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Eli Manningís 40th game winning drive..

Sean : 11/19/2017 4:25 pm
I know the season has been brutal, but Iím happy for Eli & Spags. The team fought hard. Also happy for McAdoo who has been destroyed everywhere.
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Youíre telling on yourself  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 11:23 pm : link
But ok.

Anyone completely dismissive of the feelings someone in my position can have about this dynamic just doesnít possess any ability for one second to see a point of view that sits outside your bubble. Thatís fine though. I donít expect you to have any earthly grasp on matters like this and how conversations like this can come off a certain way to certain people. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss them speaks to your own shortcomings

Only thing brain dead here is your ability to grasp any nuanced point. Iím not calling anyone a racist but denying dynamics such as this can exist even on a subconscious level is indeed the new racism
RE: Elii gets defended because he  
ajr2456 : 11/19/2017 11:47 pm : link
In comment 13698314 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
Warrants that loyalty. And his prime years have absolutely been wasted on the likes of Larry Donnell. Excuse me if I could care less if a Donnell gets dumped on while Eki gets defended and celebrated.


Prime years throwing to Donnell? He was throwing to Donnell when he was 35
I must be forgetting the year  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 12:01 am : link
Where Larry Donnell was our primary receiver. Which year was that again? You know, since you're absolutely sure we wasted so many of Eli's prime years.
RE: Youíre telling on yourself  
schabadoo : 11/20/2017 12:11 am : link
In comment 13698536 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
But ok.

Anyone completely dismissive of the feelings someone in my position can have about this dynamic just doesnít possess any ability for one second to see a point of view that sits outside your bubble. Thatís fine though. I donít expect you to have any earthly grasp on matters like this and how conversations like this can come off a certain way to certain people. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss them speaks to your own shortcomings

Only thing brain dead here is your ability to grasp any nuanced point. Iím not calling anyone a racist but denying dynamics such as this can exist even on a subconscious level is indeed the new racism


Hell of a crutch you have there.
RE: Im a fan of the Giants  
montanagiant : 11/20/2017 12:31 am : link
In comment 13698370 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
Who happens to also be incredibly proud of Jerry Reese, the doors he has opened potentially for others, and the class he has conducted himself with as gm of my team. But even above all that, the fact that he has his hands all over two Sb winners. Yet on this thread he is indirectly being painted as a stooge who let Ei down. He has represented us very well. The same people who want to act like itís sacreigious to do anything other than bow before Eli will knock Jerry Reese every chance they get. They both deserve credit when things go well and blame when they donít.

Iím not accusing anyone of being overtly racist, but if you canít see how someone in my position can find this unseemly then youíre just one of those people blind to the feelings of others who donít share your life experiences. Period

There we go pulling that Racist card out of your ass because you have nothing else. Seriously what an ignorant ass ploy to use
RE: I must be forgetting the year  
montanagiant : 11/20/2017 12:32 am : link
In comment 13698559 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
Where Larry Donnell was our primary receiver. Which year was that again? You know, since you're absolutely sure we wasted so many of Eli's prime years.

Must have been during the years we where we had the best running game in the NFL for half a decade
Ok letís use pro football reference  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 7:43 am : link
Just to educate some fools with horrible memories

From 2004-2010 the Giants ran for 14,972 yards. The only team who ran for more yards was Atlanta because their qb was a once in a lifetime
Scrambler. The Giants also led the nfl in ypc in that span at 4.62

Thatís actually 7 seasons, longer than half a decade. Yet idiots who have heir head so far up Eliís ass wonít even concede facts. Facts are in this span our qb was a secondary fear for opposing defenses
And with that  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 7:51 am : link
There is no need to participate in this any further. I know the demo around here, I know how that demo can be regarding any conversation that even injects any shred of race even tangentially. Fact is the flagrant disrespect shown to Jerry Reese here is absolutely deplorable considering what he has done for the franchise. The same people who get on their high horse about a critical syllable uttered about Eli are all about the bash Reese bandwagon including ignoring blatant facts. Iíve been called a crackheas and an idiot for simply stating factually that the Giants running game in the first 6-7 years of Eliís career was amazing. Iíve heard before Beckham he never had a wr other than play. Or that the defense that carried us in 2 Sb runs has sucked. Poor Eli getting hamstrung by the idiot Jerry Reese. People keep telling on themselves
Quick question, who was the GM until 2006....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:29 am : link
that put together that offensive line?
You pulling the racist card is absolute bullsh-t.....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:35 am : link
Chris Mara gets just as much sh-t as Reese for his hand in the drafting. Ben McAdoo gets an equal amount of sh-t.

Reese was great and nobody ever gave him sh-t prior to 2012. Remember "In Reese We Trust"? That was a motto that was repeated here nearly unanimously for years.

When the O-line went to sh-t, so did the team.

Ernie Accorsi built the line that we rode to two championships if you want to talk facts. Jerry Reese did not draft or free agent sign a single one of those guys that contributed to the 14,000 rushing yards offensive line you referenced earlier.

Reese gets sh-t on for his job performance. For you to bring race into the equation is nothing more than a witch hunt. Ridiculous.
You're actually the deplorable one for making a sweeping accusation  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:38 am : link
like that.
Jerry Reese is great at drafting skill positions.....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:48 am : link
but for building the trenches, where I believe football games are won and lost, he has been poor.

IMO, the Giants decline is directly associated with the decline of the offensive line, and the defensive line ain't been that great in awhile either, until the massive spending spree a season ago.

That is directly where Reese failed. And it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
If you think Reese didnít start making draft day calls  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 8:52 am : link
And have personnel Input prior to 2007, then you simply donít know a damn thing about the inner workings of the Giants in that time period. From
About 2003 onward he was running the draft, well before he was named GM. Thatís pretty common knowledge.

And telling me that mcadoo gets crap doesnít say anything. Heís never accomplished a damn thing for the franchise, I like the two time Sb winning gm who we like to trash at every turn and deny history just to prop up your hero. Your Eli worship in particular is a bit creepy Britt
Are you saying Coughlin didn't get sh-t also?  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:55 am : link
He's a two time winning coach. He got plenty of sh-t on his way out, during the time period from 2012 to 2015.

You're accusation doesn't hold water. Over half the damn team is black, and we love them, but we hate Reese because he's black?

Get the f-ck out of here. Jerry Reese was highly, HIGHLY regarded around here for a long time. But all of the sudden we realized he was black so now we don't like him?
You think you're identifying closet racists over their disdain...  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:56 am : link
for a football GM.
That's what's f-cking creepy.  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 8:56 am : link
.
Never called anyone a racist  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 10:27 am : link
I said as a black man I cant help but feel a certain way about some of the dialogue surrounding him. Does make me uncomfortable. Donít expect you to understand. Donít give a shit if you do. Thereís a large gap between that though and calling people racists for being critical of Reese. I can be critical of him too. The way people lose their shit over someone of a different background voicing these sensibilities and sentiments says a lot to be honest. Iím proud of Reese as the gm of my team and his significant place in history as something of a pioneer along with guys like Ozzie newsome. Just the way it is. To you heís just a gm

And nah I still think your Eli man crush far dwarfs anything here in terms of creepiness
You seem to keep ignoring the fact that Reese was pretty  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 10:37 am : link
much unanimously praised here prior to 2012... What changed? The success of his team or his skin color.

This is a football message board where people are discussing/being critical of the person responsible for the roster of their favorite team.

In regards to Eli, the discussion is about the failure to protect the franchise quarterback in what should have been the prime years of his career.

Quite frankly, race has no place in this discussion. You injected it. Additionally, you are doing Reese a disservice by doing so.
Nobody cares if you're black, white, Puerto Rican, or Haitian....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 10:39 am : link
or if your name is Phife Dawg from the Zulu nation....

We're all Giants fans here.
RE: You seem to keep ignoring the fact that Reese was pretty  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13698994 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
much unanimously praised here prior to 2012... What changed? The success of his team or his skin color.

This is a football message board where people are discussing/being critical of the person responsible for the roster of their favorite team.

Few, a sizeable contingent BBI credited those two SB victories to Accorsi. I know, because I've been fighting that battle here for years.

In regards to Eli, the discussion is about the failure to protect the franchise quarterback in what should have been the prime years of his career.

Quite frankly, race has no place in this discussion. You injected it. Additionally, you are doing Reese a disservice by doing so.
Oops..  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 10:40 am : link
Few, a sizeable contingent here have credited the success we've had to Accorsi. The rest credit Coughlin. I know, because I've been fighting this battle on BBI for years.
SO why don't you show us some examples  
montanagiant : 11/20/2017 10:41 am : link
of this "dialogue" you claim is bothersome?

You keep playing the race card, well step up and show us this offensive stuff.
In Reese We Trust....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 10:41 am : link
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.
RE: In Reese We Trust....  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13699004 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.


Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
RE: RE: In Reese We Trust....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13699039 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13699004 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.



Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".


If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.
I do think Reese is wildly disrespected on here..  
Sean : 11/20/2017 11:00 am : link
Iíve seen him referred to a loser. That is tough to take. The entire organization deserves blame for the recent bad years & obviously a lot falls on Reese. But this idea that Reese is incompetent is absurd. Reese will absolutely get another GM job in this league quickly if a change is made. And lousy offensive line play is not unique to the Giants, this is a league wide issue.
Everybody is wildly disrespected....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:03 am : link
when you have like 5/6 losing seasons.

Manning is wildly disrespected and has his handful of "creepy" defenders.

Coughlin was wildly disrespected and had his handful of defenders.

Reese? No different.
RE: RE: RE: In Reese We Trust....  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13699050 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13699039 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


In comment 13699004 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.



Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".



If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.


I didn't suggest that is was.

The blame for the organizational failures the last several years is shared. Reese deserves a good part of the blame for drafting poorly. Coughlin for coaching poorly. Eli for QB poorly. Ownership for bringing in a guy who wasn't ready and promoting him to HC. Keep going...

However, if you stay on the site long enough, you'll find a slew of posters not only ready to absolve Coughlin and Eli but throw out nonsensical shit like, "If only Reese had given Eli some weapons."

Mind boggling.
OMG  
Thegratefulhead : 11/20/2017 11:11 am : link
I love Eli but he threw for 200 yards and the offense needed overtime to score 12 points....12 fucking points We won because the defense did not quit because of the offensive ineptitude yesterday. Let's not prop up the offense.
RE: RE: RE: RE: In Reese We Trust....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13699078 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13699050 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 13699039 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


In comment 13699004 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.



Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".



If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.



I didn't suggest that is was.

The blame for the organizational failures the last several years is shared. Reese deserves a good part of the blame for drafting poorly. Coughlin for coaching poorly. Eli for QB poorly. Ownership for bringing in a guy who wasn't ready and promoting him to HC. Keep going...

However, if you stay on the site long enough, you'll find a slew of posters not only ready to absolve Coughlin and Eli but throw out nonsensical shit like, "If only Reese had given Eli some weapons."

Mind boggling.


Buy you agree with the guy who does say it's related to his race.

It's not. It has to do with people's opinions on who's responsible for what, and philosophies on how a roster should be built.

My opinion is pretty simple. The GM is responsible for the roster. The team went to sh-t when the O-line went to sh-t. Therefore, I'm annoyed at the GM, and his failure over the course of 6 years and counting to put just an average o-line out there. Period.
And I should say that I'm annoyed at the GM above everybody else....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:18 am : link
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.

It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
RE: And I should say that I'm annoyed at the GM above everybody else....  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13699093 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.

It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.


I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.

I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
RE: RE: And I should say that I'm annoyed at the GM above everybody else....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13699102 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13699093 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.

It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.



I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.

I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.


And IF that's true, he was held accountable and ultimately fired.

Are you implying that Reese is unfairly treated if he receives the same at the end of the season, or as it pertains to this conversation, that posters want him to be held accountable now?
Excuse me.... "retired".  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:25 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: And I should say that I'm annoyed at the GM above everybody else....  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13699107 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13699102 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


In comment 13699093 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.

It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.



I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.

I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.



And IF that's true, he was held accountable and ultimately fired.

Are you implying that Reese is unfairly treated if he receives the same at the end of the season, or as it pertains to this conversation, that posters want him to be held accountable now?


Not at all. I think I've seen enough at this point to favor firing everyone on down the line and replacing them.

The question is who do we replace them with?
A question for another thread....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:29 am : link
which we'll have a ton of miserable downtime to discuss over the next two months.
I never said criticism had to do with race  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 11:49 am : link
Iím absolutely positive that with some it does, you are being naive to suggest otherwise. I donít find that to be the case for the majority of his detractors though. Iím just saying as a black man who views Jerry Reese in a light beyond that as just a football GM I do think he deserves more respect than Iíve seen him get here, forget the fact that heís black his accomplishments speak for themselves and heís have another job in 5 minutes. Any gm can have a down run. Injuries have also hurt

Some of you just arenít going to understand, period. And thatís fine. Am I sensitive when it comes to criticism of him? Maybe. Do I think heís above it? Nope. But Iím immensely proud of his place in history as one of the initial pioneers in an executive position in this sport, and the success he has had. He is a dope opener along with guys like Ozzie newsome (another example of someone who shows that if you do this long enough, you can have a down period). He is helping to normalize a position in this industry for people who donít all look like bill polian, and thatís not a bad thing. Some of you will just always see him as a football gm and no more. I donít expect you to have feelings beyond that. But yes it pisses me off to see him trashed and painted as an albatross Eli has had to work around
Door opener  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 11:50 am : link
Not dope opener
I understand your position perfectly....  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 11:56 am : link
However, you are talking about two different things. Jerry Reese's place in history, and Jerry Reese's current job performance.

I didn't even feel compelled to respond until you started accusing people of "telling on themselves". What were they telling, exactly?
Britt  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 12:44 pm : link
Regarding telling on themselves

In my experience those who are quick to accuse you of accusing others of being racist or accuse you of playing the ďrace cardĒ just because of the mere mention of race to shut down any conversation..... well Iíll just leave it there. Not all mentions of race are ďplaying the raceĒ card. Iím half white. I have a beautiful white wife. I donít walk around thinking the worst of all white people. Far from it.... But those who are trigger happy to shut down any dialogue regarding even the mention of race... ok. Me mentioning that my race gives me a soft spot for Reese given his historic position and how I can sometimes find the piling on a bit unseemly isnít playing the race card. Didnít accuse anyone of being racist. All I did was voice my sensibilities, sensibilities that are going to be difficult to understand for a lot of people
Soooooooo  
BigBlueShock : 11/20/2017 4:10 pm : link
I guess we canít criticize Reese because heís black and you have a soft spot for him? Are you listening to yourself? He gets a lifetime job because you feel he opened doors? Come on man. Nobody is criticizing Reese because heís black and heís certainly not Teflon because heís black either.

There are people that think Reese should be fired. There are people that think he should stay. There are also people that shit all over Ernie Accorsi during his tenure and he was pretty successful too, no?

And for crying out loud, stop telling us all that we will never understand. Youíve said that 1000 times in this thread. What we do understand is that Reese is NOT being judged on his color and we arenít going to give him a pass because of his color either. We all appreciate whatís heís done as far as opening doors. But that is not what this should be all about and Iím kind of surprised that you want it be.
Itís about a guy who has built two Sb winners  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 4:21 pm : link
Within the last decade. You want him fired? Fine I guess. He will have another job in 5 seconds. Lots of things go into being a successful gm and with all of those moving parts that are involved if you preside over a team long enough you will have some dry periods. Look around at anyone who has done it for a long enough time. None of them crank out infinite success. The draft is a crapshoot. Some are better at it than others but it is prone to variance. Guys get injured too and that doesnít help. Did Reese suddenly get stupid at an age well before we should be questioning his faculties?

Luckily I think the Giants donít see it the way you do and will opt for stability with him at the helm and allow him to keep doing this
And by the way  
LatHarv83 : 11/20/2017 4:44 pm : link
My participation in this thread has never been about ďdonít fire Jerry Reese because heís some heroĒ. Itís about having his back when other posters paint him as an albatross Eli has had to work around. Thatís nonsense.
Oh hey  
Modus Operandi : 11/20/2017 4:46 pm : link
He's playing the old "in half white and have a beautiful white wife card".

Get em boys..
I see where LatHarv83 is coming from...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/20/2017 6:37 pm : link
We kill Reese for his performances, but some who do refuse to apply that same standard to Eli. They make excuses for him left and right.

I love Eli. I'm so happy about the win. I'm glad for Eli that he got another win and another game winning drive. He's all class and that's great.

But the offense sucks, and Eli is the biggest part of that suckitude. I think it's only fair to point that out, in the same way that it's fair to point out Reese's failures during his span as GM.

Where LatHarv83 has a point is that it appears some are applying a double standard, and it would be absurd to think that 100% of those who apply that double-standard are free of racial bias in doing so. It happens elsewhere, why not here?
....  
BrettNYG10 : 11/20/2017 6:38 pm : link
Coughlin and Eli are seen each week, with their faces most palpably associated with success. Reese is in the background. I think that's why we have much more affection for them than Reese.
Meh.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/20/2017 6:54 pm : link
I've been 'hard' on Eli (as his diehards will think) and I wanted TC fired before he actually got fired. I didn't start to come down on Reese until this season. I pretty much gave him a pass from 2012-2016, but that ends this season. So, it ain't race for me.


Reese has never had a winning personality.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/20/2017 7:28 pm : link
He's a terrible quote and routinely makes mistakes when he makes public statements about players and he's never gotten more polished at that.

I understand why people don't care for him, he's not exactly likable. That combined with what we can think of as his team-building philosophies, it's understandable that he doesn't have a large number of people willing to come to his defense
RE: I see where LatHarv83 is coming from...  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13699665 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
We kill Reese for his performances, but some who do refuse to apply that same standard to Eli. They make excuses for him left and right.

I love Eli. I'm so happy about the win. I'm glad for Eli that he got another win and another game winning drive. He's all class and that's great.

But the offense sucks, and Eli is the biggest part of that suckitude. I think it's only fair to point that out, in the same way that it's fair to point out Reese's failures during his span as GM.

Where LatHarv83 has a point is that it appears some are applying a double standard, and it would be absurd to think that 100% of those who apply that double-standard are free of racial bias in doing so. It happens elsewhere, why not here?


Wait a minute... You think Eli is the BIGGEST thing that's wrong with the offense? Not the offensive line, not the piss poor running game over the past five years, not the street free agent WR's playing right now, but Eli is the BIGGEST thing that's wrong?
I bet you'd have a hard time finding the biggest Eli bashers...  
Britt in VA : 11/20/2017 7:55 pm : link
to agree with that one...
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