The ability to win the game inside two minutes in the fourth quarter, which he always has been able to do His entire career. Glad we saw a glimpse of that again today for the first time in a long time
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.
Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.
Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
I agree. When Lewis actually had possession, the defender was NOT in contact.
The ability to win the game inside two minutes in the fourth quarter, which he always has been able to do His entire career. Glad we saw a glimpse of that again today for the first time in a long time
He hasn't had a lot of chances lately, but he has put the team in position to win with a 4th quarter drive a few times this year, only for the defense to blow it.
I’d say big picture wise forcing his way here worked out for him: lots of QBs who havis been better than Eli throughout history weren’t part of winning 2 Super Bowls. Act like we’ve had Marino or something. Forcing his way here worked out
You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both
I’d say big picture wise forcing his way here worked out for him: lots of QBs who havis been better than Eli throughout history weren’t part of winning 2 Super Bowls. Act like we’ve had Marino or something. Forcing his way here worked out
Please list them.
Lots of QB's were better who didn't win 2 SB's...? Â
And I stand by my comment...compared to the other elite QB's in his time period he has had by far the weakest supporting cast over the majority of his career...
You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both
Look at where his defenses and running games have ranked...
That list would be pretty lengthy since few outside of here would consider Eli even on the fringe of the top 10 all Time... and my suspicion is you’d disagree with more than a few names on any list just by virtue of him having two rings. Your screen name leads me to suspect you are higher on him than most are, which is fine. I just think it’s stupid to say the Giants have let Eli down when he has been a part of two Sb winning teams here.
RE: Lots of QB's were better who didn't win 2 SB's...? Â
And I stand by my comment...compared to the other elite QB's in his time period he has had by far the weakest supporting cast over the majority of his career...
No. I’m not saying he doesn’t get credit. I’m saying it’s stupid to credit him for team success when it’s good and absolve him when it’s bad. I’m also
Saying it’s stupid to say the Giants have let him down when they surrounded him with enough to win 2 SBs. He made out pretty well forcing his way here
You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both
Look at where his defenses and running games have ranked...
Or how many All-Pro's the Giants have had...
To be fair the only two games they won this year the defense has given up a total of 19 points
I swear there is a decent contingent who are bigger Eli fans than Giants fans. We haven’t had the best run the last few years but to say the Giants have let Eli Manning down is just stunning to me. People acting like he’s the Jordan of football and we underachieved only winning two championships with him or something
That list would be pretty lengthy since few outside of here would consider Eli even on the fringe of the top 10 all Time... and my suspicion is you’d disagree with more than a few names on any list just by virtue of him having two rings. Your screen name leads me to suspect you are higher on him than most are, which is fine. I just think it’s stupid to say the Giants have let Eli down when he has been a part of two Sb winning teams here.
You cites, “lots of QBs who havis been better than Eli throughout history,” and I’m wondering if “lots” constitutes one, two, ten, or twenty quarterbacks in your mind. Naturally, the word “lots” intimates numbers closer to the latter. I genuinely struggle to envision how you could present arguments in favor of “lots” of quarterbacks enjoying superior careers to that of Eli.
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
I swear there is a decent contingent who are bigger Eli fans than Giants fans. We haven’t had the best run the last few years but to say the Giants have let Eli Manning down is just stunning to me. People acting like he’s the Jordan of football and we underachieved only winning two championships with him or something
Well, you have a quarterback that has been the absolute epitome of class in an era of selfishness and crass. From on-field play to charity to media,, what have you, it’s incredibly difficult to find any fault with the way that Eli has handled his business. Then you have a franchise that has itself stumbled through controversy, employed players of questionable character, personnel of questionable merit, and is a foundational member of an ownership cartel that has faced broader challenges. Is it that difficult to understand why some might have a stronger allegiance to a man than an amorphous franchise/organization?
Do you think folks love Berkshire Hathaway or do they love Warren Buffet?
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.
The Giants were a premiere franchise who were seen as being one of the best run in football even coming off a down 2003. Eli forced his way here to avoid less desirable situations for a reason. We were in the super bowl 4 years before he got here and werent too far removed in the grand scheme of things from winning it twice. He didn’t join the bengals or the browns or the charger franchise he wanted no part of. He joined a franchise with an incredible legacy and he leaves here having contributed to it. Bad run at the end? Sure. Take it in totality though? Playing hardball with San Diego worked out for him, don’t know how anyone can say otherwise
Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.
How exactly has Indy built around Luck? The defense and offensive line have been brutal pretty much since he's gotten there
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.
How exactly has Indy built around Luck? The defense and offensive line have been brutal pretty much since he's gotten there
That was sort of my point- the Colts have hung Luck out to dry and he deserves better, IMO
The Giants were a premiere franchise who were seen as being one of the best run in football even coming off a down 2003. Eli forced his way here to avoid less desirable situations for a reason. We were in the super bowl 4 years before he got here and werent too far removed in the grand scheme of things from winning it twice. He didn’t join the bengals or the browns or the charger franchise he wanted no part of. He joined a franchise with an incredible legacy and he leaves here having contributed to it. Bad run at the end? Sure. Take it in totality though? Playing hardball with San Diego worked out for him, don’t know how anyone can say otherwise
Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
Eh, I think that there is a lot of revisionist history here. The Giants had gotten blown away in a SB four years back and outside of that run hadn’t won a playoff game since 1993. Trey Junkin was fresh in our minds, not LT. Meanwhile, the Chargers were an absolute destitute franchise with a terribletrack record of supporting players, namely quarterbacks. Eli’s draft day power play was more about the Chargers and less about the Giants, IMO.
Well I’d agree that joining the Giants in 04 wasn’t exactly hopping on the train of a certain budding dynasty. But I do believe the legacy and long term track record of the Giants franchise wielded a lot of power in that spot. Some organizations are just more trustworthy “stocks” to buy than others. Id put our Giants on a very short list. I’d say Eli was rewarded for his decision. He’s pushing 15 years now as the starting QB here though, and unless you have a run like Walsh’s 49ers, Landry’s cowboys or belichicks pats things can go sideways over periods that long.
the FO has failed to surrounded him with talent, you likely havent read your own threads and comments.
When he was given and OL '06-11, he was almost dearth of talented WR except Plax and '07 and '08; and while we have WR 'weapons' since OBJ, where is the OL? Or the LBs to stop opponents from moving the chains, or the D they had to buy to give him the ball more?
11 years of over 70 draft picks and you'd find it hard to come up with 22, likely even 15 good players, especially at their draft positions.
“When he was given and OL '06-11, he was almost dearth of talented WR except Plax and '07 and '08”
So pre injuries Cruz and Nicks werent one of the most dynamic duos in the league? Steve smith catching 100 plus balls? There was also a running game that for a good half decade was about as productive as any in the entire nfl. Also a defense that while inconsistent at times was generally awesome in his postseason career, with the exception of last years packer game... in the two Sb winning runs I don’t believe any team scored over 20 points against us on any of those 8 games, and we faced hall of fame qb after hall of fame qb. We held Tom Brady to 31 total points in two
Super Bowls
Cmon now. The Giants have had a shitty run of late but let’s stop with the revisionist stuff as if Eli has had to perform Herculean feats to gain the Giants respectability
Seriously why do some so called fans have to rip a guy who is one the greatest players in Giants history and also one of the greatest post season performers in NFL history?
The guy will be top 5 in most QB stats when he is done...
The best running game in the NFL for half a decade...are you on crack?
And yes the defenses stepped up in the 2 Championship post seasons but he was the best player in the playoffs both those years...
That performance in GB in 2007 may have been the best performance ever by a QB in playoff history...
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.
Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
I agree. When Lewis actually had possession, the defender was NOT in contact.
Down by contact is not a reviewable play unless there's a fumble.
Or more of an eli fan? You are you just proving my point for me. All I said is it’s dumb to say the Giants have let him down. That constitutes ripping him?
Lol ok. He has been a terrific Giant. But I’m a Giant fan. Was before Eli got here, will be after he goes, won’t shit on my team just to prop him
Up
But are you just willfully unaware or have a teeeoble memory when you think I’m on crack for saying the Giants had as potent a running game as any in the league for a good half decade or so. That’s not really up for debate. From Eli’s rookie season up to about 2010 the running game was largely phenomenal and quite brutally honestl what concerned defenses more about our attack during that period. Do you not remember Tiki rewriting record books or Earth Wind and Fire? Did I imagine this? Are you actually denying the run game was out of this world for the better part of that time?
about us fans who are huge fans of one of the greatest Giants in franchise history, to be odd. Yes, some of us absolutely love Eli Manning, one of the greatest Giants ever. Get over it.
I’m sticking up for a franchise who some are depicting as bumbling idiots who did nothing other than get gifted Eli over the past two decades and largely waste him. From people who call themselves Giants fans and have the nerve to accuse me of not being one (at least JC did) for sticking up for them
I’m a big Eli fan myself. I’m a bigger giants fan. He’s pushing 15 years here it’s not all going to go smoothly
The organization has done everything possible to provide him with weapons throughout his career. Plax, Nicks, Cruz, S. Smith, Shepard, OBJ, Engram. We also invested heavily into the OL. Worked out with guys like Snee and Mac.
On defense, he's had the likes of Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, K. Phillips, Webster, Rolle, etc. Eli pissed some of those seasons away by throwing 20+ INTs twice and being mediocre for a few others.
You can say the Giants haven't addressed the OL recently. Arguable, but okay. But to say he hasn't been given a supporting cast is simply false.
That despite the defense playing poorly for half the season in 2007, they don't win the SB without their Herculean effort in the playoffs. Shut down high powered offense after high powered offense. Specifically Tuck, who was beastly.
Defense wasn't nearly as good in 2011, but Nicks played like a man possessed.
Points allowed was a little higher than it should have been due to offensive turnovers putting them in bad spots, they were very highly ranked in yards though and led in sacks. Then they were lights out in the playoffs as turnovers stopped happening.
11 defense was shit until the final 2 games of the season and playoffs. Eli carried that team to 7-7 when they probably should have been like 3-11. He was terrific all year. But starting with the jets game on Christmas Eve and on through the playoffs the defense and running game was terrific. Eli stayed playing well and even raised his game, but 11 was a whole team effort from the jets game on. That team was clicking on all cylinders
You say you’re a big Eli fan but an even bigger Giants fan. Well then it shouldn’t bother you so much when fans celebrate Eli, one of the greatest Giants ever. It’s laughable when someone says they’re a big Giants fan then tries to diminish what Eli means to this franchise.
I’m bothered by crapping on my team to do it. It’s not only not necessary, it’s purely false. Celebrate him all you want, but try to paint him as someone who has covered up for an otherwise clown show outfit and I’m going to call out the stupidity of it if I feel compelled to in that moment
Warrants that loyalty. And his prime years have absolutely been wasted on the likes of Larry Donnell. Excuse me if I could care less if a Donnell gets dumped on while Eki gets defended and celebrated.
He has company there, joining every qb who has ever lived. He’s also had more than his share of dynamic skill players and he had the organization invest and re-invest in restocking them when injuries derailed things with certain guys. Why are we acting like he was his dad on the saints? Eli had a good run here. 2013 onward hasn’t been the best but he shares responsibility there too for some of it.
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
RE: Yea well not every teammate has been a pro bowler Â
He has company there, joining every qb who has ever lived. He’s also had more than his share of dynamic skill players and he had the organization invest and re-invest in restocking them when injuries derailed things with certain guys. Why are we acting like he was his dad on the saints? Eli had a good run here. 2013 onward hasn’t been the best but he shares responsibility there too for some of it.
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
The Giants were a premiere franchise who were seen as being one of the best run in football even coming off a down 2003. Eli forced his way here to avoid less desirable situations for a reason. We were in the super bowl 4 years before he got here and werent too far removed in the grand scheme of things from winning it twice. He didn’t join the bengals or the browns or the charger franchise he wanted no part of. He joined a franchise with an incredible legacy and he leaves here having contributed to it. Bad run at the end? Sure. Take it in totality though? Playing hardball with San Diego worked out for him, don’t know how anyone can say otherwise
Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
The way I remember it the only reason he didn't want to go to San Diego was because of the war between Schottenheimer and AJ Smith - and then Schottenheimer told him that Smith preferred Rivers. Then he said "if that's the case I'd rather not play in San Diego" which Smith then took to the media and turned into a circus.
Who was running our drafts since well before he even officially became the GM. He is also a historic figure in the league for reasons that may not even occur to many of you... All the benefit of the doubt we give afford Eli Manning and the general love he is given should also be afforded to the man who largely built the two Sb winning teams Manning started for. Including the 07 team who people try to downplay credit for....yet he is given zero slack whatsoever for a down stretch which has also included some bad injury luck.
If you can’t see how someone in my position can’t contrast that and feel a certain way, while again not accusing anyone of overt racism, then you are too beyond reach to bother with here.
RE: Yea well not every teammate has been a pro bowler Â
He has company there, joining every qb who has ever lived. He’s also had more than his share of dynamic skill players and he had the organization invest and re-invest in restocking them when injuries derailed things with certain guys. Why are we acting like he was his dad on the saints? Eli had a good run here. 2013 onward hasn’t been the best but he shares responsibility there too for some of it.
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
Are you a bigger fan of Jerry Reese or the Giants?
Who happens to also be incredibly proud of Jerry Reese, the doors he has opened potentially for others, and the class he has conducted himself with as gm of my team. But even above all that, the fact that he has his hands all over two Sb winners. Yet on this thread he is indirectly being painted as a stooge who let Ei down. He has represented us very well. The same people who want to act like it’s sacreigious to do anything other than bow before Eli will knock Jerry Reese every chance they get. They both deserve credit when things go well and blame when they don’t.
I’m not accusing anyone of being overtly racist, but if you can’t see how someone in my position can find this unseemly then you’re just one of those people blind to the feelings of others who don’t share your life experiences. Period
Dude I just checked your profile and every thread in your posting history is an Eli thread. You love him. Good for you. Only hole here is the one in Eli’s backside that you seem to want into
marc ross and chris mara are the two stooges who let us down and that reese just got caught up in trying to keep everyone happy. that way there is one white stooge and one black stooge. not that it's great to have a GM who you regard as being half neutered by the owner but hey, i'm not saying he's a stooge. the giants probably don't win the first SB if he doesn't cut pettigout and slot diehl at OLT.
Let's not pretend the adoration heaped on Coughlin for being a two time SB championship winning coach while giving Reese little or no credit for building those teams is accidental.
Larry Donnell? How about the shitload of premium picks spent on the offensive side of the ball during Reese's tenure? The entire organizational philosophy revolved around drafting big-time playmakers to provide Eli weapons to the point that we've neglected the trenches. Isn't that the popular narrative here? Now it's Reese hasn't given Eli any weapons.
He has company there, joining every qb who has ever lived. He’s also had more than his share of dynamic skill players and he had the organization invest and re-invest in restocking them when injuries derailed things with certain guys. Why are we acting like he was his dad on the saints? Eli had a good run here. 2013 onward hasn’t been the best but he shares responsibility there too for some of it.
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
I'm more accustomed to these brain-dead comments after losses...
Anyone completely dismissive of the feelings someone in my position can have about this dynamic just doesn’t possess any ability for one second to see a point of view that sits outside your bubble. That’s fine though. I don’t expect you to have any earthly grasp on matters like this and how conversations like this can come off a certain way to certain people. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss them speaks to your own shortcomings
Only thing brain dead here is your ability to grasp any nuanced point. I’m not calling anyone a racist but denying dynamics such as this can exist even on a subconscious level is indeed the new racism
Warrants that loyalty. And his prime years have absolutely been wasted on the likes of Larry Donnell. Excuse me if I could care less if a Donnell gets dumped on while Eki gets defended and celebrated.
Prime years throwing to Donnell? He was throwing to Donnell when he was 35
Where Larry Donnell was our primary receiver. Which year was that again? You know, since you're absolutely sure we wasted so many of Eli's prime years.
Anyone completely dismissive of the feelings someone in my position can have about this dynamic just doesn’t possess any ability for one second to see a point of view that sits outside your bubble. That’s fine though. I don’t expect you to have any earthly grasp on matters like this and how conversations like this can come off a certain way to certain people. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss them speaks to your own shortcomings
Only thing brain dead here is your ability to grasp any nuanced point. I’m not calling anyone a racist but denying dynamics such as this can exist even on a subconscious level is indeed the new racism
Who happens to also be incredibly proud of Jerry Reese, the doors he has opened potentially for others, and the class he has conducted himself with as gm of my team. But even above all that, the fact that he has his hands all over two Sb winners. Yet on this thread he is indirectly being painted as a stooge who let Ei down. He has represented us very well. The same people who want to act like it’s sacreigious to do anything other than bow before Eli will knock Jerry Reese every chance they get. They both deserve credit when things go well and blame when they don’t.
I’m not accusing anyone of being overtly racist, but if you can’t see how someone in my position can find this unseemly then you’re just one of those people blind to the feelings of others who don’t share your life experiences. Period
There we go pulling that Racist card out of your ass because you have nothing else. Seriously what an ignorant ass ploy to use
Where Larry Donnell was our primary receiver. Which year was that again? You know, since you're absolutely sure we wasted so many of Eli's prime years.
Must have been during the years we where we had the best running game in the NFL for half a decade
From 2004-2010 the Giants ran for 14,972 yards. The only team who ran for more yards was Atlanta because their qb was a once in a lifetime
Scrambler. The Giants also led the nfl in ypc in that span at 4.62
That’s actually 7 seasons, longer than half a decade. Yet idiots who have heir head so far up Eli’s ass won’t even concede facts. Facts are in this span our qb was a secondary fear for opposing defenses
There is no need to participate in this any further. I know the demo around here, I know how that demo can be regarding any conversation that even injects any shred of race even tangentially. Fact is the flagrant disrespect shown to Jerry Reese here is absolutely deplorable considering what he has done for the franchise. The same people who get on their high horse about a critical syllable uttered about Eli are all about the bash Reese bandwagon including ignoring blatant facts. I’ve been called a crackheas and an idiot for simply stating factually that the Giants running game in the first 6-7 years of Eli’s career was amazing. I’ve heard before Beckham he never had a wr other than play. Or that the defense that carried us in 2 Sb runs has sucked. Poor Eli getting hamstrung by the idiot Jerry Reese. People keep telling on themselves
Chris Mara gets just as much sh-t as Reese for his hand in the drafting. Ben McAdoo gets an equal amount of sh-t.
Reese was great and nobody ever gave him sh-t prior to 2012. Remember "In Reese We Trust"? That was a motto that was repeated here nearly unanimously for years.
When the O-line went to sh-t, so did the team.
Ernie Accorsi built the line that we rode to two championships if you want to talk facts. Jerry Reese did not draft or free agent sign a single one of those guys that contributed to the 14,000 rushing yards offensive line you referenced earlier.
Reese gets sh-t on for his job performance. For you to bring race into the equation is nothing more than a witch hunt. Ridiculous.
You're actually the deplorable one for making a sweeping accusation Â
but for building the trenches, where I believe football games are won and lost, he has been poor.
IMO, the Giants decline is directly associated with the decline of the offensive line, and the defensive line ain't been that great in awhile either, until the massive spending spree a season ago.
That is directly where Reese failed. And it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
If you think Reese didn’t start making draft day calls Â
And have personnel Input prior to 2007, then you simply don’t know a damn thing about the inner workings of the Giants in that time period. From
About 2003 onward he was running the draft, well before he was named GM. That’s pretty common knowledge.
And telling me that mcadoo gets crap doesn’t say anything. He’s never accomplished a damn thing for the franchise, I like the two time Sb winning gm who we like to trash at every turn and deny history just to prop up your hero. Your Eli worship in particular is a bit creepy Britt
He's a two time winning coach. He got plenty of sh-t on his way out, during the time period from 2012 to 2015.
You're accusation doesn't hold water. Over half the damn team is black, and we love them, but we hate Reese because he's black?
Get the f-ck out of here. Jerry Reese was highly, HIGHLY regarded around here for a long time. But all of the sudden we realized he was black so now we don't like him?
You think you're identifying closet racists over their disdain... Â
I said as a black man I cant help but feel a certain way about some of the dialogue surrounding him. Does make me uncomfortable. Don’t expect you to understand. Don’t give a shit if you do. There’s a large gap between that though and calling people racists for being critical of Reese. I can be critical of him too. The way people lose their shit over someone of a different background voicing these sensibilities and sentiments says a lot to be honest. I’m proud of Reese as the gm of my team and his significant place in history as something of a pioneer along with guys like Ozzie newsome. Just the way it is. To you he’s just a gm
And nah I still think your Eli man crush far dwarfs anything here in terms of creepiness
You seem to keep ignoring the fact that Reese was pretty Â
Few, a sizeable contingent here have credited the success we've had to Accorsi. The rest credit Coughlin. I know, because I've been fighting this battle on BBI for years.
I’ve seen him referred to a loser. That is tough to take. The entire organization deserves blame for the recent bad years & obviously a lot falls on Reese. But this idea that Reese is incompetent is absurd. Reese will absolutely get another GM job in this league quickly if a change is made. And lousy offensive line play is not unique to the Giants, this is a league wide issue.
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.
Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.
I didn't suggest that is was.
The blame for the organizational failures the last several years is shared. Reese deserves a good part of the blame for drafting poorly. Coughlin for coaching poorly. Eli for QB poorly. Ownership for bringing in a guy who wasn't ready and promoting him to HC. Keep going...
However, if you stay on the site long enough, you'll find a slew of posters not only ready to absolve Coughlin and Eli but throw out nonsensical shit like, "If only Reese had given Eli some weapons."
I love Eli but he threw for 200 yards and the offense needed overtime to score 12 points....12 fucking points We won because the defense did not quit because of the offensive ineptitude yesterday. Let's not prop up the offense.
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.
Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.
I didn't suggest that is was.
The blame for the organizational failures the last several years is shared. Reese deserves a good part of the blame for drafting poorly. Coughlin for coaching poorly. Eli for QB poorly. Ownership for bringing in a guy who wasn't ready and promoting him to HC. Keep going...
However, if you stay on the site long enough, you'll find a slew of posters not only ready to absolve Coughlin and Eli but throw out nonsensical shit like, "If only Reese had given Eli some weapons."
Mind boggling.
Buy you agree with the guy who does say it's related to his race.
It's not. It has to do with people's opinions on who's responsible for what, and philosophies on how a roster should be built.
My opinion is pretty simple. The GM is responsible for the roster. The team went to sh-t when the O-line went to sh-t. Therefore, I'm annoyed at the GM, and his failure over the course of 6 years and counting to put just an average o-line out there. Period.
And I should say that I'm annoyed at the GM above everybody else.... Â
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.
I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
RE: RE: And I should say that I'm annoyed at the GM above everybody else.... Â
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.
I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
And IF that's true, he was held accountable and ultimately fired.
Are you implying that Reese is unfairly treated if he receives the same at the end of the season, or as it pertains to this conversation, that posters want him to be held accountable now?
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.
I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
And IF that's true, he was held accountable and ultimately fired.
Are you implying that Reese is unfairly treated if he receives the same at the end of the season, or as it pertains to this conversation, that posters want him to be held accountable now?
Not at all. I think I've seen enough at this point to favor firing everyone on down the line and replacing them.
I’m absolutely positive that with some it does, you are being naive to suggest otherwise. I don’t find that to be the case for the majority of his detractors though. I’m just saying as a black man who views Jerry Reese in a light beyond that as just a football GM I do think he deserves more respect than I’ve seen him get here, forget the fact that he’s black his accomplishments speak for themselves and he’s have another job in 5 minutes. Any gm can have a down run. Injuries have also hurt
Some of you just aren’t going to understand, period. And that’s fine. Am I sensitive when it comes to criticism of him? Maybe. Do I think he’s above it? Nope. But I’m immensely proud of his place in history as one of the initial pioneers in an executive position in this sport, and the success he has had. He is a dope opener along with guys like Ozzie newsome (another example of someone who shows that if you do this long enough, you can have a down period). He is helping to normalize a position in this industry for people who don’t all look like bill polian, and that’s not a bad thing. Some of you will just always see him as a football gm and no more. I don’t expect you to have feelings beyond that. But yes it pisses me off to see him trashed and painted as an albatross Eli has had to work around
In my experience those who are quick to accuse you of accusing others of being racist or accuse you of playing the “race card” just because of the mere mention of race to shut down any conversation..... well I’ll just leave it there. Not all mentions of race are “playing the race” card. I’m half white. I have a beautiful white wife. I don’t walk around thinking the worst of all white people. Far from it.... But those who are trigger happy to shut down any dialogue regarding even the mention of race... ok. Me mentioning that my race gives me a soft spot for Reese given his historic position and how I can sometimes find the piling on a bit unseemly isn’t playing the race card. Didn’t accuse anyone of being racist. All I did was voice my sensibilities, sensibilities that are going to be difficult to understand for a lot of people
I guess we can’t criticize Reese because he’s black and you have a soft spot for him? Are you listening to yourself? He gets a lifetime job because you feel he opened doors? Come on man. Nobody is criticizing Reese because he’s black and he’s certainly not Teflon because he’s black either.
There are people that think Reese should be fired. There are people that think he should stay. There are also people that shit all over Ernie Accorsi during his tenure and he was pretty successful too, no?
And for crying out loud, stop telling us all that we will never understand. You’ve said that 1000 times in this thread. What we do understand is that Reese is NOT being judged on his color and we aren’t going to give him a pass because of his color either. We all appreciate what’s he’s done as far as opening doors. But that is not what this should be all about and I’m kind of surprised that you want it be.
Within the last decade. You want him fired? Fine I guess. He will have another job in 5 seconds. Lots of things go into being a successful gm and with all of those moving parts that are involved if you preside over a team long enough you will have some dry periods. Look around at anyone who has done it for a long enough time. None of them crank out infinite success. The draft is a crapshoot. Some are better at it than others but it is prone to variance. Guys get injured too and that doesn’t help. Did Reese suddenly get stupid at an age well before we should be questioning his faculties?
Luckily I think the Giants don’t see it the way you do and will opt for stability with him at the helm and allow him to keep doing this
My participation in this thread has never been about “don’t fire Jerry Reese because he’s some hero”. It’s about having his back when other posters paint him as an albatross Eli has had to work around. That’s nonsense.
We kill Reese for his performances, but some who do refuse to apply that same standard to Eli. They make excuses for him left and right.
I love Eli. I'm so happy about the win. I'm glad for Eli that he got another win and another game winning drive. He's all class and that's great.
But the offense sucks, and Eli is the biggest part of that suckitude. I think it's only fair to point that out, in the same way that it's fair to point out Reese's failures during his span as GM.
Where LatHarv83 has a point is that it appears some are applying a double standard, and it would be absurd to think that 100% of those who apply that double-standard are free of racial bias in doing so. It happens elsewhere, why not here?
Coughlin and Eli are seen each week, with their faces most palpably associated with success. Reese is in the background. I think that's why we have much more affection for them than Reese.
I've been 'hard' on Eli (as his diehards will think) and I wanted TC fired before he actually got fired. I didn't start to come down on Reese until this season. I pretty much gave him a pass from 2012-2016, but that ends this season. So, it ain't race for me.
He's a terrible quote and routinely makes mistakes when he makes public statements about players and he's never gotten more polished at that.
I understand why people don't care for him, he's not exactly likable. That combined with what we can think of as his team-building philosophies, it's understandable that he doesn't have a large number of people willing to come to his defense
We kill Reese for his performances, but some who do refuse to apply that same standard to Eli. They make excuses for him left and right.
I love Eli. I'm so happy about the win. I'm glad for Eli that he got another win and another game winning drive. He's all class and that's great.
But the offense sucks, and Eli is the biggest part of that suckitude. I think it's only fair to point that out, in the same way that it's fair to point out Reese's failures during his span as GM.
Where LatHarv83 has a point is that it appears some are applying a double standard, and it would be absurd to think that 100% of those who apply that double-standard are free of racial bias in doing so. It happens elsewhere, why not here?
Wait a minute... You think Eli is the BIGGEST thing that's wrong with the offense? Not the offensive line, not the piss poor running game over the past five years, not the street free agent WR's playing right now, but Eli is the BIGGEST thing that's wrong?
I bet you'd have a hard time finding the biggest Eli bashers... Â
Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
Quote:
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.
Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
I agree. When Lewis actually had possession, the defender was NOT in contact.
No doubt that was a TD.
They scored 12 points and averaged 5.8 yards per pass attempt...
Unless he also played Defense
He hasn't had a lot of chances lately, but he has put the team in position to win with a 4th quarter drive a few times this year, only for the defense to blow it.
Ya know its pretty hard to win those things...
And I stand by my comment...compared to the other elite QB's in his time period he has had by far the weakest supporting cast over the majority of his career...
Look at where his defenses and running games have ranked...
Or how many All-Pro's the Giants have had...
Ya know its pretty hard to win those things...
And I stand by my comment...compared to the other elite QB's in his time period he has had by far the weakest supporting cast over the majority of his career...
No. I’m not saying he doesn’t get credit. I’m saying it’s stupid to credit him for team success when it’s good and absolve him when it’s bad. I’m also
Saying it’s stupid to say the Giants have let him down when they surrounded him with enough to win 2 SBs. He made out pretty well forcing his way here
Quote:
You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both
Look at where his defenses and running games have ranked...
Or how many All-Pro's the Giants have had...
To be fair the only two games they won this year the defense has given up a total of 19 points
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Do you think folks love Berkshire Hathaway or do they love Warren Buffet?
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
Quote:
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.
How exactly has Indy built around Luck? The defense and offensive line have been brutal pretty much since he's gotten there
Quote:
In comment 13698087 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.
Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.
How exactly has Indy built around Luck? The defense and offensive line have been brutal pretty much since he's gotten there
Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
When he was given and OL '06-11, he was almost dearth of talented WR except Plax and '07 and '08; and while we have WR 'weapons' since OBJ, where is the OL? Or the LBs to stop opponents from moving the chains, or the D they had to buy to give him the ball more?
11 years of over 70 draft picks and you'd find it hard to come up with 22, likely even 15 good players, especially at their draft positions.
So pre injuries Cruz and Nicks werent one of the most dynamic duos in the league? Steve smith catching 100 plus balls? There was also a running game that for a good half decade was about as productive as any in the entire nfl. Also a defense that while inconsistent at times was generally awesome in his postseason career, with the exception of last years packer game... in the two Sb winning runs I don’t believe any team scored over 20 points against us on any of those 8 games, and we faced hall of fame qb after hall of fame qb. We held Tom Brady to 31 total points in two
Super Bowls
Cmon now. The Giants have had a shitty run of late but let’s stop with the revisionist stuff as if Eli has had to perform Herculean feats to gain the Giants respectability
The guy will be top 5 in most QB stats when he is done...
The best running game in the NFL for half a decade...are you on crack?
And yes the defenses stepped up in the 2 Championship post seasons but he was the best player in the playoffs both those years...
That performance in GB in 2007 may have been the best performance ever by a QB in playoff history...
Quote:
In comment 13697817 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.
Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
I agree. When Lewis actually had possession, the defender was NOT in contact.
Down by contact is not a reviewable play unless there's a fumble.
Lol ok. He has been a terrific Giant. But I’m a Giant fan. Was before Eli got here, will be after he goes, won’t shit on my team just to prop him
Up
I’m a big Eli fan myself. I’m a bigger giants fan. He’s pushing 15 years here it’s not all going to go smoothly
On defense, he's had the likes of Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, K. Phillips, Webster, Rolle, etc. Eli pissed some of those seasons away by throwing 20+ INTs twice and being mediocre for a few others.
You can say the Giants haven't addressed the OL recently. Arguable, but okay. But to say he hasn't been given a supporting cast is simply false.
Defense wasn't nearly as good in 2011, but Nicks played like a man possessed.
11 defense was shit until the final 2 games of the season and playoffs. Eli carried that team to 7-7 when they probably should have been like 3-11. He was terrific all year. But starting with the jets game on Christmas Eve and on through the playoffs the defense and running game was terrific. Eli stayed playing well and even raised his game, but 11 was a whole team effort from the jets game on. That team was clicking on all cylinders
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
Holy shitfuck...
Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
The way I remember it the only reason he didn't want to go to San Diego was because of the war between Schottenheimer and AJ Smith - and then Schottenheimer told him that Smith preferred Rivers. Then he said "if that's the case I'd rather not play in San Diego" which Smith then took to the media and turned into a circus.
If you can’t see how someone in my position can’t contrast that and feel a certain way, while again not accusing anyone of overt racism, then you are too beyond reach to bother with here.
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
Are you a bigger fan of Jerry Reese or the Giants?
I’m not accusing anyone of being overtly racist, but if you can’t see how someone in my position can find this unseemly then you’re just one of those people blind to the feelings of others who don’t share your life experiences. Period
Larry Donnell? How about the shitload of premium picks spent on the offensive side of the ball during Reese's tenure? The entire organizational philosophy revolved around drafting big-time playmakers to provide Eli weapons to the point that we've neglected the trenches. Isn't that the popular narrative here? Now it's Reese hasn't given Eli any weapons.
I wonder what team some of you guys are watching.
As for who’s hotter, if I had to be gay for a day neither would be on the short list lol
And to be honest I really don’t give a shit if some of you can’t see my perspective or downright refuse to, but there is something I find a bit irking as an African American to see our fan base slobber all over Eli while trashing Jerry Reese at every opportunity. Reese has for the most part done well by him. I’m not calling anyone a racist though I’m sure some will take it that way, I’m just saying that’s also playing into my sensibilities here. I don’t expect many of you to understand
I'm more accustomed to these brain-dead comments after losses...
Anyone completely dismissive of the feelings someone in my position can have about this dynamic just doesn’t possess any ability for one second to see a point of view that sits outside your bubble. That’s fine though. I don’t expect you to have any earthly grasp on matters like this and how conversations like this can come off a certain way to certain people. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss them speaks to your own shortcomings
Only thing brain dead here is your ability to grasp any nuanced point. I’m not calling anyone a racist but denying dynamics such as this can exist even on a subconscious level is indeed the new racism
Prime years throwing to Donnell? He was throwing to Donnell when he was 35
Anyone completely dismissive of the feelings someone in my position can have about this dynamic just doesn’t possess any ability for one second to see a point of view that sits outside your bubble. That’s fine though. I don’t expect you to have any earthly grasp on matters like this and how conversations like this can come off a certain way to certain people. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss them speaks to your own shortcomings
Only thing brain dead here is your ability to grasp any nuanced point. I’m not calling anyone a racist but denying dynamics such as this can exist even on a subconscious level is indeed the new racism
Hell of a crutch you have there.
I’m not accusing anyone of being overtly racist, but if you can’t see how someone in my position can find this unseemly then you’re just one of those people blind to the feelings of others who don’t share your life experiences. Period
There we go pulling that Racist card out of your ass because you have nothing else. Seriously what an ignorant ass ploy to use
Must have been during the years we where we had the best running game in the NFL for half a decade
From 2004-2010 the Giants ran for 14,972 yards. The only team who ran for more yards was Atlanta because their qb was a once in a lifetime
Scrambler. The Giants also led the nfl in ypc in that span at 4.62
That’s actually 7 seasons, longer than half a decade. Yet idiots who have heir head so far up Eli’s ass won’t even concede facts. Facts are in this span our qb was a secondary fear for opposing defenses
Reese was great and nobody ever gave him sh-t prior to 2012. Remember "In Reese We Trust"? That was a motto that was repeated here nearly unanimously for years.
When the O-line went to sh-t, so did the team.
Ernie Accorsi built the line that we rode to two championships if you want to talk facts. Jerry Reese did not draft or free agent sign a single one of those guys that contributed to the 14,000 rushing yards offensive line you referenced earlier.
Reese gets sh-t on for his job performance. For you to bring race into the equation is nothing more than a witch hunt. Ridiculous.
IMO, the Giants decline is directly associated with the decline of the offensive line, and the defensive line ain't been that great in awhile either, until the massive spending spree a season ago.
That is directly where Reese failed. And it has NOTHING to do with his skin color.
About 2003 onward he was running the draft, well before he was named GM. That’s pretty common knowledge.
And telling me that mcadoo gets crap doesn’t say anything. He’s never accomplished a damn thing for the franchise, I like the two time Sb winning gm who we like to trash at every turn and deny history just to prop up your hero. Your Eli worship in particular is a bit creepy Britt
You're accusation doesn't hold water. Over half the damn team is black, and we love them, but we hate Reese because he's black?
Get the f-ck out of here. Jerry Reese was highly, HIGHLY regarded around here for a long time. But all of the sudden we realized he was black so now we don't like him?
And nah I still think your Eli man crush far dwarfs anything here in terms of creepiness
This is a football message board where people are discussing/being critical of the person responsible for the roster of their favorite team.
In regards to Eli, the discussion is about the failure to protect the franchise quarterback in what should have been the prime years of his career.
Quite frankly, race has no place in this discussion. You injected it. Additionally, you are doing Reese a disservice by doing so.
We're all Giants fans here.
This is a football message board where people are discussing/being critical of the person responsible for the roster of their favorite team.
Few, a sizeable contingent BBI credited those two SB victories to Accorsi. I know, because I've been fighting that battle here for years.
In regards to Eli, the discussion is about the failure to protect the franchise quarterback in what should have been the prime years of his career.
Quite frankly, race has no place in this discussion. You injected it. Additionally, you are doing Reese a disservice by doing so.
You keep playing the race card, well step up and show us this offensive stuff.
Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
Quote:
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.
Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.
Manning is wildly disrespected and has his handful of "creepy" defenders.
Coughlin was wildly disrespected and had his handful of defenders.
Reese? No different.
Quote:
In comment 13699004 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.
Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.
I didn't suggest that is was.
The blame for the organizational failures the last several years is shared. Reese deserves a good part of the blame for drafting poorly. Coughlin for coaching poorly. Eli for QB poorly. Ownership for bringing in a guy who wasn't ready and promoting him to HC. Keep going...
However, if you stay on the site long enough, you'll find a slew of posters not only ready to absolve Coughlin and Eli but throw out nonsensical shit like, "If only Reese had given Eli some weapons."
Mind boggling.
Quote:
In comment 13699039 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13699004 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
pretty much a universal motto here from 2007-2012.
Right. And the moment we let Steve Smith walk down the NJ Turnpike and put on the shitty green uniform, the slogan changed to "Reese's Pieces".
If so, it had to do with the roster move, not his skin color. People didn't like the roster move. It was proven to be the right move.
I didn't suggest that is was.
The blame for the organizational failures the last several years is shared. Reese deserves a good part of the blame for drafting poorly. Coughlin for coaching poorly. Eli for QB poorly. Ownership for bringing in a guy who wasn't ready and promoting him to HC. Keep going...
However, if you stay on the site long enough, you'll find a slew of posters not only ready to absolve Coughlin and Eli but throw out nonsensical shit like, "If only Reese had given Eli some weapons."
Mind boggling.
Buy you agree with the guy who does say it's related to his race.
It's not. It has to do with people's opinions on who's responsible for what, and philosophies on how a roster should be built.
My opinion is pretty simple. The GM is responsible for the roster. The team went to sh-t when the O-line went to sh-t. Therefore, I'm annoyed at the GM, and his failure over the course of 6 years and counting to put just an average o-line out there. Period.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.
I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
Quote:
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.
I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
And IF that's true, he was held accountable and ultimately fired.
Are you implying that Reese is unfairly treated if he receives the same at the end of the season, or as it pertains to this conversation, that posters want him to be held accountable now?
Quote:
In comment 13699093 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
including Coughlin and Eli, as it pertains to the conversation, because I personally believe that the poor O-line hamstrung them.
It all goes back to that. Race never even crossed my mind.
I agree that it's curious who's blamed and absolved of blame. I don't pretend to know what goes on in the heads of other posters. I don't know.
I do find it difficult to believe that Coughlin had zero input in who was drafted during his tenure. I'd bet he played a big role in the war room on draft days and I bet you banged his fist on the table for game changing threats on the offensive side of the ball considering the type of offense he preffered.
And IF that's true, he was held accountable and ultimately fired.
Are you implying that Reese is unfairly treated if he receives the same at the end of the season, or as it pertains to this conversation, that posters want him to be held accountable now?
Not at all. I think I've seen enough at this point to favor firing everyone on down the line and replacing them.
The question is who do we replace them with?
Some of you just aren’t going to understand, period. And that’s fine. Am I sensitive when it comes to criticism of him? Maybe. Do I think he’s above it? Nope. But I’m immensely proud of his place in history as one of the initial pioneers in an executive position in this sport, and the success he has had. He is a dope opener along with guys like Ozzie newsome (another example of someone who shows that if you do this long enough, you can have a down period). He is helping to normalize a position in this industry for people who don’t all look like bill polian, and that’s not a bad thing. Some of you will just always see him as a football gm and no more. I don’t expect you to have feelings beyond that. But yes it pisses me off to see him trashed and painted as an albatross Eli has had to work around
I didn't even feel compelled to respond until you started accusing people of "telling on themselves". What were they telling, exactly?
In my experience those who are quick to accuse you of accusing others of being racist or accuse you of playing the “race card” just because of the mere mention of race to shut down any conversation..... well I’ll just leave it there. Not all mentions of race are “playing the race” card. I’m half white. I have a beautiful white wife. I don’t walk around thinking the worst of all white people. Far from it.... But those who are trigger happy to shut down any dialogue regarding even the mention of race... ok. Me mentioning that my race gives me a soft spot for Reese given his historic position and how I can sometimes find the piling on a bit unseemly isn’t playing the race card. Didn’t accuse anyone of being racist. All I did was voice my sensibilities, sensibilities that are going to be difficult to understand for a lot of people
There are people that think Reese should be fired. There are people that think he should stay. There are also people that shit all over Ernie Accorsi during his tenure and he was pretty successful too, no?
And for crying out loud, stop telling us all that we will never understand. You’ve said that 1000 times in this thread. What we do understand is that Reese is NOT being judged on his color and we aren’t going to give him a pass because of his color either. We all appreciate what’s he’s done as far as opening doors. But that is not what this should be all about and I’m kind of surprised that you want it be.
Luckily I think the Giants don’t see it the way you do and will opt for stability with him at the helm and allow him to keep doing this
Get em boys..
I love Eli. I'm so happy about the win. I'm glad for Eli that he got another win and another game winning drive. He's all class and that's great.
But the offense sucks, and Eli is the biggest part of that suckitude. I think it's only fair to point that out, in the same way that it's fair to point out Reese's failures during his span as GM.
Where LatHarv83 has a point is that it appears some are applying a double standard, and it would be absurd to think that 100% of those who apply that double-standard are free of racial bias in doing so. It happens elsewhere, why not here?
I understand why people don't care for him, he's not exactly likable. That combined with what we can think of as his team-building philosophies, it's understandable that he doesn't have a large number of people willing to come to his defense
I love Eli. I'm so happy about the win. I'm glad for Eli that he got another win and another game winning drive. He's all class and that's great.
But the offense sucks, and Eli is the biggest part of that suckitude. I think it's only fair to point that out, in the same way that it's fair to point out Reese's failures during his span as GM.
Where LatHarv83 has a point is that it appears some are applying a double standard, and it would be absurd to think that 100% of those who apply that double-standard are free of racial bias in doing so. It happens elsewhere, why not here?
Wait a minute... You think Eli is the BIGGEST thing that's wrong with the offense? Not the offensive line, not the piss poor running game over the past five years, not the street free agent WR's playing right now, but Eli is the BIGGEST thing that's wrong?