I'll tell you what (NFL Draft - QB)

In comment 13692850 jeff57 said:

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And Mahomes beat out Webb. Therefore, the answer is simple: Trade for Mahomes.

Hire John Dorsey as GM!

If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.

great/elite QBs in the NFL work their butt off and go the extra mile to hone their craft. it's what separates the football junkies like peyton manning or Andrew luck from the party animal or hothead busts like ryan leaf or johnny manziel.

Sy - do you have any insight into the work ethic/hunger/intensity for the game that these prospects possess, either as a positive or red flag?

In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said:

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If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year.

Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?

Have you scouted Drew Locke from Missouri?

In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

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In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year. Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching?

This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.

In comment 13692819 Capt. Don said:

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In comment 13692803 Sy'56 said: Quote: In comment 13692783 ajr2456 said: Quote: What are the chances we could grab Mayfield with our second pick? I would say it is very possible right now...Traditonally guys like him just don't go early. Jesus - If we could get Barkley with our 1st and Mayfield in the 2nd. Shades of LdT and Brees.

I'd lean more towards Fitzpatrick or James, Mayfield in the 2nd then a guy like Sony Michel later. I know the draft simulators are eh, but this would be a haul.


Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 3: Minkah Fitzpatrick, CB/CB, Alabama (A)
Round 2 Pick 3: Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma (C+)
Round 3 Pick 3: Frank Ragnow, C/OG, Arkansas (A-)
Round 4 Pick 3: Anthony Miller, WR, Memphis (A+)
Round 5 Pick 3: Tyrone Crowder, OG, Clemson (B)
Round 6 Pick 3: Sony Michel, RB, Georgia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 3: Iman Marshall, CB, Southern California (A+)

I would either favor the Giants taking Quentin Nelson or Barkley with their first pick and then trading up into the end of round 1 to get Mayfield. Or they could trade down a couple of times and accumulate several picks and take Mayfield. I really hope that Reese is gone because they need a new GM who will be more flexible in the draft. It blows my mind that Reese has never traded down in the draft and I doubt that he would start now.

In comment 13692903 Jay on the Island said:

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I would either favor the Giants taking Quentin Nelson or Barkley with their first pick and then trading up into the end of round 1 to get Mayfield. Or they could trade down a couple of times and accumulate several picks and take Mayfield. I really hope that Reese is gone because they need a new GM who will be more flexible in the draft. It blows my mind that Reese has never traded down in the draft and I doubt that he would start now.

I like the first option over trading down

If I'm picking a corner with the third overall pick he better be future hall of famer. Don't see it with Fitzpatrick. We better pick a quarterback.

Morning guys: Really interesting thread Dave. I have actually been wondering the same thing myself in recent weeks. What I am hearing from my sources around the league is that if Mayfield was 6-4 he'd be the top prospect overall hands down this year. In fact, I have had more than one person tell me that if Mayfield were 6-4 he'd be the best prospect since Andrew Luck hands down. And if it ends up that he's the guy the Giants like - and they are one of 4 teams that had personnel people at the OU-TCU game last week - then you take and don't screw around with trade downs because if you like him that much other teams are going to also.

Here's the frustrating reality of life in the NFL and the draft. Of the top 5-6 QB prospects this year, the odds are that a couple turn out to be legit franchise passers, two more turn out to be journeyman types and two will be pretty much busts. And the reality is that in the end no one - not me, not Dave Sy, not Mel Kiper, not Mike Mayock, not Bill Belichek, not Ron Wolf and certainly not anyone in the peanut gallery howling at the moon - can predict with any more accuracy than a monkey throwing darts at a dart board which two will end up being the stars, which two will be the journeyman and which two will be the busts. But that ain't gonna stop anybody 2-3 years down the road from calling the GMs that took the stars geniuses and those that took the busts idiots. (I once wrote Jerry Reese a note and said that the Giants big problem with their drafts is that they insist on making their picks in April. They'd do so much better if they waited until October or later even!)

I am also assuming that everyone knows that USC plays UCLA on Saturday evening at 8 PM on ABC so we'll get a chance to watch them go head-to-head. Also a little bonus coverage to consider. later htis evening (7 PM ET on ESPN2) check out Western Michigan LT Chukes Okorafor (#77, 6-6, 330) one of the better second-tier OL prospects in this year's draft. One of the fascinating aspects of this year's draft with the Giants almost assuredly set to take a QB in Rd1 is what they do in Rd2 which will have some really good prospects at a number of positions.

In comment 13692908 Marty866b said:

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If I'm picking a corner with the third overall pick he better be future hall of famer. Don't see it with Fitzpatrick. We better pick a quarterback.

I think he would have a Ramsey type impact on the defense

If I had my choice of QB's it would be Mayfield. As for the 2nd round pick I think they must use it to add an OL. Whether that be a guard, center, or OT it doesn't matter. The only sure thing for the offensive line next year is that Flowers will be starting at either LT or RT. Jones and Wheeler will be back in some capacity. I assume Jones will be the starting center. It is unfortunate that Jessamen Dunker is out for the season because it would have been beneficial to be on the roster right now gaining some experience.

I've been clamoring for him in the second/third round and for the giants to go BPA in the 1st. Guys his size don't go first round, do you really think that will change this year?

What's the size of these QB's hearts. From what I've seen of Mayfield he's a winner, a natural born leader and gets the job done.

Let's face it Phil McConkey was too small and too slow to play in the NFL. Yea right. Give me the guys with heart all day long!!

Answer that before selecting a QB. QB talent must be tailored to offensive scheme.

If the future Giants will convert to a spread offense and RPO play calling, then a mobile athletic QB fits.

If the Giants stay any version of a WCO, emphasizing a passing offense, then a passing QB who can see around and over Linemen for passing lanes is needed.

Pick the offense, then pick the QB.

But I wonder how tall he'll be at the combine ;>)

In comment 13692832 Giant John said:

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I have not watched anyone that matches his talent, heart and desire to win. The kid is just a rare combination of what It takes to be that special player. The others have not impressed me close to the same level. Go get him Giants. You won't be sorry.

Just so we are clear, Rosen did anchor one of the biggest comebacks in college football history against a team that was much better than UCLA.

And Darnold has shown plenty of heart in the two years he’s been USC’s qb. You can’t count him out if any game either.

I think that every year, people are always looking for that perfect qb prospect, and that rarely if ever really presents itself like that. There are always ways to knock these guys down a peg or two. Darnold and Rosen, these guys are only juniors, I can only think that in five years, both of these guys are going to be franchise qb’s for some lucky NFL teams.

of successful current NFL QBs (experience aside). He made some throws in the Colorado game this past Saturday that are just incredible from the far hashmark to the opposite sideline. It seems to me some people have written off Darnold based on his play earlier this season and missed how well he's played the past 3 weeks. I still think Darnold should go back to school, but he's easily the QB I would take first out of this bunch.

In comment 13692959 Jim in Tampa said:

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But I wonder how tall he'll be at the combine ;>)

Probably barely 6ft if that

"SI's Albert Breer spoke with one NFL scout who described Wyoming redshirt junior QB Josh Allen by saying "he’s tall, athletic and has a huge arm, and everyone makes excuses for him."

The skill position players surround Allen last year made it to the NFL, including a receiver, tight end and running back. Both his head coach Craig Bohl and the anonymous scout brought this up, yet Allen completed 56-percent of his passes last season. In fact, his completion percentage has not changed this year. "Here’s what you get—coaches say, ‘I can fix that guy," the scout said of position coaches who like Allen. They bank on their ability, but accuracy has been a difficult trait to improve."

Source: SI.com

I'm still not sold on any QB for us tat high...give Webb a shot and draft Barkley (assuming he is available)...

And I enjoy watching Mayfield, but somehow he strikes me as a Manziel type but with more talent. Is he a head case?

I'm also not sure how his college game will translate to the NFL.

is said and done, you'll see most of these QB's drop. I would bet that we can get one or more of these guys in the 2nd round, maybe even 3rd. Everyone rushed to annoint this class and now I just read excuses for why they aren't producing. I have watched everyone of these guys, some multiple times, and I don't see a top 10 guy here yet.

In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said:

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In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said: Quote: In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year. Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching? This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL.

I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli.

What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection).

He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.

In comment 13693017 RobCarpenter said:

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And I enjoy watching Mayfield, but somehow he strikes me as a Manziel type but with more talent. Is he a head case? I'm also not sure how his college game will translate to the NFL.

Actually less talented than Manziel, but he may have an inch or two on Manziel, and he's not a head case. He's a hard worker, and that shouldn't be lost in translation.

I agree 100% with you and said the same thing the other day in the Mayfield post. I want him too and would be stoked if we got him in the 1st.

You want Mayfield with a top 3 pick? Glad you're not picking.

Saw him make a throw 65 yards without really stepping into it

Check it out at the :30 mark

Mayfield bomb vs. Texas - ( New Window )

I'd like to see some throws under duress. I've seen great throws by both Rosen and Darnold under great pressure and that is what is normally seen in the NFL.

That the fact that Mayfield is playing against Big 12 defenses continues to get COMPLETELY ignored by his fans. Watch the games. His receivers are open by 5-10 yards on almost every play. The history of recent Big 12 QBs is comical. In the Big 12 they are basically playing a video game. Why is this never taken into consideration? How many Big 12 QBs need to fail miserably before it becomes a concern? Hell, I'd look great playing in that conference.

Find QBs that thrived on poor teams with weak lines vs decent opponents.

In 2019 tho-

Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you.

I really hope that they hang onto Eli as Darnold would benefit greatly from sitting and learning from Eli for a year.

In comment 13693027 Tom in NY said:

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In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said: Quote: In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said: Quote: In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year. Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching? This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL. I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli. What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection). He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB.

Nobody seems to make these excuses for Lamar Jackson, who's offensive line is terrible and has receivers that can't catch.

Yet he's putting up better numbers and improving his completion percentage against better competition.

In comment 13693075 BigBlueShock said:

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That the fact that Mayfield is playing against Big 12 defenses continues to get COMPLETELY ignored by his fans. Watch the games. His receivers are open by 5-10 yards on almost every play. The history of recent Big 12 QBs is comical. In the Big 12 they are basically playing a video game. Why is this never taken into consideration? How many Big 12 QBs need to fail miserably before it becomes a concern? Hell, I'd look great playing in that conference.

+1. I watch a lot of Big 12 games. Show me a QB there who isnt lighting it up. Texas has a freshmen who is putting uo big numbets, lets draft him.

Keep up the good work.

...and processing what he sees at high speed.

In comment 13692726 AcidTest said:

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is electric. He's mobile, passionate, and has more than enough arm strength to make all the throws at the NFL level. But I'd be stunned if the Giants used a top five pick on Mayfield, even with a regime change. The Giants have size requirements for positions, and 6'1" is far below what they want in a QB. Mayfield also plays in a conference where defense is definitely optional. Josh Allen has the highest upside of any QB in the draft. His arm strength is phenomenal, he flicks the ball with his wrist like Marino, and he's incredible mobile. He's also much bigger than any other QB. He lost most of his offensive production from last year. My understanding is that his shoulder injury isn't serious. If Darnold stays in school, someone will take Rosen before the Giants. That leaves Allen, Mayfield, and Jackson. Allen is the only QB the Giants would consider IMO. I'm not sure if I would take Mayfield, but I don't think the Giants will.

I might be nitpicking but Allen has nothing in common with Marino. His release isn't even close to Marino's release. Wrist? No.

In comment 13693151 snickers said:

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Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you.

I wasn't high on the Webb pick...I didn't and still do not like him as a starting QB in the NFL. I think his work ethic and passion for the game are top notch. He is a film but, workaholic type. But I don't think that means he is the heir apparent to Eli.

Davis is a career backup in my eyes

drives me nuts. If you think this guy is a franchise QB you take him with your first pick. You don't trade down and keep your fingers and toes crossed that the rest of the league passes on him. And if you don't think he's a franchise QB then he's not worth even the later first round pick that you got in the trade.

In comment 13693270 Sy'56 said:

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In comment 13693151 snickers said: Quote: Sy, is my memory correct that you thought that Webb was inferior to most of the top qbs people are pushing this year? Are we to assume that you believe Mayfield to be better than Webb? How much does work ethic count when you talk up a particular player? The "it" factor, does Webb possess this? Thank you. I wasn't high on the Webb pick...I didn't and still do not like him as a starting QB in the NFL. I think his work ethic and passion for the game are top notch. He is a film but, workaholic type. But I don't think that means he is the heir apparent to Eli. Davis is a career backup in my eyes

Couldn't agree more.

In comment 13693207 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 13693027 Tom in NY said: Quote: In comment 13692883 PatersonPlank said: Quote: In comment 13692874 BigBlueDownTheShore said: Quote: In comment 13692860 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: If you don't believe me, watch some Wyoming games from this year or last year. Scouts think he has great talent, but the talent around him stinks. How much Wyoming football have you been watching? This is why the combines are so important, and why its way too early to make any decisions. The converse is a place like USC. They get great talent and can make an average QB look really good, like Leinert and Sanchez. Its also why a place like the Big-12 can make QB's look better than they are because no defense is played. Texas Tech, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia, Ok, and OK St, all put up thousands of points but very few QB's have cut it in the NFL. I've watched 4 Wyoming games this year (vs.Iowa, Colorado State, Boise State, & Air Force). 1st thing to note is that his Oline is AWFUL. Allen gets hit on just about every other throw (that is not an exaggeration). As noted by other, Allen's arm strength, throwing motion, and the spiral on his ball are all impressive. He is as good an athlete as any QB you might see, other than the "option/run first" guys. Accuracy has been an issue, but based upon his Oline, I think we can all relate to what is happening to him as similar to Eli. What I don't know is his ability to read the defense pre-snap...he seems to throw mainly to his primary target (again could be due to lack of protection). He is a risk, but if he does well in the interviews, he could be an incredible QB. Nobody seems to make these excuses for Lamar Jackson, who's offensive line is terrible and has receivers that can't catch. Yet he's putting up better numbers and improving his completion percentage against better competition.

DING DING DING!!! Finally someone says it. Now I love Josh Allen and think he’s the most Giants likely pick. But. I REALLY think we should be looking at Lamar Jackson more. People always wann day “He’s a run first QB” but he has SO MUCH potential as a passer and you’ve seen the growth each season. I honestly feel that he is going to be a BIGGER revelation at the QB position than Vick was. He only runs so often now at Louisville because his legs are probably the next best offensive play that Louisville can call besides him throwing.

can't wait to read the scouting reports on this guy. He's going to get knocked for the style of offense played. I think a smart team will pick him up and he will be a star. Having said that, I don't know if his frame will hold up to the pounding he might get. That would be my worry anyway.

Either way, he would be an electric player for a few years anyway.

With his speed one has to wonder if he could move to WR as well if the QB thing doesn't work out. He'd seem to be a threat there as he has all the measurables.

Appreciate your input

Baker Mayfield as the guy Dep once said should have been benched in the middle of the first quarter against Ohio State early in 2016.

In comment 13693411 Dan in the Springs said:

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can't wait to read the scouting reports on this guy. He's going to get knocked for the style of offense played. I think a smart team will pick him up and he will be a star. Having said that, I don't know if his frame will hold up to the pounding he might get. That would be my worry anyway. Either way, he would be an electric player for a few years anyway. With his speed one has to wonder if he could move to WR as well if the QB thing doesn't work out. He'd seem to be a threat there as he has all the measurables.

I’ve been a Jackson guy for over a year. Would love him in blue. He will be the best of the lot. Just watch.

To me, Jackson looks like the best player of the bunch. But that's only going to matter if the team that drafts him runs an offense that features his mobility. That will take some courage, and the foresight to back him up with quarterbacks that are also mobile.

Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...

Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....

In comment 13693632 bw in dc said:

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Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class... Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....

.


There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!

You'd need to mold the offense to his skills, and I don't think many NFL coaches are willing to do that.