Neuheisel was on the Dan Patrick Show earlier.
Among things he said, he placed Mayfield at the top of his list at this point. Said the guy is a worker, a leader, has the edge you want and he's hungry as hell.
Talked about Rozen, too. Said he has the tools you want a young QB to have, but also said he's not sure that football is "as important" to Rozen as it might need to be.
Said he isn't convinced Rozen would come in with a pure focus on having a Hall of Fame career, while he said he believes Mayfield would be that, and then some.
Just wanted to share.
A comfortable pocket passer, strong arm, easily extends the play, can run, accurate, smart, big, passion for the game, etc etc
But I don't see us drafting top 5 again for a while. Throw out Russell and maybe Zach, and who is winning without a Lottery QB?
I thought for sure we have one more ring from Eli, and we might still.
But you have to take advantage of this opportunity, for the next 15 years. 2018 has been projected for 2 years as one of the best ever QB classes.
The others, may look the part, but what is the prototypical QB moving forward. Baker Mayfield is special. I would take the shot.
Agreed. One common denominator about the Giants, especially Reese, is that they draft a lot of "high ceiling," "low floor" players. That isn't to say that Allen isn't talented. He has a John Elway like arm, and can flick it downfield with just his wrist like Marino. He's also incredibly mobile. He lost about 45 TDs worth of production from last year, and is also constantly running for his life.
He did hurt his arm on Saturday, and I wonder if the Giants would use a top five pick on a QB from Wyoming.
Rosen is more pro ready, but Allen has a greater skill set. Rosen also has his own concerns.
If Darnold stays in school, the Browns will probably take Rosen. That would leave the Giants with Allen or Mayfield. My guess is that they would take Allen, unless they decided to stay with Webb.
But I don't see us drafting top 5 again for a while. Throw out Russell and maybe Zach, and who is winning without a Lottery QB?
I thought for sure we have one more ring from Eli, and we might still.
But you have to take advantage of this opportunity, for the next 15 years. 2018 has been projected for 2 years as one of the best ever QB classes.
The others, may look the part, but what is the prototypical QB moving forward. Baker Mayfield is special. I would take the shot.
Who is Zach?
He has all the skills. He can run, he is big and strong, has a great release, can make all the throws, and is very accurate.
Ive already done a thread on Nelson, Chubb is a blue chip DE. You only get a chance to get these guys at the beginning of their careers one way - at the very top of the draft.
Wonder if we can get him in round 2
Ive already done a thread on Nelson, Chubb is a blue chip DE. You only get a chance to get these guys at the beginning of their careers one way - at the very top of the draft.
agree. I think Webb is as god as any of the top QB's.
Just found this on Wikipedia, and while it may be nothing, I just hope Mayfield doesn't wind up being Johnny Football Part II.
"On February 25, 2017, Mayfield was arrested in Washington County, Arkansas on public intoxication and fleeing charges.[34] The charges included public intoxication, disorderly conduct, fleeing and resisting arrest. At 2:29 a.m. that Saturday, a police officer was flagged down on an assault and battery report. The person who flagged the officer was yelling at Mayfield. The preliminary police report described Mayfield as unable to walk straight, having slurred speech and food covering the front of his shirt. When he was asked to stay so the police could get a statement, Mayfield began shouting obscenities and "causing a scene". Mayfield was booked at 8:21 a.m. local time on the misdemeanor charges. He had a court date on April 7 for the public intoxication charge, he pleaded not guilty to all charges.[35] On June 15, 2017, the University of Oklahoma ordered Mayfield to undergo 35 hours of community service along with completing an alcohol education program."
Could just be kid crap, but if there's any other hint it's an established problem, he'd be a big mistake.
Will Grier - ( New Window )
Do you think maybe the Browns are wishing they took Carson Wentz or DeShaun Watson (obviously without the injury) right now? Well they have Myles Garrett.
The Texans have other injuries too, but look at their team since Watson was injured yet they still have Jadeveon Clowney.
Do you think maybe the Browns are wishing they took Carson Wentz or DeShaun Watson (obviously without the injury) right now? Well they have Myles Garrett.
The Texans have other injuries too, but look at their team since Watson was injured yet they still have Jadeveon Clowney.
Perfectly reasonable stance but I’m of the camp that thinks Webb is just as good a prospect as these QBs. And I still think Eli can play. If we didnt have Webb I’d agree.
Do you think maybe the Browns are wishing they took Carson Wentz or DeShaun Watson (obviously without the injury) right now? Well they have Myles Garrett.
The Texans have other injuries too, but look at their team since Watson was injured yet they still have Jadeveon Clowney.
I LOVE ELI, but he's 37 January 3rd. You can't pass on a potential Franchise Quarterback. Or do we have to be reminded of pre- Eli, or pre Phil Simms.
If that's the case (you do not believe any of the QB's available when you pick are future franchise QB's) then of course you have options, but it's the one position on the field I'd get strongly behind trading up for as opposed to letting the draft unfold.
Was like the 8th or 9th rated QB out of HS, and my understanding has been rock steady at OK State. 6'5", 230 for the size queens. Never seen him play. Input anyone?
But first we need to scrap the front office as well as the west coast offense and get back to Giants football, i.e. Smashmouth Football. The requires addressing both the OL and DL. If you do not control the line of scrimmage on either side of the ball you're not going to win when it counts.
I'm not sure any of the Big 12 QB's are that good frankly. For example, every year Texas Tech has a QB lighting it up as does West Virginia, yet these guys almost never make it (we'll see about Mahommes).
This was said before the 2016 draft. Goff and Wentz were drafted 1 and 2. It's possible both of them may finish in the top 5 voting for MVP this season.
This was said before the 2017 draft. Watson was taken 12. Had he stayed healthy, who knows what the Texans season could have been.
Maybe these "scouts" that are evaluating these QB's recently are shitty?
It's as if "scouts" can't seem to evaluate a guy unless he's John Elway, Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning where it's so obvious you can't help but notice.
10 years ago today, Andre Woodson was a first round pick and Brian Brohm was a can't miss franchise QB.
Until teams closely examine these guys releases, mechanics, footwork, etc. conduct interviews, watch post-season all-star games, and have the combine, it's all semi-meaningless and then you see who is actually coming out for the draft.
I'm not sure any of the Big 12 QB's are that good frankly. For example, every year Texas Tech has a QB lighting it up as does West Virginia, yet these guys almost never make it (we'll see about Mahommes).
But PP, TCU is Big 12, and he just lit them up.
Link - ( New Window )
Increasingly i'm liking Mayfield and wanting to see him in Giants blue and trying to seriously access the risks. Sure there are less short QBs, You even heard worries about Watson at 6'3. But as I put some deeper thought into it do short QBs flame out at a hire rate really? Wilson and Brees are two of the top QBs in the NFL. Sure there are more tall QBs perhaps for no other reason than it's hard to see over the line and if you are smaller getting tackled by 250-300 pound people consistently probably shortens your shelf life.
That being said, if you can perform with these disadvantages doesn't that say more about your intangibles than anything? In terms of sheer numbers there are more tall QBs that have been successful but no doubt many more have failed in the NFL after being drafted. For every Eric Crouch there are a great many Ryan Leaf's or Mark Sanchezes. This perceived problem for short QBs could be the result of poor actual data analysis. Are there any real numbers to back it up? Do short QBs have a higher bust rate. If anything they may in fact posses a deeper value because you can grab them later in the draft vs. those with prototypical size.
I like the idea of grabbing a beast like that and having him and Webb compete for Eli's old job. If we had the choice between him and Darnold, it wpuld be just like arguing Big Ben v. Eli all over again. I think I would lean towards Darnold, but would be thrilled with Allen too. Really want no part of Mayfield or Jackson. Those guys are going to be injured all the time.
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Give me Bradley Chubb or Quenton Nelson. Hopefully we are picking #1 and can trade down and still get 1 of those 2.
Ive already done a thread on Nelson, Chubb is a blue chip DE. You only get a chance to get these guys at the beginning of their careers one way - at the very top of the draft.
agree. I think Webb is as god as any of the top QB's.
Sy'56 disagrees. Webb isn't on their level.
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In comment 13689928 Powerclean765 said:
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Give me Bradley Chubb or Quenton Nelson. Hopefully we are picking #1 and can trade down and still get 1 of those 2.
Ive already done a thread on Nelson, Chubb is a blue chip DE. You only get a chance to get these guys at the beginning of their careers one way - at the very top of the draft.
agree. I think Webb is as god as any of the top QB's.
Sy'56 disagrees. Webb isn't on their level.
So would most other people, because it's an absurd statement.
Understood, and we'll see more when they potentially are in the playoff this year. But he also walked into Columbus and lit up a pretty good Ohio State defense (the Iowa debacle last week not withstanding)
Eli was cited for intoxication in college.
Increasingly i'm liking Mayfield and wanting to see him in Giants blue and trying to seriously access the risks. Sure there are less short QBs, You even heard worries about Watson at 6'3. But as I put some deeper thought into it do short QBs flame out at a hire rate really? Wilson and Brees are two of the top QBs in the NFL. Sure there are more tall QBs perhaps for no other reason than it's hard to see over the line and if you are smaller getting tackled by 250-300 pound people consistently probably shortens your shelf life.
That being said, if you can perform with these disadvantages doesn't that say more about your intangibles than anything? In terms of sheer numbers there are more tall QBs that have been successful but no doubt many more have failed in the NFL after being drafted. For every Eric Crouch there are a great many Ryan Leaf's or Mark Sanchezes. This perceived problem for short QBs could be the result of poor actual data analysis. Are there any real numbers to back it up? Do short QBs have a higher bust rate. If anything they may in fact posses a deeper value because you can grab them later in the draft vs. those with prototypical size.
So you're point is that out of 32 NFL teams, 2 have considerably short QBs and that the vast vast VAST majority of short NFL QBs do not make it in the NFL? You also seem to try and equivocate that with the fact that most teams go for taller QBs and that the majority of taller QBs also fail? Brilliant.
Considering the VAST majority of QBs that are successful are 6'3 and taller, I am going to go ahead and lean towards the tall boys.
Lets look at the qbs of the last 15 Super Bowls:
Tom Brady- 6'4
Matt Ryan- 6'4
Cam Newton- 6'5
Peyton Manning- 6'5
Russell Wilson- 5'11
Joe Flacco- 6'6
Colin Kaepernick- 6'4
Eli Manning- 6'4
Aaron Rodgers- 6'2
Ben Roethlisberger- 6'5
Drew Brees- 6'0
Matt Hasselback- 6'4
Donovan McNabb- 6'2
Jake Delhomme- 6'2
Brad Johnson- 6'5
Rich Gannon- 6'3
Kurt Warner- 6'2
Kerry Collins- 6'5
Trent Dilfer- 6'4
Steve mcnair- 6'2
John elway- 6'3
Chris Chandler- 6'4
Brett Favre- 6'2
Troy Aikman- 6'4
Neil O'Donnell- 6'3
I went 20 just to further my point. 2 QBs 6' or under in the past 20 years have played in the super bowl. Thats pretty damning. Gimme the beef.
he will play in the NFL if for some reason we took him
I wouldn't be upset but I am entrenched in the Barkley
sweepstakes there is a certain kind of special in him really
the last guy I felt that way about was Herschel Walker but
Zeke Elliott was another . Glad we did.t take that jack ass
End up with an extra pick help the O-line get the best
center in the draft Richberg is not working out .
The best prospect, I think, is Josh Allen - from a physical standpoint. The guy has a great release and can easily make every throw on the planet. It's just so hard to determine how much the lack of talent at Wyoming is the reason for his ordinary year. If you think he's coach-able, trust his attitude, and see a high ceiling, this is your guy...
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does anyone have any hard statistics on this? I would be interested in real numbers if anyone has a source.
Increasingly i'm liking Mayfield and wanting to see him in Giants blue and trying to seriously access the risks. Sure there are less short QBs, You even heard worries about Watson at 6'3. But as I put some deeper thought into it do short QBs flame out at a hire rate really? Wilson and Brees are two of the top QBs in the NFL. Sure there are more tall QBs perhaps for no other reason than it's hard to see over the line and if you are smaller getting tackled by 250-300 pound people consistently probably shortens your shelf life.
That being said, if you can perform with these disadvantages doesn't that say more about your intangibles than anything? In terms of sheer numbers there are more tall QBs that have been successful but no doubt many more have failed in the NFL after being drafted. For every Eric Crouch there are a great many Ryan Leaf's or Mark Sanchezes. This perceived problem for short QBs could be the result of poor actual data analysis. Are there any real numbers to back it up? Do short QBs have a higher bust rate. If anything they may in fact posses a deeper value because you can grab them later in the draft vs. those with prototypical size.
So you're point is that out of 32 NFL teams, 2 have considerably short QBs and that the vast vast VAST majority of short NFL QBs do not make it in the NFL? You also seem to try and equivocate that with the fact that most teams go for taller QBs and that the majority of taller QBs also fail? Brilliant.
Considering the VAST majority of QBs that are successful are 6'3 and taller, I am going to go ahead and lean towards the tall boys.
Lets look at the qbs of the last 15 Super Bowls:
Tom Brady- 6'4
Matt Ryan- 6'4
Cam Newton- 6'5
Peyton Manning- 6'5
Russell Wilson- 5'11
Joe Flacco- 6'6
Colin Kaepernick- 6'4
Eli Manning- 6'4
Aaron Rodgers- 6'2
Ben Roethlisberger- 6'5
Drew Brees- 6'0
Matt Hasselback- 6'4
Donovan McNabb- 6'2
Jake Delhomme- 6'2
Brad Johnson- 6'5
Rich Gannon- 6'3
Kurt Warner- 6'2
Kerry Collins- 6'5
Trent Dilfer- 6'4
Steve mcnair- 6'2
John elway- 6'3
Chris Chandler- 6'4
Brett Favre- 6'2
Troy Aikman- 6'4
Neil O'Donnell- 6'3
I went 20 just to further my point. 2 QBs 6' or under in the past 20 years have played in the super bowl. Thats pretty damning. Gimme the beef.
I'm sorry but I think you missed my point and I specifically asked for hard numbers on bust rate relative to draft position. You are drawing conclusions without the proper data which is the exact kind of cursory non-scientific analysis that I've seen harped on time and time again.
Let's just draw the line at 6 feet and use you metric super bowl appearances. Do you know the average and/or median number of super bowl appearances for QBs that are 6 feet or below and above? You can't look at the total number as the indicator because the number of QBs above 6 feet is much larger meaning the sheer number of success stories will be higher but that is also true for busts. The ratio is the question. I bet if you cut that number down to those that also played in training camp as QBs (which Mayfiled undoubtably will) and the numbers would be even better.
I'm not saying I know this answer. Perhaps I'll look into it later this week. But you have not provided anywhere close to sufficient evidence to disprove my thesis that success RATE as an NFL QB relative to draft position is more favorable for QBs above 6 feet.
Didn't Elisha have an 'embarrassing' issue also?
Height?
Put him in WWE style 2 inch lift shoes. Tell NFL its to correct a foot condition.
Giants wont take him.
And that's the 2nd time I heard about Rosens Cutler attitude toward football. While he may be the best and may end up great you also may be drafting a Marinovich or Leaf.
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when you have a chance at the franchise QB you take the QB, fuck this DE, trade down (which is ridiculous in Giants land) or RB crap.
Do you think maybe the Browns are wishing they took Carson Wentz or DeShaun Watson (obviously without the injury) right now? Well they have Myles Garrett.
The Texans have other injuries too, but look at their team since Watson was injured yet they still have Jadeveon Clowney.
Perfectly reasonable stance but I’m of the camp that thinks Webb is just as good a prospect as these QBs. And I still think Eli can play. If we didnt have Webb I’d agree.
Even if he is chances are he still is not a franchise qb. You still take the QB, develop both. Hope 1 becomes the guy. If that saves decades of searching its worth it.
Even if he is cha
I'm looking forward to seeing how he fares in the college football playoffs, assuming Oklahoma is in. I think if he presents himself well against a team like Alabama, then he will not doubt propel himself into the top QB taken in next years draft.
It's just way too big of a gamble.