league and itís ludicrous.

But again, Iím not sure why some around here canít have the discussion of his slippage in performance over the past couple of years without accusing people of saying things that have never been said. And Ben and Rivers both struggling have absolutely nothing to do with that. You can bet your ass that if the Steelers were 1-7 and people were calling for Tomlins head, there would be just as much chatter about the QB as there is ours.

RE: RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
PatersonPlank : 11/11/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13685761 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?


Your first statement is exactly why this discussion can never be had around here. Never in the history of Eli has anyone ever said that Eli is the only QB that makes mistakes. Ever. Thatís just made up. If anyone EVER comments in a negative light on Eliís performance there are two narratives that people love to respond with:

1. People think other QBs donít make mistakes
2. People keep blaming Eli for all of the teams problems

Both are completely made up bullshit. Itís ok to admit when Eli makes a bad throw or makes a boneheaded decision. Eli is a legend and I will always look at him as the greatest QB in Giants history. Heís provided us all with some of the greatest sports moments in our lives. And Iíve spent basically his entire career defending to the idiot non Giants fans who have always thought he was somehow overrated, which has always been mostly based on his draft day decision and his demeanor on the field. Heís been an easy target for people since heís been in the league and itís ludicrous.

But again, Iím not sure why some around here canít have the discussion of his slippage in performance over the past couple of years without accusing people of saying things that have never been said. And Ben and Rivers both struggling have absolutely nothing to do with that. You can bet your ass that if the Steelers were 1-7 and people were calling for Tomlins head, there would be just as much chatter about the QB as there is ours.


The original post was about Eli having a better season than Big Ben and Rivers, so of course how those are doing this season is relevent. I would submit that your post shows how some people are so entrenched in their anti-Eli bias that they change the original intent of the thread to make their points.
...  
christian : 11/11/2017 10:58 am : link
So the point is Manning is having a statitiscally better season than 2 other majorly declining QBs.

Sweet.
RE: RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
Toth029 : 11/11/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13685742 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?



Because stats donít tell the whole story. What type of throws are each making? Whatís the game flow? How good are the defenses?

You're right.

Then there's: what field position is your defense giving you, what type of protection are you getting, what YAC do your receivers get, etc.

Ben has every advantage in the book and still has not been good. Good enough? Sure but the Steelers have a winning record w/out him since 2004. You can put most QB's in his sitution right now and they'll be more than fine.
RE: RE: RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
ajr2456 : 11/11/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13685794 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685742 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?



Because stats donít tell the whole story. What type of throws are each making? Whatís the game flow? How good are the defenses?


You're right.

Then there's: what field position is your defense giving you, what type of protection are you getting, what YAC do your receivers get, etc.

Ben has every advantage in the book and still has not been good. Good enough? Sure but the Steelers have a winning record w/out him since 2004. You can put most QB's in his sitution right now and they'll be more than fine.


At the end of the day his team his 6-2, heís been playing better of late. Nobody is going to be screaming to bench him cause theyíre winning. Iíd bet Pittsburgh knows they need a contingency plan ASAP though.
I take the point of this as being all three are/were great QB's  
PatersonPlank : 11/11/2017 11:02 am : link
all three are at the end of their careers, and all three are not what they were. However all three are starting and are still pretty good QB's in the league, and what we are seeing as a "decline" in Eli is also notable in the other two. In other words Eli isn't some outlier and is not likely as "bad" as some make him to be.
RE: RE: RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
BigBlueShock : 11/11/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13685779 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13685761 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?


Your first statement is exactly why this discussion can never be had around here. Never in the history of Eli has anyone ever said that Eli is the only QB that makes mistakes. Ever. Thatís just made up. If anyone EVER comments in a negative light on Eliís performance there are two narratives that people love to respond with:

1. People think other QBs donít make mistakes
2. People keep blaming Eli for all of the teams problems

Both are completely made up bullshit. Itís ok to admit when Eli makes a bad throw or makes a boneheaded decision. Eli is a legend and I will always look at him as the greatest QB in Giants history. Heís provided us all with some of the greatest sports moments in our lives. And Iíve spent basically his entire career defending to the idiot non Giants fans who have always thought he was somehow overrated, which has always been mostly based on his draft day decision and his demeanor on the field. Heís been an easy target for people since heís been in the league and itís ludicrous.

But again, Iím not sure why some around here canít have the discussion of his slippage in performance over the past couple of years without accusing people of saying things that have never been said. And Ben and Rivers both struggling have absolutely nothing to do with that. You can bet your ass that if the Steelers were 1-7 and people were calling for Tomlins head, there would be just as much chatter about the QB as there is ours.




The original post was about Eli having a better season than Big Ben and Rivers, so of course how those are doing this season is relevent. I would submit that your post shows how some people are so entrenched in their anti-Eli bias that they change the original intent of the thread to make their points.

I am the furthest thing to "anti Eli", lol. You can add THAT narrative to to the others that I mentioned. Whenever someone says Eli isn't playing well they are "anti Eli". Jeezus man.

And the entire point of your thread was to ask why people aren't calling for Ben and Rivers to be benched, which I clearly addressed. Again, just stop making shit up.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/11/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13685791 christian said:
Quote:
So the point is Manning is having a statitiscally better season than 2 other majorly declining QBs.

Sweet.

My thoughts exactly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: there is a belief here by some that only Eli makes mistakes  
PatersonPlank : 11/11/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13685805 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13685779 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13685761 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13685738 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


All other QB's are perfect. Why can't you look at the stats and acknowledge that Eli has not been anywhere near as bad as some here say? He is not the problem. The fact that the OL is still a work in progress, the defense stinks this year (which means the other team knows we are throwing), and we lost our top 4 WR's to injury, all have been big issues?

The Steelers have a much better team, Ben's stats should be much better, Put Eli on the Steelers and his stats would be much better than they are. Could you imagine Eli with Bell and those WR's?


Your first statement is exactly why this discussion can never be had around here. Never in the history of Eli has anyone ever said that Eli is the only QB that makes mistakes. Ever. Thatís just made up. If anyone EVER comments in a negative light on Eliís performance there are two narratives that people love to respond with:

1. People think other QBs donít make mistakes
2. People keep blaming Eli for all of the teams problems

Both are completely made up bullshit. Itís ok to admit when Eli makes a bad throw or makes a boneheaded decision. Eli is a legend and I will always look at him as the greatest QB in Giants history. Heís provided us all with some of the greatest sports moments in our lives. And Iíve spent basically his entire career defending to the idiot non Giants fans who have always thought he was somehow overrated, which has always been mostly based on his draft day decision and his demeanor on the field. Heís been an easy target for people since heís been in the league and itís ludicrous.

But again, Iím not sure why some around here canít have the discussion of his slippage in performance over the past couple of years without accusing people of saying things that have never been said. And Ben and Rivers both struggling have absolutely nothing to do with that. You can bet your ass that if the Steelers were 1-7 and people were calling for Tomlins head, there would be just as much chatter about the QB as there is ours.




The original post was about Eli having a better season than Big Ben and Rivers, so of course how those are doing this season is relevent. I would submit that your post shows how some people are so entrenched in their anti-Eli bias that they change the original intent of the thread to make their points.


I am the furthest thing to "anti Eli", lol. You can add THAT narrative to to the others that I mentioned. Whenever someone says Eli isn't playing well they are "anti Eli". Jeezus man.

And the entire point of your thread was to ask why people aren't calling for Ben and Rivers to be benched, which I clearly addressed. Again, just stop making shit up.


Its not my thread, I was just adding my two cents like everyone else. Sorry if you don't agree.
"Better" or...  
BamaBlue : 11/11/2017 11:14 am : link
less bad?
RE:  
christian : 11/11/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13685816 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
less bad?


Exactly. And somehow that should eliminate discussion and opinions on how to plan or move forward without him.

The day comes for all great QBs. There are maybe one or two who rode off into the sunset. But mostly age and eroded skill force the teams hand.

With a QB his age a good team will be ultra-critical and aware and should bow out earlier rather than later.
When i watch those three qbs play lately  
djm : 11/11/2017 11:27 am : link
Rivers looks better than Eli and Ben. Rivers won't sniff the playoffs unless the chargers get hot here. Ben probably makes it and I'd bet he raises his game.
Mcadoo and Reese are the problems  
spike : 11/11/2017 11:57 am : link
Not Eli
RE: Except  
JCin332 : 11/11/2017 8:04 pm : link
In comment 13685656 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The Steelers are a super bowl contender. Stats are misleading, Ben throws the ball downfield a lot more than Eli, which is going to lead to more INT.


You really have an agenda don't you..

He has an elite defense, probably the best RB and WR in the game...

Oh I forgot "a top 10 QB can win without a supporting cast"
RE: RE: Eli has been okay..  
bradshaw44 : 11/11/2017 8:18 pm : link
In comment 13685705 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13685695 Sean said:


Quote:


He isnít the problem, but heís not having an above average year.



Agree he is not the problem but we are not getting enough production for $20mm per year.

You have to wonder whether the offense would be doing better if we had a guy like McCown who makes a lot less than Eli, then spend the difference in the two salaries on a couple of solid O linemen. Improved running game, more time for the other QB to throw....


Donít we have like $11 mil in cap space? We could have gotten an OL like whitworth. Eliís salary is not hampering this team, technically. Itís amazing to me that all my friends that are die hards of teams like the Pats and Steelers think Eli is playing fine and itís the team around him thatís failing. And terry Bradshaw sees it the same way. Eli has always had trouble when his OL is terrible and the talent around him is weak. The FO knew that when they gave him his contract.
RE: RE: Except  
ajr2456 : 11/12/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13686143 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 13685656 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


The Steelers are a super bowl contender. Stats are misleading, Ben throws the ball downfield a lot more than Eli, which is going to lead to more INT.



You really have an agenda don't you..

He has an elite defense, probably the best RB and WR in the game...

Oh I forgot "a top 10 QB can win without a supporting cast"


You really fail to get the points. Why would Steelers want to bench him when theyíre winning?
Actually you don't get the point...you bash Eli and make an assinine  
JCin332 : 11/12/2017 10:11 am : link
list of "better QB's who raise the level of their teammates" and included Ben...

When it was pointed out the Steelers are winning in spite of Ben you doubled down..

So basically you got owned...

And for the record Ben has had a much better supporting cast his whole career..
I don't know where you are getting stats  
chuckydee9 : 11/12/2017 11:59 am : link
Rivers is ahead in almost all stats except comp %..and that's not a big deal because all season Eli has completed 4 yard passes on 3rd and 5.. which counts as a completion but really is the same as an incomplete pass..

Anyhow Eli isn't the problem.. he isn't perfect but he isn't the problem.. problem is the fact that JR doesn't understand how to build a team..
some of his stats  
BronxBombers : 11/13/2017 9:14 am : link
are because of garbage time td's....he played great against the rams after the starters left haha.
The team can't score  
family progtitioner : 11/13/2017 9:18 am : link
that's all anyone should care about. He's a major issue despite his subpar surrounding cast
By far the most important state for a QB is Yards Per Attempt...  
Tesla : 11/13/2017 9:23 am : link
where Eli ranks 28th in the league.

He's got a shit supporting cast but please stop the nonsense that he's playing well because he complete a lot of 4 yard passes on 3rd and long.
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