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Eli Manning’s 40th game winning drive..

Sean : 11/19/2017 4:25 pm
I know the season has been brutal, but I’m happy for Eli & Spags. The team fought hard. Also happy for McAdoo who has been destroyed everywhere.
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It's nice to win.  
Britt in VA : 11/19/2017 4:26 pm : link
I felt indifferent most of the game, but my blood was pumping starting the last two mins of regulation.
I was telling someone earlier in the week that Eli hasn’t shown  
mattlawson : 11/19/2017 4:30 pm : link
The ability to win the game inside two minutes in the fourth quarter, which he always has been able to do His entire career. Glad we saw a glimpse of that again today for the first time in a long time
And he got robbed  
bradshaw44 : 11/19/2017 4:30 pm : link
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.
I guess one could say.....  
Britt in VA : 11/19/2017 4:31 pm : link
he "elevated" the lesser players around him today?
Engram got robbed too on the PI.  
Blue21 : 11/19/2017 4:39 pm : link
That call was terrible.
RE: And he got robbed  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 11/19/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13697817 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.


Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.
RE: RE: And he got robbed  
mrvax : 11/19/2017 4:44 pm : link
In comment 13697862 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
In comment 13697817 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.



Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.



I agree. When Lewis actually had possession, the defender was NOT in contact.
Eli Manning  
BIGbluegermany : 11/19/2017 4:45 pm : link
is still the real deal.There is no way you let this man walk out of town, no f... way!!!
RE: And he got robbed  
rocco8112 : 11/19/2017 4:49 pm : link
In comment 13697817 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.


No doubt that was a TD.
RE: I guess one could say.....  
ajr2456 : 11/19/2017 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13697820 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
he "elevated" the lesser players around him today?


They scored 12 points and averaged 5.8 yards per pass attempt...

Unless he also played Defense
Avoided loss number 100 today  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 5:30 pm : link
Would have been the first QB ever to lose 100 regular season games with one franchise
RE: I was telling someone earlier in the week that Eli hasn’t shown  
an_idol_mind : 11/19/2017 5:31 pm : link
In comment 13697813 mattlawson said:
Quote:
The ability to win the game inside two minutes in the fourth quarter, which he always has been able to do His entire career. Glad we saw a glimpse of that again today for the first time in a long time


He hasn't had a lot of chances lately, but he has put the team in position to win with a 4th quarter drive a few times this year, only for the defense to blow it.
Yep amazing how this franchise has let him down  
JCin332 : 11/19/2017 5:32 pm : link
surrounding him with mediocre talent a lot of his career...
Franchise let him down?  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 5:47 pm : link
I’d say big picture wise forcing his way here worked out for him: lots of QBs who havis been better than Eli throughout history weren’t part of winning 2 Super Bowls. Act like we’ve had Marino or something. Forcing his way here worked out
Oh and by the way to be clear  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 5:50 pm : link
You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both
RE: Franchise let him down?  
BurberryManning : 11/19/2017 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13698045 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
I’d say big picture wise forcing his way here worked out for him: lots of QBs who havis been better than Eli throughout history weren’t part of winning 2 Super Bowls. Act like we’ve had Marino or something. Forcing his way here worked out
Please list them.
Lots of QB's were better who didn't win 2 SB's...?  
JCin332 : 11/19/2017 5:53 pm : link
So he doesn't get credit for those wins..?

Ya know its pretty hard to win those things...

And I stand by my comment...compared to the other elite QB's in his time period he has had by far the weakest supporting cast over the majority of his career...
RE: Oh and by the way to be clear  
JCin332 : 11/19/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13698046 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both


Look at where his defenses and running games have ranked...

Or how many All-Pro's the Giants have had...
Burberrymanning  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 5:55 pm : link
That list would be pretty lengthy since few outside of here would consider Eli even on the fringe of the top 10 all Time... and my suspicion is you’d disagree with more than a few names on any list just by virtue of him having two rings. Your screen name leads me to suspect you are higher on him than most are, which is fine. I just think it’s stupid to say the Giants have let Eli down when he has been a part of two Sb winning teams here.
RE: Lots of QB's were better who didn't win 2 SB's...?  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13698052 JCin332 said:
Quote:
So he doesn't get credit for those wins..?

Ya know its pretty hard to win those things...

And I stand by my comment...compared to the other elite QB's in his time period he has had by far the weakest supporting cast over the majority of his career...


No. I’m not saying he doesn’t get credit. I’m saying it’s stupid to credit him for team success when it’s good and absolve him when it’s bad. I’m also
Saying it’s stupid to say the Giants have let him down when they surrounded him with enough to win 2 SBs. He made out pretty well forcing his way here
RE: RE: Oh and by the way to be clear  
ajr2456 : 11/19/2017 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13698055 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 13698046 LatHarv83 said:


Quote:


You can’t on one hand credit Eli for being a two time Sb winning qb and then absolve him for being barely over .500 in his career. Both are team accomplishments, and he’s had a hand in both



Look at where his defenses and running games have ranked...

Or how many All-Pro's the Giants have had...


To be fair the only two games they won this year the defense has given up a total of 19 points
It gets weird sometimes with Eli here  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 6:01 pm : link
I swear there is a decent contingent who are bigger Eli fans than Giants fans. We haven’t had the best run the last few years but to say the Giants have let Eli Manning down is just stunning to me. People acting like he’s the Jordan of football and we underachieved only winning two championships with him or something
RE: Burberrymanning  
BurberryManning : 11/19/2017 6:06 pm : link
In comment 13698057 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
That list would be pretty lengthy since few outside of here would consider Eli even on the fringe of the top 10 all Time... and my suspicion is you’d disagree with more than a few names on any list just by virtue of him having two rings. Your screen name leads me to suspect you are higher on him than most are, which is fine. I just think it’s stupid to say the Giants have let Eli down when he has been a part of two Sb winning teams here.
You cites, “lots of QBs who havis been better than Eli throughout history,” and I’m wondering if “lots” constitutes one, two, ten, or twenty quarterbacks in your mind. Naturally, the word “lots” intimates numbers closer to the latter. I genuinely struggle to envision how you could present arguments in favor of “lots” of quarterbacks enjoying superior careers to that of Eli.
Burberry  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 6:13 pm : link
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.

Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
RE: It gets weird sometimes with Eli here  
BurberryManning : 11/19/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13698070 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
I swear there is a decent contingent who are bigger Eli fans than Giants fans. We haven’t had the best run the last few years but to say the Giants have let Eli Manning down is just stunning to me. People acting like he’s the Jordan of football and we underachieved only winning two championships with him or something
Well, you have a quarterback that has been the absolute epitome of class in an era of selfishness and crass. From on-field play to charity to media,, what have you, it’s incredibly difficult to find any fault with the way that Eli has handled his business. Then you have a franchise that has itself stumbled through controversy, employed players of questionable character, personnel of questionable merit, and is a foundational member of an ownership cartel that has faced broader challenges. Is it that difficult to understand why some might have a stronger allegiance to a man than an amorphous franchise/organization?

Do you think folks love Berkshire Hathaway or do they love Warren Buffet?
RE: Burberry  
BurberryManning : 11/19/2017 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13698087 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.

Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.
Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.
Burberry  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 6:20 pm : link
The Giants were a premiere franchise who were seen as being one of the best run in football even coming off a down 2003. Eli forced his way here to avoid less desirable situations for a reason. We were in the super bowl 4 years before he got here and werent too far removed in the grand scheme of things from winning it twice. He didn’t join the bengals or the browns or the charger franchise he wanted no part of. He joined a franchise with an incredible legacy and he leaves here having contributed to it. Bad run at the end? Sure. Take it in totality though? Playing hardball with San Diego worked out for him, don’t know how anyone can say otherwise

Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
RE: RE: Burberry  
ajr2456 : 11/19/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13698102 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 13698087 LatHarv83 said:


Quote:


I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.

Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.

Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.


How exactly has Indy built around Luck? The defense and offensive line have been brutal pretty much since he's gotten there
RE: RE: RE: Burberry  
BurberryManning : 11/19/2017 6:28 pm : link
In comment 13698110 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13698102 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


In comment 13698087 LatHarv83 said:


Quote:


I don’t keep a detailed list on hand but I feel comfortable stating the number is probably north of 10 or at least hovers in that territory. It gets dicey at a certain point because some are just going to look at rings and not be open to conceding more than a few names who were probably better but didn’t win twice (or even once). I certainly think it’s possible to be ringless and better than a qb with multiple rings, but whatever.

Eli has had a weird career. Very good career, but a weird career with two months that make ranking him incredibly complicated. I’m more a body of work guy. I’m not going to get into a qb by qb debate with you as it would be a waste of both of our times, neither mind is going to change. I just see it as silly attempting to depict Eli as having been let down by the franchise he forced his way to that helped surround him with enough to hoist the Lombardi trophy twice.

Fair enough response, as I agree that we’d most likely not change either of our minds. I don’t find it unfair to bemoan the franchise for putting Eli, or anyone else for that matter, in a position to more or less fail over the past half-decade. Sure, Eli probably banked $100mm so he’ll live but we all suffered through an inefficient usage of his talents. I also bemoan the Packers for the way in which they’ve built around Rodgers and Indy around Luck, etc. Again, the players really aren’t owed anything other than what their contract dictates but incompetent asset management (their talent being the asset) is unfortunate.



How exactly has Indy built around Luck? The defense and offensive line have been brutal pretty much since he's gotten there
That was sort of my point- the Colts have hung Luck out to dry and he deserves better, IMO
RE: Burberry  
BurberryManning : 11/19/2017 6:37 pm : link
In comment 13698103 LatHarv83 said:
Quote:
The Giants were a premiere franchise who were seen as being one of the best run in football even coming off a down 2003. Eli forced his way here to avoid less desirable situations for a reason. We were in the super bowl 4 years before he got here and werent too far removed in the grand scheme of things from winning it twice. He didn’t join the bengals or the browns or the charger franchise he wanted no part of. He joined a franchise with an incredible legacy and he leaves here having contributed to it. Bad run at the end? Sure. Take it in totality though? Playing hardball with San Diego worked out for him, don’t know how anyone can say otherwise

Eli seems like he is a great guy, very good qb, glad to have had him. Don’t feel the need to shit on the Giants to prop him up
Eh, I think that there is a lot of revisionist history here. The Giants had gotten blown away in a SB four years back and outside of that run hadn’t won a playoff game since 1993. Trey Junkin was fresh in our minds, not LT. Meanwhile, the Chargers were an absolute destitute franchise with a terribletrack record of supporting players, namely quarterbacks. Eli’s draft day power play was more about the Chargers and less about the Giants, IMO.
Burberry  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 6:45 pm : link
Well I’d agree that joining the Giants in 04 wasn’t exactly hopping on the train of a certain budding dynasty. But I do believe the legacy and long term track record of the Giants franchise wielded a lot of power in that spot. Some organizations are just more trustworthy “stocks” to buy than others. Id put our Giants on a very short list. I’d say Eli was rewarded for his decision. He’s pushing 15 years now as the starting QB here though, and unless you have a run like Walsh’s 49ers, Landry’s cowboys or belichicks pats things can go sideways over periods that long.
If you don't think  
old man : 11/19/2017 6:47 pm : link
the FO has failed to surrounded him with talent, you likely havent read your own threads and comments.
When he was given and OL '06-11, he was almost dearth of talented WR except Plax and '07 and '08; and while we have WR 'weapons' since OBJ, where is the OL? Or the LBs to stop opponents from moving the chains, or the D they had to buy to give him the ball more?
11 years of over 70 draft picks and you'd find it hard to come up with 22, likely even 15 good players, especially at their draft positions.
Huh?  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 6:54 pm : link
“When he was given and OL '06-11, he was almost dearth of talented WR except Plax and '07 and '08”

So pre injuries Cruz and Nicks werent one of the most dynamic duos in the league? Steve smith catching 100 plus balls? There was also a running game that for a good half decade was about as productive as any in the entire nfl. Also a defense that while inconsistent at times was generally awesome in his postseason career, with the exception of last years packer game... in the two Sb winning runs I don’t believe any team scored over 20 points against us on any of those 8 games, and we faced hall of fame qb after hall of fame qb. We held Tom Brady to 31 total points in two
Super Bowls

Cmon now. The Giants have had a shitty run of late but let’s stop with the revisionist stuff as if Eli has had to perform Herculean feats to gain the Giants respectability
Are you really a Giant fan?  
JCin332 : 11/19/2017 7:05 pm : link
Seriously why do some so called fans have to rip a guy who is one the greatest players in Giants history and also one of the greatest post season performers in NFL history?

The guy will be top 5 in most QB stats when he is done...

The best running game in the NFL for half a decade...are you on crack?

And yes the defenses stepped up in the 2 Championship post seasons but he was the best player in the playoffs both those years...

That performance in GB in 2007 may have been the best performance ever by a QB in playoff history...
RE: RE: RE: And he got robbed  
BlackLight : 11/19/2017 7:06 pm : link
In comment 13697879 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13697862 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:


Quote:


In comment 13697817 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


On the game winning touchdown. I’m pissed about that like no other.



Yeah, I still do not understand how that was not a touchdown. He caught the ball and was not touched after the catch and his roll into the end zone. and there was the 2 minute warning timeout for the officials to review that.




I agree. When Lewis actually had possession, the defender was NOT in contact.


Down by contact is not a reviewable play unless there's a fumble.
Are you really a giants fan?  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 7:07 pm : link
Or more of an eli fan? You are you just proving my point for me. All I said is it’s dumb to say the Giants have let him down. That constitutes ripping him?

Lol ok. He has been a terrific Giant. But I’m a Giant fan. Was before Eli got here, will be after he goes, won’t shit on my team just to prop him
Up
Thank goodness they won  
bigbluehoya : 11/19/2017 7:08 pm : link
It might have looked stupid to have a thread lauding the QB’s performance if the offense put up 12 points in a loss...
Oh and not to nitpick every wrong point  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 7:20 pm : link
But are you just willfully unaware or have a teeeoble memory when you think I’m on crack for saying the Giants had as potent a running game as any in the league for a good half decade or so. That’s not really up for debate. From Eli’s rookie season up to about 2010 the running game was largely phenomenal and quite brutally honestl what concerned defenses more about our attack during that period. Do you not remember Tiki rewriting record books or Earth Wind and Fire? Did I imagine this? Are you actually denying the run game was out of this world for the better part of that time?

Red Zone just awarded that Roger Louis  
bradshaw44 : 11/19/2017 7:26 pm : link
Catch the play of the day.
Lewis  
bradshaw44 : 11/19/2017 7:26 pm : link
.
I find people who get defensive  
BBelle21 : 11/19/2017 7:31 pm : link
about us fans who are huge fans of one of the greatest Giants in franchise history, to be odd. Yes, some of us absolutely love Eli Manning, one of the greatest Giants ever. Get over it.
I’m not defensive  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 7:35 pm : link
I’m sticking up for a franchise who some are depicting as bumbling idiots who did nothing other than get gifted Eli over the past two decades and largely waste him. From people who call themselves Giants fans and have the nerve to accuse me of not being one (at least JC did) for sticking up for them

I’m a big Eli fan myself. I’m a bigger giants fan. He’s pushing 15 years here it’s not all going to go smoothly
Franchise let him down?  
Modus Operandi : 11/19/2017 7:45 pm : link
The organization has done everything possible to provide him with weapons throughout his career. Plax, Nicks, Cruz, S. Smith, Shepard, OBJ, Engram. We also invested heavily into the OL. Worked out with guys like Snee and Mac.

On defense, he's had the likes of Strahan, Tuck, Umenyiora, K. Phillips, Webster, Rolle, etc. Eli pissed some of those seasons away by throwing 20+ INTs twice and being mediocre for a few others.

You can say the Giants haven't addressed the OL recently. Arguable, but okay. But to say he hasn't been given a supporting cast is simply false.
It can be argued  
Modus Operandi : 11/19/2017 7:51 pm : link
That despite the defense playing poorly for half the season in 2007, they don't win the SB without their Herculean effort in the playoffs. Shut down high powered offense after high powered offense. Specifically Tuck, who was beastly.

Defense wasn't nearly as good in 2011, but Nicks played like a man possessed.
07 defense was pretty damn excellent  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 8:09 pm : link
Points allowed was a little higher than it should have been due to offensive turnovers putting them in bad spots, they were very highly ranked in yards though and led in sacks. Then they were lights out in the playoffs as turnovers stopped happening.

11 defense was shit until the final 2 games of the season and playoffs. Eli carried that team to 7-7 when they probably should have been like 3-11. He was terrific all year. But starting with the jets game on Christmas Eve and on through the playoffs the defense and running game was terrific. Eli stayed playing well and even raised his game, but 11 was a whole team effort from the jets game on. That team was clicking on all cylinders
Oh stop it.  
BBelle21 : 11/19/2017 8:28 pm : link
You say you’re a big Eli fan but an even bigger Giants fan. Well then it shouldn’t bother you so much when fans celebrate Eli, one of the greatest Giants ever. It’s laughable when someone says they’re a big Giants fan then tries to diminish what Eli means to this franchise.
Eli could have won 2 or 3 more SB's if  
xman : 11/19/2017 8:28 pm : link
he had better talent. Could any other QB have done that? Yes. Whats so surprising about that?
I’m not bothered by celebrating Eli  
LatHarv83 : 11/19/2017 8:36 pm : link
I’m bothered by crapping on my team to do it. It’s not only not necessary, it’s purely false. Celebrate him all you want, but try to paint him as someone who has covered up for an otherwise clown show outfit and I’m going to call out the stupidity of it if I feel compelled to in that moment

Elii gets defended because he  
BBelle21 : 11/19/2017 8:40 pm : link
Warrants that loyalty. And his prime years have absolutely been wasted on the likes of Larry Donnell. Excuse me if I could care less if a Donnell gets dumped on while Eki gets defended and celebrated.
And Donnell  
BBelle21 : 11/19/2017 8:41 pm : link
Is only an example here. I know you never mentioned him specifically.
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