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When somebody tries to impress you with Eli's

RetroJint : 11/11/2017 9:02 am
stats this season, remind them that he's ranked #22 in ESPN's total quarterback rating . It also serves to remind them that the Giants have one rushing touchdown by a running back through half the season. That would be Darkwa.

The NFL has exchanged the rushing touchdown with the short TD pass. Scoring per team per game remains about 3 points higher than normal in the modern era (non fat football). This is mostly a reflection of the increased accuracy of the kickers on long-range FG attempts . So we're looking at essentially a zero-sum game here. It's not like he's having a good season. In fact he is well below average based on a metric that is designed to improve on conventional quarterback rating .

YA's death gave me pause to look at his passing numbers . I then checked Phi Simms. Both looked ridiculously inferior in comparison to the types of wholesale numbers that are put up in the NFL in this era. The passing game has been fine-tuned to put an average talent at the Gentleman's 92 rating . Many people don't grasp how significantly thr dink-pass offense has sanitized raw passing stats. But they come at a loss. Many teams can't run the ball efficiently . They break off the occasional 40 yarders but there are no consistent 4 & 5s. Some run hardly at all. Others are proficient between the 20s but can't run it in. Then, they are unable to run out the clock in the four-minute offense to close out one-score wins.

That's why Darkwa's 5.1 average is essentially tits on the bull as far as helping the Giants win games or at least keeping Spagnuolo's defenseless defense off the field .

The Giants have a lousy offense. The play of the line is certainly contributory , although they've been much better of late. Losing the wide receivers all at once was a solar plexus punch. But the play of the QB also has to be factored in.

Even Eli apologists like Howard Cross and Bob Papa are calling for at least a structured debut of Webb. Over these last 8 games it will certainly help the team as they make plans for '18.
great post retro  
micky : 11/11/2017 9:05 am : link
.
Thought Eli looked good running one in for a TD  
Jimmy Googs : 11/11/2017 9:10 am : link
a few weeks ago.

Giants should explore that threat more often...
All good points.  
Mark C : 11/11/2017 9:11 am : link
But regarding Webb getting PT, it seems unlikely to happen under this coach without a directive from above. Would you agree?
Good stuff, Retro  
Montreal Man : 11/11/2017 9:13 am : link
Worth thinking about. The entire game is being transformed right before our eyes. At my age, I prefer the game about ten years ago and before that. Today's game really is dull, IMO, no matter who's winning. Same ol', same ol' same ol'. There's just no EXCITEMENT to the games, IMO. These players could just as well be on Madden.
You might have  
crick n NC : 11/11/2017 11:34 am : link
been a "helluva" good defensive coach, but you know zero about offense. Your posts over the years have proved that.
RE: Good stuff, Retro  
Powerclean765 : 11/11/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13685679 Montreal Man said:
Quote:
Worth thinking about. The entire game is being transformed right before our eyes. At my age, I prefer the game about ten years ago and before that. Today's game really is dull, IMO, no matter who's winning. Same ol', same ol' same ol'. There's just no EXCITEMENT to the games, IMO. These players could just as well be on Madden.


Agreed 100%. That's been my concern for years now and why I personally don't watch as much college or pro ball as I used to. I can only watch so many shotgun handoffs and go routes. The game has been dumbed down and everything looks the same.
Football should allow more contact  
rocco8112 : 11/11/2017 12:06 pm : link
by DB's to defend the pass. Keep the targeting head hits and leaving feet stuff for safety. But, allow more aggressive bump and run etc.

This would be a positive change to bring back some more physicality and make it harder to just hit short timing passes looking for YAC.

The Colts, GM , owner and Peyton bitching about the Pats DEF which led to rule changes helped alter the course of football.
You probably made the same post  
JCin332 : 11/11/2017 12:54 pm : link
mid 2007...
Nobody..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/11/2017 1:05 pm : link
should really try to make a case that anyone is having even a decent season right now.

There are way too many definitive statements being made that are just created out of frustration. And Eli might be the toughest guy on the team to evaluate.

He's getting older, but are his skills demonstratively diminishing or is he playing in a scheme with a terrible OL that makes executing even basic elements of the offense difficult?

It gets even worse when you have several posters with the mindset that Eli needs to win games by himself to justify his cap worth, but outside of Rodgers, QB's carrying teams on their backs is basically a myth. When people say that we can have a cheap young QB like Dak Prescott, they miss the point that Prescott would seemingly be poor on this team because in his brief career, when he's pressured, he makes his worst throws. Almost every QB does.

Another complication is that Mac's system seems predicated on throws about 5 yards downfield which mutes Eli's advantages too and if he needs a guy to lengthen the play, that isn't Eli's strength.

It is really tough to gauge what burden Eli carries in the team's failures, but some people seem very certain they know exactly. That's the frustrating part.

I mean you truly do have posters here who think if Eli was more accurate, we'd not have WR injuries. Just baffling as all fuck.
RE: You probably made the same post  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/11/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13685900 JCin332 said:
Quote:
mid 2007...

When Eli was 26?

Why some people choose to flat out ignore Eli's age (and the history of when athletes begin to show signs of physical decline) is just strange.
On the other hand...  
trueblueinpw : 11/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
Eli aside, Iíve never been a fan of statistical analysis for football. Football is different from baseball, and even basketball when analyzing a player. So, Iím just not a big fan of the numbers being used to evaluate where a QB ranks. For my money, when analyzing a QB I like to look at performance in big games and clutch situations and durability. You canít win if youíre not on the field and special players make special plays on special days.

Now about Eli, how did he look to everyone in his last big game? It was only a short while ago that Eli was in Green Bay throwing frozen ropes and making all the right plays in a big time play off game. Heís a big time player that gets better when the games get bigger.

I get it, people want to win and Eli has looked lousy along with every other player on this team. But I just do not believe heís done physically and I donít think heís the problem with this team. Put Eli on the field with an NFL running back and real head coach and I think heíll be the same franchise QB and stone cold champion that heís always been.
FMIC  
joeinpa : 11/11/2017 3:21 pm : link
You are spot on in regard to whether or not Eli s skills have diminished.
Personally I see no drop off in his ability to make on the throws when provided adequate time.
RE: FMIC  
christian : 11/11/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13686004 joeinpa said:
Quote:
You are spot on in regard to whether or not Eli s skills have diminished.
Personally I see no drop off in his ability to make on the throws when provided adequate time.


There are a number of people who relaize the state of the team is a confluence of factors and no single element can be proven given they all work in concert.

But that given the age and cost of the quarter back and the trajectories of similarly aged players as evidence, a reasonable case can be made the smartest path forward might not involve him.

And that's no to say he won't succeed elsewhere in a much better situation with lots of better factors.
One of your best posts FMIC  
Bluesbreaker : 11/11/2017 3:37 pm : link
This Mac offense always looked like a square peg in a round hole to me . You build to Eli's strengths the short passing game has never been one of them . Give him a run game with solid protection he can pick apart a defense and call audibles with the best of him .
Fatman - The passes from Eli have been the Proximate cause  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/11/2017 8:38 pm : link
Of the Receivers getting hurt. Eli has never thrown a pretty accurate spiral, but he is Directly responsible. Its the way its happening that's ridiculous. They are HURT immediately ...No Limping off the field.
The WR's have been CRUSHED after being unable to protect themselves. Unfortunately this has happened several times starting from Pre- season. Three in row, One after the other!Whos fault is it ? The Receivers? Eli took them out!
Like I stated before I do not recommend Evan Engram extending himself until Eli Manning can harness better control of his passes.
RE: Fatman - The passes from Eli have been the Proximate cause  
Les in TO : 11/11/2017 9:35 pm : link
In comment 13686167 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Of the Receivers getting hurt. Eli has never thrown a pretty accurate spiral, but he is Directly responsible. Its the way its happening that's ridiculous. They are HURT immediately ...No Limping off the field.
The WR's have been CRUSHED after being unable to protect themselves. Unfortunately this has happened several times starting from Pre- season. Three in row, One after the other!Whos fault is it ? The Receivers? Eli took them out!
Like I stated before I do not recommend Evan Engram extending himself until Eli Manning can harness better control of his passes.
Ballard boss beckum smith nicks Odell Marshall. Eli is a receiver/tight end KILLER with his POOR spirals!
RE: RE: Fatman - The passes from Eli have been the Proximate cause  
Sarcastic Sam : 11/11/2017 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13686216 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 13686167 Elite Mobster #32 said:


Quote:


Of the Receivers getting hurt. Eli has never thrown a pretty accurate spiral, but he is Directly responsible. Its the way its happening that's ridiculous. They are HURT immediately ...No Limping off the field.
The WR's have been CRUSHED after being unable to protect themselves. Unfortunately this has happened several times starting from Pre- season. Three in row, One after the other!Whos fault is it ? The Receivers? Eli took them out!
Like I stated before I do not recommend Evan Engram extending himself until Eli Manning can harness better control of his passes.

Ballard boss beckum smith nicks Odell Marshall. Eli is a receiver/tight end KILLER with his POOR spirals!


So is Brady a TE killer? Cuz that Gronk gets injured all ze time, and Hernandez hasn't played in the NFL in years.
That stat-compiling goofball  
Giants_ROK : 11/11/2017 11:56 pm : link
can't get gone fast enough.
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