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I'll tell you what (NFL Draft - QB)

Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 8:36 am
I've put more attention on the QBs this year than ever before...partially because of my role with Ourlads being expanded, but also with NYG's 2018 Draft intentions.

The names we all thought would make this QB class elite (Allen-Darnold-Rosen-Jackson) have been underwhelming. I've seen each of them 5+ times this year, and Rosen is the only one I would take in the top 5 overall. That can change...a lot of work still needs to be done and they still have a few games left.

But the name I can't get away from is Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma. At 6'1, he is under the desired height most look for in an elite QB prospect. He plays in a spread attack that is somewhat simple read wise (not as simple as some). He is doing things that he simply won't get away with in the NFL.

That said, he may end up being my top graded QB. His physical shortcomings don't impact his game. He can stand tall in the pocket, does a great job of seeing and throwing through traffic. Unreal release that can be repeated time after time in any situation. Very good accuracy to all three levels. The mobility is used to pass, not to run. Keeps his eyes downfield and will always look to throw, the running is a third or fourth option. And I think this kid is one of the toughest SOBs I had ever scouted at the position. Loves the game, the passion oozes out of him. A gamer that will rise to the occasion, finds ways to get it done.

I am surprised to be saying this...but I may want him as the next NYG quarterback.
If he checks all the boxes  
The_Boss : 11/15/2017 8:40 am : link
and the (new) regime agrees with you aftr their evaluation, I'd be fine. My preference is likely going to be Darnold (who has played better as of late) if he declares, then Rosen tho.
RE: If he checks all the boxes  
The_Boss : 11/15/2017 8:41 am : link
In comment 13692708 The_Boss said:
Quote:
and the (new) regime agrees with you aftr their evaluation, I'd be fine. My preference is likely going to be Darnold (who has played better as of late) if he declares, then Rosen tho.


** after **
'His physical shortcomings don't impact his game.'  
Torrag : 11/15/2017 8:43 am : link
Maybe at the collee level they don't but they could in the NFL.

Dranold is 20 years old and will be the best pro QB in this class. If we're drafting Eli's replacement(and don't waste our time with talk of passing on these guys for Webb, because you don't get this opportunity often)...then Darnold is the guy. He may not be the best player this season but he's the best pro prospect.
rebuilding lines and backers and etc  
idiotsavant : 11/15/2017 8:45 am : link
can be such a fun project if done right, with strong enough emphasis.

Draft a QB in 2019, see what Webb has, run out mannings contract.
I couldn't agree more.  
BLUATHRT : 11/15/2017 8:46 am : link
Mayfield has the "it" factor that you don't really see with the other QB's in this draft. I think when you combine that with the skills that he displays, teams would be foolish to overlook him because of height ideals. Rosen has great talent but has never really carried his team. Darnold is way too inconsistent for my taste. I think Mayfield has some learning to do in terms of reads, but he's special.
Didn't Webb beat him out?  
George from PA : 11/15/2017 8:48 am : link
if Mayfield is the best....I would take offers to trade down and see what we have with Webb.

with extra picks:

Fortify OL....I still feel Flowers and Fluker would be great on right side

One more stud WR....adding to stable of OBJ, Shepard and Engram

Get an All-Star LB....we must get a Defensive leader.

Get another Corner...to replace DRC.

RE: Didn't Webb beat him out?  
Sean : 11/15/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13692718 George from PA said:
Quote:
if Mayfield is the best....I would take offers to trade down and see what we have with Webb.

with extra picks:

Fortify OL....I still feel Flowers and Fluker would be great on right side

One more stud WR....adding to stable of OBJ, Shepard and Engram

Get an All-Star LB....we must get a Defensive leader.

Get another Corner...to replace DRC.


Why do people love trading down? He has that worked for the Browns?
Mayfield  
AcidTest : 11/15/2017 8:54 am : link
is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.
Webb and Mayfield  
Sammo85 : 11/15/2017 8:58 am : link
Were both recruited to Texas Tech I believe.

I’ve grown to like Mayfield. My preference is Rosen as I love his arm. But watching Mayfield I see a guy whose arm can play at the NFL level. The key is what kind of offense you build around him. Him and Eli are two totally different QBs in every way possible.

My feeling is as long as we are in the Top 3 we are taking a QB.
Interested to see you on board  
Kyle in NY : 11/15/2017 9:00 am : link
I want this kid as my QB as well. I'm a big fan
This is a key for me  
Kyle in NY : 11/15/2017 9:03 am : link
Quote:
And I think this kid is one of the toughest SOBs I had ever scouted at the position. Loves the game, the passion oozes out of him. A gamer that will rise to the occasion, finds ways to get it done.


Love this about him. Not sure you're getting this with some of the other prospects. Especially Rosen, as talented as he may be.

My question now is, how far can we trade down and still be able to get Baker?
He's taller than Wilson and Brees  
njm : 11/15/2017 9:06 am : link
6'1" may not be ideal but it's not disqualifying. We'll have to see how things progress for the rest of the season, and particularly where he lines up to be picked in the draft.

The only 2 teams with 2 selections in the 1st rd. at this point are Cleveland and Buffalo. Cleveland will not have to trade up. It will be interesting to see where Buffalo's picks end up.
RE: Mayfield  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 9:09 am : link
In comment 13692726 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.


Josh Allen has all those things but so did Jamarcus Russell. Allen just isn't a good QB
How do you feel about him coming from a Spread?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/15/2017 9:11 am : link
I feel like its always very tough to figure out if a player can learn an NFL offense coming from a Spread attack. The reads are usual 1 look and progressions are non existent. What's your take on it Sy'?
This is what I don’t get  
WillVAB : 11/15/2017 9:15 am : link
You have reservations about all of the QBs, but then you want the Giants to take one anyways. It’s like a guy catching his fiancé cheating before the wedding, gets married anyways, then wonders why he’s divorced in 5 years. The Giants can do other things besides forcing a QB pick, and it’s not like this is the last year the QB position exists in college.

Regarding Mayfield, there’s a lot to like. But I also feel like he gets away with things at the college level that won’t fly in the NFL. Makes me wonder if his game would translate to the NFL level.
I don't see it  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 9:16 am : link
Not in the top 3. I don't see the arm strength someone like Brees has.
Sy  
Andy in Boston : 11/15/2017 9:20 am : link
who would you compare him to now in the NFL?
So at 6'1"  
lugnut : 11/15/2017 9:21 am : link
He's right in between Brees and Favre. And 2"-3" taller than Wilson. Yes, absolutely, his height should disqualify him.

If the Giants have size requirements then they should throw 'em out the window. Lotta people (and maybe Giants FO?) said Aaron Donald was too small to make it in the NFL, so...At least, some guys have other things, especially intangibles, that make up for size, and for all the reasons stated by Sy, Mayfield looks to be the case, too.
Sy  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 9:21 am : link
Mayfield has been my favorite QB in the draft for some time. I love his passion, leadership, and accuracy. I really hope that he is our 1st round pick. If they can trade down and get him that would be even better. I am concerned that the Giants will pass due to his height and go for a guy like Allen instead.
just watched some highlights.....  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:21 am : link
looks impressive. Also looks like a "Phil Simms" type......meaning he looks to have a ton of passion to his game.

Size would concern me......

Whatever QB they take, if they take one, coaching/system/environment have a lot to do with the success of the player.

Sy  
lugnut : 11/15/2017 9:23 am : link
What's your take on Mason Rudolph? He never seems to be discussed here. Size certainly isn't the issue.
RE: RE: Mayfield  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13692743 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13692726 AcidTest said:


Quote:


is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.



Josh Allen has all those things but so did Jamarcus Russell. Allen just isn't a good QB


There are a ton of high pick QBs that fail, it's part of the deal.

In Russell's case, I think desire was a big question mark. And that should have come out in the interviews, you'd hope.
Don't mind Baker  
uncledave : 11/15/2017 9:26 am : link
but prefer Josh Allen
. . . .  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 9:28 am : link
Quote:
Mayfield is undersized for the NFL with just average arm strength. He can have issues reading defenses. One big area for improvement for Mayfield is his footwork as he gets happy feet in the pocket. One college scouting director told me that Mayfield's feet are terrible.

In speaking with one NFL general manager, they said they liked Mayfield and had a fourth-round grade on him. Their team always grades quarterbacks hard, and they like how Mayfield has played this year. He could end up being a second-day pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.





Link - ( New Window )
If a guy like Mayfield is the choice....  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:28 am : link
and can be obtained lower in the draft order, that's where trading down and acquiring extra pick(s) can really go a long way.

That's why having a GM who can see the board and project is very important, and why I would definitely let Reese go.
RE: . . . .  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13692775 jeff57 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Mayfield is undersized for the NFL with just average arm strength. He can have issues reading defenses. One big area for improvement for Mayfield is his footwork as he gets happy feet in the pocket. One college scouting director told me that Mayfield's feet are terrible.

In speaking with one NFL general manager, they said they liked Mayfield and had a fourth-round grade on him. Their team always grades quarterbacks hard, and they like how Mayfield has played this year. He could end up being a second-day pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.




Link - ( New Window )


Funny, his feet reminded me of no other than Peyton Manning LOL.......

It would be intresting to read the early scouting reports on Wentz and Goff.

I distinctly remember some reports saying those guys, in a normal class, would be 2nd round picks but the need for QBs vaulted them up to a 1st round choice.

That changed over time......but people were saying that.
I am still firmly in the Darnold camp.  
barens : 11/15/2017 9:32 am : link
I think he has all of the tools, and has the best demeanor. Sort of reminds me of Eli in that he just doesn't get fazed.

Mayfield, I don't disagree, I just can't put him ahead of Darnold or Rosen yet until after the college football playoffs, and the NFL combine and such.
I’m more  
tony71 : 11/15/2017 9:36 am : link
Interested in how the top QBs compare to Webb. From my understanding the reason Webb is coming along slower is because he is from a Soread Offense. Are we drafting another kid in the first round only to be at the same situation we are in now ,with having to let the new guy get used to a different offense? I keep hearing how we need to go grab a QB with the first round because we will be top 3.. but I haven’t heard who shows more promise then the one we got in the last Draft. Maybe I’m just not reading the right articles, but I’d really hate to do the typical thing we done in the past where we draft someone new and let the guy go we had only to get whipped on by that same guy later.. Hate to draft someone just because it’s a top spot, when who we have is just as good
Sy  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 9:37 am : link
What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?
Sam darnold  
jtgiants : 11/15/2017 9:39 am : link
For my money is going to be a great q.b. if we go the route of quarterback he is hands down the guy I want. This year hasn't been great but history shows that has no bearing on translating to the NFL. Many great qb's last year in college wasn't great. Ill be stunned when its all said and done if he escapes the first pick in the draft let alone top 5
"He is doing things that he simply won't get away with in the NFL."  
David B. : 11/15/2017 9:41 am : link
That's the phrase that worries me. Guys like that typically DON'T stop doing those things once they get to the NFL.

Still in the Rosen camp for now.
I want to know  
Doomster : 11/15/2017 9:46 am : link
if he is wearing lifts....
Mayfield  
RetroJint : 11/15/2017 9:46 am : link
Is my choice, too.
I'd still have concerns due to the lack of defense in the Big XII  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2017 9:46 am : link
.
Like Rosen  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 9:47 am : link
But I'm in the minority in that I really like Jackson. But can't see him a Giants with his style of play.
I don't know I'm just not sold on any of them  
PatersonPlank : 11/15/2017 9:48 am : link
Darnold definitely needs another year, Rosen has had some real clunkers and has some issues, Allen has not been good, and Baker and Rudolph play in a conference that doesn't play D. Lots of QB's from the Big 12 bust, and I would bet more than the average, because of this.

Add this to the fact that Webbs senior stats are likely better than all of these kids, at a Pac-12 school, and I don't see what the rush to the alter is all about. We have lots of other holes to address, and to add another QB project behind Eli instead of a OL starter (for example) doesn't strike me as the right thing to do. If Webb doesn't work out I'm sure there will be more "franchise" QB's in next years draft too (including Darnold).
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13692756 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
who would you compare him to now in the NFL?


I see a blend of Marcus Mariota/Matthew Stafford/Kirk Cousins
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13692783 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?


I would say it is very possible right now...Traditonally guys like him just don't go early.
Sy  
Mike in NY : 11/15/2017 9:58 am : link
If he declares, what are your thoughts on NC State QB Ryan Finley?
RE: RE: Didn't Webb beat him out?  
jvm52106 : 11/15/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13692725 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13692718 George from PA said:


Quote:


if Mayfield is the best....I would take offers to trade down and see what we have with Webb.

with extra picks:

Fortify OL....I still feel Flowers and Fluker would be great on right side

One more stud WR....adding to stable of OBJ, Shepard and Engram

Get an All-Star LB....we must get a Defensive leader.

Get another Corner...to replace DRC.




Why do people love trading down? He has that worked for the Browns?


The Browns are a horrible example.. I would trade down. We need more picks...
Mayfield is the anti-Eli  
Pepe LePugh : 11/15/2017 10:01 am : link
in some ways. Vocal/emotional leadership, mobile..........
Curious to see who the new coach will be and the philosophy  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/15/2017 10:01 am : link
Baker's a gamer and looks like he has the arm talent. I do like the energy he brings. Its like Davis Webb has competed with all of these guys already.

Sy, any thoughts on Trace McSorley from Penn State? He and Mayfield remind me of each other, does he have any pro potential?
RE: RE: Sy  
Capt. Don : 11/15/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13692803 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13692783 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?



I would say it is very possible right now...Traditonally guys like him just don't go early.


Jesus - If we could get Barkley with our 1st and Mayfield in the 2nd.

Shades of LdT and Brees.
Let the Browns pick him  
JonC : 11/15/2017 10:03 am : link
leave us Darnold and then Rosen.
He could be the next Derek Carr  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 10:05 am : link
Not in terms of style of play but a QB that goes after several others and ends up being the best of the class.
Disagree  
Marty866b : 11/15/2017 10:08 am : link
Darnold and Rosen have more physical ability then Mayfield. Yes,there is Brees and Wilson but qb's who are very successful these days at Mayfield's size are few and far between. Darnold will only be 20 years old when the draft is held and is still fairly inexperienced but has all the physical tools,highly coachable,can get you big plays with his legs,and has the demeanor to play in NY. There is NO CHANCE Mayfield will be selected before Darnold or Rosen.
Say, Baker is my choice too.  
Giant John : 11/15/2017 10:11 am : link
I have not watched anyone that matches his talent, heart and desire to win. The kid is just a rare combination of what It takes to be that special player. The others have not impressed me close to the same level. Go get him Giants. You won't be sorry.
Say = Sy  
Giant John : 11/15/2017 10:12 am : link
Damn auto check...
RE: RE: Didn't Webb beat him out?  
giants#1 : 11/15/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13692725 Sean said:
Quote:



Why do people love trading down? He has that worked for the Browns?


Apples to oranges. Browns don't have a QB. Giants have Eli for 2 more years and potentially Webb beyond that.
Webb beat him out  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 10:30 am : link
And Mahomes beat out Webb. Therefore, the answer is simple: Trade for Mahomes.
RE: Webb beat him out  
Mike in NY : 11/15/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13692850 jeff57 said:
Quote:
And Mahomes beat out Webb. Therefore, the answer is simple: Trade for Mahomes.


Hire John Dorsey as GM!
Allen is awful  
widmerseyebrow : 11/15/2017 10:35 am : link
If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.
the  
Les in TO : 11/15/2017 10:35 am : link
great/elite QBs in the NFL work their butt off and go the extra mile to hone their craft. it's what separates the football junkies like peyton manning or Andrew luck from the party animal or hothead busts like ryan leaf or johnny manziel.

Sy - do you have any insight into the work ethic/hunger/intensity for the game that these prospects possess, either as a positive or red flag?
RE: Allen is awful  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/15/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.


Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?
Sy'56  
Marty866b : 11/15/2017 10:47 am : link
Have you scouted Drew Locke from Missouri?
RE: RE: Allen is awful  
PatersonPlank : 11/15/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.



Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?


This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: Sy  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13692819 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 13692803 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13692783 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?



I would say it is very possible right now...Traditonally guys like him just don't go early.



Jesus - If we could get Barkley with our 1st and Mayfield in the 2nd.

Shades of LdT and Brees.


I'd lean more towards Fitzpatrick or James, Mayfield in the 2nd then a guy like Sony Michel later. I know the draft simulators are eh, but this would be a haul.


Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 3: Minkah Fitzpatrick, CB/CB, Alabama (A)
Round 2 Pick 3: Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma (C+)
Round 3 Pick 3: Frank Ragnow, C/OG, Arkansas (A-)
Round 4 Pick 3: Anthony Miller, WR, Memphis (A+)
Round 5 Pick 3: Tyrone Crowder, OG, Clemson (B)
Round 6 Pick 3: Sony Michel, RB, Georgia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 3: Iman Marshall, CB, Southern California (A+)
If Mayfield can be had later in the first  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 11:07 am : link
I would either favor the Giants taking Quentin Nelson or Barkley with their first pick and then trading up into the end of round 1 to get Mayfield. Or they could trade down a couple of times and accumulate several picks and take Mayfield. I really hope that Reese is gone because they need a new GM who will be more flexible in the draft. It blows my mind that Reese has never traded down in the draft and I doubt that he would start now.
RE: If Mayfield can be had later in the first  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13692903 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I would either favor the Giants taking Quentin Nelson or Barkley with their first pick and then trading up into the end of round 1 to get Mayfield. Or they could trade down a couple of times and accumulate several picks and take Mayfield. I really hope that Reese is gone because they need a new GM who will be more flexible in the draft. It blows my mind that Reese has never traded down in the draft and I doubt that he would start now.


I like the first option over trading down
Fitzpatrick  
Marty866b : 11/15/2017 11:09 am : link
If I'm picking a corner with the third overall pick he better be future hall of famer. Don't see it with Fitzpatrick. We better pick a quarterback.
To QB or not to QB  
Colin@gbn : 11/15/2017 11:12 am : link
Morning guys: Really interesting thread Dave. I have actually been wondering the same thing myself in recent weeks. What I am hearing from my sources around the league is that if Mayfield was 6-4 he'd be the top prospect overall hands down this year. In fact, I have had more than one person tell me that if Mayfield were 6-4 he'd be the best prospect since Andrew Luck hands down. And if it ends up that he's the guy the Giants like - and they are one of 4 teams that had personnel people at the OU-TCU game last week - then you take and don't screw around with trade downs because if you like him that much other teams are going to also.

Here's the frustrating reality of life in the NFL and the draft. Of the top 5-6 QB prospects this year, the odds are that a couple turn out to be legit franchise passers, two more turn out to be journeyman types and two will be pretty much busts. And the reality is that in the end no one - not me, not Dave Sy, not Mel Kiper, not Mike Mayock, not Bill Belichek, not Ron Wolf and certainly not anyone in the peanut gallery howling at the moon - can predict with any more accuracy than a monkey throwing darts at a dart board which two will end up being the stars, which two will be the journeyman and which two will be the busts. But that ain't gonna stop anybody 2-3 years down the road from calling the GMs that took the stars geniuses and those that took the busts idiots. (I once wrote Jerry Reese a note and said that the Giants big problem with their drafts is that they insist on making their picks in April. They'd do so much better if they waited until October or later even!)

I am also assuming that everyone knows that USC plays UCLA on Saturday evening at 8 PM on ABC so we'll get a chance to watch them go head-to-head. Also a little bonus coverage to consider. later htis evening (7 PM ET on ESPN2) check out Western Michigan LT Chukes Okorafor (#77, 6-6, 330) one of the better second-tier OL prospects in this year's draft. One of the fascinating aspects of this year's draft with the Giants almost assuredly set to take a QB in Rd1 is what they do in Rd2 which will have some really good prospects at a number of positions.

RE: Fitzpatrick  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13692908 Marty866b said:
Quote:
If I'm picking a corner with the third overall pick he better be future hall of famer. Don't see it with Fitzpatrick. We better pick a quarterback.


I think he would have a Ramsey type impact on the defense
Thank you Colin  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 11:19 am : link
If I had my choice of QB's it would be Mayfield. As for the 2nd round pick I think they must use it to add an OL. Whether that be a guard, center, or OT it doesn't matter. The only sure thing for the offensive line next year is that Flowers will be starting at either LT or RT. Jones and Wheeler will be back in some capacity. I assume Jones will be the starting center. It is unfortunate that Jessamen Dunker is out for the season because it would have been beneficial to be on the roster right now gaining some experience.
Love Mayfield  
nyballa0891 : 11/15/2017 11:24 am : link
I've been clamoring for him in the second/third round and for the giants to go BPA in the 1st. Guys his size don't go first round, do you really think that will change this year?
Everybody is clamoring about size  
Jeever : 11/15/2017 11:35 am : link
What's the size of these QB's hearts. From what I've seen of Mayfield he's a winner, a natural born leader and gets the job done.

Let's face it Phil McConkey was too small and too slow to play in the NFL. Yea right. Give me the guys with heart all day long!!
what type of offense will the team run?  
Gross Blau Oberst : 11/15/2017 11:37 am : link
Answer that before selecting a QB. QB talent must be tailored to offensive scheme.

If the future Giants will convert to a spread offense and RPO play calling, then a mobile athletic QB fits.

If the Giants stay any version of a WCO, emphasizing a passing offense, then a passing QB who can see around and over Linemen for passing lanes is needed.

Pick the offense, then pick the QB.
Mayfield is 6 ft 1 Today...  
Jim in Tampa : 11/15/2017 11:53 am : link
But I wonder how tall he'll be at the combine ;>)
RE: Say, Baker is my choice too.  
barens : 11/15/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13692832 Giant John said:
Quote:
I have not watched anyone that matches his talent, heart and desire to win. The kid is just a rare combination of what It takes to be that special player. The others have not impressed me close to the same level. Go get him Giants. You won't be sorry.


Just so we are clear, Rosen did anchor one of the biggest comebacks in college football history against a team that was much better than UCLA.

And Darnold has shown plenty of heart in the two years he’s been USC’s qb. You can’t count him out if any game either.

I think that every year, people are always looking for that perfect qb prospect, and that rarely if ever really presents itself like that. There are always ways to knock these guys down a peg or two. Darnold and Rosen, these guys are only juniors, I can only think that in five years, both of these guys are going to be franchise qb’s for some lucky NFL teams.
Darnold is still the best of the bunch and the closest facsimile  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/15/2017 12:21 pm : link
of successful current NFL QBs (experience aside). He made some throws in the Colorado game this past Saturday that are just incredible from the far hashmark to the opposite sideline. It seems to me some people have written off Darnold based on his play earlier this season and missed how well he's played the past 3 weeks. I still think Darnold should go back to school, but he's easily the QB I would take first out of this bunch.
RE: Mayfield is 6 ft 1 Today...  
nyballa0891 : 11/15/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13692959 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
But I wonder how tall he'll be at the combine ;>)


Probably barely 6ft if that
scout's comments on Josh Allen, according to SI...  
Mike in St. Louis : 11/15/2017 12:29 pm : link
"SI's Albert Breer spoke with one NFL scout who described Wyoming redshirt junior QB Josh Allen by saying "he’s tall, athletic and has a huge arm, and everyone makes excuses for him."

The skill position players surround Allen last year made it to the NFL, including a receiver, tight end and running back. Both his head coach Craig Bohl and the anonymous scout brought this up, yet Allen completed 56-percent of his passes last season. In fact, his completion percentage has not changed this year. "Here’s what you get—coaches say, ‘I can fix that guy," the scout said of position coaches who like Allen. They bank on their ability, but accuracy has been a difficult trait to improve."

Source: SI.com

I'm still not sold on any QB for us tat high...give Webb a shot and draft Barkley (assuming he is available)...
I'm probably in the minority here  
RobCarpenter : 11/15/2017 12:35 pm : link
And I enjoy watching Mayfield, but somehow he strikes me as a Manziel type but with more talent. Is he a head case?

I'm also not sure how his college game will translate to the NFL.
My personal opinion is that come draft time, after the combine and all  
PatersonPlank : 11/15/2017 12:37 pm : link
is said and done, you'll see most of these QB's drop. I would bet that we can get one or more of these guys in the 2nd round, maybe even 3rd. Everyone rushed to annoint this class and now I just read excuses for why they aren't producing. I have watched everyone of these guys, some multiple times, and I don't see a top 10 guy here yet.
RE: RE: RE: Allen is awful  
Tom in NY : 11/15/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.



Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?



This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.


I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.

What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).

He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.
RE: I'm probably in the minority here  
barens : 11/15/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13693017 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
And I enjoy watching Mayfield, but somehow he strikes me as a Manziel type but with more talent. Is he a head case?

I'm also not sure how his college game will translate to the NFL.


Actually less talented than Manziel, but he may have an inch or two on Manziel, and he's not a head case. He's a hard worker, and that shouldn't be lost in translation.
Sy  
JFIB : 11/15/2017 12:51 pm : link
I agree 100% with you and said the same thing the other day in the Mayfield post. I want him too and would be stoked if we got him in the 1st.
JFIB  
Marty866b : 11/15/2017 12:58 pm : link
You want Mayfield with a top 3 pick? Glad you're not picking.
He’s got a live arm  
Powerclean765 : 11/15/2017 12:59 pm : link
Saw him make a throw 65 yards without really stepping into it

Check it out at the :30 mark

Mayfield bomb vs. Texas - ( New Window )
Nice throw there by Mayfield  
Marty866b : 11/15/2017 1:10 pm : link
I'd like to see some throws under duress. I've seen great throws by both Rosen and Darnold under great pressure and that is what is normally seen in the NFL.
It's absolutely incredible  
BigBlueShock : 11/15/2017 1:18 pm : link
That the fact that Mayfield is playing against Big 12 defenses continues to get COMPLETELY ignored by his fans. Watch the games. His receivers are open by 5-10 yards on almost every play. The history of recent Big 12 QBs is comical. In the Big 12 they are basically playing a video game. Why is this never taken into consideration? How many Big 12 QBs need to fail miserably before it becomes a concern? Hell, I'd look great playing in that conference.
Shit  
idiotsavant : 11/15/2017 2:01 pm : link
Find QBs that thrived on poor teams with weak lines vs decent opponents.

In 2019 tho-
baker mayfield question for Sy  
snickers : 11/15/2017 2:27 pm : link
Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you.
If the Giants do take Darnold  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 2:50 pm : link
I really hope that they hang onto Eli as Darnold would benefit greatly from sitting and learning from Eli for a year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Allen is awful  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13693027 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.



Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?



This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.



I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.

What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).

He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.


Nobody seems to make these excuses for Lamar Jackson, who's offensive line is terrible and has receivers that can't catch.

Yet he's putting up better numbers and improving his completion percentage against better competition.
RE: It's absolutely incredible  
PatersonPlank : 11/15/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13693075 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
That the fact that Mayfield is playing against Big 12 defenses continues to get COMPLETELY ignored by his fans. Watch the games. His receivers are open by 5-10 yards on almost every play. The history of recent Big 12 QBs is comical. In the Big 12 they are basically playing a video game. Why is this never taken into consideration? How many Big 12 QBs need to fail miserably before it becomes a concern? Hell, I'd look great playing in that conference.


+1. I watch a lot of Big 12 games. Show me a QB there who isnt lighting it up. Texas has a freshmen who is putting uo big numbets, lets draft him.
Thanks Sy  
mrvax : 11/15/2017 3:36 pm : link
Keep up the good work.
I want the one who is best at reading defenses...  
Milton : 11/15/2017 3:49 pm : link
...and processing what he sees at high speed.
RE: Mayfield  
djm : 11/15/2017 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13692726 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.


I might be nitpicking but Allen has nothing in common with Marino. His release isn't even close to Marino's release. Wrist? No.
RE: baker mayfield question for Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13693151 snickers said:
Quote:
Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you.


I wasn't high on the Webb pick...I didn't and still do not like him as a starting QB in the NFL. I think his work ethic and passion for the game are top notch. He is a film but, workaholic type. But I don't think that means he is the heir apparent to Eli.

Davis is a career backup in my eyes
the trade down stuff  
bluepepper : 11/15/2017 4:15 pm : link
drives me nuts. If you think this guy is a franchise QB you take him with your first pick. You don't trade down and keep your fingers and toes crossed that the rest of the league passes on him. And if you don't think he's a franchise QB then he's not worth even the later first round pick that you got in the trade.
RE: RE: baker mayfield question for Sy  
barens : 11/15/2017 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13693270 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13693151 snickers said:


Quote:


Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you.



I wasn't high on the Webb pick...I didn't and still do not like him as a starting QB in the NFL. I think his work ethic and passion for the game are top notch. He is a film but, workaholic type. But I don't think that means he is the heir apparent to Eli.

Davis is a career backup in my eyes


Couldn't agree more.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Allen is awful  
GoDeep13 : 11/15/2017 6:23 pm : link
In comment 13693207 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13693027 Tom in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.



Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?



This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.



I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.

What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).

He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.



Nobody seems to make these excuses for Lamar Jackson, who's offensive line is terrible and has receivers that can't catch.

Yet he's putting up better numbers and improving his completion percentage against better competition.
DING DING DING!!! Finally someone says it. Now I love Josh Allen and think he’s the most Giants likely pick. But. I REALLY think we should be looking at Lamar Jackson more. People always wann day “He’s a run first QB” but he has SO MUCH potential as a passer and you’ve seen the growth each season. I honestly feel that he is going to be a BIGGER revelation at the QB position than Vick was. He only runs so often now at Louisville because his legs are probably the next best offensive play that Louisville can call besides him throwing.
RE: Lamar Jackson  
Dan in the Springs : 11/15/2017 6:40 pm : link
can't wait to read the scouting reports on this guy. He's going to get knocked for the style of offense played. I think a smart team will pick him up and he will be a star. Having said that, I don't know if his frame will hold up to the pounding he might get. That would be my worry anyway.

Either way, he would be an electric player for a few years anyway.

With his speed one has to wonder if he could move to WR as well if the QB thing doesn't work out. He'd seem to be a threat there as he has all the measurables.
thanks Sy  
snickers : 11/15/2017 6:52 pm : link
Appreciate your input
I'll always remember  
santacruzom : 11/15/2017 7:04 pm : link
Baker Mayfield as the guy Dep once said should have been benched in the middle of the first quarter against Ohio State early in 2016.
RE: RE: Lamar Jackson  
RDJR : 11/15/2017 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13693411 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
can't wait to read the scouting reports on this guy. He's going to get knocked for the style of offense played. I think a smart team will pick him up and he will be a star. Having said that, I don't know if his frame will hold up to the pounding he might get. That would be my worry anyway.

Either way, he would be an electric player for a few years anyway.

With his speed one has to wonder if he could move to WR as well if the QB thing doesn't work out. He'd seem to be a threat there as he has all the measurables.


I’ve been a Jackson guy for over a year. Would love him in blue. He will be the best of the lot. Just watch.
Jackson  
Go Terps : 11/15/2017 11:42 pm : link
To me, Jackson looks like the best player of the bunch. But that's only going to matter if the team that drafts him runs an offense that features his mobility. That will take some courage, and the foresight to back him up with quarterbacks that are also mobile.
Allen is playing with a high school team...  
bw in dc : 11/16/2017 12:25 am : link
Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...

Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
RE: Allen is playing with a high school team...  
Carson53 : 11/16/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13693632 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...

Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
.


There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!
I'd pass on Jackson because of what Terps said  
Greg from LI : 11/16/2017 10:15 am : link
You'd need to mold the offense to his skills, and I don't think many NFL coaches are willing to do that.
I like all 3  
Metnut : 11/16/2017 10:23 am : link
of the big QB prospects, Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen. I think I'd prefer Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen in that order, but still a lot of time to go until draft.

If we take a QB in the top 5, I hope that we sit the QB behind Eli for one more year. Even if we need to plan after Eli, he deserves the opportunity to get one more chance to end things here on a better note than this disaster of a season. To boot, it wouldn't hurt a young QB to take a red-shirt year behind Eli.
Baker Mayfield is going to be a fan favorite  
Peppers : 11/16/2017 10:24 am : link
He has all the moxy. He’s got the gutsy performances. For us couch scouts, he’ll be the guy. Hell he’s the guy I want and I was saying that last year. Then he stuck the flag and I knew right then he was the guy this team needs.

Now the real scouts, they throw everything else into the equation. And if both Rosen and Darnold declare, Mayfield will be the 3rd Qb taken.. But as often times they do, the scouts and NFL guys will over think this one. Mayfield is Russell Wilson 2.0.

RE: I'd pass on Jackson because of what Terps said  
Go Terps : 11/16/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13693841 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You'd need to mold the offense to his skills, and I don't think many NFL coaches are willing to do that.


It's too bad, because I think he could be great. If you just drafted the guy with the mindset of using him to his full ability for the length of his rookie deal, you'd really have something.

It's the need to be able to say you have the guy for the next 10 years that leads to problems.
Mayfield at 6'1"  
samditis : 11/16/2017 10:52 am : link
Good thing 6'1" isn't disqualifying...especially since Russell Wilson, whom this kid reminds me of, is only 5'11"
How about Luke Falk in the 2nd or 3rd  
ghost718 : 11/16/2017 11:19 am : link
Barkley in the 1st
Would the Giants even take a guy like Mayfield?  
BH28 : 11/16/2017 11:43 am : link
I remember from the Finding Giants show, that there are certain measurables they look at at certain positions (like a bigger Apple over Hargreaves). Maybe that changes when they clean house, but I can't imagine they would take a guy like Mayfield over bigger guys like Rosen and Darnold even if Mayfield is the 'correct' pick.
I agree about liking Mayfield more than the big 3 or 4  
Matt M. : 11/16/2017 11:47 am : link
But, I'm not sure I would draft him in the top 5. I still like trading down.
RE: RE: Allen is playing with a high school team...  
GiantGrit : 11/16/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13693816 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 13693632 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...

Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....

.


There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!


Mayfield does NOT lack arm strength. It’s a misconception based off his size. He makes every throw including across the field and can do it off balanced. Best arm in this class? No. You say he can’t run around like he does now b/c he isn’t fast - you don’t need a burner, you need someone to buy time in today’s NFL. Mayfield buys time like Russell Wilson. Always has his eyes downfield.
This Mayfield mania is fascinating...  
bw in dc : 11/16/2017 12:03 pm : link
Sure, he has the college game figured out. But through my prism, he has bust written all over him. Forget the Big 12 factor - that conference is a joke, so take he numbers down by at least 30% - the guy has really poor footwork, gets nervous feet in the pocket, plays in an offense built mostly around one read, and has some off field character concerns. That's not first round talent. Maybe 3rd or 4th round. And that's not bad if he gets in the right system under the right coaching to coach and re-program him.

I could see a Jeff Garcia type down he road, which could be fine. But no way Brees or Russell.
RE: RE: RE: Allen is playing with a high school team...  
Carson53 : 11/16/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13693945 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 13693816 Carson53 said:


Quote:


In comment 13693632 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...

Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....

.


There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!



Mayfield does NOT lack arm strength. It’s a misconception based off his size. He makes every throw including across the field and can do it off balanced. Best arm in this class? No. You say he can’t run around like he does now b/c he isn’t fast - you don’t need a burner, you need someone to buy time in today’s NFL. Mayfield buys time like Russell Wilson. Always has his eyes downfield.
.

He's not going to run around like Wilson at the next level,
Wilson has the intangibles, and a high football IQ.
That's one of the reasons he CAN move around like he does.
He had them in college as well.
Nope, don't see it and he does lack arm strength IMO.
The BIG 12 conference is not exactly known for its defense as well...

My pecking order would be Allen, Darnold, then Rosen
on the QB's mentioned.
Big 12 QBs are as worthless as  
Jimmy Googs : 11/16/2017 3:50 pm : link
Big 12 Defenses...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Allen is playing with a high school team...  
bw in dc : 11/16/2017 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13693962 Carson53 said:
Quote:


He's not going to run around like Wilson at the next level,
Wilson has the intangibles, and a high football IQ.
That's one of the reasons he CAN move around like he does.
He had them in college as well.
Nope, don't see it and he does lack arm strength IMO.
The BIG 12 conference is not exactly known for its defense as well...

My pecking order would be Allen, Darnold, then Rosen
on the QB's mentioned.


I'm not sure what the order is, but I think you have the right three - assuming they all come out. Allen is the most physically gifted, Darnell looks like a guy, and this is important, who will be willing to hand tough in the pocket and make throws (and that is critical), and Rosen looks like the most interesting mix of many parts but does not do anything spectacular...yet.

On Mayfield and Big 12 defenses  
Emil : 11/16/2017 10:26 pm : link
What are we to make of his performance against Ohio State where he completed 77% of his passes threw for 356 yds and 3 tds.
RE: On Mayfield and Big 12 defenses  
bw in dc : 11/16/2017 11:39 pm : link
In comment 13694519 Emil said:
Quote:
What are we to make of his performance against Ohio State where he completed 77% of his passes threw for 356 yds and 3 tds.


I think Oklahoma caught Ohio State at the right time - early. The Buckeyes secondary is young and basically all new from last year, especially when they had Lattimore and Conley taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. I’m not sure if that would happen again...
RE: RE: On Mayfield and Big 12 defenses  
Emil : 11/17/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13694550 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13694519 Emil said:


Quote:


What are we to make of his performance against Ohio State where he completed 77% of his passes threw for 356 yds and 3 tds.



I think Oklahoma caught Ohio State at the right time - early. The Buckeyes secondary is young and basically all new from last year, especially when they had Lattimore and Conley taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. I’m not sure if that would happen again...


Well, I hope Oklahoma makes it into the playoff, cause I want to see Mayfield against top defenses.
RE: RE: I'd pass on Jackson because of what Terps said  
Dan in the Springs : 11/17/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13693865 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13693841 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


You'd need to mold the offense to his skills, and I don't think many NFL coaches are willing to do that.



It's too bad, because I think he could be great. If you just drafted the guy with the mindset of using him to his full ability for the length of his rookie deal, you'd really have something.

It's the need to be able to say you have the guy for the next 10 years that leads to problems.


Couldn't agree more with Go Terps. Of course it's nice to get a guy who can play for a long time, but the strategy of drafting talent early who won't be able to play for a long time kind of defeats the advantages given to teams who draft well. By the time your player is ready to make an impact he's only a year or two away from a big payday. After that you're basically paying him full FA dollars or dealing with cap issues like Cousins is giving the Redskins.

On the other hand, if you do want a long-term solution at QB you're not going to find any good ones in FA. That's the problem.

So ideally you build your system like Reid has in KC, one that may not be a "pro-style" offense but where a player can do very well. Like Dallas modified its offense to take advantage of its running game and what Dak could manage as a rookie.

Here's what McAdoo said about the KC offense when asked about Alex Smith's unbelievably low INT rate and success this year:

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McAdoo: No. I think they’re in a system where they essentially have running backs playing wide receiver. So they get them the ball in a variety of different ways. They don’t necessarily run the typical pro-style passing game. They’re west coast-based, but they have other ways to get their playmakers the ball. They’re creative in what they do that way. So he may not have to air it out as much as a typical quarterback in this league has to do because of the system they play. That doesn’t mean they don’t throw it downfield or don’t attack outside the numbers, but they do a lot of things where he throws the ball to get the ball out quickly and into their playmakers' hands and I think that’s a part of it. He’s a good decision maker when they have to throw on third down, second and long. But in first and second down in normal down and distance, they do things in close proximity quite a bit.”


Advantages always go to coaches who find undervalued playmakers - like BB did with TE's and shorter receivers, or like KC has done with taking guys who aren't the typical size.

It's why the one retread coach I'm interested in is Brad Childress. I think he might be capable of doing similar things here after all his years of working with Reid and the success he had in Minny.
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