I've put more attention on the QBs this year than ever before...partially because of my role with Ourlads being expanded, but also with NYG's 2018 Draft intentions.
The names we all thought would make this QB class elite (Allen-Darnold-Rosen-Jackson) have been underwhelming. I've seen each of them 5+ times this year, and Rosen is the only one I would take in the top 5 overall. That can change...a lot of work still needs to be done and they still have a few games left.
But the name I can't get away from is Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma. At 6'1, he is under the desired height most look for in an elite QB prospect. He plays in a spread attack that is somewhat simple read wise (not as simple as some). He is doing things that he simply won't get away with in the NFL.
That said, he may end up being my top graded QB. His physical shortcomings don't impact his game. He can stand tall in the pocket, does a great job of seeing and throwing through traffic. Unreal release that can be repeated time after time in any situation. Very good accuracy to all three levels. The mobility is used to pass, not to run. Keeps his eyes downfield and will always look to throw, the running is a third or fourth option. And I think this kid is one of the toughest SOBs I had ever scouted at the position. Loves the game, the passion oozes out of him. A gamer that will rise to the occasion, finds ways to get it done.
I am surprised to be saying this...but I may want him as the next NYG quarterback.
Just so we are clear, Rosen did anchor one of the biggest comebacks in college football history against a team that was much better than UCLA.
And Darnold has shown plenty of heart in the two years he’s been USC’s qb. You can’t count him out if any game either.
I think that every year, people are always looking for that perfect qb prospect, and that rarely if ever really presents itself like that. There are always ways to knock these guys down a peg or two. Darnold and Rosen, these guys are only juniors, I can only think that in five years, both of these guys are going to be franchise qb’s for some lucky NFL teams.
Probably barely 6ft if that
The skill position players surround Allen last year made it to the NFL, including a receiver, tight end and running back. Both his head coach Craig Bohl and the anonymous scout brought this up, yet Allen completed 56-percent of his passes last season. In fact, his completion percentage has not changed this year. "Here’s what you get—coaches say, ‘I can fix that guy," the scout said of position coaches who like Allen. They bank on their ability, but accuracy has been a difficult trait to improve."
Source: SI.com
I'm still not sold on any QB for us tat high...give Webb a shot and draft Barkley (assuming he is available)...
I'm also not sure how his college game will translate to the NFL.
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In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:
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If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.
Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?
This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.
I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.
What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).
He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.
I'm also not sure how his college game will translate to the NFL.
Actually less talented than Manziel, but he may have an inch or two on Manziel, and he's not a head case. He's a hard worker, and that shouldn't be lost in translation.
Check it out at the :30 mark
Mayfield bomb vs. Texas - ( New Window )
In 2019 tho-
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In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:
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If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.
Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?
This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.
I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.
What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).
He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.
Nobody seems to make these excuses for Lamar Jackson, who's offensive line is terrible and has receivers that can't catch.
Yet he's putting up better numbers and improving his completion percentage against better competition.
+1. I watch a lot of Big 12 games. Show me a QB there who isnt lighting it up. Texas has a freshmen who is putting uo big numbets, lets draft him.
But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.
Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.
If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.
I might be nitpicking but Allen has nothing in common with Marino. His release isn't even close to Marino's release. Wrist? No.
I wasn't high on the Webb pick...I didn't and still do not like him as a starting QB in the NFL. I think his work ethic and passion for the game are top notch. He is a film but, workaholic type. But I don't think that means he is the heir apparent to Eli.
Davis is a career backup in my eyes
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Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you.
I wasn't high on the Webb pick...I didn't and still do not like him as a starting QB in the NFL. I think his work ethic and passion for the game are top notch. He is a film but, workaholic type. But I don't think that means he is the heir apparent to Eli.
Davis is a career backup in my eyes
Couldn't agree more.
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In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:
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If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.
Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?
This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.
I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.
What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).
He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.
Nobody seems to make these excuses for Lamar Jackson, who's offensive line is terrible and has receivers that can't catch.
Yet he's putting up better numbers and improving his completion percentage against better competition.
Either way, he would be an electric player for a few years anyway.
With his speed one has to wonder if he could move to WR as well if the QB thing doesn't work out. He'd seem to be a threat there as he has all the measurables.
Either way, he would be an electric player for a few years anyway.
With his speed one has to wonder if he could move to WR as well if the QB thing doesn't work out. He'd seem to be a threat there as he has all the measurables.
I’ve been a Jackson guy for over a year. Would love him in blue. He will be the best of the lot. Just watch.
Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!
If we take a QB in the top 5, I hope that we sit the QB behind Eli for one more year. Even if we need to plan after Eli, he deserves the opportunity to get one more chance to end things here on a better note than this disaster of a season. To boot, it wouldn't hurt a young QB to take a red-shirt year behind Eli.
Now the real scouts, they throw everything else into the equation. And if both Rosen and Darnold declare, Mayfield will be the 3rd Qb taken.. But as often times they do, the scouts and NFL guys will over think this one. Mayfield is Russell Wilson 2.0.
It's too bad, because I think he could be great. If you just drafted the guy with the mindset of using him to his full ability for the length of his rookie deal, you'd really have something.
It's the need to be able to say you have the guy for the next 10 years that leads to problems.
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Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...
Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
.
There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!
Mayfield does NOT lack arm strength. It’s a misconception based off his size. He makes every throw including across the field and can do it off balanced. Best arm in this class? No. You say he can’t run around like he does now b/c he isn’t fast - you don’t need a burner, you need someone to buy time in today’s NFL. Mayfield buys time like Russell Wilson. Always has his eyes downfield.
I could see a Jeff Garcia type down he road, which could be fine. But no way Brees or Russell.
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In comment 13693632 bw in dc said:
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Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...
Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
.
There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!
Mayfield does NOT lack arm strength. It’s a misconception based off his size. He makes every throw including across the field and can do it off balanced. Best arm in this class? No. You say he can’t run around like he does now b/c he isn’t fast - you don’t need a burner, you need someone to buy time in today’s NFL. Mayfield buys time like Russell Wilson. Always has his eyes downfield.
He's not going to run around like Wilson at the next level,
Wilson has the intangibles, and a high football IQ.
That's one of the reasons he CAN move around like he does.
He had them in college as well.
Nope, don't see it and he does lack arm strength IMO.
The BIG 12 conference is not exactly known for its defense as well...
My pecking order would be Allen, Darnold, then Rosen
on the QB's mentioned.
He's not going to run around like Wilson at the next level,
Wilson has the intangibles, and a high football IQ.
That's one of the reasons he CAN move around like he does.
He had them in college as well.
Nope, don't see it and he does lack arm strength IMO.
The BIG 12 conference is not exactly known for its defense as well...
My pecking order would be Allen, Darnold, then Rosen
on the QB's mentioned.
I'm not sure what the order is, but I think you have the right three - assuming they all come out. Allen is the most physically gifted, Darnell looks like a guy, and this is important, who will be willing to hand tough in the pocket and make throws (and that is critical), and Rosen looks like the most interesting mix of many parts but does not do anything spectacular...yet.
I think Oklahoma caught Ohio State at the right time - early. The Buckeyes secondary is young and basically all new from last year, especially when they had Lattimore and Conley taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. I’m not sure if that would happen again...
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What are we to make of his performance against Ohio State where he completed 77% of his passes threw for 356 yds and 3 tds.
I think Oklahoma caught Ohio State at the right time - early. The Buckeyes secondary is young and basically all new from last year, especially when they had Lattimore and Conley taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. I’m not sure if that would happen again...
Well, I hope Oklahoma makes it into the playoff, cause I want to see Mayfield against top defenses.
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You'd need to mold the offense to his skills, and I don't think many NFL coaches are willing to do that.
It's too bad, because I think he could be great. If you just drafted the guy with the mindset of using him to his full ability for the length of his rookie deal, you'd really have something.
It's the need to be able to say you have the guy for the next 10 years that leads to problems.
Couldn't agree more with Go Terps. Of course it's nice to get a guy who can play for a long time, but the strategy of drafting talent early who won't be able to play for a long time kind of defeats the advantages given to teams who draft well. By the time your player is ready to make an impact he's only a year or two away from a big payday. After that you're basically paying him full FA dollars or dealing with cap issues like Cousins is giving the Redskins.
On the other hand, if you do want a long-term solution at QB you're not going to find any good ones in FA. That's the problem.
So ideally you build your system like Reid has in KC, one that may not be a "pro-style" offense but where a player can do very well. Like Dallas modified its offense to take advantage of its running game and what Dak could manage as a rookie.
Here's what McAdoo said about the KC offense when asked about Alex Smith's unbelievably low INT rate and success this year:
Advantages always go to coaches who find undervalued playmakers - like BB did with TE's and shorter receivers, or like KC has done with taking guys who aren't the typical size.
It's why the one retread coach I'm interested in is Brad Childress. I think he might be capable of doing similar things here after all his years of working with Reid and the success he had in Minny.