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NFT: 11/14 Knicks Chat. The Cleveland Aftermath

LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/14/2017 6:35 am
Last nights loss was like riding your favorite ride at the amusement park, only to then have the ride end by having your nuts smashed into a pole. 23 point lead.. damn.

Couple Notes/Opinions:

Two things I believe were the biggest factors in the loss. KP having an off-night (including 2 crunch free throws), and Hornaceks lack of adjustments and coaching. I don't know why Kanter wasn't getting much burn in the 4th, and why Ntilkina wasn't in over Sweaty Morpheus earlier.

-Frank was eating on defense. 6 steals. Offensively, I'd like to see him look to shoot more. I don't know if it's lack of confidence in his shot, but he can shoot.

-Kanter. Another great game. What's not to love about this guy? Stuck up for our rookie. Would love to keep this guy on our team. Had a couple nice quotes.
Quote:
You aint coming to my house and playing that water bottle flip game again, Kanter said, referring to what James and other Cavs did during their blowout victory at the Garden last season. I dont care who you are. What do you call yourself, King, Queen, Princess, whatever you are. Were going to fight. Nobody out there is going to punk us.


-Hardaway JR had another nice game. 28 pts, 10 Rebounds, 5 assists. I'm sure some will find a play or two in the game to keep with their agenda of hating him.

-Love KP, but he needs to be careful going forward with his theatrics to flopping. I mentioned in the game thread if maybe his sleeve was effecting him a little bit? Maybe. But he was shut down by LeBron when guarded.

All in all, a great game for the young squad. They made the Cavs actually give a shit in November. It took Kyle Korver to go immortal, LeBron to play defense, a less than stellar game from KP for them to win this game. Sitting at 7-6 after 13 games. I'll take it. Onto the Jazz this Wednesday.
The positive you takr awag  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 6:42 am : link
this tram should of beat cleveland going away with kp playing bad, that should give confidence to the other players...

also jazz no gobert, i would like to see the knicks come out hard and really put it to the jazz early
We got sloppy when we had a big lead in the 4th.  
robbieballs2003 : 11/14/2017 6:48 am : link
I don't need to see THJ chucking up 3s 6 feet behind the 3 point line. We had too many turnovers. We couldn't guard Korver and we let him get into rhythm. The mental breakdowns on defense were annoying too when we would go to double Lebron and then both players would leave him. The defensive rotations got lazy at the end too. Too many missed free throws at the end.

All that said, this loss doesn't bother me. These are all learning experiences for a young team that is learning to grow together. The most important things to come out of last night are that they know they can hang with Cleveland but cannot let up and that this group has each others' back.
Korver  
Fish : 11/14/2017 7:30 am : link
Went nuts but Frye 3 pointer was the dagger.
Take-aways  
Pep22 : 11/14/2017 7:39 am : link
-Cavs surrounded LBJ with three point shooters and played the drive and kick game and they obviously got hot

-Still, I don't know how/why you'd ever leave Korver alone and in many cases they sagged off of him (unacceptable)

-KP played poorly but let's be honest, there's not a player in the league that Lebron can't shut down as he did in critical possessions late

-I get the argument that Jack brings a calming element and is a great teammate and coach down the road. That being said, he's Jose Calderon...just not an NBA caliber player any more. With all the garbage CLE has at the guard positions, the NYK can't attack with one guy because he's not physically ready on offense (still deserves 20+ minutes per) and the other guy plays like he's 60
Not concerned with MP and the flopping.  
PhiPsi125 : 11/14/2017 7:41 am : link
Crowder was downright mugging KP all night. They played him very physical. Did he embellish some? Sure. But it was nowhere near the crazy flopping that Lebron and Wade do.
Knicks have the next 3 of 4 at home  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 7:46 am : link
do they sulk and let this game effect them negatively or do they use it as motivation and come out and go on another roll?

i would start ntlikina, let jack come off the bench and play with those guys...

Knicks need to find a bench scorer at the guard position, got to use your big man depth and find a back up point...
That game was fun and it was enjoyable to have it feel meaningful  
Heisenberg : 11/14/2017 7:52 am : link
in November. It felt like a rivalry.

They did a good job of denying the things that KP likes to do. Frank really needs to start looking for his shot more because teams are just playing off him.

And that was the best I've seen Hardaway look all year. He was great.
RE: Knicks have the next 3 of 4 at home  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/14/2017 7:54 am : link
In comment 13691558 nygiants16 said:
Quote:


Knicks need to find a bench scorer at the guard position...


Dotson, Damyean
KP  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 7:55 am : link
looked off all night. Off-balance shots, not squaring up and lets face is, Crowder did a great job on him as well. Crowder=types have traditionally had the most success against KP.

I still question Frank's offensive upside but I'm becoming a big time fan of the kid overall. The defense is the goods and I don't see any reason he can't develop into a solid playmaker. He needs to improve his handle AND be encouraged to take open looks when he gets them.
THjr  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 7:56 am : link
played with fire and great energy. Loved what I saw from him. McBuckets was invisible, Lance Thomas -14 in 17 minutes, yikes
RE: KP  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 8:00 am : link
In comment 13691567 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
looked off all night. Off-balance shots, not squaring up and lets face is, Crowder did a great job on him as well. Crowder=types have traditionally had the most success against KP.

I still question Frank's offensive upside but I'm becoming a big time fan of the kid overall. The defense is the goods and I don't see any reason he can't develop into a solid playmaker. He needs to improve his handle AND be encouraged to take open looks when he gets them.


I am one franks biggest supporters but i was verh frustrated he didnt take some of the open shots...

he needs to make teams pay for going under the screen, hopefully he learns and takes that shot, even if he misses a couple he needs to take it
Regardless of loss, that was a fun November NBA game  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/14/2017 8:05 am : link
Frankie needs to shoot the ball more; teams are sinking off of him.

And F LeBron, he is at the same time an all-time talent and all-time unlikeable.
Around the league  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 8:05 am : link
Fox 10, 3 and 5 (3-10)

Oubre 12, 8, 3 and 2, might just be a fluke but the Wizards picks seem to take a while to develop and end up being really nice players. Oubre looks like he's headed toward a breakout season

Evans 27, 6 and 3... has anyone noticed how good he's been this year?

GF 27, 9 and 7, 2 steals, 2 blocks

Collins 12 and 6, quietly having a nice start to his career

Cousins 22, 16, 7 and 3 (MONSTER year so far)

Lonzo 7 points, 5 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals 3-10 from the field (-11

Jackson 0 and 5

Mitchell 24, 4 and 4 with 4 steals (he's really come on recently)

Covington 31, 6 and 4 with 4 steals (one of the most underrated players in the NBA

Embiid 32 and 16 (absolute stud)
RE: RE: KP  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 8:07 am : link
In comment 13691573 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13691567 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


looked off all night. Off-balance shots, not squaring up and lets face is, Crowder did a great job on him as well. Crowder=types have traditionally had the most success against KP.

I still question Frank's offensive upside but I'm becoming a big time fan of the kid overall. The defense is the goods and I don't see any reason he can't develop into a solid playmaker. He needs to improve his handle AND be encouraged to take open looks when he gets them.



I am one franks biggest supporters but i was verh frustrated he didnt take some of the open shots...

he needs to make teams pay for going under the screen, hopefully he learns and takes that shot, even if he misses a couple he needs to take it


I'm not looking to be too critical of Hornacek but I think the coaching staff has to really drive that point home.
RE: THjr  
Heisenberg : 11/14/2017 8:12 am : link
In comment 13691568 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
played with fire and great energy. Loved what I saw from him. McBuckets was invisible, Lance Thomas -14 in 17 minutes, yikes


Heh, Horny kept bringing in Lance as a Lebron stopper and that was, uh, not working.
RE: Around the league  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/14/2017 8:20 am : link
In comment 13691578 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


Evans 27, 6 and 3... has anyone noticed how good he's been this year?


You mean Tyreke Evans? The guy who is making less than Ron Baker?
Game  
TyreeHelmet : 11/14/2017 8:25 am : link
Really fun November game. Totally agree about Frank needing to shot more. Especially at the top of the key and open 3s- need to let those fly. I thought Courtney Lee played great and he's had a fantastic year.

Hardaway played really well but he still has awful defensive lapses and ill advised shots. Just want him to be more dialed in on defense and focus. He has the athletic ability to be an average to above average defender. Kanters been great, really impressed with his defensive improvement from last year.

On a night like last night, Hornacek needs to find better ways to get KP different shots. He was definitely off all night and I agree smaller defenders like Crowder cause issues, but I would have liked to see different matchups to get him matched on Frye or Love.

disappointing to blow the lead, obviously, but who thought the Knicks  
Del Shofner : 11/14/2017 8:36 am : link
would be the subject of so much excitement so soon. Hopefully they keep it going - there are going to be some brutal stretches of the schedule coming up after all these home games.
i think one thing we can all be happy about  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 8:45 am : link
win or lose knicks fans habe a team they can be proud of
RE: RE: Around the league  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 8:47 am : link
In comment 13691596 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13691578 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:




Evans 27, 6 and 3... has anyone noticed how good he's been this year?




You mean Tyreke Evans? The guy who is making less than Ron Baker?


Yeah but Baker has funny hair and tries hard!
RE: RE: THjr  
Enzo : 11/14/2017 8:49 am : link
In comment 13691585 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13691568 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


played with fire and great energy. Loved what I saw from him. McBuckets was invisible, Lance Thomas -14 in 17 minutes, yikes



Heh, Horny kept bringing in Lance as a Lebron stopper and that was, uh, not working.

seems like Lance is incapable of executing a pump fake and then dribble without committing a traveling violation. Maddening.
Well, that's because Lance Thomas is trash  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 8:51 am : link
The sooner he's gone, the better.

Long after the memory of this loss has faded, I will still remember the pathetic spectacle of an aging legend picking a fight with a teenager. That was one of the sorriest things I've ever seen on a basketball court.
I felt like last nights lead was inflated  
aimrocky : 11/14/2017 8:57 am : link
because of Cleveland's lackadaisical play. Sure, our defense was strong and Hardaway was hitting shots, but we were sloppy with the ball and many key players were ice cold (Porzingis, O'Quinn, McDermott & Jack). Cleveland was also missing open shots through 3, so it felt like a matter of time before they closed the gap. I just hoped we stayed out in front by enough to eeck out the win.
as crazy as it may sound and it is very very early  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 9:01 am : link
but are the knicks 1 piece away at small forward from competing in the east?

you have a potential defensive stalwart at point, thjr who is averaging 18 4 and 3, kp averaging 30 and kanter averaging a double-double...

is it crazy to think that?
RE: Regardless of loss, that was a fun November NBA game  
aimrocky : 11/14/2017 9:03 am : link
In comment 13691576 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
Frankie needs to shoot the ball more; teams are sinking off of him.

And F LeBron, he is at the same time an all-time talent and all-time unlikeable.


Couldn't agree more. After the game I was very fired up, explaining to my wife every little play (like she cares). Mid explanation I said "you know, this was a mid November game and I spent 3 hours on the edge of my seat, I'm satisfied".
Kanter not playing in the 4th was an adjustment to Cleveland going sma  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2017 9:09 am : link
And draining 3s constantly, according to Hornacek's presser.
RE: Kanter not playing in the 4th was an adjustment to Cleveland going sma  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 9:10 am : link
In comment 13691655 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
And draining 3s constantly, according to Hornacek's presser.


which i dont get because cleveland played small all game and kanter was fine
ouch, the pain, the pain.  
GiantsUA : 11/14/2017 9:11 am : link
KP had an off night, ironic seeing Wade and Bron complain about KP's embellishing the contact, good stuff.

I thought that Jack dropping in to the paint to help when LBJ drove and leaving Korver opened was the mistake of the game.

He left him at least twice and possibly a third time. Has he ever watched what LBJ does. Really bad basketball from a veteran.

THjr played well. Last couple of possessions the Knicks were all bottled up. Hopefully they have a couple of end of game plays they can run in the future.
RE: as crazy as it may sound and it is very very early  
Enzo : 11/14/2017 9:13 am : link
In comment 13691642 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but are the knicks 1 piece away at small forward from competing in the east?

you have a potential defensive stalwart at point, thjr who is averaging 18 4 and 3, kp averaging 30 and kanter averaging a double-double...

is it crazy to think that?

they need more than defense from the PG. Our offense is clicking right now for the most part, but we don't put enough pressure on defenses via penetration. We get a lot of open looks via screening and motion, but good defensive teams will shut that down. And we need to shoot more three pointers (we take way too many long twos)...but that too should increase if the PG is penetrating more.

In terms of personnel, other than better PG play, I think they also need a MUCH better version of Lance. A big/bouncy guy with range that can rebound and finish in transition. Since we don't have that, if I'm Hornacek I give McDermott a lot more mins at that spot. At least he gives you shooting. Lance has his moments, but there are too many times where it looks like he took up the sport yesterday.
They  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 9:15 am : link
need a third player who has some ability to create their own shot. KP and THjr can do that. Nobody else really can.
So the Knicks made a hat with KP's face  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 9:16 am : link
It is, shall I say, less than uncanny


Link - ( New Window )
yeesh  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 9:17 am : link
that picture wasn't nearly as big when I copied it
shouldn't it be New Era  
Enzo : 11/14/2017 9:19 am : link
that gets mocked? Whatever. That looks like Brendan Fraser in that movie where he makes a deal with the devil.
MSG  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 9:20 am : link
is selling the Liberty, sounds like they won't be playing at MSG anymore either.
RE: as crazy as it may sound and it is very very early  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13691642 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but are the knicks 1 piece away at small forward from competing in the east?

you have a potential defensive stalwart at point, thjr who is averaging 18 4 and 3, kp averaging 30 and kanter averaging a double-double...

is it crazy to think that?


This is exactly the case. How they get that piece will be interesting, because they probably wont be bad enough for the top 5. Maybe they can land Diallo from Kentucky?
RE: shouldn't it be New Era  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13691673 Enzo said:
Quote:
that gets mocked? Whatever. That looks like Brendan Fraser in that movie where he makes a deal with the devil.


hah! Good call, that's perfect. On the other hand, while New Era made it, the Knicks had to sign off on it, I imagine.

Also, your comment is a good excuse to post a pic of Liz Hurley at her peak.

Is  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 9:32 am : link
it me or did Lebron claim he previously took the Subway from Philadelphia...?
Looks like the Eli pic from San Diego, too....  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 9:42 am : link
the fourth quarter was painful to watch  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/14/2017 10:02 am : link
but I don't care so much about wins and losses.

For the first 30-35 minutes of the game, this team played more exciting basketball than they have in over a decade. Hitting big shots, cleaning up inside, making great plays on defense. The Garden was alive.

Frank is showing a serious defensive knack but he needs to continue to develop confidence on offense. He's young and inexperienced but right now, he doesn't trust his jumper. He looks smooth around the rim though. It should come with time.
Times like this  
Kyle in NY : 11/14/2017 10:06 am : link
I miss JoeMP. The Lebron debates today would be fantastic.

Fun game, Knicks are on the right track. This is likely the last run for the Cavs. Despite a tough loss, a young team can learn a lot from a game like that against the defending conference champs.
RE: Times like this  
BigBlueShock : 11/14/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13691743 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
I miss JoeMP. The Lebron debates today would be fantastic.

Fun game, Knicks are on the right track. This is likely the last run for the Cavs. Despite a tough loss, a young team can learn a lot from a game like that against the defending conference champs.

Between LeBron and Cam Newton doing things that we've never seen before last night, Joe must be a walking hard on today. Wherever he is
Lol yep  
Kyle in NY : 11/14/2017 10:16 am : link
Although to be fair, not to take Joe's role, but the way Lebron is as good as he's ever been in his 15th season in the league plus all the playoff miles, is extremely impressive. Dude is a freak of nature
I view him the way I view Sidney Crosby  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 10:18 am : link
Incredible player, once in a generation kind of guy....and just an enormous cunt in every way.
RE: Lol yep  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 10:19 am : link
In comment 13691759 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
Although to be fair, not to take Joe's role, but the way Lebron is as good as he's ever been in his 15th season in the league plus all the playoff miles, is extremely impressive. Dude is a freak of nature


i just wish he would cut out all the bullshit...

why you picking on a 19 year old kid last night, he knew what he was doing...

you are an mvp, 3 gime champion, face of the league why you doing that shit?
I know Joe/Mom  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/14/2017 10:19 am : link
gets his balls busted over his over the top, plants his flag in the ground arguments over LeBron, Cam, etc. But he was hands down the best basketball poster on here.
RE: I view him the way I view Sidney Crosby  
Kyle in NY : 11/14/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13691762 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Incredible player, once in a generation kind of guy....and just an enormous cunt in every way.


I don't think he's that bad. Just one man's minority opinion though
RE: RE: I view him the way I view Sidney Crosby  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 10:23 am : link
In comment 13691766 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13691762 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Incredible player, once in a generation kind of guy....and just an enormous cunt in every way.



I don't think he's that bad. Just one man's minority opinion though


he is a whiner and always complaining to officials or to the media in that sense just like crosby...

RE: RE: I view him the way I view Sidney Crosby  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 10:23 am : link
In comment 13691766 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13691762 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Incredible player, once in a generation kind of guy....and just an enormous cunt in every way.



I don't think he's that bad. Just one man's minority opinion though


Hes petty. Even after the game he couldnt compliment the Knicks with taking a shot at Phil Jackson
Yeah, Lebron was brutal these past few days.  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 10:23 am : link
Dragging a teenager into a "feud" with Phil Jackson that only Lebron cares about at this point, and then going out of his way to humiliate the teenager during the game - even after Frank had shown great class and maturity by diffusing the situation publicly the day before. All because it's November and Lebron is already bored by the regular season and probably has his bags packed for LA.
But I'm admittedly biased  
Kyle in NY : 11/14/2017 10:24 am : link
since Lebron is a Buckeye fan and also being out this way, I've got a lot of Cleveland fan friends that adore the guy. So it's maybe rubbed off on me a bit.
I mean, he already got his dig in on Jax with his pregame comments  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 10:26 am : link
What was the point of getting in Ntilikina's face during the game? Bush league garbage. You'd expect the best player on earth to be above petty nonsense like that.
He is a whiner and he's clearly petty  
Kyle in NY : 11/14/2017 10:26 am : link
But I don't remember a single superstar that hasn't utilized their status to gain favor with officials during games. You'd be crazy not to use your status to get a favorable whistle

Steph Curry is out there throwing his mouthpiece around when he doesn't get calls.
LeBron  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/14/2017 10:26 am : link
is also a Indians fan... oh wait. Yankees.. shit.. probably Astros now. Fuck LeBron
I'm a bit worried about KP.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/14/2017 10:34 am : link
There is a big ass knot on his shooting elbow and it will probably need surgery after the season. Now he has to wear a sleeve on it and that could affect his shooting.

Excellent performances by Kanter and THJ last night.

Let's get this win versus Utah at the Garden tomorrow with no Gobert.

Oh, and fuck LeBron.
Wasn't KP wearing the sleeve on his left arm during previous games?  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 10:39 am : link
All of a sudden last night it was on his right arm? I'm not even sure which elbow is injured at this point. I'm not gonna hold legit injuries against an athlete, but my one gripe about KP is he needs to stay away from international ball if these bumps and bruises are going to be part of his career, especially if we fork over $150 million extension. Was his elbow bothering him over the summer, too?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 10:40 am : link
not too worried about KP. He looked a step slow, he wasn't setting his feet/squaring up like he normally does and Crowder was all over him. If it becomes a pattern I'll worry more about the elbow.
IDK about his other elbow, but he has bursitis on his shooting elbow  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/14/2017 10:43 am : link
and the knot is so big that he decided to wear a sleeve over it. (I'm not sure if it's for the padding, to keep the arm warm, or both.) Horny said after the game the sleeve may have affected his shooting, especially with the missed free throws. It was also reported that he may need surgery after the season on the bursitis.
SI  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 10:58 am : link
19. New York Knicks KNICKS | MITCHELL ROBINSON, C | 19 YEARS OLD

Robinson will remain a bit of an enigma after leaving Western Kentucky to prepare for the draft on his own. He has the size, length and talent to be a first-round pick, but hes far from a lock at this stage given everything that can happen between now and next spring, when hell be able to work out for teams. Most NBA scouts have only seen him in quick spurts and in All-Star settings, and his feel for the game leaves something to be desired, so its a little concerning that he wont play competitively at all this season. Robinson could be a valuable shot-blocker and lob catcher around the basket, and should benefit from being part of a thinner draft class.


They have him passing on Musa, a kid I've been keeping my eyes on for a while. Another teen Euro, I think he'd be a sweet addition to Frank/KP (linked highlights below)
Link - ( New Window )
LeBron  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 10:58 am : link
Posted on Instagram how hes the king of ny. Dudes such a cornball
It's clear to me that Jack just doesn't have that many games in him.  
manh george : 11/14/2017 10:59 am : link
I think he's wearing down already. If the Knicks are taking this season seriously, they will need to start Frank sooner than anticipated, and perhaps find a pg in trade with more legs left than either of their old men.
Baker  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 11:01 am : link
with an injured shoulder now lol sweet 9.4 million for Ronny Bakes.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 11:03 am : link
fine cycling in any PG's that may be interesting but I would be pretty furious giving up even a 2nd for one this year unless it was a multi-year piece.
RE: SI  
BigBlueShock : 11/14/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13691820 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
19. New York Knicks KNICKS | MITCHELL ROBINSON, C | 19 YEARS OLD

Robinson will remain a bit of an enigma after leaving Western Kentucky to prepare for the draft on his own. He has the size, length and talent to be a first-round pick, but hes far from a lock at this stage given everything that can happen between now and next spring, when hell be able to work out for teams. Most NBA scouts have only seen him in quick spurts and in All-Star settings, and his feel for the game leaves something to be desired, so its a little concerning that he wont play competitively at all this season. Robinson could be a valuable shot-blocker and lob catcher around the basket, and should benefit from being part of a thinner draft class.


They have him passing on Musa, a kid I've been keeping my eyes on for a while. Another teen Euro, I think he'd be a sweet addition to Frank/KP (linked highlights below) Link - ( New Window )

I understand that most of these guys aren't here long term, but really, another center?
RE: LeBron  
mfsd : 11/14/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13691821 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Posted on Instagram how hes the king of ny. Dudes such a cornball


Hes a great basketball player. Who often acts like a bitch.
RE: RE: SI  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13691834 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13691820 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


19. New York Knicks KNICKS | MITCHELL ROBINSON, C | 19 YEARS OLD

Robinson will remain a bit of an enigma after leaving Western Kentucky to prepare for the draft on his own. He has the size, length and talent to be a first-round pick, but hes far from a lock at this stage given everything that can happen between now and next spring, when hell be able to work out for teams. Most NBA scouts have only seen him in quick spurts and in All-Star settings, and his feel for the game leaves something to be desired, so its a little concerning that he wont play competitively at all this season. Robinson could be a valuable shot-blocker and lob catcher around the basket, and should benefit from being part of a thinner draft class.


They have him passing on Musa, a kid I've been keeping my eyes on for a while. Another teen Euro, I think he'd be a sweet addition to Frank/KP (linked highlights below) Link - ( New Window )


I understand that most of these guys aren't here long term, but really, another center?


I think you go BPA when you have a team like the Knicks do. Willy and Kanter are both 1 way players as it is so if this kid is a defensive/athletic type he might be a nice add (not my first choice). As I said I'm digging Musa.
obviously, it will depend on where they end up picking  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 11:19 am : link
But I'd like to see them pick either an athletic wing, so they can send Lance Thomas packing, or a young point guard.
RE: RE: RE: SI  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13691848 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13691834 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13691820 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


19. New York Knicks KNICKS | MITCHELL ROBINSON, C | 19 YEARS OLD

Robinson will remain a bit of an enigma after leaving Western Kentucky to prepare for the draft on his own. He has the size, length and talent to be a first-round pick, but hes far from a lock at this stage given everything that can happen between now and next spring, when hell be able to work out for teams. Most NBA scouts have only seen him in quick spurts and in All-Star settings, and his feel for the game leaves something to be desired, so its a little concerning that he wont play competitively at all this season. Robinson could be a valuable shot-blocker and lob catcher around the basket, and should benefit from being part of a thinner draft class.


They have him passing on Musa, a kid I've been keeping my eyes on for a while. Another teen Euro, I think he'd be a sweet addition to Frank/KP (linked highlights below) Link - ( New Window )


I understand that most of these guys aren't here long term, but really, another center?



I think you go BPA when you have a team like the Knicks do. Willy and Kanter are both 1 way players as it is so if this kid is a defensive/athletic type he might be a nice add (not my first choice). As I said I'm digging Musa.


I havent seen much of Musa recently but didnt he struggle to play off the ball?
RE: obviously, it will depend on where they end up picking  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13691855 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But I'd like to see them pick either an athletic wing, so they can send Lance Thomas packing, or a young point guard.


The Bulls pick is basically a late first which is huge
RE: MSG  
Enzo : 11/14/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13691675 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is selling the Liberty, sounds like they won't be playing at MSG anymore either.

uh-oh. That means a certain someone might be looking for a new job...lol.
if i am perry  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 11:25 am : link
i am on the phone looking to see if either brogdon or parker are available...
RE: if i am perry  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13691874 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i am on the phone looking to see if either brogdon or parker are available...


Malc is shooting 49% on threes this year, BTW  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 11:39 am : link
.
RE: RE: if i am perry  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13691898 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13691874 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i am on the phone looking to see if either brogdon or parker are available...





i knew you would love that greg...
RE: RE: RE: RE: SI  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13691863 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13691848 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13691834 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13691820 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


19. New York Knicks KNICKS | MITCHELL ROBINSON, C | 19 YEARS OLD

Robinson will remain a bit of an enigma after leaving Western Kentucky to prepare for the draft on his own. He has the size, length and talent to be a first-round pick, but hes far from a lock at this stage given everything that can happen between now and next spring, when hell be able to work out for teams. Most NBA scouts have only seen him in quick spurts and in All-Star settings, and his feel for the game leaves something to be desired, so its a little concerning that he wont play competitively at all this season. Robinson could be a valuable shot-blocker and lob catcher around the basket, and should benefit from being part of a thinner draft class.


They have him passing on Musa, a kid I've been keeping my eyes on for a while. Another teen Euro, I think he'd be a sweet addition to Frank/KP (linked highlights below) Link - ( New Window )


I understand that most of these guys aren't here long term, but really, another center?



I think you go BPA when you have a team like the Knicks do. Willy and Kanter are both 1 way players as it is so if this kid is a defensive/athletic type he might be a nice add (not my first choice). As I said I'm digging Musa.



I havent seen much of Musa recently but didnt he struggle to play off the ball?


Reportedly scouts were "blown away" how far his game has come over the past 2 months from pure scorer to a more well rounded game. Keep in mind he'll only be 19 in May aka assuming he comes over next season he'll be approx the same age Frank is this season for us. he's very, very young and already showing he can handle the pro game. On the EXTREME high end you are looking at a Manu type.
I will add  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/14/2017 11:51 am : link
that as much as I enjoyed watching the Knicks last night, I don't like this habit of Porzingis flopping to sell fouls. Was he getting fouled? Perhaps, but plays down low get physical both ways. And Porzingis is just faling to the ground to get calls. I think it's cheap.
Just saw Embiid's highlights from last night...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/14/2017 11:54 am : link
Man.

32 points on 11 for 20 from the floor & 16 boards. Freak.
Porzingis didn't invent  
Pep22 : 11/14/2017 12:07 pm : link
flopping. Watch any star.
I didn't say he invented it  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/14/2017 12:16 pm : link
but he's making a habit of it this season and he keeps falling to the ground, and sometimes smirking after. It looks bad.
Two words regarding LBJ -  
GiantsUA : 11/14/2017 12:27 pm : link
"the decision"

Alright, a third word - douche bag
I'm really gonna enjoy  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 12:29 pm : link
Magic Johnson paying Lebron James max money to watch him decline in his mid 30s. The public spats with LaVar Ball alone will be glorious.
Embiid  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 12:33 pm : link
pound for pound is up there with the rarified "best player in the NBA" air in terms of talent/ability. Ayton looks to have some of that ability as well.
Embiid turns the ball over a LOT, though  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 12:49 pm : link
Almost 5 a game is a ton for a guy who isn't a ballhandler. Giannis is at 3.3, for example, and he plays a lot of point forward.
IDK why I'm surprised, but the amount of media members  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/14/2017 1:01 pm : link
willing to fawn over Lebron even when it's crystal clear he's being a jackass is crazy.

LeBron being a jackass is actually mental chess or leadership... it's not simply that he's being a jackass. There has to be some safe, rational area for criticism beyond drunken Pete Vescey-ville.
RE: Embiid turns the ball over a LOT, though  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13692007 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Almost 5 a game is a ton for a guy who isn't a ballhandler. Giannis is at 3.3, for example, and he plays a lot of point forward.


In fairness Embiid DOES handle the ball more than your standard big. I'd say his closest comp would be Cousins who himself is averaging 5.4 turnovers per game so far this year (3.5 for his career but closer to 4 since he became a star). Only question with Embiid is health otherwise he's a superstar with a chance top 3 player.
The worst part about blowing that game last night  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 1:12 pm : link
is having to listen to espn sucking off lebron acting like he carried the cavs by hinself...

stephen a basically said frabk should respect lebron and that lebron did nothing wrong, how can any self claimed knick fan not be happy with the team standing up to
lebron?

and now lebron continues to troll on twitter about how he owns madison square garden and the knicks, yup completely ignorw the fact knicks went into cleveland and whooped the cavs...

god i hate lebron and the cavs, i wojld love to play them in the playoffs and knock them out
Westchester  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 1:20 pm : link
today

Hayes 20 and 5, 3 steals 8-12, 3/4 from 3 (Not sure he's an NBA talent but has played well in the G)

The Green Kornet with 24 and 5, 9-18, 5-12 from 3

Burke 24 and 4 8-18
Adam  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 1:22 pm : link
Silver you bald genius, Knicks vs. Lakers feud coming next season.
nygiants16  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/14/2017 1:22 pm : link
Screamin A Smith is never worth paying attention to.
RE: RE: LeBron  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13691835 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 13691821 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Posted on Instagram how hes the king of ny. Dudes such a cornball



Hes a great basketball player. Who often acts like a bitch.


what a disrespectful pjece of shit...

kanter responded "new york already has a king and his is kristaps porzingis"
RE: RE: LeBron  
WideRight : 11/14/2017 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13691835 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 13691821 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Posted on Instagram how hes the king of ny. Dudes such a cornball



Hes a great basketball player. Who often acts like a bitch.



He's a bitch who happen to be good at basketball
Props  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 1:39 pm : link
to Lebron. He's a wrestling fan and he's playing the heel perfectly.
RE: Props  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13692070 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to Lebron. He's a wrestling fan and he's playing the heel perfectly.


i thought he said he didnt want to be the bad guy anynore?
RE: RE: Props  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13692079 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13692070 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


to Lebron. He's a wrestling fan and he's playing the heel perfectly.



i thought he said he didnt want to be the bad guy anynore?


And yet he's posting gifs of him as the joker as MSG explodes. He's having fun. I understand why Knicks fans are going nutty but on his end he's likely loving this. It's classic heel play for a wrestler.
RE: I will add  
PhiPsi125 : 11/14/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13691936 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
that as much as I enjoyed watching the Knicks last night, I don't like this habit of Porzingis flopping to sell fouls. Was he getting fouled? Perhaps, but plays down low get physical both ways. And Porzingis is just faling to the ground to get calls. I think it's cheap.


They were playing him VERY physical last night. Arms draped all over him, grabbing his jersey, getting dragged to the ground. Im sure some of it was exaggerated but he doesnt put on a show about it lik Lebron and other players. Lebron is an all time great flopper. Hes such a joke.
RE: RE: RE: Props  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13692085 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13692079 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13692070 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


to Lebron. He's a wrestling fan and he's playing the heel perfectly.



i thought he said he didnt want to be the bad guy anynore?



And yet he's posting gifs of him as the joker as MSG explodes. He's having fun. I understand why Knicks fans are going nutty but on his end he's likely loving this. It's classic heel play for a wrestler.


oh i get exactly what he ia doing
RE: as crazy as it may sound and it is very very early  
blueblood : 11/14/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13691642 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but are the knicks 1 piece away at small forward from competing in the east?

you have a potential defensive stalwart at point, thjr who is averaging 18 4 and 3, kp averaging 30 and kanter averaging a double-double...

is it crazy to think that?


Nope because thats exactly what I was thinking last night. Ive been looking an nbadraft all day to see who are the small forwards coming out this year
RE: The worst part about blowing that game last night  
Stu11 : 11/14/2017 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13692036 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
is having to listen to espn sucking off lebron acting like he carried the cavs by hinself...

stephen a basically said frabk should respect lebron and that lebron did nothing wrong, how can any self claimed knick fan not be happy with the team standing up to
lebron?

and now lebron continues to troll on twitter about how he owns madison square garden and the knicks, yup completely ignorw the fact knicks went into cleveland and whooped the cavs...

god i hate lebron and the cavs, i wojld love to play them in the playoffs and knock them out

I know listen the guy made some big plays down the stretch, but that game is not even close for him at the end if Korver and company don't go like 10 for 11 on 3's in the 4th
Miles Bridges fits the Knicks profile.  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 2:26 pm : link
He has that "New York grit" KP was talking about a few days ago. But that would be a pretty slow-footed frontcourt with Bridges, KP and Kanter/Willy. I'd like a better athlete who can penetrate a bit.
And by the way I am really coming around to keeping this core together  
Stu11 : 11/14/2017 2:29 pm : link
and building from it. Some guys on the periphery may come and go like Lee/O'Quinn/Noah and the vet pg's...but I can see building a winning team around the rest depending on KP and Frank's ceilings. While the Hardaway deal was surely no bargain, it won't be an albatross either. He can play, and there is still upside there. We'll see how this plays out the remainder of the season but taking a look at the East the Knicks should be in the mix for a playoff spot as long as the bottom doesn't fall out or injuries hit. So the dream of landing a franchise type guy at the top of the draft may be moot. Obviously thanks to Noah and that horrific contract adding through free agency will be tough, but fuck all those guys, they just laugh us off any way. We have a solid young core who wants to be here. Lets see how it works out.
Noah  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 2:36 pm : link
and Baker seem like "lolKnicks" moves. At least Hardaway you see flashes of what they hope for. Noah and Baker...not so much.
RE: Miles Bridges fits the Knicks profile.  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13692127 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
He has that "New York grit" KP was talking about a few days ago. But that would be a pretty slow-footed frontcourt with Bridges, KP and Kanter/Willy. I'd like a better athlete who can penetrate a bit.


He likely ends up going higher than the Knicks pick, but Kevin Knox is a guy that fits the Knicks' needs.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 2:43 pm : link
not going to lose my shit if a strong defensive 5 is the pick. I don't see any scenario in which both Kanter and Willy are here long term and I think both would do well with a strong defensive partner. Obviously I would prefer a stud 3 but there are worse outcomes.
RE: Miles Bridges fits the Knicks profile.  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13692127 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
He has that "New York grit" KP was talking about a few days ago. But that would be a pretty slow-footed frontcourt with Bridges, KP and Kanter/Willy. I'd like a better athlete who can penetrate a bit.


i loved mjles bridges last year before he went back to school
Jarred Vanderbilt  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 2:50 pm : link
is one to monitor. Could be very intriguing if he can improve his range, Troy Brown
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: SI  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2017 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13691926 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13691863 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13691848 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13691834 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 13691820 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


19. New York Knicks KNICKS | MITCHELL ROBINSON, C | 19 YEARS OLD

Robinson will remain a bit of an enigma after leaving Western Kentucky to prepare for the draft on his own. He has the size, length and talent to be a first-round pick, but hes far from a lock at this stage given everything that can happen between now and next spring, when hell be able to work out for teams. Most NBA scouts have only seen him in quick spurts and in All-Star settings, and his feel for the game leaves something to be desired, so its a little concerning that he wont play competitively at all this season. Robinson could be a valuable shot-blocker and lob catcher around the basket, and should benefit from being part of a thinner draft class.


They have him passing on Musa, a kid I've been keeping my eyes on for a while. Another teen Euro, I think he'd be a sweet addition to Frank/KP (linked highlights below) Link - ( New Window )


I understand that most of these guys aren't here long term, but really, another center?



I think you go BPA when you have a team like the Knicks do. Willy and Kanter are both 1 way players as it is so if this kid is a defensive/athletic type he might be a nice add (not my first choice). As I said I'm digging Musa.



I havent seen much of Musa recently but didnt he struggle to play off the ball?



Reportedly scouts were "blown away" how far his game has come over the past 2 months from pure scorer to a more well rounded game. Keep in mind he'll only be 19 in May aka assuming he comes over next season he'll be approx the same age Frank is this season for us. he's very, very young and already showing he can handle the pro game. On the EXTREME high end you are looking at a Manu type.


I'll have to go watch some more. What's your thoughts on Bonga?
RE: I didn't say he invented it  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13691969 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
but he's making a habit of it this season and he keeps falling to the ground, and sometimes smirking after. It looks bad.


It's really hard to feel the same as you do about it knowing LeBron and so many other guys have made flopping around for whistles part of how they got to win championships.
Bonga  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 3:23 pm : link
certainly sounds like another guy to keep our eye on. He might be an especially intriguing fit with Frank considering Bonga is a guy who can even run the offense as a point forward type. I think his shot will dictate how good he can be but KP/Bonga/Frank could be a truly dynamic defensive trio with that length. Hard to say with these teen euros, one year to the next and the development can change exponentially. I (like most people) am extremely high on Kevin Wilson so if he likes Bonga (or doesn't) I trust him to make that call.
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 3:25 pm : link
NBA really should enforce anti-flopping more but because they don't it's hard to fault the players for doing it.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 4:46 pm : link
Andy Bailey‏Verified account
@AndrewDBailey
11m11 minutes ago
More
Top 20 in the NBA so far, according to the avg of their ranks in PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, WS, RPM & RPM Wins:

1-Harden
2-Curry
3-Giannis
4-LeBron
5-AD
6-Jokic
7-KD
8-Capela
9-Horford
10-Otto
11-Boogie
12-Drummond
13-Dame
14-Kyrie
15-Tyreke
16-Adams
17-Kemba
18-BobCov
19-PG
20-Pau
KP isn't one of the top 20 players right now?  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 4:56 pm : link
Geddafuckouttahere
RE: KP isn't one of the top 20 players right now?  
Giantology : 11/14/2017 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13692312 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Geddafuckouttahere


#1 in our hearts
600 year old Pay is better?  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 5:14 pm : link
Sure he is!
Who needs KP when you can have Tyreke Evans?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/14/2017 5:16 pm : link
...
Pau  
Greg from LI : 11/14/2017 5:16 pm : link
Curse you autocorrect
RE: KP isn't one of the top 20 players right now?  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 5:21 pm : link
In comment 13692312 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Geddafuckouttahere



He explained the results. If you have an issue with the stats he used that's fine but it's not like he interjected his opinion. I couldn't tell you WHY KP isn't top 20 but my guess is at least one of the stats he lags behind which pulled down his average. No biggy.
I  
DanMetroMan : 11/14/2017 5:27 pm : link
don't even particularly know how VORP works but KP "only" has a .4 VORP (not in the top 25) whereas the leader has a 1.6 (Harden) so that may have something to do with it. For what it's worth ESPN's new fangled stat has KP #7 in the NBA which I think is kind of silly as well because Curry is still better than KP by any reasonable measure. This guy has him #2, ESPN has him #9. I don't fully understand some of the NBA advanced numbers ie Capela is considered a God by the numbers.
Too right  
manh george : 11/14/2017 6:48 pm : link
Quote:
DanMetroMan

Hard to say with these teen euros, one year to the next and the development can change exponentially.


Which is one of the reasons why LeBron's anti-Jackson gobbledygook with a bank shot at Frank Ntilikina was so stupid.

1) Ok, Smith looks like a stud, and is a better overall player than Frank today.

2) LeBron has no idea how much Frank will improve, or how quickly. Neither do any of us. I KNOW he will be a great defender. I expect that he will be a very good shooter. I don't know how much more athletic he will get with US strength training techniques.

I know he is very long, has soft hands, and good vision, and already has quick enough hands to make some remarkable defensive plays for a skinny 19 year old.

Which one will be better in two years? No idea. I like our chances. I like Smith's chances, too.
In the end, people are always going to be biased towards the american  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2017 8:54 pm : link
college player they feel like they can actually project.

The Knicks still drafted a 19 year old pass-first (8.3 assists per 36 minutes) Point Guard who is currently first in steals per 100 possessions and second in deflections per 36 minutes. Anyone in these threads would have signed up for this without question. They just didn't expect it from him.

He's already exceeded my expectations in that he doesn't look surprised by the step up in competition, he's already showed that late-game situations don't bother him and he is confident enough not to be intimidated by the biggest star in the sport trying to make him look bad. He needs to work on his offense, yes, and that's perfectly fine. He is what they needed, a guy that is more concerned with making the offense and players around him better.





Frank's defense is scary good.  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 9:00 pm : link
I loved that steal of Wade he had when he wasn't even guarding him - just used his Inspector Gadget arms to pluck it away while Wade was driving toward the paint.
C'mon now. We are Knicks fans here and want Frank to do well, but  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/14/2017 9:08 pm : link
if you ask other basketball fans whom they'd rather have, 99% would say Dennis Smith Jr. Go look at the highlights of the Mavs-Cavs game, and I feel confident in saying that Frank won't ever develop anything close to the type of prowess on offense that Smith has already shown, also at 19 years old.

Would you turn down Harden or Curry because they don't play defense and are ball hogs? Of course not. Except for Paul and Wall, which other celebrated PG's actually play defense? Most importantly, at the end of games, when opposing teams double Porzingis, can you give the ball to Frank and have him make a play for you? I don't know, maybe he will eventually be able to, but I already know Smith can.

If Smith's knee holds up, he's the better player. Let's be honest, we'd all be ecstatic if Smith was on the Knicks. LeBron is a douche, fuck him, but there is some truth to what he said.

Frank's defense has certainly impressed, but his offensive game is still so rudimentary. For our sake, let's hope all your projections for his offense come true down the line.
fair post Jim.  
Del Shofner : 11/14/2017 9:15 pm : link
.
I think Frank is perfect for this Knicks team  
moespree : 11/14/2017 9:17 pm : link
His play meshes well with KP. I can't say if Smith Jr. would. I actually have some doubts. I think Frank and KP can develop into a deadly pick and roll tandem.

And Frank is going to be an elite defender in this version of modern day NBA. There are going to be certain players who will be clueless what to do against that type of aggressive in your face defense.
Not everyone on a basketball court is going to be a 20 point scorer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2017 9:20 pm : link
or has to be. I don't know Smith's game. I know he makes a lot of highlights, but especially considering that the Knicks have had a transcendent scorer in his prime on this team very recently, I feel like it's a little funny that we might be putting too much weight on scoring and undervaluing the worth of a true PG, especially when the current NBA is incredibly guard-driven. They're so hard to find. Guys who can score aren't.
Good points Jim.  
bceagle05 : 11/14/2017 9:28 pm : link
Let's face it - ideally you want one of each in your backcourt, right? A scorer and a defensive stopper. Houston had that with Harden and Beverly, Golden State has it with Steph and Klay (obviously Klay is great offensively, too).

As it pertains to the Knicks, Smith Jr. and Hardaway Jr. would be excellent offensively and woeful defensively. Frank and Hardaway complement each other, but the Knicks will need to find a little more scoring if they want to become serious contenders. Timmy is fine for the time being, but we'll need to upgrade that spot or find a SF who can score the basketball.
why does frank have to be a gret offensive player  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 9:32 pm : link
to be better than smith? if he is an eljte defender and averaging 14 and 8 is that not a star player?

he changes the game on the defensive end and smith effects the offensive end they are 2 completely different players...

if smith goes put and drops 24 and has 5 assists, he roughly accounted for 34 points that game

frank has 10 points 7 assists and 6 steals, lets say 4 of them led to scores... that is 28 points he directly effected...

you see frank does not need to go out and score 20 points to effect a game, if smith scores 10 points did he effect the game?



I get that Frank is different, and on the Knicks it's certain  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/14/2017 9:33 pm : link
refreshing. Having a ball-dominant forward in Anthony is different than a ball-dominant PG who can drive and dish or create for others. Smith has shown he can do that off penetration. Having a penetrating PG who can score on his own and create for others would've done wonders for this offense. Defense is important, I fully realize that, but not when you are sacrificing offense for it. Can Frank develop a legitimate offense game befitting of a top echelon NBA PG? We don't know, you can project all you want, but it's wishful thinking at this point.

Listen, we are not a star-studded roster missing a glue piece. KP is the only real piece we have, I guarantee that most of us would've envisioned KP + DSJ being 2/3 of the Big Three had we drafted Smith Jr.

It is what it is, I am not here to bash Frank. I want him to do well. He surprised me by standing up to LeBron last night, that was awesome. But his offense has a long way to go, and you can't argue that.
Having to fill a need for a scoring wing is a MUCH easier thing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/14/2017 9:34 pm : link
to have to do than having to fill a hole at PG. The last 15 years of Knicks basketball has literally been trying one combo guard after another because you simply can't get into draft position to get a real PG prospect.

Even though I think traditional position roles are essentially dead these days, they do lack that attacking wing player, and that would be something of a missing piece for this offense, but those guys actually do fall in the draft.
Jim  
BigBlueShock : 11/14/2017 9:35 pm : link
That part about Smiths knee holding up should be highlighted, not thrown in as some kind of far off conclusion. His knee injury is real and a major reason that he dropped in the draft. Maybe you're comfortable using a top 8 pick on a guy with major injury concerns, but I'm not. Maybe Smith overcomes those concerns but you can't blame the Knicks for passing.
and i am not saying frank doesnt have to get more agressive  
nygiants16 : 11/14/2017 9:35 pm : link
he still has a lot of work to do and needs to shoot the ball when he is open and stop being so passive
I pointed out about how I want Frank to be more aggressive  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/14/2017 10:53 pm : link
on offense. Also take note that Frank is the youngest guy in the league right now. He will develop his offense, and I think he will be a better all around player than Smith Jr.
I want Frank to be more aggressive, too.  
manh george : 11/14/2017 11:31 pm : link
However, at this point in his career, I would have been pretty surprised to see Frank crashing down the lane on a regular basis. The kid is as green as grass. Consider this:

Quote:
On October 15, 2015, Ntilikina logged his first EuroLeague minutes (with SIG Strasbourg), scoring one point in 12 minutes and 16 seconds of play against KK Crvena Zvezda. He saw the court in 32 contests during the 201516 Pro A season, scoring 1.3 points per game, and he was named the league's "Best Young Player"


That's right, his Euroleague career started exactly two years ago, and in the season that followed, he was averaging 1.3 points per game.

Consider the progression to a year later:

Quote:
He was spectacular in helping France's Under-18 national team win the 2016 FIBA Europe Under-18 Championship, scoring 31 points, including 7-for-10 from three-point range, in the championship game against the Under-18 Lithuanian team.[19] He averaged 15.2 points, 4.5 assists, 2.8 rebounds, and 2.2 steals a game in the tournament, draining 50 percent of his field goal attempts, including 58.6 percent of his shots from long distance,[20] en route to Most Valuable Player honors.


The kid is hundreds of miles from being a seasoned pro. I think he has a world of upside. He will also get bigger and stronger, starting at 6'5" 190 now. What if he were to grow another inch and add 20 pounds over a couple of years? He could be a monster.

Btw, good analysis of the Cleveland loss, linked. 1) Hornacek stayed with Enes too long when Cleveland went smallball. 2) Quick flare screens and space for Korver to get off his notoriously quick three-point shot devastated the Knicks in the fourth quarter, and it was a symptom of Hornaceks resistance to playing his wing defenders, Lance Thomas and Courtney Lee, and trusting his team with Porzingis at center. Two big men together didn't work when the Cavaliers shooters got hot. Who was going to chase out to the arc? A. Neither.
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