In honor of Tyrod Taylor benching and Giants situation

I would have no issue if the Giants chose a QB this year and next. Or two in this year's draft (like the Redskins did with RG3/Cousins).

I think it's imperative we solve that position and it's better to throw more assets at it than take the risk a single guy bombs.

I simultaneously don't want us reaching for a guy in the top three if we don't have high grades on them.

it's a paradox, if you choose wrong, you could easily wind up like the Bills/Dolphins/Browns. Because if you use a top 5 pick on a QB, who sucks, that's 4 years down the toilet if you assume you can't win with a mediocre to poor QB. Then you need to hope you're bad enough again at that point you're ready to throw in the towel on the new QB and there is another franchise QB there for you to pick.

Worst case is you're mediocre like the Dolphins have often been and then you're still in QB purgatory.

No NFL team wants to be in QB purgatory.

The 2018 draft, if the Giants stay in their current draft spot or improve it, will be significantly franchise altering for the Giants (captain obvious?).

but in a similar vein, I saw the list of Jets QBs since Namath. Very similar to the Bills & Dolphins, but along a much more expansive timeline (over 40 years to-date). I think the longest tenured starter they had was Ken O'Brien.

It truly underscores the importance of having a franchise caliber player that one can depend on for a long time. Everything else then becomes easier to deal with.

on over valuing QB's just because you feel there is a need.

2014:

Bortles, manziel and Bridgewater (I would say this is pretty darn average with Bortles possibly being looked at as needing to be replaced soon)

2015:

Goff, Wentz and Lynch (1 proven, 1 getting there and 1 unknown)

2013:

Horrible (EJ Manuel)

2012:

Luck, Griffin, Tannehill and Weeden

2011:

C. Newton, Locker, Gabbert and Ponder


The point is, trading abck may very well be the right choice. Why waste a pick on Webb just to go QB next year. It isn't the same thing as letting guys battle it out. You would be sacrificing a player at another position for a battle with another player at the same position. Let's say this happens. The 2018 1st Rd pick will have an advantage period because of the high draft selection. So, he may be unfairly given status above Webb (3rd in 2017). But, at the same time neither guy may prove to be the GUY next year. So you waste a 3rd in 17, a first in 18 while letting other positions falter.

I am not saying don't draft a QB and not saying don't draft him in top 3-5 pick. BUT, you can't just eliminate trade downs for more picks or selections of a better player elsewhere because of a preconceived idea that a QB has to be taken at top of the draft.

you seek is already on your roster? How large a tent do you construct to cover the term "franchise?" Does Dak Prescott get coverage ? He was taken in the fourth . Dec should be the month of evaluation for Webb.

Bills were spinning their wheels. Another team deluding themselves by thinking that the Gentleman's 92 QB rating + mobility = TDs.

interesting to watch on Saturday, more important than any Giants game we'll see this fall/winter.

since Bernie Kosar?

You could almost fill a phone book.

Where the Dolphins made the mistake was not drafting Matt Ryan when they had the No. 1 pick overall . They took Jake Long instead, anyone want to guess who was presiding over that particular Dolphins draft?

When I graduated college in June, 1982, my 4 year college roommate was close friends with Dan Marino. They went to HS together at Central Catholic in Pittsburgh, played varsity baseball together (Dan-SS & Dave at 2B) as well as growing up together.
As a result, I got to see some HS and college games Dan played at CC and Pitt.
When he graduated from Pitt, he had had a knee injury and there were rumors swirling that he was involved in some unsavory practices with marijuana though never proved.
Even though we had drafted Simms in the first round a few years earlier, I prayed and hoped and prayed some more that we would draft Marino in the first round.
Instead we drafted Terry Kinard (#10) which was okay because we had a need at safety and Phil had an excellent career with the Giants.
However, Dan wasn't picked until 27th by Miami and while he only reached one SB and never won the big game, Miami was a scary team for all the years he was their starting QB.
I wouldn't argue with Indy choosing Elway #1 overall, but the QB's drafted between Elway and Marino were Todd Blackledge (#7 KC), Jim Kelly (#14 Buffalo- No argument here either!), Tony Eason (#15 NE) and the infamous Ken O'Brien (#24- NYJ).
I wonder if the fortunes would have changed for the Jets if they drafted Marino at 24 instead of O'Brien?
How about KC or New England.
How about the teams that drafted "ho-hummers" before Marino like Seattle with Curt Warner (#3), San Diego with Billy Ray Smith (#5)or the Eagles with Michael Haddix (#8).

I agree that if there is a stud QB with the top 2 or 3 pick next spring, we need to grab him! It could be a franchise changing move either for the positive......or conversely, for the negative.

In comment 13692930 RetroJint said:

Quote:

you seek is already on your roster? How large a tent do you construct to cover the term "franchise?" Does Dak Prescott get coverage ? He was taken in the fourth . Dec should be the month of evaluation for Webb. Bills were spinning their wheels. Another team deluding themselves by thinking that the Gentleman's 92 QB rating + mobility = TDs.

Then you put your eggs in that basket. Put your faith in the scouts and front office and roll with Webb.

When you look at the top QB's of this era Brady and Wilson stand out as outliers though. franchise QB's are not coming from the 3rd round or beyond traditionally in the NFL.

While Peyton, Ben, Eli, Rivers, Rodgers, Ryan, Luck, and while it's still early now it sure looks like Wentz, Goff, and Watson, even expand the list to Newton, Stafford, Alex Smith, with Mariota as a ?, but they're all 1st round picks and add in Brees and Carr as a high 2nd's.

statistics are not on the side of finding a franchise QB in the 3rd round.

Doesn't mean Webb won't be it, but saying it would be a statistical anomaly.

Flip side is yes, there have been a bunch of 1st round QB busts, so you must choose wisely. Nothing is a slam dunk.

My point is trading down, while a fan mantra does not solve the QB problem.

this year.

Worst thing that can happen is a trade down and winding up with mid-to-late firsts and not having the shot at the franchise QB.

Stats are for losers, but they also don't lie. Look how much Brady skews this.

preclude us from taking a stud QB with a high first rd pick.

Let Webb and the pick battle it out in '19. If the winner really is our franchise QB and durable, trade the other.

We CANNOT let the presence of Webb stop us from drafting a stud QB. That's what stupid franchises do. And too many times it takes a couple years to find out the guy they had really isn't a stud franchise QB. Not saying Webb can't be, but we CANNOT depend on it.

In comment 13692997 Dr. D said:

Quote:

preclude us from taking a stud QB with a high first rd pick. Let Webb and the pick battle it out in '19. If the winner really is our franchise QB and durable, trade the other. We CANNOT let the presence of Webb stop us from drafting a stud QB. That's what stupid franchises do. And too many times it takes a couple years to find out the guy they had really isn't a stud franchise QB. Not saying Webb can't be, but we CANNOT depend on it.

In my opinion, for a team with a lot of needs, having two top draft picks holding the clipboard behind Eli for a few years is a waste. I'd rather draft a OL/RB/LB type player who can help day 1 theoretically. If Webb doesn't work out there will be QB's there again next year, even maybe Darnold.

In comment 13692960 GiantBlue said:

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When I graduated college in June, 1982, my 4 year college roommate was close friends with Dan Marino. They went to HS together at Central Catholic in Pittsburgh, played varsity baseball together (Dan-SS & Dave at 2B) as well as growing up together. As a result, I got to see some HS and college games Dan played at CC and Pitt. When he graduated from Pitt, he had had a knee injury and there were rumors swirling that he was involved in some unsavory practices with marijuana though never proved. Even though we had drafted Simms in the first round a few years earlier, I prayed and hoped and prayed some more that we would draft Marino in the first round. Instead we drafted Terry Kinard (#10) which was okay because we had a need at safety and Phil had an excellent career with the Giants. However, Dan wasn't picked until 27th by Miami and while he only reached one SB and never won the big game, Miami was a scary team for all the years he was their starting QB. I wouldn't argue with Indy choosing Elway #1 overall, but the QB's drafted between Elway and Marino were Todd Blackledge (#7 KC), Jim Kelly (#14 Buffalo- No argument here either!), Tony Eason (#15 NE) and the infamous Ken O'Brien (#24- NYJ). I wonder if the fortunes would have changed for the Jets if they drafted Marino at 24 instead of O'Brien? How about KC or New England. How about the teams that drafted "ho-hummers" before Marino like Seattle with Curt Warner (#3), San Diego with Billy Ray Smith (#5)or the Eagles with Michael Haddix (#8). I agree that if there is a stud QB with the top 2 or 3 pick next spring, we need to grab him! It could be a franchise changing move either for the positive......or conversely, for the negative.

I thought the rumors on Marino were about cocaine?

And the player picked after Marino was one of the best DBs ever, Darrell Green.

In comment 13692931 mikeygiants said:

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interesting to watch on Saturday, more important than any Giants game we'll see this fall/winter.

Josh Rosen is going to be a star at the next level

In comment 13693000 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

In comment 13692997 Dr. D said: Quote: preclude us from taking a stud QB with a high first rd pick. Let Webb and the pick battle it out in '19. If the winner really is our franchise QB and durable, trade the other. We CANNOT let the presence of Webb stop us from drafting a stud QB. That's what stupid franchises do. And too many times it takes a couple years to find out the guy they had really isn't a stud franchise QB. Not saying Webb can't be, but we CANNOT depend on it. In my opinion, for a team with a lot of needs, having two top draft picks holding the clipboard behind Eli for a few years is a waste. I'd rather draft a OL/RB/LB type player who can help day 1 theoretically. If Webb doesn't work out there will be QB's there again next year, even maybe Darnold.

It's really not "a few years", it's realistically 2018.

I could see a reasonable scenario where the Giants are NOT paying $23.2M on the cap for 39 year old Eli Manning, but agree to a mutual parting of the ways.

the rest of the roster doesn't matter.

It's MUCH easier to fill out a roster, then it is to find a stud franchise QB.

As I said on another thread, you only get to pick in the top few picks once in a blue moon (unless you're a perennial loser). To be able to do it when there's a stud QB or 2 available, you worry about the other parts later.

We cannot depend on Webb being the guy. Maybe he will be, but we can't depend on it. And we can't judge whether he is or not by evaluating him in December.

I swear some of you probably wish the Giants picked Sean Taylor or an offensive lineman in '04 instead of Eli. I know some were saying, "we have Kerry Collins and we have other needs". Bullshit.

F the other needs, figure them out later.

Marino retired in 1999.

Jay Fiedler
Damon Huard
Ray Lucas
Brian Griese
AJ Feeley
Sage Rosenfels
Gus Frerotte
Daunte Culpepper
Joey Harrington
Cleo Lemon
Trent Green
John Beck
Chad Pennington
Chad Henne
Tyler Thigpen
Matt Moore
Ryan Tannehill
Jay Cutler

18 QB's in 18 yeas.

and that includes a 4+ year stretch of just Tannehill.

of head coaching stability.

In comment 13693019 Dr. D said:

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the rest of the roster doesn't matter. It's MUCH easier to fill out a roster, then it is to find a stud franchise QB. As I said on another thread, you only get to pick in the top few picks once in a blue moon (unless you're a perennial loser). To be able to do it when there's a stud QB or 2 available, you worry about the other parts later. We cannot depend on Webb being the guy. Maybe he will be, but we can't depend on it. And we can't judge whether he is or not by evaluating him in December. I swear some of you probably wish the Giants picked Sean Taylor or an offensive lineman in '04 instead of Eli. I know some were saying, "we have Kerry Collins and we have other needs". Bullshit. F the other needs, figure them out later.

No, I understand and agree on the importance of a QB. I just disagree with people automatically dismissing Webb before he gets a chance. We may already have our guy. His senior year was better than almost all of these guys, he came from the Pac-12 also, he has the size and skillset, and he's been behind Eli for a year also. I also understand the dings on him, however all these guys have dings, and I see nothing that tells me any of these guys are better than what we have right now in Webb. I may be wrong, but I may be right. Regardless I think the best chance to take is see what we have in Webb and build elsewhere with this draft.

with Webb being at the top of a list of 15-18 over the next 15 years.

I have NOTHING against Webb, but we have no idea whether he's the next franchise QB. Some here have used that as a reason NOT to draft another QB. Huh? Because he MIGHT be?

If he is a stud and we draft another, we trade one for a high pick.

for the elusive franchise QB for eternity here is the Browns since reforming as a franchise.

I'd say Kosar even though he's not in Kelly or Marino's class, but those Browns moved to Baltimore.

So this is since 1999 expansion draft.

Tim Couch
Doug Pederson
Spergon Wynn
Kelly Holcomb
Jeff Garcia
Luke McCown
Trent Dilfer
Charlie Frye
Derek Anderson
Brady Quinn
Ken Dorsey
Bruce Gradkowski
Colt McCoy
Jake Delhomme
Seneca Wallace
Brandon Weeden
Thad Lewis
Jason Campbell
Brian Hoyer
Johnny Manziel
Connor Shaw
Josh McCown
Austin Davis
RG3
Cody Kessler
DeShone Kizer
Kevin Hogan

27 QB's in 17 seasons. holy shit.

I just don't think we can count on having such a high pick with a QB worthy of it, next year. We'll probably have a new coach and easier schedule, etc. And the QB class might not be as great.

And I don't want to put it off another year. Next year could be Eli's last.

In comment 13693036 Dr. D said:

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I just don't think we can count on having such a high pick with a QB worthy of it, next year. We'll probably have a new coach and easier schedule, etc. And the QB class might not be as great. And I don't want to put it off another year. Next year could be Eli's last.

My personal opinion is that with our bad season, fans are "reaching" for a QB here. I think lots are overrating these guys and making a huge leap that they are sure things. One example is Allen. The pro-Allen camp now says that sure Allen's stunk, but his team stinks and we should draft him anyway. I don't think we should use a top 10 pick on a guy unless he's lighting it up. Lower rounds sure. These guys have lots of red flags. Also the more I read up on what scouts are saying, I keep reading that this class looks like it was initially overrated. Grabbing a QB with our top 10 pick just because he's a QB is a reach. I don't see anyone yet who looks like Wentz or Goff, but I guess the combine will shake that out. Finally having Webb does matter to me. We don't need to reach and take a chance, because odds are they won't be any better than Webb.

I'd completely forgotten some of these guys played for them.

Todd took over for Namath in 1977.

Josh McCown
Bryce Petty
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Michael Vick
Geno Smith
Greg McElroy
Mark Sanchez
Kellen Clemens
Brett Favre
Kellen Clemens
Chad Pennington
Brooks Bollinger
Quincy Carter
Chad Pennington
Ray Lucas
Rick Mirer
Vinny Testaverde
Glenn Foley
Frank Reich
Neil O'Donnell
Bubby Brister
Jack Trudeau
Boomer Esiason
Browning Nagle
Kyle Mackey
Tony Eason
David Norrie
Ken O'Brien
Pat Ryan
Matt Robinson
Marty Domres
Richard Todd

are happy they traded away the 2nd pick of the '16 draft to the Eagles?

Who needs Carson Wentz, when you already have a QB and have so many other needs?

So its 31 QBs over 40 years.

I admit I don't follow college ball very closely. Just know this QB class has been talked about for a while and naturally the higher your pick, the higher your odds of picking the right one.

In some drafts over the years, there have only been one great. Others there are 2-3, but others have been picked in between. Just look at the ones picked between Elway and Marino.

I just want to maximize our odds.

but if you have a top 3 pick, you shouldn't have to reach. And I don't want to hear that an OT is rated higher than a stud QB. How f*ing great can an OT be, to be valued higher than a franchise QB?

before he has a chance. He'll get his chance, probably in '19, to battle it out for the starting job. He just won't be given the job.

games started listed to the right:

2017 Eli Manning (8)
2016 Eli Manning (16)
2015 Eli Manning (16)
2014 Eli Manning (16)
2013 Eli Manning (16)
2012 Eli Manning (16)
2011 Eli Manning (16)
2010 Eli Manning (16)
2009 Eli Manning (16)
2008 Eli Manning (16)
2007 Eli Manning (16)
2006 Eli Manning (16)
2005 Eli Manning (16)
2004 Kurt Warner (9) / Eli Manning (7)
2003 Kerry Collins (13) / Jesse Palmer (3)
2002 Kerry Collins (16)
2001 Kerry Collins (16)
2000 Kerry Collins (16)

You never know what you have until its gone.

In comment 13693079 Bubba said:

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games started listed to the right: 2017 Eli Manning (8) 2016 Eli Manning (16) 2015 Eli Manning (16) 2014 Eli Manning (16) 2013 Eli Manning (16) 2012 Eli Manning (16) 2011 Eli Manning (16) 2010 Eli Manning (16) 2009 Eli Manning (16) 2008 Eli Manning (16) 2007 Eli Manning (16) 2006 Eli Manning (16) 2005 Eli Manning (16) 2004 Kurt Warner (9) / Eli Manning (7) 2003 Kerry Collins (13) / Jesse Palmer (3) 2002 Kerry Collins (16) 2001 Kerry Collins (16) 2000 Kerry Collins (16) You never know what you have until its gone.

Agreed. Also, Eli has played 9 games this year.

Blake Bortles was the third pick in 2014.

Bob Griffin was the second pick in 2012.

Ryan Tannehill was the eighth pick in 2012.

Jake Locker was the eighth pick in 2011.

Sam Bradford was the first pick in 2010.

Mark Sanchez was the fifth pick in 2009.

Jamarcus Russell was the first pick in 2007.

Vince Young was the third pick in 2006.

Etc, etc, etc

since 2004. I don't know the exact number but it's more than one per season on average, I think.

That said, if you are in position to take a QB high, you have conviction on one, and it's time to plan for the future you have to pull the trigger regardless of who is on your roster.

.

In comment 13693108 Greg from LI said:

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Blake Bortles was the third pick in 2014. Bob Griffin was the second pick in 2012. Ryan Tannehill was the eighth pick in 2012. Jake Locker was the eighth pick in 2011. Sam Bradford was the first pick in 2010. Mark Sanchez was the fifth pick in 2009. Jamarcus Russell was the first pick in 2007. Vince Young was the third pick in 2006. Etc, etc, etc

Agree, that's the conundrum, miss and you're screwed, but hit and you can be set up for success for a long time, in fact maybe the most clear way to set your team up for success is the franchise QB.

or just pick one because it's a need. I'm just saying, if a potential stud franchise QB is avail when we pick, we pick him. The fact we have Eli and Webb shouldn't factor in the decision.

Let the pick and Webb battle it out for the future. Hopefully one of them will be our QB for the next 10+ years and we don't have to draft another for a long time.

And we won't have any nasty list of QBs since Eli.

I have reservations about Mayfield too, but I think I've become convinced that he's the best prospect in this draft.

with the rookie salaries, it's not nearly as painful and it shouldn't be a factor.

Having two highly regarded QBs to battle it out for long term starter, maximizes our odds.

Again I have nothing against Webb, but we shouldn't assume he's the guy and he shouldn't just be handed the job, regardless of how hard a worker he's known to be.

because of the new CBA and rookie salaries you NEED a contribution from your 1st round picks and early.

If you miss on a QB:

a: you are going to give them a lot of chances to prove themself and your team will suffer

b: you used a premium pick on a failed prospect at your most important position

just look how the mediocrity to poor play of Flowers and Apple plagued the team early on.

To say because the investment from a salary cap standpoint isn't as much should mean missing on your early first QB shouldn't be a consideration is very short-sighted.

What it does allow though is for that QB to sit for a year and be mentored because normally the QB position cap % is very high, when you get a franchise QB on a rookie deal you're saving a lot, but you need to maximize those years (like Seattle did with Russel Wilson) to truly exploit it.

Is why the Giants need to get their next franchise QB in this draft, you NEVER pass on that opportunity. Once you have that player if you have a good organization and GM, you can build a team to compete for the Super Bowl. You never go half ass at obtaining a franchise QB, thinking Webb is and leaving it at that would be doing that exactly. If he were so good, he would already be playing, trust me on that. Him staying at #3 tells you everything you want to know. If he were good, he could save McAdoo and Reese's jobs, obviously they don't even want him to get in game action by mistake, LOL. Go get the next QB, this is as obvious as any decision the Giants ever had to make they don't and they will pay a heavy price.

it sucks if you miss on a high draft pick regardless of position.

With the new rookie salary slotting, what difference does it make if the high pick bust is a QB, OT or CB?

If you only pick in the top few picks once in a blue moon and it happens when your franchise QB is near the end of his career, the downside of missing on a QB is outweighed, imo, by the increased odds of getting your long term QB.

Buffalo has decided to both see what NP has re: their future and also
#SuckFor_______ if NP isn't an NFL QB.
It'll likely produce losses and give them a better draft spot to either trade up for a QB given their 2 1s...or...stay where they end up and get 2 firstrounders for other needs.
It'll P-off Shady but they likely trade him draftday.

Years from now, we could look back on this and see this horrible season as a blessing (disguised as a shit stain). We probably couldn't have swung the trade for Eli if we hadn't sucked in '03.

We might get our next franchise QB partly because we sucked so bad in '17. Or the pick will push Webb but Webb will win out and the pick will ultimately be traded.

But just assuming and hoping Webb is the guy is not wise imo.

The success rate of 1st round QB's is dismal. The Giants "lucked" out with Eli. What if they drafted Roethlisberger and didn't have to give up extra picks? Who knows, most likely similar or better results.

The reality is Eli is finished, he still makes the same mistakes (EVERY GAME) he did 10 years ago. He either needs to restructure his deal or tell Giants where he would like to be traded
As for future, Webb needs to play NOW, let him fail or succeed. Then Giants can decide what road to take regarding future.
All coaches and players notified their futures are in play. Who Rises?

Its rediculous to speculate. You can't make it sound like these guys are sure things, or if they're even better than Webb (who we already have). If we didnt have the top QB from the Pac 12 last year I'd agree we need to take a shot this draft, but we do. Just because he's sitting behind Eli right now doesnt mean he sucks. Thats all Darnold would be doing too.

but the rate goes from bad to worse with each round. The stats posted by pj show it; only Brady skews the 6th round.

So drafting a QB is a crap-shoot, what else is new?

Drafting in general is a crap-shoot.

But we can't just assume Webb is the guy and hand him the job, no more than we should hand it to a high first round pick.

Two young QBs competing is better than one. It increases our odds and competition is always good.

yet so many are ready to put all their eggs in Webb's basket. Based on what?

Who you rather use a top 5 pick on a guy who will add depth to the competition for a starting role in 2019/2020, or would you rather use it to draft a starter on the OL or D in 2018?

In comment 13693445 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

Who you rather use a top 5 pick on a guy who will add depth to the competition for a starting role in 2019/2020, or would you rather use it to draft a starter on the OL or D in 2018?

It's not just "competition for a starting role in 2019/2020". It's the freaking Quarterback! A QB who will hopefully start for the next 10-12 years!

The Browns, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, et al have drafted some nice OL and D players in the first round over the last 20-40 years. Where did it get them?

If you don't have a quality QB, you don't have shit.

The rest of the roster is much easier to assemble. The QB is the most difficult to find rare piece.

In comment 13693113 Britt in VA said:

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since 2004. I don't know the exact number but it's more than one per season on average, I think. That said, if you are in position to take a QB high, you have conviction on one, and it's time to plan for the future you have to pull the trigger regardless of who is on your roster.

Redskins QBs since their last Super Bowl in 1991, by games started:

1992: Mark Rypien (16)
1993: Mark Rypien (10), Rich Gannon (4), Cary Conklin (2)
1994: Heath Shuler (8), John Friesz (4), Gus Frerotte (4)
1995: Gus Frerotte (11), Heath Shuler (5)
1996: Gus Frerotte (16)
1997: Gus Frerotte (13), Jeff Hostetler (3)
1998: Trent Green (14), Gus Frerotte (2)
1999: Brad Johnson (16)
2000: Brad Johnson (11), Jeff George (5)
2001: Tony Banks (14), Jeff George (2)
2002: Shane Matthews (7), Patrick Ramsey (5), Danny Wuerffel (4)
2003: Patrick Ramsey (11), Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2004: Mark Brunell (9), Patrick Ramsey (7)
2005: Mark Brunell (15), Patrick Ramsey (1)
2006: Mark Brunell (9), Jason Campbell (7)
2007: Jason Campbell (13), Todd Collins (3)
2008: Jason Campbell (16)
2009: Jason Campbell (16)
2010: Donovan McNabb (13), Rex Grossman (3)
2011: Rex Grossman (13), John Beck (3)
2012: Robert Griffin III (15), Kirk Cousins (1)
2013: Robert Griffin III (13), Kirk Cousins (3)
2014: Robert Griffin III (7), Kirk Cousins (5), Colt McCoy (4)
2015: Kirk Cousins (16)
2016: Kirk Cousins (16)
2017: Kirk Cousins (9)

Interesting stuff. Thanks.

for the Redskins in 26 seasons. The best of the lot IMO was RGIII who could have been a dominant player, but Shanahan ruined him his rookie year

Webb was a third rounder. Third rounders have a 50% total fail rate. Of the remaining 50%, only a small portion are great. The chance of finding a great QB are undoubtedly even smaller than small.

Bottomline, Webb is a lottery ticket (like Nassib was). If we have a shot at a legit first round talent (even a mid-first round talent) at QB, we should take him. A better lottery ticket to pair with our third round lottery ticket. Hopefully one pans out. If both pan out (incredibly unlikely) - great, you trade one for another first rounder down the road.

the Redskins won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QBs. Was it the QB or the Coach/system?

a good way of putting it. I've been trying to say it's about increasing our odds, some people aren't getting it; maybe your lottery analogy will help.

This thread is all about how multiple teams have gone years without a franchise QB, but some don't seem to be connecting the dots.

like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson give some people the false impression that drafting a QB is easy and that it's common for 3rd round picks to step in and be a franchise QB.

The reality is that for every Dak and Russell, there are several that are at best, career backups and some who are out of the league in a short time.

The problem I have this draft is that none of the top 3 or 4 QBs who were dubbed franchise QBs before the season are having particularly great seasons. They are underwhelming. This is why I advocate trading down. Depending on how far down they trade on of the 4 would still be available or Mayfield may be. They would, in theory, have another 1st round pick to spend on OL, LB, or RB and at least one other extra pick in the 2nd or 3rd.

In comment 13693948 Matt M. said:

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The problem I have this draft is that none of the top 3 or 4 QBs who were dubbed franchise QBs before the season are having particularly great seasons. They are underwhelming. This is why I advocate trading down. Depending on how far down they trade on of the 4 would still be available or Mayfield may be. They would, in theory, have another 1st round pick to spend on OL, LB, or RB and at least one other extra pick in the 2nd or 3rd.

My personal opinion on that is I would play less attention to the stats, and focus more on how they play if you get mu distinction. Look at the mechanics, style of offense, obviously size, arm strength, etc.

their stats are low on the list of what I'd use to make a decision on if they're a franchise QB or not.