Josh Allen

By the time we get closer to the draft, stock goes up for these guys. Trading down ensures losing out on the player.

I think he has the most potential

he has to be "your guy" and not some consolation prize.

Both scream prototypical pocket NFL QB. Thats where it ends.

Underwhelming is one word to describe his collegiate career. He's been downright lost. You look at every statistical analytic that measures HS and collegiate production for QBs the last 50 years and Allen isnt even in the zip code.

I know some people see him as a first round pick. I don't. I also don't see Lamar Jackson as a first rounder. Exciting player at times, But I don't think he's an NFL QB.

but he’s my favorite. You can throw the statistics out the window with regards to Allen because his supporting cast is among the worst that I’ve ever seen, and that’s relative even to his poor conference. Wyoming came into today sitting at 7-3, a record it had no business sniffing having lost literally all of last season’s production to graduation. Allen is a player that a scout can really gain valuable perspective by actually watching his play rather than by surfing his box scores.

I’ll add that Allen was announced first during this afternoon’s Senior Day festivities at Wyoming, a near telltale sign of his intention to forego his senior year of eligibility.

In comment 13695944 BurberryManning said:

Quote:

but he’s my favorite. You can throw the statistics out the window with regards to Allen because his supporting cast is among the worst that I’ve ever seen, and that’s relative even to his poor conference. Wyoming came into today sitting at 7-3, a record it had no business sniffing having lost literally all of last season’s production to graduation. Allen is a player that a scout can really gain valuable perspective by actually watching his play rather than by surfing his box scores. I’ll add that Allen was announced first during this afternoon’s Senior Day festivities at Wyoming, a near telltale sign of his intention to forego his senior year of eligibility.

This isn't a small sample size. This is more than 50 years of of the NFL draft, spanning thousands of prospects. Lots of those QBs have had poor supporting casts and have still found a way to be productive and win. Including our very own boy from Ole Miss.

Allen hasn't done that. Ever. Couple that with the simplistic offense he runs and I'm reading he never lives up to his draft slot.

.

In comment 13695976 Sy'56 said:

Quote:

.

End of story....

This guy is more Phil Simms. Hard worker, tough, big arm. The most upside in the draft. He is nothing like Jay Cutler

Take him. Take him when you can.

Take him. Take him when you can. If you think he is your guy

His low completion percentage concerns me. I hope the Giants come away with either Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen.

In comment 13695976 Sy'56 said:

Quote:

.

Explain further please.
Accuracy? Attitude? Work ethic? Progressions?
I like Mayfield so I'm neutral.. But would like to know how the comparison to Cutler.
Thanks Sy56.

Rosen
Darnold
Jackson
Mayfield
Allen
Falk

Playing where he does is going to hurt him in the draft.

Maybe the important comps are vs prior years qbs that are now more proven, or not, value wise.

Giants are in an unusual position. Whereas first and second third picks often go to teams without quality QBs at all, we have a few years wiggle room on that, given Manning possibly more, given Webb. Smith.

Flexibility is good.

In comment 13696112 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

Maybe the important comps are vs prior years qbs that are now more proven, or not, value wise. Giants are in an unusual position. Whereas first and second third picks often go to teams without quality QBs at all, we have a few years wiggle room on that, given Manning possibly more, given Webb. Smith. Flexibility is good.

We already have a developmental guy on the roster who's never had to make any reads. We aren't investing a premium pick on another raw developmental QB.

Just isn't happening.

I was a GM with a high pick and needed a QB I’d go Rosen, and I’d try everything I could to make that happen. Franchise QB most important thing.

In comment 13695944 BurberryManning said:

Quote:

but he’s my favorite. You can throw the statistics out the window with regards to Allen because his supporting cast is among the worst that I’ve ever seen, and that’s relative even to his poor conference. Wyoming came into today sitting at 7-3, a record it had no business sniffing having lost literally all of last season’s production to graduation. Allen is a player that a scout can really gain valuable perspective by actually watching his play rather than by surfing his box scores. I’ll add that Allen was announced first during this afternoon’s Senior Day festivities at Wyoming, a near telltale sign of his intention to forego his senior year of eligibility.

^This. He's much better than Jay Cutler was coming out of college. Like everyone else, I'm not ready to make a final judgment, but right now I'd give him a first round grade.

Sleeper QB: Kurt Benkert, UVA.

In comment 13695949 Modus Operandi said:

Quote:

In comment 13695944 BurberryManning said: Quote: but he’s my favorite. You can throw the statistics out the window with regards to Allen because his supporting cast is among the worst that I’ve ever seen, and that’s relative even to his poor conference. Wyoming came into today sitting at 7-3, a record it had no business sniffing having lost literally all of last season’s production to graduation. Allen is a player that a scout can really gain valuable perspective by actually watching his play rather than by surfing his box scores. I’ll add that Allen was announced first during this afternoon’s Senior Day festivities at Wyoming, a near telltale sign of his intention to forego his senior year of eligibility. This isn't a small sample size. This is more than 50 years of of the NFL draft, spanning thousands of prospects. Lots of those QBs have had poor supporting casts and have still found a way to be productive and win. Including our very own boy from Ole Miss. Allen hasn't done that. Ever. Couple that with the simplistic offense he runs and I'm reading he never lives up to his draft slot.

I always respect your opinion, MO. What statistical analysis are you referring to? I’d be interested to dig into the particulars because I’ve yet to be convinced that many aspects of football data have been made digestible to much of a predictive extent.

I’m a huge fan of “logic” and quantifiable measures of performance evaluation in sports but Allen has become a pet project of sorts for me, because (IMO) he represents that rare talent where the eye-ball test really is imperative in ascertaining his ability to exceed at the next level. I place a premium on accuracy and field vision when evaluating quarterbacks but I am convinced that Allen’s work ethic, toughness, athleticism, and otherworldly arm talent provide an incredible blank canvas for NFL coaches to work with.

As it pertains to the statistics, I invite you to look at the attached clip. This pass amounted to another incompletion on the boxscore against a ranked opponent but given any talent to catch a football it would’ve represented one of the more impressive throws that any QB prospect could possibly make....eyes down field, pocket presence, athleticism, arm strength, accuracy, you name it


Incomplete in the box score but 6 in our hearts - ( New Window )

in this draft. Has some skills similar to Dan Marino. Can throw the ball on a line everywhere with a beautiful release. He’s just stuck on a team with ordinary talent.

Highest ceiling but maybe the riskiest because of Wyoming and competition factor. Watch some highlights on YouTube. Some of his throws are stunning.

Someone mentioned Benkert above. Agreed - a sleeper. And so is Thorsen of Northwestern. May not come out but he’s very interesting with his pocket presence and ability to make a lot of throws...

Allen's my favorite QB in the draft. He has an all-time type arm

Josh Allen winds up going to the Jets and Josh Rosen to the Giants (but not in that order).

I think Rosen is going to be a great one. And the secret to his success will be his tennis background. It's the perfect alternative sport if you want to grow up to be an NFL QB. And the same goes for soccer as the perfect alternative sport for anyone who wants to grow up to be an NFL WR, ergo OBJ's ability to dominate beyond what his measurables would suggest.

I think when the smoke clears, the consensus will be that there is a huge gap between Rosen and the next best QB in the draft. The Giants will need to have the first pick if they are going to land him.

1) He has quarterbacked some poor teams that have underachieved what their talent level would suggest. UCLA’s recruiting classes have consistently ranked in the top 15ish range but they’re on the verge of posting consecutive losing seasons for the first time in quite a while.

2) Rosen appears rather immobile. The Giants have one of the best pocketpassers of all time and we’ve seen how the lack of mobility hampers an offense built around a pourous line, furthermore we’ve seen how pure pocketpassers become even more distressed as they age. Rosen wouldn’t represent much of a departure from the style of QB play we’ve enjoyed for the past 14 years, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but might not fit what ownership wants going forward.

3) Brash attitude....we’ve heard the stories, both what has been published and has been word of mouth, and we all get the picture- Rosen is a smart, rich kid that some feel comes off as entitled. It’s not as big of a deal to me as it may be for some but in the NYC market this issue will be amplified.

In my estimation, Rosen is the safest bet of the top QBs to become a solid starter but I prefer the upside that Allen brings.

I'll take that from Rosen.

Jim Mora is a terrible coach with a bad defense

The other stuff is all scuttlebutt. And Eli was a rich kid also.

What has Allen ever done? Webb has the same size and arm, and has played a lot better in college.