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How many good coaches are in the NFL?

Sean : 11/13/2017 9:16 pm
Belichick, Carroll, Reid & Tomlin are the obvious guys at the top. I would put Marvin Lewis up there too considering the franchise he works for & the consistency he has shown. John Harbaugh is a SB winner who is a good coach.

Who else out there is a big time coach? There are a lot of coordinators turned HCís in the NFL which arenít that impressive. If youíve seen one, youíve seen a million.

I always hear, ĎI donít want a retreadí when going over HC candidates. These recent SB winning coaches have all been retreads:

Bill Belichick
Gary Kubiak
Pete Carroll
Tom Coughlin
Tony Dungy

The more I think of it, the more I like the idea of Mike Smith as the next NYG coach. He went 66-46 in 7 seasons with ATL which included 4 double digit win seasons (2 of which 13-3). 5 straight winning seasons when taking over after Petrino bailed on the franchise & after the Vick drama. I can guarantee you, this hire would NOT excite people, but this is a NFL head coach who can be trusted to run the program.

I look around at a lot of these coordinators turned head coaches, and Iím just not impressed.
Steelers fans hate Tomlin  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/13/2017 9:30 pm : link
Iím not sure why.
Sean  
mrvax : 11/13/2017 9:31 pm : link
I think the Giants may hire a new GM. Let that guy bring in the HC etc.
My definition of a retread is a guy like Mike Mularkey  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/13/2017 9:33 pm : link
Who has failed a bunch of times and still keeps getting work.

The Giants were Coughlin's second NFL HC job. Pats were Bill B's second as well.

If we're going with retreads  
GiantTuff1 : 11/13/2017 9:35 pm : link
I think we should go young and with upside to stick around for a while. I like Josh McDaniels from that standpoint.
RE: Sean  
Sean : 11/13/2017 9:37 pm : link
In comment 13691305 mrvax said:
Quote:
I think the Giants may hire a new GM. Let that guy bring in the HC etc.


Head coach is typically an ownership call.
Payton and McCarthy  
bluepepper : 11/13/2017 9:39 pm : link
are a couple that should be on your list.

Personally I like Rivera and Arians as well though like Lewis you'd get arguments.

There's just no formula. Some of the guys were retreads, some young guns. If I was picking, I'd err on the side of experience. Not necessarily HC experience but 15-20 years at different levels. Seen a lot, dealt with a lot.
RE: Payton and McCarthy  
Sean : 11/13/2017 9:40 pm : link
In comment 13691327 bluepepper said:
Quote:
are a couple that should be on your list.

Personally I like Rivera and Arians as well though like Lewis you'd get arguments.

There's just no formula. Some of the guys were retreads, some young guns. If I was picking, I'd err on the side of experience. Not necessarily HC experience but 15-20 years at different levels. Seen a lot, dealt with a lot.


Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons, saying Payton is a good coach is the same as saying Coughlin should have stayed beyond 2015.
RE: RE: Payton and McCarthy  
bluepepper : 11/13/2017 9:46 pm : link
In comment 13691335 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13691327 bluepepper said:


Quote:


are a couple that should be on your list.

Personally I like Rivera and Arians as well though like Lewis you'd get arguments.

There's just no formula. Some of the guys were retreads, some young guns. If I was picking, I'd err on the side of experience. Not necessarily HC experience but 15-20 years at different levels. Seen a lot, dealt with a lot.



Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons, saying Payton is a good coach is the same as saying Coughlin should have stayed beyond 2015.

Uh, no. Coughlin was a good coach but he had reached his expire date here. Reid's a good coach but the time came for him in Philly too.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/13/2017 9:46 pm : link
Dungy and Coughlin were pretty successful in their first jobs. So was Belichick before the move from CLE was announced. Kubiak also had some success. Carroll wasn't all that bad in NE, either (just looking at their records).

I think a good coach who may have worn out his welcome in a first stop is a good idea.

I think the title asks a good question. I think there's probably only 5-7 really good coaches in the league. Probably the same amount of really bad ones. The rest are probably fungible, with their success dependent on fit and luck than their individual talent/or lack thereof.
RE: ...  
Sean : 11/13/2017 9:48 pm : link
In comment 13691348 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Dungy and Coughlin were pretty successful in their first jobs. So was Belichick before the move from CLE was announced. Kubiak also had some success. Carroll wasn't all that bad in NE, either (just looking at their records).

I think a good coach who may have worn out his welcome in a first stop is a good idea.

I think the title asks a good question. I think there's probably only 5-7 really good coaches in the league. Probably the same amount of really bad ones. The rest are probably fungible, with their success dependent on fit and luck than their individual talent/or lack thereof.


Which is why I come back to Mike Smith. Iím intrigued by McDaniels, but this hire needs to hit. I see Mara playing it safe.
RE: RE: RE: Payton and McCarthy  
Sean : 11/13/2017 9:49 pm : link
In comment 13691347 bluepepper said:
Quote:
In comment 13691335 Sean said:


Quote:


In comment 13691327 bluepepper said:


Quote:


are a couple that should be on your list.

Personally I like Rivera and Arians as well though like Lewis you'd get arguments.

There's just no formula. Some of the guys were retreads, some young guns. If I was picking, I'd err on the side of experience. Not necessarily HC experience but 15-20 years at different levels. Seen a lot, dealt with a lot.



Payton had 3 straight 7-9 seasons, saying Payton is a good coach is the same as saying Coughlin should have stayed beyond 2015.


Uh, no. Coughlin was a good coach but he had reached his expire date here. Reid's a good coach but the time came for him in Philly too.


My point is- I think Sean Paytonís time came with the Saints, but he got the extra year and now heís 7-2.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/13/2017 9:51 pm : link
I can see Mike Smith being a good hire. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten another shot yet.
I wouldn't mind Mike Smith.  
FStubbs : 11/13/2017 10:40 pm : link
He turned around a team that, if not as bad as the Giants are right now, certainly had a far more toxic environment.

Plus he's a defensive minded head coach and we haven't had one of those since Bill Parcells. Time to get back to that.
I'm not a Sean Payton guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/13/2017 10:42 pm : link
but their troubles have always been linked to not having any defensive personnel.

Now all of a sudden they have some good young corners and they can get stops. I don't think he re-learned to coach. They finally got some personnel.
I could see a scenario  
Old Dirty : 11/13/2017 10:43 pm : link
where John Fox is our next coach. Not sure if I would love that. Another former HC is Eagles DC, Jim Schwartz. I like the way he calls a defense. Tom Cable is another that I'd be ok with.

Here are a couple college HC's I'd be interested in looking at:

Matt Ruhl, HC Baylor - has Giants ties as an asst under TC. Turned around a perennial loser in Temple in pretty quick fashion.

Washington Huskies HC, Chris Peterson - impressive resume as HC at Boise St & U of W. Not sure if he's a great fit in NYC, but this guy seems to have the goods.
RE: My definition of a retread is a guy like Mike Mularkey  
Sarcastic Sam : 11/13/2017 10:47 pm : link
In comment 13691310 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Who has failed a bunch of times and still keeps getting work.

The Giants were Coughlin's second NFL HC job. Pats were Bill B's second as well.


Technically the Pats were L'il B'ill's third HC job. It's just that he was head coach of the Jets for about 25 seconds.

Good golly, could you imagine if Bill stayed with the Jets and had the same kind of success? *shudder*
At this point Fox is kind of my definition of a retread.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/13/2017 10:47 pm : link
I'm not convinced he's anything more than garden variety. If you handed him a good roster, you'd get a solid team. But you could swap him out for half a dozen other coaches and get the same result.
Fox  
Sammo85 : 11/14/2017 6:51 am : link
Has gotten progressively worse as a HC. No way do I want him anywhere near my team, especially not with a young QB in development.

Mike Smith wouldnít be awful. But heíd need to bring in a strong OC mind.

A good HC is largely determined by situation, resources, organizational planning, as much by their intelligence and skill set.
McCarthy should not be on that list  
arniefez : 11/14/2017 8:44 am : link
Aaron Rogers is all that separates him from being another McAdoo. McCarthy cost the Packers a Super Bowl 3 years ago in Seattle. He was the only person in that stadium who could stop Aaron Rogers that day and he did it. He's had the most dominant QB in NFL history and he's won 1 Super Bowl.
Why do some Giant fans  
arniefez : 11/14/2017 8:47 am : link
think the Mara's are going to hire a GM and let that GM hire the coaching staff? The last time the Giants GM picked the coach was 1997 and he had to basically ignore Wellington to do it. Wellington hired reeves. Wellington hired Coughlin. John & Chris hired McAdoo. John & Chris will hire the next guy too.
RE: My definition of a retread is a guy like Mike Mularkey  
giants#1 : 11/14/2017 9:07 am : link
In comment 13691310 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Who has failed a bunch of times and still keeps getting work.

The Giants were Coughlin's second NFL HC job. Pats were Bill B's second as well.


TC also had some success with the expansion Jags.
RE: I wouldn't mind Mike Smith.  
ATL_Giants : 11/14/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13691434 FStubbs said:
Quote:
He turned around a team that, if not as bad as the Giants are right now, certainly had a far more toxic environment.

Plus he's a defensive minded head coach and we haven't had one of those since Bill Parcells. Time to get back to that.

I liked Mike Smith in Atlanta, just keep in mind..
1. He doesn't have an electric personality (we know this doesn't matter, but some people may feel 'unimpressed' after hearing him speak).
2. Beware clock management issues.
It's all about expectations  
DieHard : 11/14/2017 2:18 pm : link
Do you want a decently competitive team or do you want to win championships? Mike Smith is perfectly OK for the former if he has good personnel to work with (i.e., not this current Giants team), but it's hard to forget his numerous playoff debacles. I'd put Tomlin in the same category too -- he looks good when he's fronting a talented team vs. lesser competition, but ask him to do some actual coaching and he's overmatched (see Steelers-Pats championship game last year).

I'd personally swing for the fences and try finding a young guy with a fresh approach. Sure it could yield another disaster like McAdoo, but the game is changing, and the Giants need to get with the times. McVay and Pederson might be flashes in the pan, but they seem to be going about things the right way and have managed impressive turnarounds so far. I'd want something in that vein. Find a bright up-and-coming assistant on a consistently successful franchise (except for the Patriots -- we know Belichick's the real brains in that operation ;-)).
RE: I could see a scenario  
TyreeHelmet : 11/14/2017 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13691443 Old Dirty said:
Quote:
where John Fox is our next coach. Not sure if I would love that. Another former HC is Eagles DC, Jim Schwartz. I like the way he calls a defense. Tom Cable is another that I'd be ok with.

Here are a couple college HC's I'd be interested in looking at:

Matt Ruhl, HC Baylor - has Giants ties as an asst under TC. Turned around a perennial loser in Temple in pretty quick fashion.

Washington Huskies HC, Chris Peterson - impressive resume as HC at Boise St & U of W. Not sure if he's a great fit in NYC, but this guy seems to have the goods.


I would love Chris Peterson. Not sure he would leave though. David Shaw would also be a home run hire but he has no interest in leaving Stanford. I can't really blame them. If your a big time college coach making a lot of money, why leave?
I just think..  
Sean : 11/14/2017 8:01 pm : link
the Giants need to be very careful with the young coordinator type. I want someone who can handle all operations of the job & that requires experience. I doubt he will be fired, but Iíd be interested in Jason Garrett.

Iíll be rooting against the  
bigbluehoya : 11/14/2017 8:07 pm : link
Ravens from here out, in hopes of a John Harbaugh exit.

Iíd love Harbaugh as the next coach of NYG.
RE: RE: I wouldn't mind Mike Smith.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2017 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13691812 ATL_Giants said:
Quote:
In comment 13691434 FStubbs said:


Quote:


He turned around a team that, if not as bad as the Giants are right now, certainly had a far more toxic environment.

Plus he's a defensive minded head coach and we haven't had one of those since Bill Parcells. Time to get back to that.


I liked Mike Smith in Atlanta, just keep in mind..
1. He doesn't have an electric personality (we know this doesn't matter, but some people may feel 'unimpressed' after hearing him speak).
2. Beware clock management issues.


Also, for being a defensive guy, his defenses were never special. He never put together a pass rush whatsoever.
If we're talking retreads...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/15/2017 9:16 am : link
I think I'd be interested in Brad Childress over anyone else right now.
re: Marvin Lewis...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/15/2017 9:26 am : link
when you consider that the Bengals have scored less than the Giants - and that almost 10% of their points scored have been on pick-6's, I can't think of a reason to bring him here. Get someone who can redesign the offense please.

I'd take Lewis as defensive coordinator if he's available though.
There is one good one in NY - guess who it is?  
PatersonPlank : 11/15/2017 10:46 am : link
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