Would you agree that Eli has had pretty much no weapons on offense to throw to outside of Evan Engram?
Let's look at Evan Engram in relation to the rest of the TE's in the NFL:
He's 5th in receptions with 40
He's 8th in yards with 443
He's 2nd in the league in TD's with 5
I read this morning that Evan Engram is the first rookie TE since the merger in 1970 to reach 400 yards and 5 TD's through 8 games.
So my question is this: Is Eli in decline except when he's throwing to Engram?
I also think last season's pedestrian (not bad - but not good, either) year is more of an indictment than this season. The weapons weren't all that different from 14/15. But Eli's had 'meh' years before.
My understanding of the cap stuff is that Eli will almost certainly be here next year. I can see a bounce back year for the team. I don't think we're as far off from a playoff spot as it feels right now. Better coaching, some new talent, etc. I'd be very surprised at a Browns/49ers stretch of mediocrity, unless we mess up Eli's successor.
This team will require 1-2 years to fix the woes at minimum. Let's again assume that we get lucky in the draft and pick up 1-2 stud OK. Those OK will take time to develop.
We are now talking about a 38-39 y/o QB making over $20M per season. At what point are you comfortable moving forward? Because many of us have alr easy reached that conclusion.
This team will require 1-2 years to fix the woes at minimum. Let's again assume that we get lucky in the draft and pick up 1-2 stud OK. Those OK will take time to develop.
We are now talking about a 38-39 y/o QB making over $20M per season. At what point are you comfortable moving forward? Because many of us have alr easy reached that conclusion.
I don't think it will take 2 years to rebuild. I've said it before and I've said it again, this league is built to go from worst to first in a single offseason. That's parity.
The Giants did it last year. McAdoo wasn't a good enough coach to build on it, because his offense was garbage, but with the right offensive coach, and the addition of a linemen or two, this team can compete, and there is talent on the roster on both sides.
Jerry Reese's failure has been the offensive line. A new GM might be able to come in and correct it. I don't believe we have to scrap Pugh, Richberg, and Flowers, I just think a vet or two playing next to them or in between them can make all the difference. Right now, we have crap across the board.
As for Eli, I'd draft his successor and let him play out his contract, OR until he shows he can't do the job any longer and it's time to put the rookie in and let the chips fall where they may. Warner was clearly shot when Eli was put in there, despite the 5-2 record. If Eli is performing like that, then put in the rookie next year.
But if you're winning, and Eli's playing at a level you're comfortable with, you let him keep playing until he can't. Aaron Rodgers sat for what? 3 years behind Favre? That worked out well for everybody.
Having a veteran QB of Eli's caliber is an asset to a new coach/GM, not a detriment, for multiple reasons.
A testament to any QB being able to succeed in better circumstances.
That's bullsh-t. Rodgers sat behind Favre for three years. Rivers behind Brees...
The only reason a QB is thrust into playing time without grooming him first is because that team likely didn't have a QB to begin with.
As much as people refuse to acknowledge it, having a capable Eli for another two years, as well as a high first round draft pick to use on a QB this year (and Webb too), is actually a great scenario. I'd venture to even say it's the IDEAL scenario.
A testament to any QB being able to succeed in better circumstances.
Warner is a very good example for your position on this debate, Britt. No question about that. It's worth noting, however, that Warner was only 33 during that year he spent with the Giants.
I think you can make the case on the other side that Donovan McNabb is an example of the opposite. 2008 looked like the start of the decline, then he bounced back a little bit in 2009, then fell off a cliff with Washington and Minnesota after that.
Rich Gannon went from first team All-Pro in his age 37 season to a combined 10 games and 1,800 yards passing over the next two years.
Steve Young went from a Pro Bowl season in his age 37 season (though despite excellent counting stats, his completion rate started to slip that year) to 3 games and 446 yards at age 38 (which would be his final season).
Dan Marino began his decline in 1996 at age 35, though many point to Jimmy Johnson being brought on as head coach and treating Marino as a game manager in a run-heavy scheme. What they don't realize is that in 1997, Marino led the league in attempts and completions, but his completion percentage and interceptions increased and both continued to increase in 1998 and 1999. I think Marino is probably the best example of a HOF QB being a franchise icon and how difficult it is to say goodbye.
In the interest of fairness and full disclosure, Marino's Dolphins did make the playoffs in each of his final three seasons. So that does support your argument, absolutely.
I think we have discussed this enough that, to some degree, we actually do agree. Where I disagree is the idea that "you let him play until he can't" because that's begging for another season like this one, ultimately. I don't think we'll see Eli trot himself out there like a broken down Namath on the Rams, though. I suspect he'll retire at the end of his contract or maybe even the end of next season, depending on how things go for him and the team and whether or not there is a young QB pushing him out of his role.
If I had to bet on it, I think the Giants draft a QB with their 1st round pick this coming draft and attempt to build a solid line around Eli one more time in 2018 (which also serves the purpose of giving the rookie a good line when his time comes). It does benefit the Giants to give a premium rookie QB prospect an opportunity to learn from Eli, and the convenient thing is that the way you'd build a roster to cushion a rookie QB is also the way you'd need to build the roster in order for Eli to be effective at this point.
But you're hedging your bets for when that time comes with a 1st round QB prospect and Webb waiting in the wings, learning. As soon as you see he's not capable anymore, there's your opening to put in the guy you've been grooming.
It's a win/win, and like I said, the ideal scenario for Eli, the new coach, and the new QB.
For the sake of accuracy, Marino's completion percentage decreased and his interceptions increased each year from 1996 on.
In watching him throw, I don't see any issues. The issues I see have to do with pocket presence and awareness. Logic tells me that could be remedied through an improved offensive line and (just as importantly) a different offensive system.
Regardless, the Giants should be planning for his replacement.
In watching him throw, I don't see any issues. The issues I see have to do with pocket presence and awareness. Logic tells me that could be remedied through an improved offensive line and (just as importantly) a different offensive system.
Regardless, the Giants should be planning for his replacement.
Agree with the bold and they should be seeking/planning for his replacement, as any smart business would.
Just because I don't prescribe to the group think and buzz words that happen here on a regular basis....
Just like last year, when everybody called me a Coughlin lover for pointing out there was a problem with our offense as early as October, and I got shouted down.... I couldn't see that we were 11-5, McAdoo was playing his hand perfectly and purposely, we didn't need to score 20 points because we were winning.... I didn't want to talk football, I just wanted to talk about how great Coughlin was...
You are a bad poster who doesn't want to really talk football in the immediate aftermath of games. You regularly fire off a defensive post of Manning, and then fire insults right of the bat or quickly thereafter.
It has nothing to do with group think or buzz words. You want to defend your point of view and find the most bizarre and childish moments to do it.
You've gone as far as to say we owe Eli Manning an apology. Really try that on for size dude - on an internet message board you outright said other strangers owe a complete other stranger an apology.
The point is Eli has done nothing but act with class and dignity and represented this franchise well despite being surrounded with shit talent a lot of his career...
Maybe people on here should learn something from it so they can become better at dealing with adversity...
Let me tell you how I deal with adversity: I laugh in its face.
Quote:
Got it.
Just because I don't prescribe to the group think and buzz words that happen here on a regular basis....
Just like last year, when everybody called me a Coughlin lover for pointing out there was a problem with our offense as early as October, and I got shouted down.... I couldn't see that we were 11-5, McAdoo was playing his hand perfectly and purposely, we didn't need to score 20 points because we were winning.... I didn't want to talk football, I just wanted to talk about how great Coughlin was...
You are a bad poster who doesn't want to really talk football in the immediate aftermath of games. You regularly fire off a defensive post of Manning, and then fire insults right of the bat or quickly thereafter.
It has nothing to do with group think or buzz words. You want to defend your point of view and find the most bizarre and childish moments to do it.
You've gone as far as to say we owe Eli Manning an apology. Really try that on for size dude - on an internet message board you outright said other strangers owe a complete other stranger an apology.
I think it's ironic that you mention that I start insulting everybody. I thought about that and went back and read this very long thread. I can't find one insult directed at anybody on this thread, from me. I feel like everything I posted, even though it was my opinion, was related to the conversation at hand and backed up with logic. Any questions I asked were legitimate and relevant to the discussion. In your two posts on the thread, you sit back and insult me, call me a bad poster, tell me I'm behaving in a bizarre and childlike fashion. Please point out where on this very, very long thread where I've insulted anybody?
As far as saying some fans owed Eli an apology, it was surely in the figurative sense. I did not expect anybody to actually write him a letter.
Finally, when is an appropriate time to post my feelings? This was posted at 10am Monday morning. Is that the immediate aftermath, or is there a time limit? Just checking for future reference.
Engram is Eli's safety net catching a lot of shorter passes and then doing something with them. That is great. However, what you are not capturing (in addition to some drops) are the high number of missed throws at critical times in the game. Or missed throws which would have been obvious TDs. On the stat line, it shows up as a simple incompletion.
What also does not show up in the stat line is how easy it is for teams to defend us because Eli poses no threat at all to leak out of the pocket. It absolutely changes the coverage schemes.
Now, I am not saying that we should get rid of Eli now. (We have nobody else at the moment.) However, his skills absolutely have been declining AND if the Giants do not begin planning for the NEAR future and find a quality QB who has the skill sets needed to compete in today's game, then we will be experiencing more seasons like this one.
The only way that line of thinking ends is by trying to blame everyone in the organization around the QB for not helping him enough while we watch handfuls of younger QBs step into the league and do impressive things.
The only way that line of thinking ends is by trying to blame everyone in the organization around the QB for not helping him enough while we watch handfuls of younger QBs step into the league and do impressive things.
But if you're winning, and Eli's playing at a level you're comfortable with, you let him keep playing until he can't. Aaron Rodgers sat for what? 3 years behind Favre? That worked out well for everybody.
Having a veteran QB of Eli's caliber is an asset to a new coach/GM, not a detriment, for multiple reasons.
But it's insanely hilarious that we can now judge Eli as in decline because of an imperceptible half a second delay or whatever else... While not just stating the obvious and ending this analysis because he has no one to run, no one to catch. Wow.
But it's insanely hilarious that we can now judge Eli as in decline because of an imperceptible half a second delay or whatever else... While not just stating the obvious and ending this analysis because he has no one to run, no one to catch. Wow.
Barring catastrophic injury, I agree, Eli is the starting QB in 2018. I put the chance of them trading him or cutting him at pretty much 0%.