There's social media chatter that a commercial test for the disease might be available within five years. If so, that puts the NFL on a ticking clock to find
some kind of prevention, or
an effective treatment, or
a cure
If not, there's a crisis coming for the sport at every level.
CNN: Ex-NFL player confirmed as 1st case of CTE in living patient - (
New Window )
The other thing a test would address is: How much tau does the general population accumulate just through the dings of life? How much worse is it for football players, soccer players, boxers, etc.? Also veterans exposed to blast waves, etc.
More prevalent in any other sports, perhaps?
SMH
Sad but I agree with you. CTE will be a showstopper.
More importantly, when testing is readily available we will be able to compare to a baseline - soccer defenders heading the ball, skateboarders, or even gymnasts bouncing around tumbling and landing on their heads periodically. I would find far more shocking if football is far and away the number 1 cause of CTE in adults and or kids over you telling me that 80% of athletes have some level CTE.
The game as to change- I played it as most of us have, and I purposely used my big asshead and helmet as a battering ram every play. I had no fear with that helmet and big shoulder pads running into someone.
When the rules change and the equipment becomes less forceful the play will soon follow.
I suggested this last year and got "laughed out the room" but the NFL will have positional weight limits in the next 30 years. Force = mass x acceleration - reduce the mass to start.
CTE is already impacting parents decisions on allowing their kids to play in football at all levels.
No league = no money for CTE research, treatment, prevention and no professional football careers for current and future players to pursue.
Makes it infinitely more "real". And when they continue research and find that it doesn't necessarily set in at 80 or 70 or 60 but as early as teens or 20's, then what?
CTE in UFC?
Because before this they had no way to detect other than an autopsy.
It's not so much more evidence against football as it is an improvement in the detection
Do you enjoy the fact that the NFL will potentially go away. I know you love your Chicago Bulls, but it would disappoint me. It’s alnost like the media wants the sport to fold.
I'll find something else to entertain me.
What has not been discussed, because we don't know, is degrees of CTE. Frank Gifford lived a perfectly rich and rewarding life with it, other players have not. Why? We don't know yet. Also, what is the degree of CTE in the average person, or in the person who played high school sports but not pro compared to an NFL player. Again, we do not know. We also have no idea what medical treatments, currently being researched, will be available to better treat brain injuries. Remember, it's not as if CTE is a new thing, it is just newly discovered. So much more to learn about all of this and any rush to judgement is extremely premature.
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who play most contact sports but I don't see why that's used as a defense mechanism on these threads. The NFL has violent collisions of almost 22 players per play, makes money hand over fist, and hid the research from its players for years. They earned the target on their back.
Do you enjoy the fact that the NFL will potentially go away. I know you love your Chicago Bulls, but it would disappoint me. It’s alnost like the media wants the sport to fold.
I don’t give two shits about the NFL. I have and will continue to find something else to do on Sunday’s.
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In comment 13694137 UConn4523 said:
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who play most contact sports but I don't see why that's used as a defense mechanism on these threads. The NFL has violent collisions of almost 22 players per play, makes money hand over fist, and hid the research from its players for years. They earned the target on their back.
Do you enjoy the fact that the NFL will potentially go away. I know you love your Chicago Bulls, but it would disappoint me. It’s alnost like the media wants the sport to fold.
I don’t give two shits about the NFL. I have and will continue to find something else to do on Sunday’s.
I like you as a poster UConn, but you say that posting on a NYG fan site.
2. The final settlement hearing for the NCAA Concussion Class Action Litigation is scheduled for Nov. 28. Under the tentative settlement, anyone who played an NCAA sanctioned sport between 1970 and, I believe, 2015 is entitled to 2 free screenings in their lifetime. I wonder if this CTE test will now be included in the settlement.
This new detection methodology may provide the ability to come to such conclusions.
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In comment 13694142 Sean said:
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In comment 13694137 UConn4523 said:
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who play most contact sports but I don't see why that's used as a defense mechanism on these threads. The NFL has violent collisions of almost 22 players per play, makes money hand over fist, and hid the research from its players for years. They earned the target on their back.
Do you enjoy the fact that the NFL will potentially go away. I know you love your Chicago Bulls, but it would disappoint me. It’s alnost like the media wants the sport to fold.
I don’t give two shits about the NFL. I have and will continue to find something else to do on Sunday’s.
I like you as a poster UConn, but you say that posting on a NYG fan site.
I've explained my stance many times. I enjoy the off season and economics of football. I no longer enjoy the games. I still come on BBI as there are other topics outside of NYG or game threads that I enjoy.
See, this is what I have been saying. Where are the tests on people who don't play football. If you find a a decent portion of those people have the same issue then this discovery may just mean that there isn't a 1 for 1 correlation or that more factors are involved.
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to do an assessment across all working class professions. i would not be surprised to learn of similar rates of CTE in industries like logging, working with heavy machinery (fracking, mining, anything in the extraction economy), commercial fishing, etc. etc., let alone other team sports like rugby and hockey.
See, this is what I have been saying. Where are the tests on people who don't play football. If you find a a decent portion of those people have the same issue then this discovery may just mean that there isn't a 1 for 1 correlation or that more factors are involved.
My company does concussion and head impact research across all sports. But again, I don't know why people don't understand the target on the NFL's back that they put there themselves. And there's been rules applied to youth soccer, for example.
Why do people get offended that its being pushed on the NFL? Don't parents with sons, many on BBI deserve to know what football at a young age will do to their children?
The NFL is going nowhere, either is football.
Take a few Tylenol and call me in the morning.
"Doctor, I woke up and still have CTE"
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In comment 13694185 japanhead said:
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to do an assessment across all working class professions. i would not be surprised to learn of similar rates of CTE in industries like logging, working with heavy machinery (fracking, mining, anything in the extraction economy), commercial fishing, etc. etc., let alone other team sports like rugby and hockey.
See, this is what I have been saying. Where are the tests on people who don't play football. If you find a a decent portion of those people have the same issue then this discovery may just mean that there isn't a 1 for 1 correlation or that more factors are involved.
My company does concussion and head impact research across all sports. But again, I don't know why people don't understand the target on the NFL's back that they put there themselves. And there's been rules applied to youth soccer, for example.
Why do people get offended that its being pushed on the NFL? Don't parents with sons, many on BBI deserve to know what football at a young age will do to their children?
I don't think it's necessarily an opposition to research; it's just pointing out that any research/experimentation that does not include a control set is volatile and somewhat less credible.
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In comment 13694240 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 13694185 japanhead said:
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to do an assessment across all working class professions. i would not be surprised to learn of similar rates of CTE in industries like logging, working with heavy machinery (fracking, mining, anything in the extraction economy), commercial fishing, etc. etc., let alone other team sports like rugby and hockey.
See, this is what I have been saying. Where are the tests on people who don't play football. If you find a a decent portion of those people have the same issue then this discovery may just mean that there isn't a 1 for 1 correlation or that more factors are involved.
My company does concussion and head impact research across all sports. But again, I don't know why people don't understand the target on the NFL's back that they put there themselves. And there's been rules applied to youth soccer, for example.
Why do people get offended that its being pushed on the NFL? Don't parents with sons, many on BBI deserve to know what football at a young age will do to their children?
I don't think it's necessarily an opposition to research; it's just pointing out that any research/experimentation that does not include a control set is volatile and somewhat less credible.
How is it less credible? They are conducting research on those who play football. Because they aren’t also including collegiate wrestlers doesn’t mean the research isn’t credible.
You aren’t going to get everything you want this very second. The NFL spawned this and lots of money is being thrown at research to get to the bottom of it. From there it will likely fan out to other sports. It’s like complaining about which type of cancer they allocate more funds to - isn’t any and all research a good thing?
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In comment 13694189 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13694142 Sean said:
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In comment 13694137 UConn4523 said:
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who play most contact sports but I don't see why that's used as a defense mechanism on these threads. The NFL has violent collisions of almost 22 players per play, makes money hand over fist, and hid the research from its players for years. They earned the target on their back.
Do you enjoy the fact that the NFL will potentially go away. I know you love your Chicago Bulls, but it would disappoint me. It’s alnost like the media wants the sport to fold.
I don’t give two shits about the NFL. I have and will continue to find something else to do on Sunday’s.
I like you as a poster UConn, but you say that posting on a NYG fan site.
I've explained my stance many times. I enjoy the off season and economics of football. I no longer enjoy the games. I still come on BBI as there are other topics outside of NYG or game threads that I enjoy.
"I hate the NFL, but not enough to not go on a team for an NFL forum on a Wednesday afternoon and argue with people about the impact of CTE on the state of the NFL." Makes total sense dude
The NFL is going nowhere, either is football.
There is risk in everything in life. Life is all about taking reasonable risks. Parents across the United States are increasingly unwilling to subject their children to football. But I'm happy some like you are will always be willing to subject your own kids to CTE - that way my kids stay safe while I still get to watch football.
All that said, sports carry risks.
The fact that an avg of 6 people die in the US per year running marathons doesn't prevent the NYC or Boston marathon from occurring.
Roughly 7 people die per year running triathlons, but the sport only increases in popularity.
4,000 walkers/joggers die in the US every year after being struck by a vehicle.
14 UFC fighters have died during sanctioned and unsanctioned events, and that sport has taken the place of boxing.
There have been 5 deaths in college football this year, however only two of those deaths were related to game play. The other three occurred as a result of over exertion/over training in the off-season.
Prior to this year, there had been five deaths total directly due to college football" since 2002.
All that to say, all sports carry risk, some catastrophic, some long term. All we can do in life is manage risk. Maybe there should be no pee wee football, as most traumatic football injuries are directly related to poor blocking and tackling technique. The Seahawks have gone back to fundamentals in regards to tackling, maybe the entire league should follow their lead.
Re: professionals, it’s an assumption of risk issue at this point. Everyone knows or should know the potential risks. Hopefully technological (player equipment) and medical advancements can minimize or eliminate the CTE issue.
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In comment 13694197 Sean said:
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In comment 13694189 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13694142 Sean said:
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In comment 13694137 UConn4523 said:
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who play most contact sports but I don't see why that's used as a defense mechanism on these threads. The NFL has violent collisions of almost 22 players per play, makes money hand over fist, and hid the research from its players for years. They earned the target on their back.
Do you enjoy the fact that the NFL will potentially go away. I know you love your Chicago Bulls, but it would disappoint me. It’s alnost like the media wants the sport to fold.
I don’t give two shits about the NFL. I have and will continue to find something else to do on Sunday’s.
I like you as a poster UConn, but you say that posting on a NYG fan site.
I've explained my stance many times. I enjoy the off season and economics of football. I no longer enjoy the games. I still come on BBI as there are other topics outside of NYG or game threads that I enjoy.
"I hate the NFL, but not enough to not go on a team for an NFL forum on a Wednesday afternoon and argue with people about the impact of CTE on the state of the NFL." Makes total sense dude
I enjoy college football, but who fucking cares what I like. Only people that LOVE the nfl can talk about CTE?
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In comment 13694243 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13694240 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 13694185 japanhead said:
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to do an assessment across all working class professions. i would not be surprised to learn of similar rates of CTE in industries like logging, working with heavy machinery (fracking, mining, anything in the extraction economy), commercial fishing, etc. etc., let alone other team sports like rugby and hockey.
See, this is what I have been saying. Where are the tests on people who don't play football. If you find a a decent portion of those people have the same issue then this discovery may just mean that there isn't a 1 for 1 correlation or that more factors are involved.
My company does concussion and head impact research across all sports. But again, I don't know why people don't understand the target on the NFL's back that they put there themselves. And there's been rules applied to youth soccer, for example.
Why do people get offended that its being pushed on the NFL? Don't parents with sons, many on BBI deserve to know what football at a young age will do to their children?
I don't think it's necessarily an opposition to research; it's just pointing out that any research/experimentation that does not include a control set is volatile and somewhat less credible.
How is it less credible? They are conducting research on those who play football. Because they aren’t also including collegiate wrestlers doesn’t mean the research isn’t credible.
You aren’t going to get everything you want this very second. The NFL spawned this and lots of money is being thrown at research to get to the bottom of it. From there it will likely fan out to other sports. It’s like complaining about which type of cancer they allocate more funds to - isn’t any and all research a good thing?
It absolutely makes it less credible - that's exactly how research works. Unless/until they can rule out CTE as a function of things that may happen outside of football (or contact sports), they can't prove a correlation. Every study requires a control group. To date, CTE research has not included that.
I'm not saying that to dismiss or ignore the CTE concerns - I think they're very real and very legitimate. I'm just pointing out that research conducted without a control group makes it fundamentally more difficult to prove causality.
Could CTE stem from things like opioid abuse or alcoholism, for example? Football players would seem to overindex for both behaviors but those behaviors are not exclusive to football players. Selection bias increases the risk of skewed data, by definition. That's a fact.
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In comment 13694351 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13694243 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 13694240 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 13694185 japanhead said:
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to do an assessment across all working class professions. i would not be surprised to learn of similar rates of CTE in industries like logging, working with heavy machinery (fracking, mining, anything in the extraction economy), commercial fishing, etc. etc., let alone other team sports like rugby and hockey.
See, this is what I have been saying. Where are the tests on people who don't play football. If you find a a decent portion of those people have the same issue then this discovery may just mean that there isn't a 1 for 1 correlation or that more factors are involved.
My company does concussion and head impact research across all sports. But again, I don't know why people don't understand the target on the NFL's back that they put there themselves. And there's been rules applied to youth soccer, for example.
Why do people get offended that its being pushed on the NFL? Don't parents with sons, many on BBI deserve to know what football at a young age will do to their children?
I don't think it's necessarily an opposition to research; it's just pointing out that any research/experimentation that does not include a control set is volatile and somewhat less credible.
How is it less credible? They are conducting research on those who play football. Because they aren’t also including collegiate wrestlers doesn’t mean the research isn’t credible.
You aren’t going to get everything you want this very second. The NFL spawned this and lots of money is being thrown at research to get to the bottom of it. From there it will likely fan out to other sports. It’s like complaining about which type of cancer they allocate more funds to - isn’t any and all research a good thing?
It absolutely makes it less credible - that's exactly how research works. Unless/until they can rule out CTE as a function of things that may happen outside of football (or contact sports), they can't prove a correlation. Every study requires a control group. To date, CTE research has not included that.
I'm not saying that to dismiss or ignore the CTE concerns - I think they're very real and very legitimate. I'm just pointing out that research conducted without a control group makes it fundamentally more difficult to prove causality.
Could CTE stem from things like opioid abuse or alcoholism, for example? Football players would seem to overindex for both behaviors but those behaviors are not exclusive to football players. Selection bias increases the risk of skewed data, by definition. That's a fact.
Exactly. And you are not the only one to point this out. Your comment has been echoed in many publications, but as usual the public and the press only focus on the headlines. We won't know anything really until we establish what CTE is and is not, and what causes it...outside of just playing football. This may surprise people, but it is just as possible that excessive drinking, drug use, or long periods of oxygen deprivation contribute to CTE.
It has nothing to do with CTE. It has to do with proper research protocol. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about the idea that any research which does not contain a control group is lacking credibility by definition.
This really isn't that complicated. Control groups are like elementary school science fair level.
Could you imagine the NFL being THE league responsible for curing such an affliction?
As a fan, so long as the players know the risks, I would support a league that was actively financing a cure. It could help all of mankind.
Acknowledge it and actively fund research for a cure.
But instead the league is more interested in discrediting doctors as a solution...which is going to cost them more fans.
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whatever helps you guys feel better about the nfl I guess.
It has nothing to do with CTE. It has to do with proper research protocol. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about the idea that any research which does not contain a control group is lacking credibility by definition.
This really isn't that complicated. Control groups are like elementary school science fair level.
They found CTE in a living person, the research will continue. What isn’t credible about their findings thus far? You are making it seem like the work is done and the conclusions have been made. Very strange.
It’s the tip of the iceberg, there’s going to be a shitload more to come.
There is a an affliction that may or may not impact one population disproportionately. Standard medical research practice is happening.
The goal should be prevention or cure. It's not a death sentence to the sport or the player.
What's comically silly is chalking it up to an occupational hazard and accepting it. If that's the case why cure any disease or prevent any injury? I mean you're going to die one day anyway so might as well be this?
There's a chance there is a predisposition to the disease if it's a protein abnormality. There could be a drug treatment to prevent and treat.
That would be awesome for all the types of people who are may be impacted. Soldiers, pilots, truck drivers, athletes.
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In comment 13694742 UConn4523 said:
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whatever helps you guys feel better about the nfl I guess.
It has nothing to do with CTE. It has to do with proper research protocol. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about the idea that any research which does not contain a control group is lacking credibility by definition.
This really isn't that complicated. Control groups are like elementary school science fair level.
They found CTE in a living person, the research will continue. What isn’t credible about their findings thus far? You are making it seem like the work is done and the conclusions have been made. Very strange.
It’s the tip of the iceberg, there’s going to be a shitload more to come.
I don't think what I've said is unclear; unless and until the research extends beyond football players and even contact-sport athletes in general, and includes a control group to examine causes other than just repetitive impact trauma, I will continue to believe that there is a significant selection bias within the research.
As I said, it's at least possible that excessive opioid use and/or drinking could contribute to or even directly cause CTE, but those are not factors that can really uncovered if the study is limited to one particular sample set without a control group. Is repetitive impact trauma the most likely cause of CTE? Probably. But that doesn't eliminate the need for a control group even if it's for exclusionary purposes.
I really don't know what's so hard to understand about this: any scientific research conducted without a control group is inherently flawed. There is no way around that.
UConn, I think you misunderstand what some of us are trying to say. It's not about feeling better about the NFL. I feel the same way about the NFL as I did ten years ago. Whether it's spinal injuries, degenerative knees, crippled hands, or CTE the bottom line is the same. Dangerous sports with potentially life altering consequences. All we are saying is that without a control group, which includes athletes outside of football you cannot place in context the correlation of the game to CTE. It's scientific method. Right now we are dealing with a lot of data points and very little analysis.