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Flowers: Best Pass Blocking LT since week 2 per PFF

ryanmkeane : 11/12/2017 11:20 pm
From @PFF_NYGiants: After a disastrous start to 2017, LT Ereck Flowers has improved in pass protection. Since Week 2 he has allowed 0 sacks on 282 pass blocking snaps, the best of any OT in that span. He has allowed 17 pressures over that period.

This should be fun...
i said in preseason  
markky : 11/12/2017 11:22 pm : link
if Flowers becomes even an average player that he would be my favorite Giants.
Some on here can't accept that a player has improved  
PatersonPlank : 11/12/2017 11:24 pm : link
I Think him and Pugh can be built around. I also love his attitude, unlike guys like Eli Apple. He shuts his mouth and works hard.
Still not sold as the long term LT  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/12/2017 11:28 pm : link
But I think he can be a real solid RT in the long run.
Glad he is improving  
djstat : 11/12/2017 11:29 pm : link
Still not worth the 9th overall pick in 2015
Flowers Engram  
annexOPR : 11/12/2017 11:29 pm : link
Shepard Beckham

4/11 guys on offense I want to see return ... and thatís it
RE: Glad he is improving  
Justlurking : 11/12/2017 11:37 pm : link
In comment 13689002 djstat said:
Quote:
Still not worth the 9th overall pick in 2015


Heís still one of the youngest OTs in the league and is developing into a very good LT. If that happens he was worth the #9 pick.
Yeah but Paulie Slapnuts  
B in ALB : 11/12/2017 11:39 pm : link
had already levied his grade. Flowers is the worst pick since Dave Brown. Paulie is a professional football scout.

And he's a fucking war hero from the Polish/American War of 1974. He won the Medal of Dishonor as a Navy SEAL for fuck sake!
RE: Some on here can't accept that a player has improved  
WillVAB : 11/12/2017 11:41 pm : link
In comment 13688992 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I Think him and Pugh can be built around. I also love his attitude, unlike guys like Eli Apple. He shuts his mouth and works hard.


Paying Pugh would be a mistake. Canít stay healthy.
Paulie stormed the beaches of Krakow  
B in ALB : 11/12/2017 11:44 pm : link
The only thing better than his heroism is his ability to break down football.
RE: Yeah but Paulie Slapnuts  
Mike from SI : 11/12/2017 11:51 pm : link
In comment 13689014 B in ALB said:
Quote:
had already levied his grade. Flowers is the worst pick since Dave Brown. Paulie is a professional football scout.

And he's a fucking war hero from the Polish/American War of 1974. He won the Medal of Dishonor as a Navy SEAL for fuck sake!


That guy's still around? I thought he created some weird splinter board?
Mentioned this is the game thread  
Rflairr : 11/13/2017 12:34 am : link
No one is getting close to Eliís blindside. Itís this shitty offensive scheme thatís the problem
If only Bobby Hart, John Jerry,  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/13/2017 12:36 am : link
Weston Richburg (before he got hurt) were anything but complete and utter shit. And, of course, Pugh injured once again. This OLine still blows. Let's not even get into their supposed 'run blocking.'
Eli  
Dragon : 11/13/2017 12:46 am : link
Will never be much help to an OL but they are trying to do some different things with him each game it seems. Our backs set up seven yards from the scrimmage line because Eli canít move his feet quickly enough to have our backs closer. No OL in the NFL is perfect but we are playing musical chairs with ours due to injuries. How much will these guys want and the teams belief in their value will be interesting.
This team is 1-8. They're in no position to be paying top dollar  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/13/2017 12:48 am : link
for a lineman like Pugh, who even when he's good is a lock to miss a bunch of games.
.  
Toth029 : 11/13/2017 12:52 am : link
I am okay with Flowers at RG or RT. New coaches can prep him.

Future OL can look like

? - ? - Jones/? - Fluker - Flowers

Pugh can pound salt wanting $12m or whatever since he is injured so much.
So all the failure is Flowers' fault!  
old man : 11/13/2017 2:48 am : link
When he sucked they failed.
Now he's better but they still fail.

Cut him...move Hart to LT where he can be the best LT in the NFL also.

Championship !!!!!
RE: Some on here can't accept that a player has improved  
Beer Man : 11/13/2017 3:13 am : link
In comment 13688992 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I Think him and Pugh can be built around. I also love his attitude, unlike guys like Eli Apple. He shuts his mouth and works hard.
Agree, but I think the team is going to have to let Justin walk. He misses far too much time with injury, of particular concern is his back.
This thread is...  
2ndroundKO : 11/13/2017 4:50 am : link
a great example of how obtuse posters are. Our 23-year-old LT spent the entire off-season busting his tail and after a rough early start, appears to have turned the corner and is the best pass blocking LT in the league since week two. The response? Move him to RT or RG. It would be comical if it wasn't so dumb.
How ironic  
jeff57 : 11/13/2017 5:02 am : link
As the team takes a total dump, he finally plays well
The line appears to have improved  
aimrocky : 11/13/2017 6:34 am : link
And the offense in general looks a bit better. The defense, on the other hand... Yikes.
See I think  
mdthedream : 11/13/2017 6:38 am : link
the O-Line as a whole has improved the rest of the team has not. I also sadly think Eli is done and no longer can move at all in the pocket and is part of the problem. He is just avg at best. It is time for the team to draft a QB or let the kid play and see what we have.
I thought he gave one up  
section125 : 11/13/2017 6:38 am : link
yesterday..
Watching this team mostly just mail it in..........Flowers is actually  
GiantBlue : 11/13/2017 7:18 am : link
doing the opposite. He keeps quiet, continues to work hard and improve his craft.

When the wreckage is cleared, I agree completely that we may have found a solid RT for this team as we re-emerge in future years.

Maybe he may grow into a solid LT.....but he is a keeper IMHO.
It's hilarious.  
FStubbs : 11/13/2017 7:43 am : link
I seriously thought "If Flowers becomes an even average left tackle nobody is stopping this team. It's a huge if though."

LOL me.
RE: Watching this team mostly just mail it in..........Flowers is actually  
FStubbs : 11/13/2017 7:44 am : link
In comment 13689153 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
doing the opposite. He keeps quiet, continues to work hard and improve his craft.

When the wreckage is cleared, I agree completely that we may have found a solid RT for this team as we re-emerge in future years.

Maybe he may grow into a solid LT.....but he is a keeper IMHO.


Yeah, that's one thing I'll give him. He's got heart. For all of his follies, if there's anything this season's proved, heart is the most important thing. I'd rather have Flowers than Jackrabbit.
Eli is good at getting rid of ball  
ZogZerg : 11/13/2017 7:51 am : link
Where does 17 pressures rank?
Stop this happens every year  
Essex : 11/13/2017 7:51 am : link
His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.
I'll eat crow on this  
KerrysFlask : 11/13/2017 8:21 am : link
He's been really really good.

What has he had, one penalty that I can recall in that span?

He flipped a switch. Impressed.
He Has Improved  
Rong5611 : 11/13/2017 8:32 am : link
We still picked him way too early. I like him at RG next year.
RE: Stop this happens every year  
2ndroundKO : 11/13/2017 8:38 am : link
In comment 13689202 Essex said:
Quote:
His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.

Oh we're throwing it quickly THIS year.

You can't make this stuff up.
RE: RE: Glad he is improving  
Simms11 : 11/13/2017 8:47 am : link
In comment 13689012 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 13689002 djstat said:


Quote:


Still not worth the 9th overall pick in 2015



Heís still one of the youngest OTs in the league and is developing into a very good LT. If that happens he was worth the #9 pick.


I agree. He most certainly is showing he was worth the 9th pick now. Heís improved to the point of being an above average LT. Does he stay there? Thatís the question. He can certainly play however. Decent Olinemen in this league are hard to find these days.
If you took his pass blocking efficiency and factored in QB release  
Ivan15 : 11/13/2017 9:02 am : link
time, you might draw a different conclusion.

Stats do lie - all the time.
Flowers  
AcidTest : 11/13/2017 9:10 am : link
has improved tremendously. We do get the ball out quickly, but we were doing that when he was playing poorly. And now he's the best pass blocking LT since week 2. I thought his best position would be RT or G, but he's making a great case to stay at LT. His work ethic has also never been questioned. He's tough, quiet, and worked his butt off in the off season. A rare bright spot for us. Great job, Ereck.
Flowers is definitely on the rise. May have been a reach, but he is  
Victor in CT : 11/13/2017 9:18 am : link
playing well now. And I really think it's becuase they are running the ball now. Before the game got out of hand, the actually has 2 TEs and a FULLBACK in the game and were pounding the rock.

He is their best OL right now.
It's funny  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 9:19 am : link
that stats lie and don't when it comes to a player that people hate.

Flowers has improved tremendously. Worthy of the 9 pick? TBD. He's one of the future pieces of the line along with Jones. How they fill the other three spots will be interesting.
RE: Some on here can't accept that a player has improved  
Victor in CT : 11/13/2017 9:20 am : link
In comment 13688992 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I Think him and Pugh can be built around. I also love his attitude, unlike guys like Eli Apple. He shuts his mouth and works hard.


Pugh CANNOT be built around. He doesn't play enough. ANd he isn't very good when he does. It's been 5 years. He's not going to get better or healthier.
Flowers  
Thegratefulhead : 11/13/2017 9:28 am : link
At his age, if he has been the best pass blocking LT since week 2....Time to not only cut him some slack but give him some props. The next part of what that might mean is an awful pill to swallow.
RE: RE: Stop this happens every year  
Essex : 11/13/2017 9:33 am : link
In comment 13689320 2ndroundKO said:
Quote:
In comment 13689202 Essex said:


Quote:


His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.


Oh we're throwing it quickly THIS year.

You can't make this stuff up.


And yes last year Eli was the 3rd least Qb in football and 4th the year before. So, please donít mind me being a bit skeptical.
Still hard to judge  
David B. : 11/13/2017 9:41 am : link
It's obviously good that he's improving, but as others mentioned, those numbers can still be misleading.

He'd be easier to judge on a team where the rest of the OL didn't suck, and the QB was able to hold the ball a more "normal" amount of time.

i.e. How consistently can he protect for 3+ seconds on 5/7 step drop plays with OL teammates who perform their roles satisfactorily. We don't know that, because he's never played in those circumstances.

I think he's gonna be on the team for a while, but I don't know how the Giants could consider paying him "top OLT" money.
He still sucks but at least he isn't a  
Jimmy Googs : 11/13/2017 9:43 am : link
quitter...
RE: Stop this happens every year  
BigBlueShock : 11/13/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13689202 Essex said:
Quote:
His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.

You should really spend more time actually watching the games. Flowers is stone walling his man on most plays. They arenít getting close. He still has his moments where his technique gets sloppy and he gets beat, heís far from perfect, but please stop with this nonsense that his success is because Eli gets rid of the ball so quickly. There are plenty of plays where that just simply isnít true. Is it so hard to admit Flowers has played very well? Oh, of course it is. Youíve already made your mind up on him so heís got no chance with you.
Haters gonna hate  
est1986 : 11/13/2017 10:00 am : link
Flowers has played at a high level the past few weeks. Soon as he gets beat once tho BBI will petition for his release. Flowers was always a tough SOB and now he is finally becoming a good football player, great news going forward.
RE: RE: Stop this happens every year  
Essex : 11/13/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13689558 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13689202 Essex said:


Quote:


His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.


You should really spend more time actually watching the games. Flowers is stone walling his man on most plays. They arenít getting close. He still has his moments where his technique gets sloppy and he gets beat, heís far from perfect, but please stop with this nonsense that his success is because Eli gets rid of the ball so quickly. There are plenty of plays where that just simply isnít true. Is it so hard to admit Flowers has played very well? Oh, of course it is. Youíve already made your mind up on him so heís got no chance with you.

Unfortunately (given the results) I have spent the time watching every game. Itís the same nonsense every year, last year we had that offensive line guru on twitter tell us how much Flowers had improved. Eli doesnít get sacked anymore and hold on to the ball for no time, so the fact that he hasnít let up a sack is off little value. We need to move on from Flowers at LT. I am sick and tired of the same song and dance every year. He has improved, letís give him one more year to wreck our season. Also, if he has improved so much, shouldnít we be congratulating Reese for betting on him and not replacing him???!
RE: RE: RE: Stop this happens every year  
BigBlueShock : 11/13/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13689619 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 13689558 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13689202 Essex said:


Quote:


His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.


You should really spend more time actually watching the games. Flowers is stone walling his man on most plays. They arenít getting close. He still has his moments where his technique gets sloppy and he gets beat, heís far from perfect, but please stop with this nonsense that his success is because Eli gets rid of the ball so quickly. There are plenty of plays where that just simply isnít true. Is it so hard to admit Flowers has played very well? Oh, of course it is. Youíve already made your mind up on him so heís got no chance with you.


Unfortunately (given the results) I have spent the time watching every game. Itís the same nonsense every year, last year we had that offensive line guru on twitter tell us how much Flowers had improved. Eli doesnít get sacked anymore and hold on to the ball for no time, so the fact that he hasnít let up a sack is off little value. We need to move on from Flowers at LT. I am sick and tired of the same song and dance every year. He has improved, letís give him one more year to wreck our season. Also, if he has improved so much, shouldnít we be congratulating Reese for betting on him and not replacing him???!

One more year to wreck our season? You see, thatís what Iím talking about. If you think Flowers has wrecked this season you are being intentionally ignorant. How the hell has Flowers of all people wrecked this season? Holy smokes. Like I said, youíve already made your mind up. The guy hasnít given up a sack since week 2 while playing against some very good DL and heís wrecked the season. Haha, classic.
RE: RE: RE: Stop this happens every year  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13689619 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 13689558 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13689202 Essex said:


Quote:


His numbers donít look nearly as bad as he is because we compensate for it by throwing quickly. Anytime we ask him to protect for longer intervals it is a disaster. I am not saying he canít be useful at another position, but I have seen all I need to see from him at LT. With that said, the kid works hard and has dealt with tons of criticismóso personally I hope he can contribute to the team for years to come, unfortunately, for me, it shouldnít be at LT.


You should really spend more time actually watching the games. Flowers is stone walling his man on most plays. They arenít getting close. He still has his moments where his technique gets sloppy and he gets beat, heís far from perfect, but please stop with this nonsense that his success is because Eli gets rid of the ball so quickly. There are plenty of plays where that just simply isnít true. Is it so hard to admit Flowers has played very well? Oh, of course it is. Youíve already made your mind up on him so heís got no chance with you.


Unfortunately (given the results) I have spent the time watching every game. Itís the same nonsense every year, last year we had that offensive line guru on twitter tell us how much Flowers had improved. Eli doesnít get sacked anymore and hold on to the ball for no time, so the fact that he hasnít let up a sack is off little value. We need to move on from Flowers at LT. I am sick and tired of the same song and dance every year. He has improved, letís give him one more year to wreck our season. Also, if he has improved so much, shouldnít we be congratulating Reese for betting on him and not replacing him???!


You're wrong. It's got nothing to do with Eli getting the ball out quick because he has been much better in the run game too.

Eli may be getting the ball out quick but Flower's guy is also stonewalled at the LOS. Do you want him to block for 6 seconds?
FLOWERS is one of the most consistent in the leauge right Now  
Elite Mobster #32 : 11/13/2017 10:54 am : link
If we are building an Offensive Line, he is first on the list next year as the Tackle or Guard. If we look at the performance yesterday he was the best of all the Lineman. Actually Pugh struggled. Pugh is in a contract year should be signed but not as a Tackle. So we would start with just Flowerers truthfully.

Now he is a Young starter for 3 yrs at 23, and now he is playing well if we were to put talent around him he may be one of the best.
Flowers is ranked the 52 Best tackle in football by PFF  
Essex : 11/13/2017 10:59 am : link
He stinks, even if you want to use their analysis and grades. Honestly, this thread is the definition of insanity. I hate this line, but I have to use it in this case, If you think Flowers is a good LT you donít know what your watching.
RE: Flowers is ranked the 52 Best tackle in football by PFF  
chuckydee9 : 11/13/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13689819 Essex said:
Quote:
He stinks, even if you want to use their analysis and grades. Honestly, this thread is the definition of insanity. I hate this line, but I have to use it in this case, If you think Flowers is a good LT you donít know what your watching.


If this is true.. then I dunno why the OP is bragging about Flowers being good.. Also I am very unimpressed by his run blocking this season.. Flower's fuck-up on run blocks cost us the Philly game..
I fucking knew it deep down  
djm : 11/13/2017 11:29 am : link
that the OL would not be the reason why this team sucked so bad in 2017. It's the lack of leadership and the collapse of the D that did them in. Also a failure to make a big play in philly when it was sorely needed. Don't like to boil a season down to one or two plays but I wonder how things would have been if the Giants get a stop in Philly late and win that game. I think we'd be in a much different place. Maybe not a playoff year but one that at least resembled normalcy.

One or two plays not made by the D sunk this season. The O wasn't ready early on but there was a brief moment against Philly where things looked to be coming together. Then it was done.
RE: I fucking knew it deep down  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13689894 djm said:
Quote:
that the OL would not be the reason why this team sucked so bad in 2017. It's the lack of leadership and the collapse of the D that did them in. Also a failure to make a big play in philly when it was sorely needed. Don't like to boil a season down to one or two plays but I wonder how things would have been if the Giants get a stop in Philly late and win that game. I think we'd be in a much different place. Maybe not a playoff year but one that at least resembled normalcy.

One or two plays not made by the D sunk this season. The O wasn't ready early on but there was a brief moment against Philly where things looked to be coming together. Then it was done.


That one quarter in nearly two years of football seems to be the outlier.
Eli has been holding the ball longer lately  
PatersonPlank : 11/13/2017 11:46 am : link
the pass patterns have been longer. I don't have the stats but would be interested if someone did. I think as the line improves more routes come into play for the passing game. In fact some of his sacks are now coming from waiting too long, wanting the give even more time to wait for the WR to get open.
RE: Eli has been holding the ball longer lately  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13689942 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
the pass patterns have been longer. I don't have the stats but would be interested if someone did. I think as the line improves more routes come into play for the passing game. In fact some of his sacks are now coming from waiting too long, wanting the give even more time to wait for the WR to get open.


I didn't tally it up but you are correct.
Pretty amazing what happens  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/13/2017 11:54 am : link
to pass protection, when you actually try to run the ball and are committed to doing it. Takes away the automatic pass rush from the DEs.
I am also glad he is improving but..  
EricJ : 11/13/2017 11:57 am : link
I think he is best suited to play guard. He may actually end up being a really good guard for us
RE: RE: I fucking knew it deep down  
djm : 11/13/2017 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13689930 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13689894 djm said:


Quote:


that the OL would not be the reason why this team sucked so bad in 2017. It's the lack of leadership and the collapse of the D that did them in. Also a failure to make a big play in philly when it was sorely needed. Don't like to boil a season down to one or two plays but I wonder how things would have been if the Giants get a stop in Philly late and win that game. I think we'd be in a much different place. Maybe not a playoff year but one that at least resembled normalcy.

One or two plays not made by the D sunk this season. The O wasn't ready early on but there was a brief moment against Philly where things looked to be coming together. Then it was done.



That one quarter in nearly two years of football seems to be the outlier.


True. Just saying you never know how the season would have unfolded if they get that win. You're right though. The O has sucked for a long time now.
If Flowers stays healthy and continues to improve...  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/13/2017 3:15 pm : link
...one of the hard off-season decisions facing the team - EF's Year Five option - will become relatively easy. That's really good news. Rebuilding is a lot easier if you have something to rebuild around, and Ereck Flowers is emerging as a building block, rather than an obstacle to future success.

I think Flowers has a realistic chance to be the Giants' best left tackle since Jumbo Elliott, or at least since Luke Petitgout. That doesn't make him a Hall of Famer, but it would make him good enough to win with. The rest of the line is a different story.
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