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The Narrative That Makes No Sense

Emil : 11/13/2017 4:23 pm
I enjoy the sports Pope as much as any on this board, but his dislike of OBJ has jumped the shark. And it's not just him, as I've heard it from fans too.

Francessa's take is that OBJ has negatively influenced this team with his "the rules don't apply to me" behavior that it has made this team into a bunch of Odell Beckham Jr. Jr's, which has prevented them from righting the ship, and encouraged the revolt against the coach.

Ok, that sounds like a nice segment for a bad movie, but isn't it more likely that Janoris Jenkins is a well known head case, was kicked off his team in college, and despite his talent the Rams were ok with letting him walk? Isn't it more likely that he is a negative influence on the team?

How about Eli Apple? The young man has taken plays off nearly all year. Wants no part of contact the past few weeks, and has insulted the organization's culture.

There are other players, but I don't need to beat a dead horse. Blaming OBJ for the current play of the team, because the organization didn't punish the star WR for excessive celebration penalties last year and this year absolves these highly paid players of their own actions and horrible play. Never mind that OBJ has not been part of this team since early October, and when he was part of the team, the other players clearly fed off of his superior play. I get it, many hate OBJ, and Francessa really hates him. But trying to say the kid gloves the organization treated him with is the reason the defensive secondary has quit on the season is a manufactured narrative in order to perpetuate the sports Pope's opinions.

After watching yesterday, give me 11 OBJs, at least they wouldn't quit.
I don't think people know  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2017 4:25 pm : link
what jump the shark means.

Every man is responsible for his own actions.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/13/2017 4:25 pm : link
Blaming Beckham for others is stupid.
I think he is a lot to deal with & sucks up energy..  
Sean : 11/13/2017 4:26 pm : link
Other players needing to answer questions for him. It is also fair to say he has not been disciplined & that can cause resentment in the locker room.
Unless Odell didn't show up for practice one day or walked off the  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/13/2017 4:32 pm : link
field because he was mad at a coach, how are his actions and the actions of some of these defensive players comparable? I'm loathe to put Odell and Eli Apple in the same fucking sentence.
I wouldn't put it past Mike  
bceagle05 : 11/13/2017 4:35 pm : link
to make up some bullshit about "sources" who have mentioned the players don't like the treatment Beckham gets just so he can say "I told you so."
the Beckham stuff is immature kid stuff. He pushed to find the limits  
Victor in CT : 11/13/2017 4:38 pm : link
and found there were none. for him. that's not his fault, it's the coaches and managements fault for not disciplining him early on. but I would never call him a quitter.

That said, in the shape they are in, it might be worth it to quietly see what they could get for him.
One of Reese's criteria for selecting players is youth  
Rjanyg : 11/13/2017 4:39 pm : link
I believe Flowers, OBJ and Apple all were juniors and 21 years old or younger. There seems to be a maturity issue with all 3 of these players. With OBJ it seems he can't control his emotions, with Apple his effort and technique are bad which would lead me to believe he doesn't accept coaching and with Flowers it just seems to be able to handle the pressure of his position.

Reese is definitely part of the problem because I believe he puts certain criteria, like upside and youth over proven production and experience. What ever happened to drafting captains by the way?
i think itís more likely the reverse is true  
PerpetualNervousness : 11/13/2017 4:41 pm : link
there isnít a guy on that team who isnít trying harder to win on every play than beckham. he may go too far but he never quits. without him around thereís nobody with any fire around the team.
Mike has had beefs with  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/13/2017 4:44 pm : link
Giants in the past, notably Strahan & Shockey. Once you're in The Pope's doghouse, you're there for life.
OBJ  
Bluesbreaker : 11/13/2017 4:45 pm : link
Right now with the state of this team I would consider
moving OBJ and this kid is one of the most competitive hard working players you could ask not to mention his skill set is 2nd to none . You could argue that if some team offered a boatload of picks . Your giving yourself a chance to do a pretty damn good rebuild in this upcoming draft plenty of talent out there . Barkley would replace a lot of the excitement that Odell provides likely at a better cost
but its gambling on Webb being a decent starter .
Getting back to the power run game we had with Bradshaw and Jacobs with a line that can pass protect and give the
GOAT QB another shot at a ring .
Beckham's on IR.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/13/2017 4:48 pm : link
He's not around. How is his behavior or the Giants' accommodation of it responsible for the mess we've seen since he went down? The other guys resented him? Ok, he's gone. Step up, guys, you got what you wanted.

Guys?

Anyone?
Not once have I ever seen OBJ not give 100% on the field  
montanagiant : 11/13/2017 4:58 pm : link
What we see out there right now is a team of players who know they have a lame-duck Coaching Staff and no shot for anything but 7 more games. They have the mindset of protecting themselves because what's the point of risking getting hurt.

Now that does not address the problems that lead to our horrid start prior to all the WR injuries. There was something going on in that locker room that made the players revolt against the Coaching staff. It could have been they don't buy into the schemes, it could be they don't have any say, it could be any number of things but really what it boils down to is that there were issues from game one and that falls on the Coaches

NONE of this teams issues and problems stem from OBJ
Odell Beckham didn't make the defense quit  
Greg from LI : 11/13/2017 5:01 pm : link
Such silliness
If we had 22 OBJ's,  
Keith : 11/13/2017 5:07 pm : link
we'd win a lot of SB's.
RE: Beckham's on IR.  
djstat : 11/13/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13690722 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
He's not around. How is his behavior or the Giants' accommodation of it responsible for the mess we've seen since he went down? The other guys resented him? Ok, he's gone. Step up, guys, you got what you wanted.

Guys?

Anyone?
. People like excuses
RE: If we had 22 OBJ's,  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13690763 Keith said:
Quote:
we'd win a lot of SB's.


it would be a unique formation, that's for sure.

I think teams would be able to run on that defense though.
RE: One of Reese's criteria for selecting players is youth  
jbeintherockies : 11/13/2017 5:17 pm : link
In comment 13690703 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
I believe Flowers, OBJ and Apple all were juniors and 21 years old or younger. There seems to be a maturity issue with all 3 of these players. With OBJ it seems he can't control his emotions, with Apple his effort and technique are bad which would lead me to believe he doesn't accept coaching and with Flowers it just seems to be able to handle the pressure of his position.

Reese is definitely part of the problem because I believe he puts certain criteria, like upside and youth over proven production and experience. What ever happened to drafting captains by the way?

I think Coughlin was trying to tell Reese and Ross something. I don't think Reese and Ross take leadership into account when putting together the draft board. They seem to think coaching will compensate for leadership and a lack of quality coaching/technique coming out of college.

Like Reese says, coach em up.
RE: RE: If we had 22 OBJ's,  
Keith : 11/13/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13690776 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13690763 Keith said:


Quote:


we'd win a lot of SB's.



it would be a unique formation, that's for sure.

I think teams would be able to run on that defense though.


Yeah but we'd score 1M points so we win?
RE: OBJ  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/13/2017 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13690714 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
Right now with the state of this team I would consider
moving OBJ and this kid is one of the most competitive hard working players you could ask not to mention his skill set is 2nd to none . You could argue that if some team offered a boatload of picks . Your giving yourself a chance to do a pretty damn good rebuild in this upcoming draft plenty of talent out there . Barkley would replace a lot of the excitement that Odell provides likely at a better cost
but its gambling on Webb being a decent starter .
Getting back to the power run game we had with Bradshaw and Jacobs with a line that can pass protect and give the
GOAT QB another shot at a ring .

GOAT QB? Whatever you're on, you should share it.
I think he's saying the problem isn't necessarily Beckham  
Go Terps : 11/13/2017 5:23 pm : link
It's that Beckham was allowed to be a dipshit without repercussion.

That's on the coaches (including and especially Coughlin) and the front office.
the narrative makes plenty of sense  
bluepepper : 11/13/2017 5:25 pm : link
from Francesa's perspective. Ripping into Eli Apple or Janoris Jenkins is great but ripping into OBJ makes for much better radio. He's a lightning rod and Francesa's known it since early on and has milked it for all it's worth. What the truth is has nothing do with anything when it comes to guys like him.
It only takes..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/13/2017 5:28 pm : link
an unfounded theory to take root by appearing to show causation that doesn't exist.

People continue to say that OBJ's behavior is a distraction, even though he's been gone several weeks because it can't be refuted. The guy does odd celebrations, so he's clearly a distraction. Nevermind the fact that he isn't around, try and refute that his antics don't hurt the teaum.

It can be easily done, but you're dealing with idiots who don't have a clue and don't seem particularly interested in getting one.

Probably the same people that are convinced Eli is hurting our WR's and if a different guy was in that OBJ would be healthy.

Which would be a conundrum in itself!!
Agree. Beckham Needs to Grow Up A Little  
clatterbuck : 11/13/2017 5:30 pm : link
but he practices hard, works hard, and is passionate about winning. He is a uniquely talented kid with an outsized personality. He is not the root of the Giants problem and it's typical of Francesa to make something up and bloviate about it incessantly.
RE: If we had 22 OBJ's,  
SethFromAstoria : 11/13/2017 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13690763 Keith said:
Quote:
we'd win a lot of SB's.
)


The owner himself said this.
RE: RE: One of Reese's criteria for selecting players is youth  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13690784 jbeintherockies said:
Quote:
In comment 13690703 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


I believe Flowers, OBJ and Apple all were juniors and 21 years old or younger. There seems to be a maturity issue with all 3 of these players. With OBJ it seems he can't control his emotions, with Apple his effort and technique are bad which would lead me to believe he doesn't accept coaching and with Flowers it just seems to be able to handle the pressure of his position.

Reese is definitely part of the problem because I believe he puts certain criteria, like upside and youth over proven production and experience. What ever happened to drafting captains by the way?


I think Coughlin was trying to tell Reese and Ross something. I don't think Reese and Ross take leadership into account when putting together the draft board. They seem to think coaching will compensate for leadership and a lack of quality coaching/technique coming out of college.

Like Reese says, coach em up.


Exactly how did Coughlin do that?
it's almost like the Pope  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 6:09 pm : link
started saying what I have been saying since the Panthers game.

Last year I was all over OBJ and JPP and saw this titanic coming from a mile away. No matter what anyone here says I was on an island. People have revisionist history when they say they "didn't want to re-sign JPP" or "I always said OBJ was more of a headache than he is worth". That's BS.

I got called every name in the book (still do) for expressing the unpopular opinion.

Imagine if we had traded OBJ for 2 firsts and a 2nd and not re-signed JPP like I asked for last year? We'd be having a FAR different discussion right now.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/13/2017 6:18 pm : link
How exactly would this have changed anything about half the defense flat out quitting?

Quote:
Imagine if we had traded OBJ for 2 firsts and a 2nd and not re-signed JPP like I asked for last year? We'd be having a FAR different discussion right now.


Sometimes I think you just like to read your own BS.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/13/2017 6:19 pm : link
Also, what team was trading away two first round picks AND a second round pick for Beckham?

(And please don't tell me your "source" told you it could happen...)
RE: it's almost like the Pope  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 6:27 pm : link
In comment 13690862 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
started saying what I have been saying since the Panthers game.

Last year I was all over OBJ and JPP and saw this titanic coming from a mile away. No matter what anyone here says I was on an island. People have revisionist history when they say they "didn't want to re-sign JPP" or "I always said OBJ was more of a headache than he is worth". That's BS.

I got called every name in the book (still do) for expressing the unpopular opinion.

Imagine if we had traded OBJ for 2 firsts and a 2nd and not re-signed JPP like I asked for last year? We'd be having a FAR different discussion right now.


Yea we would be discussing how dumb it was to trade our best player because we canít score points.
RE: RE: it's almost like the Pope  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 6:38 pm : link
In comment 13690892 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13690862 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


started saying what I have been saying since the Panthers game.

Last year I was all over OBJ and JPP and saw this titanic coming from a mile away. No matter what anyone here says I was on an island. People have revisionist history when they say they "didn't want to re-sign JPP" or "I always said OBJ was more of a headache than he is worth". That's BS.

I got called every name in the book (still do) for expressing the unpopular opinion.

Imagine if we had traded OBJ for 2 firsts and a 2nd and not re-signed JPP like I asked for last year? We'd be having a FAR different discussion right now.



Yea we would be discussing how dumb it was to trade our best player because we canít score points.


How much worse could our record be if we did that? We just got throttled by CJ BEAT HARD
RE: .  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13690878 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Also, what team was trading away two first round picks AND a second round pick for Beckham?

(And please don't tell me your "source" told you it could happen...)


No- not a source. RG3 who never played a down of football was worth that. Think about that. Also Beckham is one of the most popular players in the league.

Teams would have been lining up around the block to give us 2 firsts and a 2nd.
Beckham has been essentially nonexistant for the entire year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/13/2017 6:43 pm : link
and still some people just need to find someone to blame.

It's the worst kind of meathead narrative and you look completely ridiculous for making this a hill to die on and also beat your chest and say 'I saw this coming'.
RE: OBJ  
old man : 11/13/2017 6:49 pm : link
In comment 13690714 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
Right now with the state of this team I would consider
moving OBJ and this kid is one of the most competitive hard working players you could ask not to mention his skill set is 2nd to none . You could argue that if some team offered a boatload of picks . Your giving yourself a chance to do a pretty damn good rebuild in this upcoming draft plenty of talent out there . Barkley would replace a lot of the excitement that Odell provides likely at a better cost
but its gambling on Webb being a decent starter .
Getting back to the power run game we had with Bradshaw and Jacobs with a line that can pass protect and give the
GOAT QB another shot at a ring .


Re OBJ: I like him. I'm old school yet understand why the antics, except for the helmet hit.Right now he's our 1 marketable asset. He has a contract phase coming up, and while he could be kept here for 3 more seasons, unless he is / can be convinced this fail can all turn around in that time, with an arrow up, he walks.
Not sure how owners feel about him and his 'stuff' but if they are down on him,it may be best to move him now for picks, find a complementary WR for Shep and Engram, rather than lose him for a 3rd round comp pick.
Much will first depend on how both sides feel about each other and the Giants future.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/13/2017 6:49 pm : link
The Redskins traded for the fantasy of RG3 - him not having played a down yet actually enhanced his value at the time because all he was, was potential.

He also is a QB.

Who was the last WR to be traded for two first round picks AND a 2nd round pick?
RE: RE: If we had 22 OBJ's,  
Keith : 11/13/2017 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13690842 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
In comment 13690763 Keith said:


Quote:


we'd win a lot of SB's.

)


The owner himself said this.


Typical of this ownership to steal my thoughts.
Two firsts and a second for Beckham isn't a good trade  
81_Great_Dane : 11/13/2017 6:57 pm : link
unless your main goal is to get Beckham off the team.

People forget what a crapshoot the draft is, even as we are sitting here shitting on one first-round pick who became a star (OBJ) another everybody wants to run out of town (Eli Apple) and a third who seems be underperforming and has people divided (JPP).

A lot of people think we'll just build a dynasty with the picks, like Dallas did with the picks from the Herschel Walker trade. If that's what you're assuming, have a look at what the Rams got for Eric Dickerson. (Spoiler alert: Those picks didn't amount to much.)

OBJ is a generational talent. He's the kind of guy every fan base salivates over. He's been better than most #1 overall picks. It is extremely unlikely the Giants would get a player as good with the picks they'd get.
RE: .  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 7:02 pm : link
In comment 13690924 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Redskins traded for the fantasy of RG3 - him not having played a down yet actually enhanced his value at the time because all he was, was potential.

He also is a QB.

Who was the last WR to be traded for two first round picks AND a 2nd round pick?


Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.
RE: Two firsts and a second for Beckham isn't a good trade  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 7:07 pm : link
In comment 13690944 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
unless your main goal is to get Beckham off the team.

People forget what a crapshoot the draft is, even as we are sitting here shitting on one first-round pick who became a star (OBJ) another everybody wants to run out of town (Eli Apple) and a third who seems be underperforming and has people divided (JPP).

A lot of people think we'll just build a dynasty with the picks, like Dallas did with the picks from the Herschel Walker trade. If that's what you're assuming, have a look at what the Rams got for Eric Dickerson. (Spoiler alert: Those picks didn't amount to much.)

OBJ is a generational talent. He's the kind of guy every fan base salivates over. He's been better than most #1 overall picks. It is extremely unlikely the Giants would get a player as good with the picks they'd get.


Except it's not about talent. That is undeniable. It's about the uniform. The teammates. The fans. The desire for ring #5. That's why we tune in on Sunday. Not to see a talented kid pee like a dog in the end zone and not even be a smidgent remorseful for the 15 yard team killing penalties.

He just doesn't care about anyone or anything about himself and his brand.
RE: RE: Two firsts and a second for Beckham isn't a good trade  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 7:13 pm : link
In comment 13690964 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13690944 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


unless your main goal is to get Beckham off the team.

People forget what a crapshoot the draft is, even as we are sitting here shitting on one first-round pick who became a star (OBJ) another everybody wants to run out of town (Eli Apple) and a third who seems be underperforming and has people divided (JPP).

A lot of people think we'll just build a dynasty with the picks, like Dallas did with the picks from the Herschel Walker trade. If that's what you're assuming, have a look at what the Rams got for Eric Dickerson. (Spoiler alert: Those picks didn't amount to much.)

OBJ is a generational talent. He's the kind of guy every fan base salivates over. He's been better than most #1 overall picks. It is extremely unlikely the Giants would get a player as good with the picks they'd get.



Except it's not about talent. That is undeniable. It's about the uniform. The teammates. The fans. The desire for ring #5. That's why we tune in on Sunday. Not to see a talented kid pee like a dog in the end zone and not even be a smidgent remorseful for the 15 yard team killing penalties.

He just doesn't care about anyone or anything about himself and his brand.


Not sure how that penalty killed the team but regardless your last statement couldnít be further from the truth. Does he care about his brand? Absolutely, any smart player in a sport where your career could be done on one hit would.

Does he not care about winning and the Giants? Thatís a made up narrative. The guy works his ass off and cares about winning. He didnít put a hole in the Packers locker room because his party plans got canceled.
Having a hard time believing that we suddenly care about the teammates  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/13/2017 7:19 pm : link
as individuals. This place has a habit of flipping on guys at the drop of a hat. As soon as they start losing and making a play you don't like, you start assuming they quit and are stealing money. It's not about the teammates. It's about the win-loss record of your favorite uniform.

And that's fine.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 11/13/2017 7:23 pm : link
In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13690924 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


The Redskins traded for the fantasy of RG3 - him not having played a down yet actually enhanced his value at the time because all he was, was potential.

He also is a QB.

Who was the last WR to be traded for two first round picks AND a 2nd round pick?



Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.


What proof is there that he was the one who said those things to Josina Anderson? He hadn't even played in a month by the time that stuff was said. He hadn't been in the locker room regularly.

You're using things against him that are likely not even true and you're basing everything you want the Giants to do off the fact that you don't like Beckham - which is a terrible way to form opinions or make judgments.
RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/13/2017 7:49 pm : link
In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.

I understand that you're incredibly biased and not very bright, but Beckham is so obviously not one of the anonymous sources that spoke to Josina Anderson. They're both on the defense, and very likely both from the secondary (I'd guess it's both of the players who BMc suspended this year since they have a financial reason to sling arrows out of spite).
RE: RE: RE: .  
BleedBlue : 11/13/2017 7:51 pm : link
In comment 13691001 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13690924 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


The Redskins traded for the fantasy of RG3 - him not having played a down yet actually enhanced his value at the time because all he was, was potential.

He also is a QB.

Who was the last WR to be traded for two first round picks AND a 2nd round pick?



Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.



What proof is there that he was the one who said those things to Josina Anderson? He hadn't even played in a month by the time that stuff was said. He hadn't been in the locker room regularly.

You're using things against him that are likely not even true and you're basing everything you want the Giants to do off the fact that you don't like Beckham - which is a terrible way to form opinions or make judgments.


i agree, i think the hate for OBJ is unnecessary. i also think its stupid to blame him for anything going on. could we get 2 1s and a 2 for him? 100% but i dont want to do it. OBJ is a core piece...he will grow up and mature....but to say he doesnt care is stupid. he wants to win...prob more than most. my guess...put some pieces in place up front, draft a QB and give eli another shot with a healthy roster and a new HC and culture...
OBJ would never have quit on the field like the defense did  
PatersonPlank : 11/13/2017 8:07 pm : link
yesterday. This guy is nothing bu 100% on every play.
RE: RE: RE: Two firsts and a second for Beckham isn't a good trade  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 8:07 pm : link
In comment 13690976 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13690964 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13690944 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


unless your main goal is to get Beckham off the team.

People forget what a crapshoot the draft is, even as we are sitting here shitting on one first-round pick who became a star (OBJ) another everybody wants to run out of town (Eli Apple) and a third who seems be underperforming and has people divided (JPP).

A lot of people think we'll just build a dynasty with the picks, like Dallas did with the picks from the Herschel Walker trade. If that's what you're assuming, have a look at what the Rams got for Eric Dickerson. (Spoiler alert: Those picks didn't amount to much.)

OBJ is a generational talent. He's the kind of guy every fan base salivates over. He's been better than most #1 overall picks. It is extremely unlikely the Giants would get a player as good with the picks they'd get.



Except it's not about talent. That is undeniable. It's about the uniform. The teammates. The fans. The desire for ring #5. That's why we tune in on Sunday. Not to see a talented kid pee like a dog in the end zone and not even be a smidgent remorseful for the 15 yard team killing penalties.

He just doesn't care about anyone or anything about himself and his brand.



Not sure how that penalty killed the team but regardless your last statement couldnít be further from the truth. Does he care about his brand? Absolutely, any smart player in a sport where your career could be done on one hit would.

Does he not care about winning and the Giants? Thatís a made up narrative. The guy works his ass off and cares about winning. He didnít put a hole in the Packers locker room because his party plans got canceled.


No he put a hole in the packers locker room because his party plans were the week before.
Arc, trivia question...  
Keith : 11/13/2017 8:09 pm : link
Who's a bigger fool, the fool or the fool arguing with the fool?

You're literally debating a made up person.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/13/2017 8:11 pm : link
LOL, everyone falls into the trap sometimes...
RE: RE: RE: .  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 8:17 pm : link
In comment 13691049 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.


I understand that you're incredibly biased and not very bright, but Beckham is so obviously not one of the anonymous sources that spoke to Josina Anderson. They're both on the defense, and very likely both from the secondary (I'd guess it's both of the players who BMc suspended this year since they have a financial reason to sling arrows out of spite).


Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.

RE: RE: RE: One of Reese's criteria for selecting players is youth  
jbeintherockies : 11/13/2017 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13690847 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13690784 jbeintherockies said:
Quote: In comment 13690703 Rjanyg Quote:
I believe Flowers, OBJ and Apple all were juniors and 21 years old or younger. There seems to be a maturity issue with all 3 of these players. With OBJ it seems he can't control his emotions, with Apple his effort and technique are bad which would lead me to believe he doesn't accept coaching and with Flowers it just seems to be able to handle the pressure of his position.

Reese is definitely part of the problem because I believe he puts certain criteria, like upside and youth over proven production and experience. What ever happened to drafting captains by the way?


I think Coughlin was trying to tell Reese and Ross something. I don't think Reese and Ross take leadership into account when putting together the draft board. They seem to think coaching will compensate for leadership and a lack of quality coaching/technique coming out of college.

Like Reese says, coach em up.

Exactly how did Coughlin do that?

By drafting players that were team captains while he was here. In one of Coughlin's last drafts they drafted like 5 college players that were team captains.

You must be new to BBI.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/13/2017 8:34 pm : link
In comment 13691113 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13691049 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.


I understand that you're incredibly biased and not very bright, but Beckham is so obviously not one of the anonymous sources that spoke to Josina Anderson. They're both on the defense, and very likely both from the secondary (I'd guess it's both of the players who BMc suspended this year since they have a financial reason to sling arrows out of spite).



Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.

Can't wait for you to spin this into all of us being insensitive to mental illness. ICONIC.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 8:40 pm : link
In comment 13691163 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13691113 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13691049 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.


I understand that you're incredibly biased and not very bright, but Beckham is so obviously not one of the anonymous sources that spoke to Josina Anderson. They're both on the defense, and very likely both from the secondary (I'd guess it's both of the players who BMc suspended this year since they have a financial reason to sling arrows out of spite).



Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.



Can't wait for you to spin this into all of us being insensitive to mental illness. ICONIC.


Can't wait for you to realize TWICE that you have no rational response when challenged on your opinion and attack the poster directly- TWICE.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
ajr2456 : 11/13/2017 10:25 pm : link
In comment 13691113 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13691049 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13690956 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


Who was the last WR as talented as Beckham who led the league in jersey sales?

Now what do we do? It's possible that not only is this kid an absolute headache when he plays but he also may now be running anonymously to his friend Josina Anderson to complain about the HC.

It's past immaturity at this point. The kid loves himself and his brand more than the team and his teammates. Almost impossible to win with guys like that, regardless of talent. Poor attitude is a disease in team sports.


I understand that you're incredibly biased and not very bright, but Beckham is so obviously not one of the anonymous sources that spoke to Josina Anderson. They're both on the defense, and very likely both from the secondary (I'd guess it's both of the players who BMc suspended this year since they have a financial reason to sling arrows out of spite).



Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.


Foundational beliefs like giving Tito Wooten a contract extension after he beat his girlfriend into suicide?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/13/2017 10:38 pm : link
In comment 13691178 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13691163 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13691113 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:



Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.



Can't wait for you to spin this into all of us being insensitive to mental illness. ICONIC.



Can't wait for you to realize TWICE that you have no rational response when challenged on your opinion and attack the poster directly- TWICE.

How was that an attack on you? Is it not a fact that you once started a thread from an incredibly homophobic position that has no basis in reality and then accused every poster who replied to your thread and called you out of being homophobic themselves? So you once again created a fictional statement (read: lie) that Beckham suffers from a "clear mental illness" and it's unreasonable you to expect you to twist that into a claim that others are insensitive to mental illness?

Capitalizing "TWICE" doesn't make you correct. In fact, you're rarely, if ever, correct (maybe not even ONCE), despite the frequency with which you like to pat yourself on the back.
RE: I think he's saying the problem isn't necessarily Beckham  
djm : 11/13/2017 10:45 pm : link
In comment 13690794 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's that Beckham was allowed to be a dipshit without repercussion.

That's on the coaches (including and especially Coughlin) and the front office.


Again for the 100th time. How do you know that Beckham hasn't been reprimanded? Actually he has but why let that sway anyone's rant.
RE: OBJ would never have quit on the field like the defense did  
djm : 11/13/2017 10:49 pm : link
In comment 13691088 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
yesterday. This guy is nothing bu 100% on every play.


Let's not bring that part up here!! Nope let's talk about a bunch of made up soap opera gossip! Beckham is full of himself! And the Giants enable him! I know so because.... I just do.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2017 11:09 pm : link
In comment 13691432 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13691178 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13691163 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13691113 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:



Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.



Can't wait for you to spin this into all of us being insensitive to mental illness. ICONIC.



Can't wait for you to realize TWICE that you have no rational response when challenged on your opinion and attack the poster directly- TWICE.


How was that an attack on you? Is it not a fact that you once started a thread from an incredibly homophobic position that has no basis in reality and then accused every poster who replied to your thread and called you out of being homophobic themselves? So you once again created a fictional statement (read: lie) that Beckham suffers from a "clear mental illness" and it's unreasonable you to expect you to twist that into a claim that others are insensitive to mental illness?

Capitalizing "TWICE" doesn't make you correct. In fact, you're rarely, if ever, correct (maybe not even ONCE), despite the frequency with which you like to pat yourself on the back.


You are kind of making my point for me bringing up the whole gay thing again. It's apparently still an issue for you. How is that not absolutely bizarre? Again...attacking the poster when the post is accurate. Go to the archives before we signed JPP. Do the same thing on the Beckham posts after any of his numerous stupid transgressions. I have earned the right to pat myself on the back because I'm right.

RE: One of Reese's criteria for selecting players is youth  
EricJ : 11/13/2017 11:16 pm : link
In comment 13690703 Rjanyg said:
Quote:

Reese is definitely part of the problem because I believe he puts certain criteria, like upside and youth over proven production and experience. What ever happened to drafting captains by the way?


you can have that youth but you need strong veteran leaders. We do not apparently have that on the team other than Snacks
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
GiantGrit : 11/14/2017 7:54 am : link
In comment 13691472 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13691432 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13691178 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13691163 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13691113 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:



Why is it always the personal attacks with you guys? Smh. If I am so stupid why am I proven so god damn right all of the time? Do you think I want the franchise I've rooted for.since I am 6 to go up in flames?

Name the players who are confirmed to have ever texted Josina Anderson. It's a short list. Go ahead look it up. But it CAN'T be that guy?

I don't like Beckham because of what he did to a once proud franchise. Look around. We are here because we sacrificed the foundational beliefs of how a franchise should be run by allowing someone with a clear mental illness to make the rules. Now when it explodes I am supposed to defend him?

My favorite non game day as a Giants fan was when we drafted Eli. My 2nd favorite will be tje day that headcase leaves the team for good.



Can't wait for you to spin this into all of us being insensitive to mental illness. ICONIC.



Can't wait for you to realize TWICE that you have no rational response when challenged on your opinion and attack the poster directly- TWICE.


How was that an attack on you? Is it not a fact that you once started a thread from an incredibly homophobic position that has no basis in reality and then accused every poster who replied to your thread and called you out of being homophobic themselves? So you once again created a fictional statement (read: lie) that Beckham suffers from a "clear mental illness" and it's unreasonable you to expect you to twist that into a claim that others are insensitive to mental illness?

Capitalizing "TWICE" doesn't make you correct. In fact, you're rarely, if ever, correct (maybe not even ONCE), despite the frequency with which you like to pat yourself on the back.



You are kind of making my point for me bringing up the whole gay thing again. It's apparently still an issue for you. How is that not absolutely bizarre? Again...attacking the poster when the post is accurate. Go to the archives before we signed JPP. Do the same thing on the Beckham posts after any of his numerous stupid transgressions. I have earned the right to pat myself on the back because I'm right.



Your favorite organization supposedly gave up its foundational beliefs for Odell, and you choose to hate Odell? Please, that's bullshit. Look, Odell can be a distraction. I will not argue that. But his behavior has been tolerated for quite some time, starting with Coughlin refusing to take him off the field against Carolina (which I cannot blame; trying to safe his job). Nonetheless, the organization failed him by not addressing the behavior right away. If you don't potty train your dog, and he's still peeing in the house when he's three years old, is it really the dog's fault? Sure it's his piss, but whose responsible for the behavior?

"I have earned the right to pat myself on the back because i'm right"
Do you want everyone on this board to send you a congratulations as well?
RE: .  
Victor in CT : 11/14/2017 7:59 am : link
In comment 13690924 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Redskins traded for the fantasy of RG3 - him not having played a down yet actually enhanced his value at the time because all he was, was potential.

He also is a QB.

Who was the last WR to be traded for two first round picks AND a 2nd round pick?


John Jefferson from SD to the Packers? 1982ish?
RE: RE: If we had 22 OBJ's,  
Modus Operandi : 11/14/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13690776 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13690763 Keith said:


Quote:


we'd win a lot of SB's.



it would be a unique formation, that's for sure.

I think teams would be able to run on that defense though.


We would have to invest in more kicking nets.
RE: Beckham's on IR.  
joe48 : 11/14/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13690722 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
He's not around. How is his behavior or the Giants' accommodation of it responsible for the mess we've seen since he went down? The other guys resented him? Ok, he's gone. Step up, guys, you got what you wanted.

Guys?

Anyone?
It is about creating a double standard for a star player. The great players are not me first people like OBJ. Even LTís actions off the field did not cause a distraction in the same way OBJ has. The foolish penalties and sideline antics cannot just be attributed to being young when you are in the 4th year of your career.
RE: RE: RE: Two firsts and a second for Beckham isn't a good trade  
joe48 : 11/14/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13690976 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13690964 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 13690944 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


unless your main goal is to get Beckham off the team.

People forget what a crapshoot the draft is, even as we are sitting here shitting on one first-round pick who became a star (OBJ) another everybody wants to run out of town (Eli Apple) and a third who seems be underperforming and has people divided (JPP).

A lot of people think we'll just build a dynasty with the picks, like Dallas did with the picks from the Herschel Walker trade. If that's what you're assuming, have a look at what the Rams got for Eric Dickerson. (Spoiler alert: Those picks didn't amount to much.)

OBJ is a generational talent. He's the kind of guy every fan base salivates over. He's been better than most #1 overall picks. It is extremely unlikely the Giants would get a player as good with the picks they'd get.



Except it's not about talent. That is undeniable. It's about the uniform. The teammates. The fans. The desire for ring #5. That's why we tune in on Sunday. Not to see a talented kid pee like a dog in the end zone and not even be a smidgent remorseful for the 15 yard team killing penalties.

He just doesn't care about anyone or anything about himself and his brand.



Not sure how that penalty killed the team but regardless your last statement couldnít be further from the truth. Does he care about his brand? Absolutely, any smart player in a sport where your career could be done on one hit would.

Does he not care about winning and the Giants? Thatís a made up narrative. The guy works his ass off and cares about winning. He didnít put a hole in the Packers locker room because his party plans got canceled.
Selfish players do not equate to winning teams. Seems a lot of people think that talent alone will win championships. Team chemistry wins. OBJ while very talented is all about himself. I do not care how hard he works. One other thing is that coming off the injury we are not sure how this affects his game which relies on cutting and speed.
I don't agree with Francessa. He's small-minded and very biased  
Mark C : 11/14/2017 2:38 pm : link
against OBJ. However,

I don't care how hard Beckham works. When I watch his behavior on the field, I'm watching a guy who may place winning among his top three priorities, but it definitely isn't number one. His brand and his appetite for attention are top two, and if that doesn't change, this team will not win with him.
OBJ makes TO look reasonable...  
bw in dc : 11/14/2017 4:39 pm : link
He is the complete antithesis of what a prototypical Giant is supposed to act and sound like. I have found most of his antics repugnant. So I can easily see why The Pope keeps pounding away...

But in my many years of watching football, he is the most gifted receiver I have ever seen. A once in a generational talent. I guess he could be a few inches taller, just to say he has the ultimate speed/height ratio thing, but the combination of hands, speed, quickness (especially in and out of cuts) and catching radius are incredible. Those combined skills are so rare that you have to find a way to keep him, assuming he's still the same post surgery.

In fact, one of the key reasons for the next hire, assuming McAdoo is gone, would be that candidate demonstrating he has the people skills to manage OBJ/millennials. This is one of the reasons why I would push it as far as I could go to hire Jim Harbaugh. He seems to be well dialed in with this generation...
Can someone tell me what all these antics are?  
Face Pepler : 11/14/2017 4:53 pm : link
I saw the dog piss thing, and I hated it. I hate all those kinds of things from players. It was awfully stupid.

But I'm wondering what everyone sees as this awful behavior from the guy. The Norman thing seemed like two guys going at each other--I didn't throw it all on Beckham. Something a young guy might do. What's the other awful stuff? the kicking net was dumb, but didn't seem to be shaking the foundational core of the organization or anything.

Can someone point me to the behavior from Beckham that has destroyed this team?
RE: Can someone tell me what all these antics are?  
bluepepper : 11/14/2017 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13692309 Face Pepler said:
Quote:
I saw the dog piss thing, and I hated it. I hate all those kinds of things from players. It was awfully stupid.

But I'm wondering what everyone sees as this awful behavior from the guy. The Norman thing seemed like two guys going at each other--I didn't throw it all on Beckham. Something a young guy might do. What's the other awful stuff? the kicking net was dumb, but didn't seem to be shaking the foundational core of the organization or anything.

Can someone point me to the behavior from Beckham that has destroyed this team?

He went on a boat on his off day last year 6 days before a playoff game! Shattered the organization. Will be years before we recover.
RE: I don't agree with Francessa. He's small-minded and very biased  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/14/2017 5:35 pm : link
In comment 13692138 Mark C said:
Quote:
against OBJ. However,

I don't care how hard Beckham works. When I watch his behavior on the field, I'm watching a guy who may place winning among his top three priorities, but it definitely isn't number one. His brand and his appetite for attention are top two, and if that doesn't change, this team will not win with him.

Beckham is the most competitive player on the team, IMO. How he handles that competitiveness sometimes results in some moments of immaturity, but I genuinely believe that he's the most competitive guy on the team and that it is his absolute #1 priority.

Winning will give him the attention he wants, and the attention will drive his brand. He's no dummy - he understands that (again, IMO).
RE: OBJ makes TO look reasonable...  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13692287 bw in dc said:
Quote:
He is the complete antithesis of what a prototypical Giant is supposed to act and sound like. I have found most of his antics repugnant. So I can easily see why The Pope keeps pounding away...

But in my many years of watching football, he is the most gifted receiver I have ever seen. A once in a generational talent. I guess he could be a few inches taller, just to say he has the ultimate speed/height ratio thing, but the combination of hands, speed, quickness (especially in and out of cuts) and catching radius are incredible. Those combined skills are so rare that you have to find a way to keep him, assuming he's still the same post surgery.

In fact, one of the key reasons for the next hire, assuming McAdoo is gone, would be that candidate demonstrating he has the people skills to manage OBJ/millennials. This is one of the reasons why I would push it as far as I could go to hire Jim Harbaugh. He seems to be well dialed in with this generation...


Yea, because Odell held out, had a media circus in his driveway and called out his QB.

What's a protypical Giant behavior? LT? Tito Wooten? Luke Pettigout? Get a grip.
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