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I'll tell you what (NFL Draft - QB)

Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 8:36 am
I've put more attention on the QBs this year than ever before...partially because of my role with Ourlads being expanded, but also with NYG's 2018 Draft intentions.

The names we all thought would make this QB class elite (Allen-Darnold-Rosen-Jackson) have been underwhelming. I've seen each of them 5+ times this year, and Rosen is the only one I would take in the top 5 overall. That can change...a lot of work still needs to be done and they still have a few games left.

But the name I can't get away from is Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma. At 6'1, he is under the desired height most look for in an elite QB prospect. He plays in a spread attack that is somewhat simple read wise (not as simple as some). He is doing things that he simply won't get away with in the NFL.

That said, he may end up being my top graded QB. His physical shortcomings don't impact his game. He can stand tall in the pocket, does a great job of seeing and throwing through traffic. Unreal release that can be repeated time after time in any situation. Very good accuracy to all three levels. The mobility is used to pass, not to run. Keeps his eyes downfield and will always look to throw, the running is a third or fourth option. And I think this kid is one of the toughest SOBs I had ever scouted at the position. Loves the game, the passion oozes out of him. A gamer that will rise to the occasion, finds ways to get it done.

I am surprised to be saying this...but I may want him as the next NYG quarterback.
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If he checks all the boxes  
The_Boss : 11/15/2017 8:40 am : link
and the (new) regime agrees with you aftr their evaluation, I'd be fine. My preference is likely going to be Darnold (who has played better as of late) if he declares, then Rosen tho.
RE: If he checks all the boxes  
The_Boss : 11/15/2017 8:41 am : link
In comment 13692708 The_Boss said:
Quote:
and the (new) regime agrees with you aftr their evaluation, I'd be fine. My preference is likely going to be Darnold (who has played better as of late) if he declares, then Rosen tho.


** after **
'His physical shortcomings don't impact his game.'  
Torrag : 11/15/2017 8:43 am : link
Maybe at the collee level they don't but they could in the NFL.

Dranold is 20 years old and will be the best pro QB in this class. If we're drafting Eli's replacement(and don't waste our time with talk of passing on these guys for Webb, because you don't get this opportunity often)...then Darnold is the guy. He may not be the best player this season but he's the best pro prospect.
rebuilding lines and backers and etc  
idiotsavant : 11/15/2017 8:45 am : link
can be such a fun project if done right, with strong enough emphasis.

Draft a QB in 2019, see what Webb has, run out mannings contract.
I couldn't agree more.  
BLUATHRT : 11/15/2017 8:46 am : link
Mayfield has the "it" factor that you don't really see with the other QB's in this draft. I think when you combine that with the skills that he displays, teams would be foolish to overlook him because of height ideals. Rosen has great talent but has never really carried his team. Darnold is way too inconsistent for my taste. I think Mayfield has some learning to do in terms of reads, but he's special.
Didn't Webb beat him out?  
George from PA : 11/15/2017 8:48 am : link
if Mayfield is the best....I would take offers to trade down and see what we have with Webb.

with extra picks:

Fortify OL....I still feel Flowers and Fluker would be great on right side

One more stud WR....adding to stable of OBJ, Shepard and Engram

Get an All-Star LB....we must get a Defensive leader.

Get another Corner...to replace DRC.

RE: Didn't Webb beat him out?  
Sean : 11/15/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13692718 George from PA said:
Quote:
if Mayfield is the best....I would take offers to trade down and see what we have with Webb.

with extra picks:

Fortify OL....I still feel Flowers and Fluker would be great on right side

One more stud WR....adding to stable of OBJ, Shepard and Engram

Get an All-Star LB....we must get a Defensive leader.

Get another Corner...to replace DRC.


Why do people love trading down? He has that worked for the Browns?
Mayfield  
AcidTest : 11/15/2017 8:54 am : link
is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.
Webb and Mayfield  
Sammo85 : 11/15/2017 8:58 am : link
Were both recruited to Texas Tech I believe.

I’ve grown to like Mayfield. My preference is Rosen as I love his arm. But watching Mayfield I see a guy whose arm can play at the NFL level. The key is what kind of offense you build around him. Him and Eli are two totally different QBs in every way possible.

My feeling is as long as we are in the Top 3 we are taking a QB.
Interested to see you on board  
Kyle in NY : 11/15/2017 9:00 am : link
I want this kid as my QB as well. I'm a big fan
This is a key for me  
Kyle in NY : 11/15/2017 9:03 am : link
Quote:
And I think this kid is one of the toughest SOBs I had ever scouted at the position. Loves the game, the passion oozes out of him. A gamer that will rise to the occasion, finds ways to get it done.


Love this about him. Not sure you're getting this with some of the other prospects. Especially Rosen, as talented as he may be.

My question now is, how far can we trade down and still be able to get Baker?
He's taller than Wilson and Brees  
njm : 11/15/2017 9:06 am : link
6'1" may not be ideal but it's not disqualifying. We'll have to see how things progress for the rest of the season, and particularly where he lines up to be picked in the draft.

The only 2 teams with 2 selections in the 1st rd. at this point are Cleveland and Buffalo. Cleveland will not have to trade up. It will be interesting to see where Buffalo's picks end up.
RE: Mayfield  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 9:09 am : link
In comment 13692726 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.


Josh Allen has all those things but so did Jamarcus Russell. Allen just isn't a good QB
How do you feel about him coming from a Spread?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/15/2017 9:11 am : link
I feel like its always very tough to figure out if a player can learn an NFL offense coming from a Spread attack. The reads are usual 1 look and progressions are non existent. What's your take on it Sy'?
This is what I don’t get  
WillVAB : 11/15/2017 9:15 am : link
You have reservations about all of the QBs, but then you want the Giants to take one anyways. It’s like a guy catching his fiancé cheating before the wedding, gets married anyways, then wonders why he’s divorced in 5 years. The Giants can do other things besides forcing a QB pick, and it’s not like this is the last year the QB position exists in college.

Regarding Mayfield, there’s a lot to like. But I also feel like he gets away with things at the college level that won’t fly in the NFL. Makes me wonder if his game would translate to the NFL level.
I don't see it  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 9:16 am : link
Not in the top 3. I don't see the arm strength someone like Brees has.
Sy  
Andy in Boston : 11/15/2017 9:20 am : link
who would you compare him to now in the NFL?
So at 6'1"  
lugnut : 11/15/2017 9:21 am : link
He's right in between Brees and Favre. And 2"-3" taller than Wilson. Yes, absolutely, his height should disqualify him.

If the Giants have size requirements then they should throw 'em out the window. Lotta people (and maybe Giants FO?) said Aaron Donald was too small to make it in the NFL, so...At least, some guys have other things, especially intangibles, that make up for size, and for all the reasons stated by Sy, Mayfield looks to be the case, too.
Sy  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 9:21 am : link
Mayfield has been my favorite QB in the draft for some time. I love his passion, leadership, and accuracy. I really hope that he is our 1st round pick. If they can trade down and get him that would be even better. I am concerned that the Giants will pass due to his height and go for a guy like Allen instead.
just watched some highlights.....  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:21 am : link
looks impressive. Also looks like a "Phil Simms" type......meaning he looks to have a ton of passion to his game.

Size would concern me......

Whatever QB they take, if they take one, coaching/system/environment have a lot to do with the success of the player.

Sy  
lugnut : 11/15/2017 9:23 am : link
What's your take on Mason Rudolph? He never seems to be discussed here. Size certainly isn't the issue.
RE: RE: Mayfield  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13692743 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13692726 AcidTest said:


Quote:


is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level.

But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional.

Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious.

If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.



Josh Allen has all those things but so did Jamarcus Russell. Allen just isn't a good QB


There are a ton of high pick QBs that fail, it's part of the deal.

In Russell's case, I think desire was a big question mark. And that should have come out in the interviews, you'd hope.
Don't mind Baker  
uncledave : 11/15/2017 9:26 am : link
but prefer Josh Allen
. . . .  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 9:28 am : link
Quote:
Mayfield is undersized for the NFL with just average arm strength. He can have issues reading defenses. One big area for improvement for Mayfield is his footwork as he gets happy feet in the pocket. One college scouting director told me that Mayfield's feet are terrible.

In speaking with one NFL general manager, they said they liked Mayfield and had a fourth-round grade on him. Their team always grades quarterbacks hard, and they like how Mayfield has played this year. He could end up being a second-day pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.





Link - ( New Window )
If a guy like Mayfield is the choice....  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:28 am : link
and can be obtained lower in the draft order, that's where trading down and acquiring extra pick(s) can really go a long way.

That's why having a GM who can see the board and project is very important, and why I would definitely let Reese go.
RE: . . . .  
BillKo : 11/15/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13692775 jeff57 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Mayfield is undersized for the NFL with just average arm strength. He can have issues reading defenses. One big area for improvement for Mayfield is his footwork as he gets happy feet in the pocket. One college scouting director told me that Mayfield's feet are terrible.

In speaking with one NFL general manager, they said they liked Mayfield and had a fourth-round grade on him. Their team always grades quarterbacks hard, and they like how Mayfield has played this year. He could end up being a second-day pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.




Link - ( New Window )


Funny, his feet reminded me of no other than Peyton Manning LOL.......

It would be intresting to read the early scouting reports on Wentz and Goff.

I distinctly remember some reports saying those guys, in a normal class, would be 2nd round picks but the need for QBs vaulted them up to a 1st round choice.

That changed over time......but people were saying that.
I am still firmly in the Darnold camp.  
barens : 11/15/2017 9:32 am : link
I think he has all of the tools, and has the best demeanor. Sort of reminds me of Eli in that he just doesn't get fazed.

Mayfield, I don't disagree, I just can't put him ahead of Darnold or Rosen yet until after the college football playoffs, and the NFL combine and such.
I’m more  
tony71 : 11/15/2017 9:36 am : link
Interested in how the top QBs compare to Webb. From my understanding the reason Webb is coming along slower is because he is from a Soread Offense. Are we drafting another kid in the first round only to be at the same situation we are in now ,with having to let the new guy get used to a different offense? I keep hearing how we need to go grab a QB with the first round because we will be top 3.. but I haven’t heard who shows more promise then the one we got in the last Draft. Maybe I’m just not reading the right articles, but I’d really hate to do the typical thing we done in the past where we draft someone new and let the guy go we had only to get whipped on by that same guy later.. Hate to draft someone just because it’s a top spot, when who we have is just as good
Sy  
ajr2456 : 11/15/2017 9:37 am : link
What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?
Sam darnold  
jtgiants : 11/15/2017 9:39 am : link
For my money is going to be a great q.b. if we go the route of quarterback he is hands down the guy I want. This year hasn't been great but history shows that has no bearing on translating to the NFL. Many great qb's last year in college wasn't great. Ill be stunned when its all said and done if he escapes the first pick in the draft let alone top 5
"He is doing things that he simply won't get away with in the NFL."  
David B. : 11/15/2017 9:41 am : link
That's the phrase that worries me. Guys like that typically DON'T stop doing those things once they get to the NFL.

Still in the Rosen camp for now.
I want to know  
Doomster : 11/15/2017 9:46 am : link
if he is wearing lifts....
Mayfield  
RetroJint : 11/15/2017 9:46 am : link
Is my choice, too.
I'd still have concerns due to the lack of defense in the Big XII  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2017 9:46 am : link
.
Like Rosen  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 9:47 am : link
But I'm in the minority in that I really like Jackson. But can't see him a Giants with his style of play.
I don't know I'm just not sold on any of them  
PatersonPlank : 11/15/2017 9:48 am : link
Darnold definitely needs another year, Rosen has had some real clunkers and has some issues, Allen has not been good, and Baker and Rudolph play in a conference that doesn't play D. Lots of QB's from the Big 12 bust, and I would bet more than the average, because of this.

Add this to the fact that Webbs senior stats are likely better than all of these kids, at a Pac-12 school, and I don't see what the rush to the alter is all about. We have lots of other holes to address, and to add another QB project behind Eli instead of a OL starter (for example) doesn't strike me as the right thing to do. If Webb doesn't work out I'm sure there will be more "franchise" QB's in next years draft too (including Darnold).
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13692756 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
who would you compare him to now in the NFL?


I see a blend of Marcus Mariota/Matthew Stafford/Kirk Cousins
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 11/15/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13692783 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?


I would say it is very possible right now...Traditonally guys like him just don't go early.
Sy  
Mike in NY : 11/15/2017 9:58 am : link
If he declares, what are your thoughts on NC State QB Ryan Finley?
RE: RE: Didn't Webb beat him out?  
jvm52106 : 11/15/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13692725 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13692718 George from PA said:


Quote:


if Mayfield is the best....I would take offers to trade down and see what we have with Webb.

with extra picks:

Fortify OL....I still feel Flowers and Fluker would be great on right side

One more stud WR....adding to stable of OBJ, Shepard and Engram

Get an All-Star LB....we must get a Defensive leader.

Get another Corner...to replace DRC.




Why do people love trading down? He has that worked for the Browns?


The Browns are a horrible example.. I would trade down. We need more picks...
Mayfield is the anti-Eli  
Pepe LePugh : 11/15/2017 10:01 am : link
in some ways. Vocal/emotional leadership, mobile..........
Curious to see who the new coach will be and the philosophy  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/15/2017 10:01 am : link
Baker's a gamer and looks like he has the arm talent. I do like the energy he brings. Its like Davis Webb has competed with all of these guys already.

Sy, any thoughts on Trace McSorley from Penn State? He and Mayfield remind me of each other, does he have any pro potential?
RE: RE: Sy  
Capt. Don : 11/15/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13692803 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13692783 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick?



I would say it is very possible right now...Traditonally guys like him just don't go early.


Jesus - If we could get Barkley with our 1st and Mayfield in the 2nd.

Shades of LdT and Brees.
Let the Browns pick him  
JonC : 11/15/2017 10:03 am : link
leave us Darnold and then Rosen.
He could be the next Derek Carr  
Jay on the Island : 11/15/2017 10:05 am : link
Not in terms of style of play but a QB that goes after several others and ends up being the best of the class.
Disagree  
Marty866b : 11/15/2017 10:08 am : link
Darnold and Rosen have more physical ability then Mayfield. Yes,there is Brees and Wilson but qb's who are very successful these days at Mayfield's size are few and far between. Darnold will only be 20 years old when the draft is held and is still fairly inexperienced but has all the physical tools,highly coachable,can get you big plays with his legs,and has the demeanor to play in NY. There is NO CHANCE Mayfield will be selected before Darnold or Rosen.
Say, Baker is my choice too.  
Giant John : 11/15/2017 10:11 am : link
I have not watched anyone that matches his talent, heart and desire to win. The kid is just a rare combination of what It takes to be that special player. The others have not impressed me close to the same level. Go get him Giants. You won't be sorry.
Say = Sy  
Giant John : 11/15/2017 10:12 am : link
Damn auto check...
RE: RE: Didn't Webb beat him out?  
giants#1 : 11/15/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13692725 Sean said:
Quote:



Why do people love trading down? He has that worked for the Browns?


Apples to oranges. Browns don't have a QB. Giants have Eli for 2 more years and potentially Webb beyond that.
Webb beat him out  
jeff57 : 11/15/2017 10:30 am : link
And Mahomes beat out Webb. Therefore, the answer is simple: Trade for Mahomes.
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