I realize this sort of discussion has been through the mill and back on BBI, but I wanted to ask it from a nuance of a difference of angle.
The franchise seems to be on the precipice (channeling my inner Tim McCarver there) of ... well, something. The truth is,. none of us know precisely what direction things will go in the coming months, and the next few years.
While I'm a HUGE Eli Manning fan, and truly want to see things righted and watch him finish a great career in the Meadowlands, whether they win the big one with him again or not, I also understand the (a) trade Eli and/or (b) draft a top-flight QB prospect next draft.
It may be lampooned by some as not seeing the best for the ball club in the big picture, but I want to see the Mara family do this with class and choose loyalty to Eli Manning and what he's meant to this team these years. I want them to draft differently than to take a QB in the first or second .. I want to have that support firmly planted behind Eli for the next couple seasons, and I want to see an open commitment to building the O to get him another shot - regardless how it goes.
I think there's a chance we already have the next solid QB in-house, with Webb. I'd like to see him in the #2 role the rest of the way, get a few junk minutes the remainder of this season - maybe even a couple quarters toward the end - and for the club to supprt Eli first, before there's any siding with/support of Ben McAdoo.
I know there are many who want to trade him, blow it up, get Rozen or Mayfield or whomever, but I think that would be a shitty thing to do, and at best, a gamble that a college QB will be better than Webb.
I choose loyalty to Eli Manning, at the same time drafting a stud RB, a great O-line prospect, some defensive pieces and grabbing a few FAs. I think this team could be a contender next season with some tweaks, and a new coach at the helm.
With any other offense, Eli is a top 10 QB. He can still be a star in this league and will be the moment McAdoo's broken system is gone.
There's where I'm at. No reason to pick a side when you can easily do both at the same time. The question is how highly regarded the top LT will be compared to the top 1-3 QB's and how it related to the organizations thoughts on Webb.
You bring in a new regime to do what they want with a top draft pick in the offseason. If it's a QB, it's a QB.
Open camp with Eli as the starter and potentially a top QB and Webb battle it out behind him. Eli's play next season must dictate whether or not he continues, no consideration of the streak beyond this season.
Fire Reese. Fire McAdoo. Draft new QB of the future with first round pick (which I expect will be a top 3 pick, and currently would be the second overall pick). Also draft O-Line and get solid new C, RG and RT on the roster, at minimum.
Let Eli play out his contract. Treat him with respect the whole way. Let the new kid learn and hold the clipboard for AT LEAST a year, if not two. Let Webb push the new kid as competition (like Cousins did with RGIII).
That's my preferred approach.
Draft a QB if we think it's a franchise guy. Let him and Webb learn from Eli.
Improves the team, maybe win next year, and have a future with the young guns..............
This is what I think will happen, and what I'd want to happen.
My opinion ... it can't be a HARD both because if you draft a QB first, you're stepping over valuable tools for the future AND to help Eli end on an upswing.
Again, I think we may have the next QB sitting in meetings with Manning now.
I'm not obsessed with one player. Just being real - he's been the most important player to the franchise for the past several years. He deserves respect and to end his career in blue. I don't want to see another Phil Simms situation. That would really be shameful.
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Not someone obsessed with one player. Definitely time to start over in many aspects with this franchise, as much as it sucks. But it's past time. Anyone who can't see it is on another planet.
I'm not obsessed with one player. Just being real - he's been the most important player to the franchise for the past several years. He deserves respect and to end his career in blue. I don't want to see another Phil Simms situation. That would really be shameful.
Everything has to end at some point. The team comes first and the team will always put itself and it's future first. Has nothing to do with any one player. Just the way it goes.
Letting Eli go to a team that could win is the best we could do for him at this point.
Eli is not elite anymore. Does anyone question that still? A more mobile QB may make mistakes but how much worse is that than the performance that the team is getting from Eli while under the onslaught each year. Who cares about fault. The reality is what can Eli do with this team over the next year? Perhaps win a couple of games that a younger QB won’t but he is not getting this group to the SB.
In fact, with serious high round needs at Guard, Guard, Linebacker, possibly corner(s), DT, DE, RB possibly OT, there is an argument that one needs to keep the existing roster QBs for a year while they address the lines, the backers, and the backs etc etc etc.
Get rid of the bums that quit; fix the Oline; get a decent #2 WR (unless it is Engram); get a real running back.
Building a great OL takes some investment. Maybe an RB and a LB.
That all takes time to form.
Coach 'X' will be better able to see what the QB style fits all that -after it exists- rather than trying to guess how it will be before hand.
There are maybe 9 positions that could be legit rd one needs next draft.....9!
Blow up the entire coaching staff and front office, start anew and build around Eli - if he craps the bed and ends up sucking then in 2 years draft your QB of the future. You'll already have a good roster around him after 2 years of better drafts and signings from a competent staff.
I think no matter what they do they're going to need 4 years or so to right the ship but Eli gives them the best chance of catching lightning in a bottle and going on a run in the middle of a "rebuild"
With so many of Eli's passes looking the same, sailing on him, he might be fixed by a good QB coach, seems to me like it's half mental (shellshocked) and half mechanical.
No debate.
Blow up the farm and start over. That was then, this is now. I love and appreciate Manning as much as the next Giants fan but I can see the forest for the trees.
My ideal scenario would be fire Reese/fire Ben, draft Darnold or Rosen in the top 3, turnover the roster with a new GM, keep Eli on for 1 more go at it and if we make the playoffs or something great, if not, let the heir take over the controls at the start of the 2019 season.
If the rookie outplays him in camp and preseason, or within the first few weeks Eli appears to be done, you put the rookie in.
worthless stats. Opposing Ds will give him the short stuff all day. They can't score
I'd rather take seasons like 2010 where he threw a ton of picks but made plays downfield. And agiants were a top 10 scoring team year over year.
Now, the second part depends on the first. If the new GM and/or HC are keen on taking a QB in the draft, then they should trade Eli. However, I would rather trade down for more picks and stock the OL, LB, and DB positions. Also, bring in at least one 1st tier FA OL. With a decent OL in place and a good HC and OC, Eli is good for another 2-3 years. They can address QB in another year or two.
With any other offense, Eli is a top 10 QB. He can still be a star in this league and will be the moment McAdoo's broken system is gone.
We need to take a QB early this year. Eli is not a top 10 QB anymore, though he can be successful in the right system.
The question is whether Eli is a QB who can run the show, or whether there are better options.
Us fans don't know if Webb is a contender for next year. The coaches see him in practice, but we don't. He's not #2 now, so don't count on him being #1 next year. realistically, IF the coaches view him as a successor, elevate him to #2 next year, then #1 the next year, and ride Eli until then.
IF you don't see Webb as anything more than a #2, grab a QB with our top 5 draft slot, presuming there's one worthy of the pick. The timing is perfect. let him ride the pine for a year behind Eli.
Two things you do NOT do: do not count on Eli for more than his current contract, and do not build a team predicated on win now. Don't keep McAdoo just for continuity sake if you don't think he's the coach of the future. If you can draft a franchise QB, do it. Your window of opportunity expands a decade instead of pinning your hopes on a 2 year window, maybe 3, with Eli.
Blow it up is a bogus term. If you have quality players, keep them. Don't overpay them (looking at you, Pugh). If you have players that can be upgraded, upgrade. It's called normal operation of a football team. You should always be looking to maintain the good, and improve the bad.
The question is whether Eli is a QB who can run the show, or whether there are better options.
Us fans don't know if Webb is a contender for next year. The coaches see him in practice, but we don't. He's not #2 now, so don't count on him being #1 next year. realistically, IF the coaches view him as a successor, elevate him to #2 next year, then #1 the next year, and ride Eli until then.
IF you don't see Webb as anything more than a #2, grab a QB with our top 5 draft slot, presuming there's one worthy of the pick. The timing is perfect. let him ride the pine for a year behind Eli.
Two things you do NOT do: do not count on Eli for more than his current contract, and do not build a team predicated on win now. Don't keep McAdoo just for continuity sake if you don't think he's the coach of the future. If you can draft a franchise QB, do it. Your window of opportunity expands a decade instead of pinning your hopes on a 2 year window, maybe 3, with Eli.
Blow it up is a bogus term. If you have quality players, keep them. Don't overpay them (looking at you, Pugh). If you have players that can be upgraded, upgrade. It's called normal operation of a football team. You should always be looking to maintain the good, and improve the bad.
However, if Webb is not viewed as even a potential solution down the road, then they have to at least seriously consider picking a QB. If they do, I would trade Eli for more picks.
Regardless of which route they take, Reese and McAdoo better both be gone.
Eli has made more than a hundred million dollars playing for the Giants. The team and the great majority of fans have been more than fair to him, which he has deserved for his hard work, durability and success. When they bring in new management, their decision should be based entirely on what is good for the team going forward, and nothing else.
This is exactly what happened when Coughlin came in. They drafted Eli, but Coughlin decided what to do with Collins (who saw the writing on the wall and split) and eventually Warner (who agreed to keep the seat warm for Eli).
If his last name wasn't Manning, everyone would be ripping him to shreds.
He has always been a slightly above average QB, who cam through in clutch 2X.
Look at the rest of his record.
The case could be made if Plaxico doesn't'shoot himself and team in leg, maybe another SB. But, that is the past.
Eli still fumbles way too often, and throws too many INT's. he is not 25.
It is time to move on.
1- It is an excellent year in the draft to obtain a franchise QB.
2- We are in the perfect draft position to take one without even moving.
3- Eli is at the end of his career and you don't build around a 37 year old QB, plus he is still good enough to trade, so trade him this off season and get something for him, he will waive his no trade clause when he sees the Giants are moving on. he don't want to sit the bench, plus Jacksonville is waiting, they have the worst QB in the league in Bortles.
time to rebuild. eli is the most overrated QB as judged by his peers and there is a good reason for that - he can't move, his accuracy is inconsistent especially on deep balls and he turns the ball over at a high percentage relative to his peers.
Do what KC has done draft a QB and let him sit or beat out Eli.
Either way Eli plays out his contract and retires or moves on.
If you draft a QB that is actually better or more promising than Eli this will make this an easy decision.
Problem is Webb is not that guy. If we drafted Mahomes or Watson last draft they would be playing now.
As long as Eli remains the best option he will start as it should be. But you don't trade or release your best option without a backup plan.
This. And yes it can be both. G’aints have, without a doubt, the worst coaching staff in the entire NFL. You ship every G’aints player to New England and I promise you they’d be Giants again. There is talent on the this team. Dear God, the Niners had 26 players injured yesterday and came in with the worst offense in the NFL and they hung almost 500 yards on the G’aints defense. This team is lost in all three phases of the game. Fire Reese and the entire coaching and start over. Of course draft a QB with the first pick - Eli isn’t a kid. But there’s enough talent on this team to be competitive - all we need is a real coaching staff
In that vein I would like to see the Giants try to re-structure Eli and free up cap space, then be agressive in FA to strengthen the OL and possibly acquire a real, play-making, MLB that can stay on the field.
1. Draft Saquon Barkley
2. Draft/FA Playmaker MLB
3. Draft FA several OL to build strong front
4. Get rid of Spags/MacAdoo and if you must Reese though he
can't be blamed for not being able to pull OL/LB'ers out of his ass.
Then let Eli continue to groom the kid for a year or two or three or even four, each of those years adding strength to the OL and DL via the draft and FA when possible.
New GM gets to pick his coach. And the new GM/coach get to
Build the roster.
If they think a few more years of Eli are worthwhile, great.
If they think it’s time now to move on, that works for me as well.
Unfortunately, I fear that keeping Eli at QB will be a prerequisite to the GM and coaching selections.
Fire Reese and most of his staff.
Fire HC, OC, DC and Quinn.
For GM maybe get that drunk the Skins fired.
Let Eli play two more years get Webb ready take the RB
Barkley he will help Webb immensely we need help in the trenches and at LB .. But there are plenty of good players left to get right back into it .
Webbs not gonna be ready next season but make him the back up this wasted Geno vs Josh thing was infuriating waste.
The guys age is just a number and he will be playing and playing well for at least 3 years. People discuss the guy like he's taken a beating and been hurt. He's in great shape, still has a gun, still has touch..... I'm just happy the owners are not in a hurry to cut his career short. He is part of why the team will be good again soon.
Maybe the best thing for Eli isn't coming back here to get physically walloped and crapped on by analysts every week during a rebuilding process, but instead, to go somewhere with a chance to win RIGHT NOW.
It's not what I want, but the thought has started creeping into my head.
Main thing is they need a new strategic direction that creates a tough, athletic and competitive roster on both sides of the field and in particular in the trenches. Reese is a solid draft evaluator but a terrible roster builder. After 10 years I'm pretty certain of that. The Maras need to hire a football guy with experience running things, then put that person in charge of finding the next coach and restructuring the organization going forward. Maybe Reese can still be GM under that person, but he cannot be in control.
The guys age is just a number and he will be playing and playing well for at least 3 years. People discuss the guy like he's taken a beating and been hurt. He's in great shape, still has a gun, still has touch..... I'm just happy the owners are not in a hurry to cut his career short. He is part of why the team will be good again soon.
I mean he’s the quarterback, when things go bad your name is gonna come up. He’s on this roster maybe one more year, no chance it’s three
I think the Giants owe him the choice to:
STATUS QUO,
ASK HIM : IF THEY FIND A PARTNER, WOULD HE WAIVE THE N-T-C FOR THE SAKE OF THE GIANTS, EVEN HIS SAKE IF THE RIGHT PARTNER,
WOULD HE WAIVE THE N-T-C AND GO WHEREVER THE PARTNER MAY BE(A TRADE FEELER).
OR
the alternative, cut him ,take the cap hit, he's on his own(hardass and I dont think owners would let that happen).