Would you agree that Eli has had pretty much no weapons on offense to throw to outside of Evan Engram?
Let's look at Evan Engram in relation to the rest of the TE's in the NFL:
He's 5th in receptions with 40
He's 8th in yards with 443
He's 2nd in the league in TD's with 5
I read this morning that Evan Engram is the first rookie TE since the merger in 1970 to reach 400 yards and 5 TD's through 8 games.
So my question is this: Is Eli in decline except when he's throwing to Engram?
finding Shepard without having a burner like OBJ they still
have problems maintaining drives . There never seems to be
any kind of an offensive strategy you just hope that the mistakes are limited O-linemen taking turns whiffing Eli
took some heavy shots making completions .
We never get the RB's out into space in the passing game .
Having Bobby Hart in there is Russian roulette .
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
If you enjoy seeing those kind of plays then more power to you. But I'm sick of them. The team sucks enough without having it's 2 time Super Bowl MVP veteran QB making plays like that, it seems, at least once a game. AND he missed a few throws as well. Eli may not be the biggest problem with this team... not by a long shot... but he hasn't exactly been a big part of any solution either. Not with plays like that...
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
How many times do I have to say that I want them to draft his replacement in the first round? Is that not planning for life beyond?
As far as the decline aspect, he's healthy and never missed a game. I don't see the decline that so many state as an obvious thing to see. I find it impossible to evaluate what Eli is or isn't under these conditions. I'm frankly surprised that so many are convinced that he's in obvious decline.
I wouldn't want to evaluate what Webb is or isn't in these conditions, either.
The Giants could literally play YA Tittles corpse at QB and they’d only be one game worse off. Actually the way they ran it and defended in Denver, Tittle’s corpse may have won that game. He’s not the biggest issue but he’s not the solution and he’s most certainly in decline as is anyone when they’re pushing 37. Simple biology. Even if you can name examples of guys who succeeded at that age, and even if their stats didn’t show any decline, that doesn’t mean they were as good as they were in their physical prime. Better supporting casts or rules changes can help guys as they age too. Brett Favre statistically was great at 40 but he wasn’t 1996 Brett Favre. Peyton was great until his last year but that doesn’t mean he was the same guy he was in Indy even if the stats may have misled you. Same thing with guys like Brady and Brees today.
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Dan Marino posted a 23 TD/15 INT season in 1998 at 37. He was 7th in the league in pass yards, the Dolphins finished 10-6.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
How many times do I have to say that I want them to draft his replacement in the first round? Is that not planning for life beyond?
As far as the decline aspect, he's healthy and never missed a game. I don't see the decline that so many state as an obvious thing to see. I find it impossible to evaluate what Eli is or isn't under these conditions. I'm frankly surprised that so many are convinced that he's in obvious decline.
I wouldn't want to evaluate what Webb is or isn't in these conditions, either.
Decline doesn’t have to involve injuries. If you can’t tell his deep ball isn’t the same, then you’re not watching close enough. Watch when he throws a ball field side, the WR is often standing waiting too long allowing minimal YAC.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
Instead of just cutting and pasting stats, go look at the injuries Marino sustained throughout his career and rethink this post.
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In comment 13690380 arcarsenal said:
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Okay, Britt...
Eli will never decline. All he's missing is an elite OL... and a great ground game.. and a better defense on the other side of the ball... and more skill players.
Once he has all of that, he'll prove everyone wrong!
I didn't say any of that. You're overstating. It's unnecessary.
Because you're completely unwilling to acknowledge that Eli is responsible for anything detrimental to the current state of the football team.
You want to blame every single factor besides him.
Drew Brees has had less average time to throw than Eli has and is having a very strong season.
Not sure why it's so hard to admit that it's likely Eli has declined a bit but is also being hurt by circumstances. Like I said in my first response - it can be, and likely IS both.
Drew Brees now has:
1) Running game
2) Defense.
That helps a great deal, and why they have rattled off seven straight.
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Dan Marino posted a 23 TD/15 INT season in 1998 at 37. He was 7th in the league in pass yards, the Dolphins finished 10-6.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
Instead of just cutting and pasting stats, go look at the injuries Marino sustained throughout his career and rethink this post.
Additionally, Jimmy Johnson wanted to make Marino a game manager and have a run-first offense.
Not saying Marino was still a top flight QB, but it didn't fit the QB's style.
Sound familiar?
The Giants are 25th in yards with 808, and 31st in TD's with 2. One of which was Eli's 14 yard TD run.
The Giants are 25th in yards with 808, and 31st in TD's with 2. One of which was Eli's 14 yard TD run.
Go check out their "POINTS ALLOWED" this season........you'd be surprised.
Winning is usually a team effort.
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They also have 14 rushing TD's, which is good for 1st in the league.
The Giants are 25th in yards with 808, and 31st in TD's with 2. One of which was Eli's 14 yard TD run.
Go check out their "POINTS ALLOWED" this season........you'd be surprised.
Winning is usually a team effort.
BTW, stats aren't everything, but Brees' stats look very comparable to Eli's.
Has Brees played better, surely he has.
The team around him, entire team, is better.
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In comment 13690410 arcarsenal said:
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Dan Marino posted a 23 TD/15 INT season in 1998 at 37. He was 7th in the league in pass yards, the Dolphins finished 10-6.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
How many times do I have to say that I want them to draft his replacement in the first round? Is that not planning for life beyond?
As far as the decline aspect, he's healthy and never missed a game. I don't see the decline that so many state as an obvious thing to see. I find it impossible to evaluate what Eli is or isn't under these conditions. I'm frankly surprised that so many are convinced that he's in obvious decline.
I wouldn't want to evaluate what Webb is or isn't in these conditions, either.
Decline doesn’t have to involve injuries. If you can’t tell his deep ball isn’t the same, then you’re not watching close enough. Watch when he throws a ball field side, the WR is often standing waiting too long allowing minimal YAC.
Lmao what are you standing on the sidelines with a stop watch...??
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In comment 13690424 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13690410 arcarsenal said:
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Dan Marino posted a 23 TD/15 INT season in 1998 at 37. He was 7th in the league in pass yards, the Dolphins finished 10-6.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
How many times do I have to say that I want them to draft his replacement in the first round? Is that not planning for life beyond?
As far as the decline aspect, he's healthy and never missed a game. I don't see the decline that so many state as an obvious thing to see. I find it impossible to evaluate what Eli is or isn't under these conditions. I'm frankly surprised that so many are convinced that he's in obvious decline.
I wouldn't want to evaluate what Webb is or isn't in these conditions, either.
Decline doesn’t have to involve injuries. If you can’t tell his deep ball isn’t the same, then you’re not watching close enough. Watch when he throws a ball field side, the WR is often standing waiting too long allowing minimal YAC.
Lmao what are you standing on the sidelines with a stop watch...??
Watch the games and then compare it to other games
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Dan Marino posted a 23 TD/15 INT season in 1998 at 37. He was 7th in the league in pass yards, the Dolphins finished 10-6.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
Instead of just cutting and pasting stats, go look at the injuries Marino sustained throughout his career and rethink this post.
Marino only missed a significant chunk of games in one of his seasons - the year he tore his achilles.
He had a hip issue later on if I remember right - his level of play before he missed games in his final season wasn't any better before it happened than it was afterwards.
Marino had offers from other teams following the 99 season - he could have continued playing should he have decided that, but he chose not to. Most likely because he knew he was finished.
Do you guys not think that Eli has played hurt through his career? Just because he has never missed a game doesn't mean he's never been hurt or that his body has taken a real toll over all these years.
None of these guys play forever.
Additionally, for everyone who wants to blame the offense. I guess you're forgetting what Eli's last season was like under Gilbride.
There's a reason why they wanted to shift this offense into a higher percentage passing offense. Eli was turning the ball over more than any other QB in the sport before they did. The entire point was to elongate his career.
But no one on the other side of this discussion is going to want to acknowledge that Eli has declined whatsoever until he has one of those seasons where it's undeniable and embarrassing. It seems like as long as he can throw a football 50 yards, no one will think he's changed at all.
Just know that season is probably not far away at this point. So the Giants would be wise to have their next guy waiting in the wings when it happens - whether it's Webb or whoever they target in April.
There's a reason why they wanted to shift this offense into a higher percentage passing offense. Eli was turning the ball over more than any other QB in the sport before they did. The entire point was to elongate his career.
But no one on the other side of this discussion is going to want to acknowledge that Eli has declined whatsoever until he has one of those seasons where it's undeniable and embarrassing. It seems like as long as he can throw a football 50 yards, no one will think he's changed at all.
Just know that season is probably not far away at this point. So the Giants would be wise to have their next guy waiting in the wings when it happens - whether it's Webb or whoever they target in April. [/quote]
This is 100% spot on
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
He's 37 years old. It's normal to decline. Brady is declining. To think Eli isn't capable of trending down at an age where quarterbacks usually do wind down is some homer talk.
He's 37 years old. It's normal to decline. Brady is declining. To think Eli isn't capable of trending down at an age where quarterbacks usually do wind down is some homer talk.
I think Eli's an average QB right now. I think he spent most of his career in the 6-12 range (and importantly, was largely consistently in that range outside of 2013 - and even). That's not that big of a decline.
Maybe he can get back to above-average play, but I don't think he can carry an offense like he did in 2009-2011, and even 14/15.
Seriously, what would your plan be? This team is not nearly in as good cap shape as the numbers appear. 3/5ths of the starting oline are free agents and Jerry needs to be replaced. The only linebacker under contract is Goodson and he is always hurt. The team desperately needs a pass rush and will have to replace likely cap casualties in DRC and Marshall.
Bitch and moan all you want about the Vernon and JPP contracts. They are unmovable this off-season. So you keep saying give Eli this and that and he can win. To be honest, they won't be able to give him those pieces for a couple years, when he will be completely toast.
They will have to go halfway on the oline and do what they can around Vernon, JPP, Jenkins and Collins. A young QB who can actually move could help an average oline.
And please don't suggest trading Odell for a plethora of picks just to keep Eli around. He is not going anywhere, and you will be happy when the next QB has a weapon like him to throw to, along with Engram.
If the team isn't going to be good for a couple years anyway, it is the perfect time to move on.
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
How embarrassing was this dumbass..?
I also think that the marriage with McAdoo has been a failure. It was always a strange union: McAdoo wants the ball thrown short and quickly; Eli's never been accurate or mechanically consistent enough to maximize the YAC potential of a West Coast style offense. If they're going to stick with Eli through 2018 and possibly beyond, the offense should be shifted radically to something based on running the ball and throwing the ball downfield off that. We already have two good tight ends on the roster, so that's a start.
McAdoo is cooked, we can all agree on that. If the next offense resembles his or is something that would traditionally be labeled as "West Coast", the Giants would probably be best served moving on from Eli in some form after this season.
What a colossal fuckup these last 5 years have been.
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And WTF was that bowling with the football fumble, yesterday?
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
How embarrassing was this dumbass..?
We haven’t won a playoff game in 6 years and only been once.
I don’t think anywhere here doesn’t appreciate Eli for the two Super Bowls, but we see the writing is on the wall and has been for two years.
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And WTF was that bowling with the football fumble, yesterday?
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
How embarrassing was this dumbass..?
Yes, Eli's two Super Bowl MVP's erase that bonehead play in yesterday's game.
The last appearance was when, six years ago? Keep living in the past, chief.
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that saying Eli is in decline is some kind of insult to the guy.
He's 37 years old. It's normal to decline. Brady is declining. To think Eli isn't capable of trending down at an age where quarterbacks usually do wind down is some homer talk.
I think Eli's an average QB right now. I think he spent most of his career in the 6-12 range (and importantly, was largely consistently in that range outside of 2013 - and even). That's not that big of a decline.
Maybe he can get back to above-average play, but I don't think he can carry an offense like he did in 2009-2011, and even 14/15.
I don't think you're wrong here. But as with everything, it's dependent on other factors. If you believe he can still be an above average QB, that's totally fine. But he needs help around him more than at any point in his career. Can this be fixed in time to make use of Eli while he's still effective? Are we going to land in the top 5 of the draft with a chance to possibly take a franchise QB prospect and pass because Eli might have 2 years left?
I am WAY closer to being an Eli homer than a detractor. I have always given him the benefit of the doubt, I have always leaned towards defending him rather than criticizing him.
I just can't sit here with a straight face while people try to claim that Eli hasn't declined at all. Come on. The guy is 36 years old. It's not a slight towards the guy - it's part of a natural career arc.
I also have said several times that I think he can still play QB in the NFL. The problem is that the longer the Giants try to win with Eli, the longer the laundry list of things they'll need in addition to Eli will also continue to lengthen.
I would be completely on board with trying to be a run-first offense that leaned more on play-action passing and defense - I just don't think the Giants can make that transformation quickly enough for it to work while Eli is still a decent QB.
And then you may be building a system that is less-ideal for the next guy if he's got a different skillset.
I think the Giants would be smart to start making plans for life after Eli sooner than later. A year too late would be far worse than a year too soon.
I'm as sentimental as anyone when it comes to Eli - but you have to remove that from the equation if you want to be truly objective here.
I think the bigger discussion is whether any of these QBs are worth the top 3-5 pick, because I think even people who don't think Eli's fallen off are willing to admit the time for an heir is nearing.
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In comment 13690895 Giants_ROK said:
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And WTF was that bowling with the football fumble, yesterday?
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
How embarrassing was this dumbass..?
Yes, Eli's two Super Bowl MVP's erase that bonehead play in yesterday's game.
The last appearance was when, six years ago? Keep living in the past, chief.
Go root for the Eagles...
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In comment 13690951 JCin332 said:
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In comment 13690895 Giants_ROK said:
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And WTF was that bowling with the football fumble, yesterday?
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
How embarrassing was this dumbass..?
Yes, Eli's two Super Bowl MVP's erase that bonehead play in yesterday's game.
The last appearance was when, six years ago? Keep living in the past, chief.
Go root for the Eagles...
You must be 14 years old
Some of you guys need to grow up.
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And WTF was that bowling with the football fumble, yesterday?
That had to be one of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen.
How embarrassing was this dumbass..?
I'm shocked he didn't fumble the Lombardi.
Some of you guys need to grow up.
Actually arc if you read those 2 dopes post the last several days you would understand my responses...
They are of the ilk of hysterical crybabies..
Here is one of ROK's posts as an example:
Giants_ROK : 11/11/2017 11:56 pm : link : reply
can't get gone fast enough.
As far as constructive maybe you shouldn't take yourself so seriously..?
I have been watching this team and going to games since the '70's and believe me the QB situation could be much worse and the odds of finding another QB like Manning are very remote...
He may be declining but I believe he still can win and is a top 10 QB...he is having as good a year as Brees and Ben but does not have their supporting casts...if he did I have no doubt the Giants would be in playoff contention...
The problem I have is how some of these so called "fans" deal with adversity...I would love to see how they deal with it in their own lives...
Tough to admit that the guy who delivered in some big spots isn't delivering anymore?
Yeah, yeah. Team sport and all that. How about the franchise player elevate the play of those around him?
He's not doing it.
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Photos of Eli from a decade ago aren't constructive responses to this debate. Nor is telling someone to go root for the Eagles just because they think Eli may be in a decline.
Some of you guys need to grow up.
Actually arc if you read those 2 dopes post the last several days you would understand my responses...
They are of the ilk of hysterical crybabies..
Here is one of ROK's posts as an example:
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That stat-compiling goofball
Giants_ROK : 11/11/2017 11:56 pm : link : reply
can't get gone fast enough.
As far as constructive maybe you shouldn't take yourself so seriously..?
I have been watching this team and going to games since the '70's and believe me the QB situation could be much worse and the odds of finding another QB like Manning are very remote...
He may be declining but I believe he still can win and is a top 10 QB...he is having as good a year as Brees and Ben but does not have their supporting casts...if he did I have no doubt the Giants would be in playoff contention...
The problem I have is how some of these so called "fans" deal with adversity...I would love to see how they deal with it in their own lives...
Ben has sucked this year. If Eli is "as good as Ben" right now, that's not a great barometer.
And dumbass on here post lists saying Ben's still a top 10 QB...
I am WAY closer to being an Eli homer than a detractor. I have always given him the benefit of the doubt, I have always leaned towards defending him rather than criticizing him.
I just can't sit here with a straight face while people try to claim that Eli hasn't declined at all. Come on. The guy is 36 years old. It's not a slight towards the guy - it's part of a natural career arc.
I also have said several times that I think he can still play QB in the NFL. The problem is that the longer the Giants try to win with Eli, the longer the laundry list of things they'll need in addition to Eli will also continue to lengthen.
I would be completely on board with trying to be a run-first offense that leaned more on play-action passing and defense - I just don't think the Giants can make that transformation quickly enough for it to work while Eli is still a decent QB.
And then you may be building a system that is less-ideal for the next guy if he's got a different skillset.
I think the Giants would be smart to start making plans for life after Eli sooner than later. A year too late would be far worse than a year too soon.
I'm as sentimental as anyone when it comes to Eli - but you have to remove that from the equation if you want to be truly objective here.
Agreed, I feel like they missed that window last year. Look Engram is a nice piece, but they needed to double down on OL. Cam Robinson or Ramczyk in the first. Then an OG in the 2nd. Instead of Engram you have Ellison and Adams, two big TEs to help run block. Maybe draft that Texas RB Foreman in the 3rd. Keep Hankins. Or Whitworth too. No to Webb, all in on Eli.
Thats all Reese. He didn't see it.
The Giants have no WR, their defense stinks, they fall behind by a lot...hence they have a lot of SOFT garbage time stats...and since they have NO WR...somebody has to get the catches.
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but even despite that, Engram is having a historic season for a rookie TE.
The Giants have no WR, their defense stinks, they fall behind by a lot...hence they have a lot of SOFT garbage time stats...and since they have NO WR...somebody has to get the catches.
Shepard was complete shit yesterday. So was Tavares King.
GoldenTee with the knowledge as usual.
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but even despite that, Engram is having a historic season for a rookie TE.
The Giants have no WR, their defense stinks, they fall behind by a lot...hence they have a lot of SOFT garbage time stats...and since they have NO WR...somebody has to get the catches.
Wasn't Engram's TD in the first half?
Britt doesn't really want to talk about football. He wants to setup trip wires he can fall into, and wig out when anyone responds.
No matter how bad the loss, how embarrassed the team gets, rest assured as the clock winds down there will be a thread praising Manning, condoning Manning, and if all else fails at least blaming other players so Manning has company.
Point of fact there is no good way to judge the logical erosion of skill of the QB with the depths of how bad this team is. If the past is any indication, aging quarterbacks don't hold up. Maybe Manning is the victim of an awful team. Maybe he's benifiting from the plausible deniability of being just one passenger in this train wreck.
What's obvious to me at least, the 2011 version of Manning brilliantly carried a flawed team to unbelievable heights. The 6 years older version isn't carrying them to more than a few victories.
The finances of the team probably dictate we'll get another chance or two to find out who this version of Manning is. The medium term cap construction should keep this team together for a few more years, they have decent coin to spend and will pick near the top in every round.
If I had to guess, Manning has enough to get a more functionally coached team on another run. But if he doesn't we certainly can bet there will be plenty of excuses.
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Dan Marino posted a 23 TD/15 INT season in 1998 at 37. He was 7th in the league in pass yards, the Dolphins finished 10-6.
By nearly any measure, people probably would have said "hey, Dan can still sling it! We can still win with him"
The very next season, he threw just 12 TD passes to 17 INT's in 11 games and wound up with a 5-6 record. His completion% and QBR hit career lows, and he was finished.
I guess that's what you guys are going to need to see before you're willing to accept that it's probably time to start planning for life beyond #10.
How many times do I have to say that I want them to draft his replacement in the first round? Is that not planning for life beyond?
As far as the decline aspect, he's healthy and never missed a game. I don't see the decline that so many state as an obvious thing to see. I find it impossible to evaluate what Eli is or isn't under these conditions. I'm frankly surprised that so many are convinced that he's in obvious decline.
I wouldn't want to evaluate what Webb is or isn't in these conditions, either.
I'd compare physical decline to baseball (if you'll allow me to compare across sports). It's not always so obvious that a hitter just strikes out all the time and goes from great to awful overnight. But all sports are a game of inches. A matter of slight degrees. In baseball, it takes a quarter of an inch to go from barreling up a middle-in fastball into the stands, to lofting it to the warning track; it takes a split second of timing to go from driving the ball into the gap to pushing it foul.
The same can be said for football. The decline for a QB is not as obvious as him coming up short on all of his throws - it can be that his release is just a split second slower which lets the defense react and takes away the YAC opportunities; it can be that he has to wind up just a little bit more on his deep ball which causes him to spray or overthrow on long passes.
Eli doesn't appear to be old and broken down, but I don't think that's the proper definition of in decline. Rather, that's the definition of absolutely finished. Are there some here who seem to think Eli falls into the latter camp and not the former? Yes, I won't deny that - there are obviously some posters who are vehemently anti-Eli. But if you're finding yourself arguing against them, you're choosing to fight against the most unreasonable position because it gives you the most shelter within your own bias (in the same way that it's much easier on the other side of the debate to point out those posters who claim that Eli has more years on his arm than on his contract).
Eli is definitely in decline, as are most QBs who reach his age (and many don't even make it as long as he has). To point to the rare exceptions like Brady, Brees or Favre isn't to prove that Eli is not declining any more than anyone else can point to players even younger than Eli who clearly did decline physically.
Could the Giants still win with Eli? Yes. A physically declining QB is not a complete obstacle to winning - we saw it with Eli's own brother who was much more obviously declining (and closer to absolutely finished) than Eli is. But we also saw Denver basically get caught with their pants down as far as being prepared for life after Peyton and now are paying the price for it while they still have a team that would likely be competitive if only they had competent QB play.
It's only prudent to prepare for life after Eli.
Thankfully this Manning has a functional arm, which gets him ahead of Broncos era Peyton.
Unfortunately the Giants don't have a generationally great defense.
Britt doesn't really want to talk about football. He wants to setup trip wires he can fall into, and wig out when anyone responds.
No matter how bad the loss, how embarrassed the team gets, rest assured as the clock winds down there will be a thread praising Manning, condoning Manning, and if all else fails at least blaming other players so Manning has company.
Point of fact there is no good way to judge the logical erosion of skill of the QB with the depths of how bad this team is. If the past is any indication, aging quarterbacks don't hold up. Maybe Manning is the victim of an awful team. Maybe he's benifiting from the plausible deniability of being just one passenger in this train wreck.
What's obvious to me at least, the 2011 version of Manning brilliantly carried a flawed team to unbelievable heights. The 6 years older version isn't carrying them to more than a few victories.
The finances of the team probably dictate we'll get another chance or two to find out who this version of Manning is. The medium term cap construction should keep this team together for a few more years, they have decent coin to spend and will pick near the top in every round.
If I had to guess, Manning has enough to get a more functionally coached team on another run. But if he doesn't we certainly can bet there will be plenty of excuses.
Sadly this is true. Not as obvious as dep but the same MO.
Just because I don't prescribe to the group think and buzz words that happen here on a regular basis....
Just like last year, when everybody called me a Coughlin lover for pointing out there was a problem with our offense as early as October, and I got shouted down.... I couldn't see that we were 11-5, McAdoo was playing his hand perfectly and purposely, we didn't need to score 20 points because we were winning.... I didn't want to talk football, I just wanted to talk about how great Coughlin was...
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The decline for a QB is not as obvious as him coming up short on all of his throws - it can be that his release is just a split second slower which lets the defense react and takes away the YAC opportunities; it can be that he has to wind up just a little bit more on his deep ball which causes him to spray or overthrow on long passes.
Now, I know I'm setting a trap for myself to fall into, here.......
But when the defense only has to rush 3 or 4 guys, and allows the other 7 or 8 guys to drop into coverage and flood all the passing lanes, and 95% of our passing plays are under 15 yards, and two of those three or four guys are getting to the QB and hitting him in the two seconds he has to release the ball.... I'd argue it's hard to evaluate exactly whether he's in decline or not.
And while I will not argue that father time of course will make somebody naturally decline physically, let's say from 31-36, I don't see the deep chasm cliff that many here claim to see and state the decline as if it's a physical, obvious decline for all to see.
If he still can physically make all the throws, and you factor in the difficult circumstances that I cited above, then I would argue it's hard to see what exactly we have in him.
Personally, I choose to base my opinion on what I've seen from him over his career, rather than speculate without much evidence on what may be happening.
As far as preparing for life after Manning, I'm all for it. I've stated to draft his replacement in the first round this year.
All I'm saying is... You draft his replacement, you let the new coach and GM get the roster straight, then you roll the dice with Manning again next year while you groom his replacement. If Manning can't get it done, you put in his replacement and move on.
I think it's a logical plan. In fact, I think everything I just posted is pretty damn logical, but I know it's doesn't appease the cut or trade Manning crowd (even though I guarantee neither of those are going to happen, but I guess they are more worthy of discussion than what actually IS going to happen, which is the likely scenario I just outlined).