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Do the Giants have the pieces to move to a 3-4 next year?

CMicks3110 : 11/17/2017 10:51 am
I think JPP and OV could be more effective out of that alignment than 3-4 and if we can add a top MLB to go with Goodson we might be able to cover up our weakness at linebacker better
When we signed snacks  
chuckydee9 : 11/17/2017 10:56 am : link
this is exactly what I thought we would do.. Snacks is so good he doesn't need a second DT next to stop the run.. but what sucks is the our LBs are horrible and in 3-4 you need good to great LBs..
no  
Rocky369 : 11/17/2017 10:56 am : link
but now would be the time to do it.
You are aware that 3-4 scheme generally requires larger players to be  
NoGainDayne : 11/17/2017 10:57 am : link
successful right? Olivier Vernon is 6'2 261

JJ Watt is the kind of guy you want as a 3-4 end. 6'5 290. There are plenty of 3-4 ends at 300.

Snacks is a great NT but even JPP profiles much better to 4-3.

That doesn't even get started on the fact that you need talented linebackers to run a 3-4. Of which we do not have. This is not a good idea.
I don't think so, but it's an interesting thought.  
allstarjim : 11/17/2017 11:04 am : link
I think you have to work a system that gets your best players on the field the most. I think Snacks and Tomlinson (who has already shown, at least to me, that he is a high-level DT), need to be on the field. I think in a 3-4, you're going to have JPP and OV on the ends, still, however, I think you could theoretically put OV at rush OLB, but you would still have Jay Bromley or Avery Moss at DE next to Snacks in the middle, I'm not sure Tomlinson is a good fit for 3-4 DE, and he would need to be.

But obviously, the challenge would be to have a really good linebacker to complement Goodson in the middle. Or you put Casillas in the middle and you find a guy to play OLB who has versatility to rush, stout against the run, and can hold their own in coverage. I think Kennard is the first two, but perhaps a liability in the third area.
We don't even have the pieces  
SHO'NUFF : 11/17/2017 11:16 am : link
to use 4-3...
NO  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/17/2017 11:19 am : link
you need linebackers to do it and we have maybe 1-2
I don't think a 3-4 utilizes our best front seven players  
JonC : 11/17/2017 11:27 am : link
to their strengths, especially JPP and OV. We have no legit 3-4 DEs, and those two players don't figure to be agile enough to play in open space. There's many reasons certain players slot well into a 4-3.

We've got the NT, but we don't have the nasty playmaking LBs.
Possible 3-4 Alignment  
Jim in Tampa : 11/17/2017 11:38 am : link
Vernon goes to OLB (LT's old spot)

JPP goes back to his old RDE position.

Snacks at NT

Tomlinson at LDE

Kennard at the other OLB spot.

Goodson at one ILB spot and a FA or drafted player at the other ILB spot.

I think JPP is big enough to handle the RDE position in a 3-4, especially if he has the offseason to put on some more weight/muscle.

Not sure Vernon can play in space, but other DEs have made the move successfully, including Julius Peppers.
I think  
jtfuoco : 11/17/2017 11:42 am : link
this offseason would be the time to do it. Even if they don't have the talent now It make sense to change over to a 3-4 just based on what colleges are producing these days. Trying to acquire top DE pass rushers is just too expensive in both CAP money and High end Draft picks to be very successful just look at the money the Giants threw at OV and JPP with minimal success at rushing the QB
You got an extra 4 LB laying around?  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/17/2017 11:42 am : link
Then sure
Peppers was a HOF talent  
JonC : 11/17/2017 11:43 am : link
Tomlinson doesn't have the DE body type, he's exclusively a 4-3 DT, JPP is a pass rusher whereas 3-4 DEs by design are space/blocker eaters.

Ultimately, I just don't see it using them to their strengths, and I don't see the talent at OLB being present.

Also, NYG has really almost strictly been acquiring 4-3 pieces throughout the Reese tenure, imv.
If they decide to start clearing the decks  
JonC : 11/17/2017 11:45 am : link
then sure, go for it because it's probably going to be a lean couple/few seasons. But, damn you're wasting a significant pile of cash and cap space half-arsing it.
Landon Collins  
ECham : 11/17/2017 11:54 am : link
can play one of the MLB positions in a 3/4

Much like Mark Barron is playing MLB for the Rams.
that's severely under-utilizing LC  
JonC : 11/17/2017 11:55 am : link
a SS with his talent and instincts should stay put.
Linebackers?  
Doomster : 11/17/2017 12:01 pm : link
Who needs linebackers?

Oh.......
btw  
JonC : 11/17/2017 12:02 pm : link
there's no MIKE in a 3-4, they're ILBs.
RE: Linebackers?  
BigBlueShock : 11/17/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13694897 Doomster said:
Quote:
Who needs linebackers?

Oh.......

You bring such a positive vibe to every thread you show up on. And such good information you offer too! You really bring a lot of substance. Keep up the great work.
This again  
PaulN : 11/17/2017 12:10 pm : link
A 3-4 features great linebacker play, we don't have a single good linebacker on the team, not one. We have Snacks, he could be a nose tackle, other then that we have 4-3 defensive ends, a typical defensive end in a 3-4 is a 6/3 290 lb. player that is going to be focused on holding the point of attack first, we had a great 3/4 defensive end during the Parcells era in Leonard Marshall. But we are not even close to having those type players, we just gave huge contracts to Vernon and JPP, so moving to the 3-4 is simply a dumb idea for this organization right now.
RE: Landon Collins  
NoGainDayne : 11/17/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13694882 ECham said:
Quote:
can play one of the MLB positions in a 3/4

Much like Mark Barron is playing MLB for the Rams.


Why would we do that? Landon Collins finished 2nd in the defensive player of the year voting as a SS. You think it is a good idea to try this player at MLB? Why?

I feel like Giants fans want to say "Hey things were good when we played 3-4, 3-4 is the answer!" Our personnel isn't suited for it at all. We don't know if Vernon can play well in space. JPP is not performing at his natural position this year. Asking him to fill more gaps or play standing up doesn't seem like a good way to remedy that issue.

If LT in his prime was on this team i'd say sure, why not. But he isn't here and there is no reason to expect we have an all time great 3-4 OLB on his way.
dusting off this golden oldie, eh?  
Greg from LI : 11/17/2017 12:13 pm : link
Been a while since we've had a spate of "can they switch to a 3-4" posts.

Why fans of a team that hasn't had a star linebacker since Jessie Armstead 15-20 years ago think that a 3-4 is just the tonic is something I'll never understand.
Here is whats funny  
djstat : 11/17/2017 1:58 pm : link
Teams play in a base 3-4 or 4-3 infrequently anyway and are constantly in sub packages.
Greg..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/17/2017 3:03 pm : link
exactly! It's like people just want to throw shit on the wall at this point to try and fix things, so they pick one of the most illogical formations possible with our personnel.

Makes the days of the 2-9 look desirable.
The 3-4 defense was originally designed to stop the opponents running  
Tom in NY : 11/17/2017 3:32 pm : link
games. Hence why it became so popular in the '80's when to league was still a "run-first" focused offensive scheme.

Today, as we all know, the league is a pass first league.
So why would the Giants, who have been a 4-3 defense since the mid-1990's, want to switch to a 3-4 at this time?
Add to it, as others have pointed out, the lack of any credible LB unit, and that the Giants have invested $$$ in JPP and OV, 2 definitive 4-3 DEs, and this makes not sense.

How about we get the front 4 to play up to their contracts and/or draft status as a means of getting the defense to perform better? I know, crazy idea.
I was laughing.  
Painless62 : 11/17/2017 3:42 pm : link
JPP and pass rusher. He is a huge waste of money no matter the scheme. At least as a 3-4 DE he isn’t expected to be the same pass rusher. If he is motivated he can be decent against the run. Vernon is probably athletic enough to play 3-4 LB and has the size. Kennard, Goodson Vernon and tbd linebacker can work. Bromley and Thomas with JPP at ends. We have 2 redundant but solid NT. Not bad idea
In a 3-4  
mrvax : 11/17/2017 4:13 pm : link
if Snacks got injured, we really have no one as a viable backup NT.
Good to see  
JonC : 11/17/2017 4:15 pm : link
some who've never played the game before.
Any defensive scheme that requires good Linebackers  
Jimmy Googs : 11/17/2017 4:18 pm : link
to be on the field is not for us...
RE: dusting off this golden oldie, eh?  
HomerJones45 : 11/17/2017 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13694920 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Been a while since we've had a spate of "can they switch to a 3-4" posts.

Why fans of a team that hasn't had a star linebacker since Jessie Armstead 15-20 years ago think that a 3-4 is just the tonic is something I'll never understand.
Ditto. We can't find 1 semi-competent linebacker but hey, let's get a defense that needs 4 of them!
How does this come up every?  
Matt M. : 11/17/2017 4:20 pm : link
For years, the Giants have been lacking in the LB department. For years, they have done little to improve this position. In order for the 3-4 to be successfull, you need very good and athletic LBs. The Giants just don't have that. They may have the DL to pull it off, though.
we may need  
Dankbeerman : 11/17/2017 5:43 pm : link
to do a complete overhaul at LB anyway. JPP could play end in a 3-4 but it would make his contract situatuion worse. Kenard and goodson inside would be sub par.

Vernon would need to be shopped and I dont know how much we could get in return.

Then we need like 6 draft picks for the front 7 and we are set.
With the current roster ...  
FStubbs : 11/17/2017 7:50 pm : link
There's no way we could run a 3-4.

But with that same roster in shambles - if the Giants are going to rebuild and start moving in that direction, now is the time.
I don't get the love for a 3-4.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/17/2017 9:45 pm : link
The 4-3 is supposed to be better against passing-oriented offenses, which is the strength of the NFL nowadays.

But y'know, I just watch. If they run a 3-4 and have a dominant defense and win a couple of Super Bowls, I'll be happy. (Oh wait, that happened.) If they run a 4-3 and have a dominant defense and win a couple of Super Bowls, I'll be happy. (Oh wait, that happened too.)
don't have the personel  
micky : 11/17/2017 10:10 pm : link
plus it would be a time consuming change (Getting right personel)

key to a 3-4 is NT. with lot gap responsibilities by front 3 . for lbers

lbers they would have to totally revamp.

not like you can snap your fingers and vola!! change

Our LB's suck, our DL is fairly good  
PatersonPlank : 11/17/2017 10:14 pm : link
so no
This topic  
darren in pdx : 11/17/2017 10:15 pm : link
comes up multiple times every year, don't think it's going to ever happen unless the next staff blows up everything.
RE: don't have the personel  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/17/2017 11:21 pm : link
In comment 13695437 micky said:
Quote:
plus it would be a time consuming change (Getting right personel)

key to a 3-4 is NT. with lot gap responsibilities by front 3 . for lbers

lbers they would have to totally revamp.

not like you can snap your fingers and vola!! change


If changing to a 3-4 is so time consuming in terms of adjustment and personnel, then how were the Rams able to do it overnight?

Jeff Fisher was running his defensive stuff for years and Wade Phillips came in fresh this year with his 3-4 and they have been able to advance forward and Aaron Donald is still wrecking games on the interior defensive line. Robert Quinn moved to OLB and Mark Barron was converted from safety to one of their LB's.

The idea that the Giants are married to a specific defensive system and have no flexibility speaks to an almost flawed philosophy of building a quality roster, which then relies on specific players never getting injured otherwise they are screwed.

No you need another DE or 2  
bc4life : 11/19/2017 11:05 am : link
and stay with 4-3. Snacks and Tomlinson could be best T combo in league. You need someone to replace JPP. Moss is a plus.
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