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Josh Rosen/ Darnold/ Mayfiled

Alwaysblue22 : 11/19/2017 11:19 am
Josh Rosen looks and throws like Eli. He is an Eli Manning Clone. If the Giants wind up with Rosen it will be 12 more years of Eli. That means the Giants would need to build a fortress OL around this guy or forget about winning a Super Bowl. Building such a line is difficult to do. I do not think that any team in the NFL has succeeded in doing so. The Cowboys come close but how many times did Prescott get sacked last week? The defenses in the NFL are just too fast today. The QB has to be mobile and willing to run hard at times to move the chains Rosen has a great arm, is accurate and makes quick reads...but does not have the mobility that I think is needed in the NFL today. Darnold makes awkward hand offs and seems to take stutter steps when he runs. He appears awkward to me in the pocket. He needs to stay in School to improve his mechanics and is not yet ready for the NFL. He is a project at this moment. I even like Webb better than him right now. So who does that leave?... The guy who is accurate with a strong Arm, mobile, makes quick reads , moves FLUIDLY and evades the rush, makes few mistakes ...his name is Baker Mayfield. I believe that he will take an NFL team to the promised land in short order. Many will not agree because they soak up what the draft "gurus" say. Based on the speed of the game in the NFL today Mayfield, who is consider by many as the best college player in the game today, has the skills that you want. He is more than a QB.. he happens to be a dam good football player, a leader and he shows fire on the field. Mayfield stays in the pocket and does not move out too quickly like Josh Allen does. But he will not hesitate to run the ball himself. Whenever you need to choose between a technically skilled player, and a skillful player who is also a good football player you take the football player with the skill.This is just my take. If I was forced to choose between Darnold and Rosen, I would take Rosen, after I fire Jerry Reese before the draft, or we will not have an OL to accommodate Rosen. Hopefully Reese will not be the GM after this season, and there will be no dilemma, no matter who we select.
Holy shit what an awful  
Jon in NYC : 11/19/2017 11:23 am : link
post. I love that the crux of the argument against Rosen is that he's an Eli clone and you can't win a Super Bowl with a QB like that....WHEN ELI MANNING HAS WON TWO FUCKING SUPER BOWLS.

Holy crap.
The game has changed  
annexOPR : 11/19/2017 11:28 am : link
Get a QB that can actually move - watch broken plays / sacks turn into positive yardage

You donít need a Vick/Cam/Kaep type - but someone who isnít a statue would be nice

Especially given the current state of this OL
Watching that game I also thought Rosen  
Del Shofner : 11/19/2017 11:30 am : link
reminds one of Eli a lot. Donít know about the other points though.
Ha, Rosen is the only one of those 3 I'd actually draft in Rd 1  
PatersonPlank : 11/19/2017 11:32 am : link
I have questions about Mayfields size, arm, and attitude, and its clear Darnold isn't ready. Even Herbstreet was saying that.
Another Baker Mayfield bandwagon jumper  
larryflower37 : 11/19/2017 11:33 am : link
I prefer L. Jackson but I can see why Rosen and Darnold are at the top of most boards.
But this is a stupid argument to make against Rosen (that he is like a HOF 2 time SB MVP) so we should pick Mayfield.
Yep, I agree Rosen  
section125 : 11/19/2017 11:36 am : link
look very much like Eli. Weird.

That is not bad, really, is it? But I do wonder if a more mobile QB is needed in today's game. But, and I shudder to say this, I agree with Paterson Plank on who I'd draft in round 1...It does likely mean the line has to be completely rebuilt.
I donít see much similarity to Eli  
Sammo85 : 11/19/2017 11:37 am : link
Rosen has a better arm, better velocity, and deep ball than Eli. Heís also a bit more athletic.

Outside of the pocket passing and not being too mobile I donít get the similarities but to be fair everybody sees it through different lenses.
RE: Holy shit what an awful  
Joey from GlenCove : 11/19/2017 11:39 am : link
In comment 13696616 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
post. I love that the crux of the argument against Rosen is that he's an Eli clone and you can't win a Super Bowl with a QB like that....WHEN ELI MANNING HAS WON TWO FUCKING SUPER BOWLS.

Holy crap.


Lmao. And Bradyís won some too I think
Rosen  
WillVAB : 11/19/2017 11:39 am : link
Is the only QB worthy of a top 5 pick.
RE: Holy shit what an awful  
njm : 11/19/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13696616 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
post. I love that the crux of the argument against Rosen is that he's an Eli clone and you can't win a Super Bowl with a QB like that....WHEN ELI MANNING HAS WON TWO FUCKING SUPER BOWLS.

Holy crap.


What do you expect from a November 2017? They'll be coming out of the woodwork this year.
You spelled MAYFLIED wrong.  
Ivan15 : 11/19/2017 11:41 am : link
I thought that was going to be a legitimate post comparing 3 QBs but it turned into another shot at Reese.

And why ignore the fact that the Dallas o-line had to be revamped and was without the LT who may be the best in the league.

It isnít impossible to build a good o-line, just mpossible to build a line with sustaining depth.
Rosen/ Darnold , Mayfield  
Alwaysblue22 : 11/19/2017 11:44 am : link
My Point is the game has changed and I now prefer a QB like Mayfield. But I did not say i would not take Rosen. But Rosen, like Eli now needs a lot of protection. Defenses are faster then they were in 2011( that was SIX years ago) when Eli won his last Super Bowl.And they keep getting faster. Notice how many FRESHMAN from high school now start in College.(unheard of a few short years ago) This is how quickly the game has progressed in terms of strength and speed. Rosen and Reese cannot co-exist in the same organization for sure. Mayfield can play for anyone, including Reese, at a high level.
Josh Rosen was clearly  
johnnyb : 11/19/2017 11:46 am : link
the best QB on the field last night and deserving to be drafter high. I would be skeptical of investing a high pick on Mayfield. While his attitude and antics may play well in college, he will spend a lot of time explaining himself in the pros. He is a ticking time bomb. Darnold should stay in school- he is not ready.

I don't think the Giants go QB and focus on other areas of need (there are many).
After watching Rosen/Darnold last night,  
Doomster : 11/19/2017 11:55 am : link
how much better are they than Webb was his senior year?

And yet, Webb just holds a clipboard, and Geno gets to show what he can't do....
RE: I donít see much similarity to Eli  
Del Shofner : 11/19/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13696639 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Rosen has a better arm, better velocity, and deep ball than Eli. Heís also a bit more athletic.

Outside of the pocket passing and not being too mobile I donít get the similarities but to be fair everybody sees it through different lenses.


I think some of it is demeanor too ...
Giants Draft  
Alwaysblue22 : 11/19/2017 11:59 am : link
I would also not be surprised if the G-men do not draft another QB in April. They may not even be in the top 5 of the selection process. But the way this season has floundered, the odds are still in their favor to be in the top 5 That would allow them to take a player at any position other than QB to fill holes on the line or on defense. The game is still won in the trenches and there is certainly a glaring need to bolster that OL. I think we could also used a top notch safety to compliment Collins, and give him some competition. And of course we need Speed at Linebacker to cover the TEs who always burn us. And a new GM before the draft.
RE: Josh Rosen was clearly  
Sammo85 : 11/19/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13696669 johnnyb said:
Quote:
the best QB on the field last night and deserving to be drafter high. I would be skeptical of investing a high pick on Mayfield. While his attitude and antics may play well in college, he will spend a lot of time explaining himself in the pros. He is a ticking time bomb. Darnold should stay in school- he is not ready.

I don't think the Giants go QB and focus on other areas of need (there are many).


It is possible this occurs. I think the Giants want the next QB but if itís not their they wonít force it. However, thereís no guarantee Webb is going to be the next guy. If he canít make it we could be in for a Jets like carousel of misery at the position and needing another awful season or two to get a chance at a good QB prospect.
Rosen reminds  
cokeduplt : 11/19/2017 12:04 pm : link
Me more of Brady or a talker Brees than Eli. Heís very accurate and has a laser arm. Mayfield has to many question marks for me; size arm strength.
This argument that Rosen is immobile is incorrect  
montanagiant : 11/19/2017 12:06 pm : link
While not as mobile as Darnold or Mayfield he is more than adequate for the NFL
RE: Rosen reminds  
Jay on the Island : 11/19/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13696694 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Me more of Brady or a talker Brees than Eli. Heís very accurate and has a laser arm. Mayfield has to many question marks for me; size arm strength.

From watching Rosen I saw a little bit of Brady and Matt Ryan. I thought that Darnold looked like a more athletic Eli.
RE: Rosen reminds  
WillVAB : 11/19/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13696694 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Me more of Brady or a talker Brees than Eli. Heís very accurate and has a laser arm. Mayfield has to many question marks for me; size arm strength.


I was thinking about this earlier. I think the Brady comparison is solid.
It's funny  
Jay on the Island : 11/19/2017 12:11 pm : link
Brady was a 6th round pick because teams thought he wasn't athletic enough to be an NFL QB.
I feel like you should have to be on this board like 6 months before  
vafian22 : 11/19/2017 12:34 pm : link
You can post. It would seriously cut down on the number of ass-hats.
After more antics from Mayfield this weekend  
Matt M. : 11/19/2017 12:38 pm : link
I'm not as high on him any longer.
Idk when I see Rosen throw  
Bleedblue10 : 11/19/2017 1:00 pm : link
I see Jay Cutler not Eli. I mean that just about his mechanics and arm strength. Hopefully if he ends up here heís not a complete POS like Cutler.
Rather have Maker Bayfield  
jeff57 : 11/19/2017 1:06 pm : link
.
RE: Idk when I see Rosen throw  
mdc1 : 11/19/2017 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13696779 Bleedblue10 said:
Quote:
I see Jay Cutler not Eli. I mean that just about his mechanics and arm strength. Hopefully if he ends up here heís not a complete POS like Cutler.


This and Jeff George. He would really fit in at Dallas with big oline or he will be running for his life here.
Rosen has a stronger arm than Eli  
Vanzetti : 11/19/2017 6:40 pm : link
And throws a better spiral but otherwise he is a lot like Eli.

Darold has good mobility and passes well outside the pocket but I think he is going to be one of those guys who plays ten years but is never elite

Mayfield is a typical mid to late first round pick. Might be the next Aaron Rogers but is much more likely the next Jim Harbaugh or Teddy Bridgewater

To me, Rosen is the best bet to be s HOFer and the only one I would take over just keeping Eli for the rest of his career
A lot happened this past weekend with these 3  
Peppers : 11/19/2017 8:18 pm : link
Rosen will be the #1 pick (Browns)

Darnold will stay another year. Everyone around him should be telling him he isn't ready.

Mayfields antics will seriously hurt his draft stock.
If people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/19/2017 8:44 pm : link
are coming down hard on Mayfield for his on the field gestures, they really are going to have more issues with Rosen.

There are quite a few scouts that have already and will recommend to stay away from him because of the numerous character flaws. You hear the name Ryan Leaf thrown around a lot.
Those of you wanting to just have Webb  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/20/2017 5:21 pm : link
how many full games of his have you actually watched? I don't think you've really scrutinized him as much as Darnold/Rosen.
RE: If people..  
jeff57 : 11/20/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13698321 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are coming down hard on Mayfield for his on the field gestures, they really are going to have more issues with Rosen.

There are quite a few scouts that have already and will recommend to stay away from him because of the numerous character flaws. You hear the name Ryan Leaf thrown around a lot.


And what's the source for that?
None of these guys stand out to me  
Go Terps : 11/20/2017 5:58 pm : link
And I don't think any of the three is as good as Lamar Jackson. He's the guy getting shit done more regularly against better competition.
Mayfield won't start Saturday because of the  
jeff57 : 11/20/2017 6:05 pm : link
Crotch grabbing incident.
The sources are..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/20/2017 7:51 pm : link
scouts. Here's what I can find printed, but the chatter out there is strong. When you are being compared to Leaf or Manziel, it isn't good, and those are some comparisons I hear when personnel guys discuss him:

Quote:
One anonymous AFC scouting director isnít too keen on Rosen.

ďRosen has a ton of ability but tons of issues, like dedication, to work through.

A second executive, also from the AFC, has a similar take.

ē Rosen: ďHeís the one I know the bestóheís got size, athletic tools, velocity. Heís just a mess off the field and heís coming off the injury. He needs to grow up, but the talent is off the charts.Ē

The phrases ďtons of issuesĒ and ďa mess off the fieldĒ suggest a growing narrative. Itís always difficult to assess the validity of these claims without knowing what they are based on or the availability of any specifics. We do know that Rosen had a hot tub in his dorm, but had to remove it. He cares not for university housing code, apparently.
If it's Darnold or Rosen, I definitely prefer Darnold  
Go Terps : 11/20/2017 8:04 pm : link
But I like Jackson more than him. I don't know why Jackson isn't getting mentioned with these two guys...he's been significantly more productive than either against better competition.

About 10,000 total yards and 90 total TDs the last two seasons...that's pretty damn good.
Mayfield will not be drafted in the first round...  
bw in dc : 11/20/2017 10:03 pm : link
If they all declare, it will be Rose, Allen, Darnold, and Jackson.

Aside from some romantic intangible people think he has, his arm isn't that great, he's not prototypical size, and he has character issues. If he goes in the first round, it's a panic play, a reach.

Rosen throws the ball much better than Eli at this stage. Technically, he's very sound with the way he snaps through the ball and gets a very tight spiral. Whether he has Eli's once big-game-moxie remains to be seen.

Further, it is fascinating how this one Saturday night game has become the final piece in the comparison. Indeed, Rosen played better for one game, and I am in the camp he is a better prospect, but Darnold has a built solid resume that has some outstanding performances -see last year's Rose Bowl against PSU. Had he declared last year, he would have been the #1 pick. So there is plenty of evidence for both camps...

I continue to be amazed how Josh Allen gets such short shrift around here. He is easily the best thrower of the football in this draft, last year's and the year before that, including Wentz. The guy has been blessed with a Marino like release and this natural velocity you can't teach. I have little doubt that if he played at UCLA, USC, Bama, Ohio State, etc, he'd been squarely in the Heisman race. That Wyoming team would lose to the best team in the FCS - James Madison. Allen is the real deal, and he'll prove it at the combine and individual workouts...

Matt Miller's rankings  
jeff57 : 11/21/2017 8:58 am : link
Usually knows his stuff. Consensus seems to be that the best non-QBs available are Barkley, Chubb. Fitzpatrick and Nelson. All at positions where the Giants need help.
Link - ( New Window )
So after the win Sunday not sure why we  
bhill410 : 11/21/2017 11:13 am : link
Are still talking about Rosen and Darnold. In all likelihood the browns will take one (wrong one) and the 49ers will trade out of the 2 hole to a team with a qb need. That leads Allen and Mayfield and the question becomes whether the giants think they are markedly better than Webb. Problem is we wonít know what Webb is because this franchise (and message board) is too obsessed with a meaningless streak than to worry about long term needs of franchise. Hell we canít even cut a backup to enable him to be active on game day.
RE: The game has changed  
weaverpsu : 11/21/2017 1:13 pm : link
HAHAHAHAHAH, the game has changed. People have been saying that for years. Vick was supposed to single handedly change the game. Whoops, that didn't happen.

Have you heard of QB's like Drew Brees and Tom Brady? What a dumb post.

In comment 13696617 annexOPR said:
Quote:
Get a QB that can actually move - watch broken plays / sacks turn into positive yardage

You donít need a Vick/Cam/Kaep type - but someone who isnít a statue would be nice

Especially given the current state of this OL
Here's an idea  
weaverpsu : 11/21/2017 1:17 pm : link
Keep the best QB the Giants have had in most of our lifetimes, and draft a stud like Barkley, multiple OL, and more OL in Free Agency. Drafting a QB in the first round, says we are rebuilding but we shouldn't be.
I don't want a QB at the top of the draft,.....  
Bluenatic : 11/21/2017 3:12 pm : link
..... though I am intrigued by Lamar Jackson's freakish athletic talent. I say use the high pick to snag the best available player regardless of position. Give me two more years of Eli and then hand the reins over to Webb in 2020.
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