I've put more attention on the QBs this year than ever before...partially because of my role with Ourlads being expanded, but also with NYG's 2018 Draft intentions.
The names we all thought would make this QB class elite (Allen-Darnold-Rosen-Jackson) have been underwhelming. I've seen each of them 5+ times this year, and Rosen is the only one I would take in the top 5 overall. That can change...a lot of work still needs to be done and they still have a few games left.
But the name I can't get away from is Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma. At 6'1, he is under the desired height most look for in an elite QB prospect. He plays in a spread attack that is somewhat simple read wise (not as simple as some). He is doing things that he simply won't get away with in the NFL.
That said, he may end up being my top graded QB. His physical shortcomings don't impact his game. He can stand tall in the pocket, does a great job of seeing and throwing through traffic. Unreal release that can be repeated time after time in any situation. Very good accuracy to all three levels. The mobility is used to pass, not to run. Keeps his eyes downfield and will always look to throw, the running is a third or fourth option. And I think this kid is one of the toughest SOBs I had ever scouted at the position. Loves the game, the passion oozes out of him. A gamer that will rise to the occasion, finds ways to get it done.
I am surprised to be saying this...but I may want him as the next NYG quarterback.
If we take a QB in the top 5, I hope that we sit the QB behind Eli for one more year. Even if we need to plan after Eli, he deserves the opportunity to get one more chance to end things here on a better note than this disaster of a season. To boot, it wouldn't hurt a young QB to take a red-shirt year behind Eli.
Now the real scouts, they throw everything else into the equation. And if both Rosen and Darnold declare, Mayfield will be the 3rd Qb taken.. But as often times they do, the scouts and NFL guys will over think this one. Mayfield is Russell Wilson 2.0.
It's too bad, because I think he could be great. If you just drafted the guy with the mindset of using him to his full ability for the length of his rookie deal, you'd really have something.
It's the need to be able to say you have the guy for the next 10 years that leads to problems.
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Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...
Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
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There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!
Mayfield does NOT lack arm strength. It’s a misconception based off his size. He makes every throw including across the field and can do it off balanced. Best arm in this class? No. You say he can’t run around like he does now b/c he isn’t fast - you don’t need a burner, you need someone to buy time in today’s NFL. Mayfield buys time like Russell Wilson. Always has his eyes downfield.
I could see a Jeff Garcia type down he road, which could be fine. But no way Brees or Russell.
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In comment 13693632 bw in dc said:
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Toss his numbers and, instead, watch his release, tightness of his spiral and velocity. There is a lot of Marino in his arm talent. The guy can put the ball anywhere on a dime. And for a big guy he can move. He and Darnell have the best arm talent in the draft, and Darnell is a distant second to Allen. I agree there is risk, but he has the highest ceiling of any QB prospect in this class...
Dark horse - Clayton Thorsen. Not sure he’s coming out, and he’s had a subpar year stats wise, but I really like the way he throws and moves....
.
There you go, I'm not the only one on his bandwagon.
Regarding Sy's description of Mayfield, I don't recall hearing the words 'arm strength', that is where Mayfield is lacking. He is also not going to be running around like that in the NFL, although a good athlete, not that fast.
He doesn't have the speed of Jackson for example.
Jackson reminds me of a Michael Vick, coming out of college, that can throw a little better. He still seems like he would be a run first QB at the next level, at least at the outset.
The Giants NEED to draft a QB! How often do they pick in
the top 3, ask yourself that question...even Eli was gained
with the 4th pick of Rivers, and subsequent trade, that was
well over a decade ago now!
Mayfield does NOT lack arm strength. It’s a misconception based off his size. He makes every throw including across the field and can do it off balanced. Best arm in this class? No. You say he can’t run around like he does now b/c he isn’t fast - you don’t need a burner, you need someone to buy time in today’s NFL. Mayfield buys time like Russell Wilson. Always has his eyes downfield.
He's not going to run around like Wilson at the next level,
Wilson has the intangibles, and a high football IQ.
That's one of the reasons he CAN move around like he does.
He had them in college as well.
Nope, don't see it and he does lack arm strength IMO.
The BIG 12 conference is not exactly known for its defense as well...
My pecking order would be Allen, Darnold, then Rosen
on the QB's mentioned.
He's not going to run around like Wilson at the next level,
Wilson has the intangibles, and a high football IQ.
That's one of the reasons he CAN move around like he does.
He had them in college as well.
Nope, don't see it and he does lack arm strength IMO.
The BIG 12 conference is not exactly known for its defense as well...
My pecking order would be Allen, Darnold, then Rosen
on the QB's mentioned.
I'm not sure what the order is, but I think you have the right three - assuming they all come out. Allen is the most physically gifted, Darnell looks like a guy, and this is important, who will be willing to hand tough in the pocket and make throws (and that is critical), and Rosen looks like the most interesting mix of many parts but does not do anything spectacular...yet.
I think Oklahoma caught Ohio State at the right time - early. The Buckeyes secondary is young and basically all new from last year, especially when they had Lattimore and Conley taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. I’m not sure if that would happen again...
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What are we to make of his performance against Ohio State where he completed 77% of his passes threw for 356 yds and 3 tds.
I think Oklahoma caught Ohio State at the right time - early. The Buckeyes secondary is young and basically all new from last year, especially when they had Lattimore and Conley taken in the first round of the 2017 draft. I’m not sure if that would happen again...
Well, I hope Oklahoma makes it into the playoff, cause I want to see Mayfield against top defenses.
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You'd need to mold the offense to his skills, and I don't think many NFL coaches are willing to do that.
It's too bad, because I think he could be great. If you just drafted the guy with the mindset of using him to his full ability for the length of his rookie deal, you'd really have something.
It's the need to be able to say you have the guy for the next 10 years that leads to problems.
Couldn't agree more with Go Terps. Of course it's nice to get a guy who can play for a long time, but the strategy of drafting talent early who won't be able to play for a long time kind of defeats the advantages given to teams who draft well. By the time your player is ready to make an impact he's only a year or two away from a big payday. After that you're basically paying him full FA dollars or dealing with cap issues like Cousins is giving the Redskins.
On the other hand, if you do want a long-term solution at QB you're not going to find any good ones in FA. That's the problem.
So ideally you build your system like Reid has in KC, one that may not be a "pro-style" offense but where a player can do very well. Like Dallas modified its offense to take advantage of its running game and what Dak could manage as a rookie.
Here's what McAdoo said about the KC offense when asked about Alex Smith's unbelievably low INT rate and success this year:
Advantages always go to coaches who find undervalued playmakers - like BB did with TE's and shorter receivers, or like KC has done with taking guys who aren't the typical size.
It's why the one retread coach I'm interested in is Brad Childress. I think he might be capable of doing similar things here after all his years of working with Reid and the success he had in Minny.